change my name to: I'mACuck

[IndyHubby]

the beginning of the end

Reread my earlier post. She's developing a relationship that doesn't include you. As time goes on she'll go from sharing with you to withholding info and on to resenting your intrusion.

If this progression continues, you'll be paying child support.

If she plays alone, odds are, she will ultimately find your replacement.

 

[Puller]

Sadly I have to agree with Indy on this one.

This scenario is very familiar and well-worn.

Your wife is already beginning to show sign of deceit in pursuit of her pleasures, and you will become more marginalized and frustrated, which will annoy her even more as you probe deeper.

You are not the type of cuck for it and would be much better off in one where everything is out in the open and the lover is a friend that visits for pleasure and you share.

 

[casino]

I'm not sure I agree. Sounds to me like she is most definitely enjoying and exploring her new-found independence, while trying to keep some balance so as not to cause a negative impact on her marriage.

Where I think this is a bit scarey is determining where Brad's head is at. Is he a fuck-buddy? Or is he courting her? To me, this is the missing link that could cause that relationship to go in a few different directions.

I'm not expert (for sure)... but something to consider...

 

[SoonToBe]

Hey all,

So - I read the last 3 posts and I'll be honest and say that I do have some concerns - mainly because it's now Thursday morning and she hasn't mentioned anything about Tuesday - but that's all.

With the kids going back to school and her about to get her period, it's going to be a challenge for me to get another romp with her. She just left for work and her diaphragm is still in the bathroom drawer so Brad's not getting anything either. I figure I'll try to bring up Tuesday and Brad somehow when we're in bed - hopefully tonight - and see both if it gets her turned on or aroused and to see what she says.

Indy/Puller - I think I don't share your concerns just yet as I just don't see the signs, or at least not yet. She's usually really horny just after her period when her hormones are way up (or whatever causes it) so if anything, next week would be when I'd think I'll know what's going on in her head.

In the meanwhile - it is such a wild feeling to see her doing whatever, in the shower, getting changed, even just sitting having a cup of coffee - it just is so crazy knowing she's been fucking another guy. I can't explain it other than it has really made me realize just how great she is. And I feel the same back from her - she's actually a bit warmer of a person in the past few weeks, especially with me, or so it seems.

 

[cuckhuby]

Suggestion for cucks

As a cuck of 14 yrs with a very active hot wife I would suggest you meet with Brad and thank him for fucking your wife, tell him how excited you get and how much better sex has been since he has been fucking her and encourage him to discuss the pleasure he gets out of it, so that he knows you are both sharing her. Then suggest to him that next time he sees her, he should invite one of his buddies to fuck her also, the more he shares her with other men, the less possibility there is of him getting affectionate with her, she is just a fuck toy to him. And the more lovers she has, the more solid your position is and your sex experience with her will become even more intense. And she will love the extra attention she gets from many men.

 

[Custer Laststand]

You might try to appreciate (more) the maxim, "anything's possible."

I'mACuck,

I suggest attaching more weight to the cautions of Indy Hubby, Puller and Casino, which you're dismissing. Your relationship with your wife, which you implicitly assume is rock-solid in perpetuity, is not (necessarily). You are treading on thin ice.

Regarding Cuckhuby's post:

As a cuck of 14 yrs with a very active hot wife I would suggest you meet with Brad and thank him for fucking your wife, tell him how excited you get and how much better sex has been since he has been fucking her and encourage him to discuss the pleasure he gets out of it, so that he knows you are both sharing her. Then suggest to him that next time he sees her, he should invite one of his buddies to fuck her also, the more he shares her with other men, the less possibility there is of him getting affectionate with her, she is just a fuck toy to him. And the more lovers she has, the more solid your position is and your sex experience with her will become even more intense. And she will love the extra attention she gets from many men.

This is good advice. The idea of talking with your wife's lover is clearly difficult for you (I would certainly find that to be the case), but I suggest "biting the bullet" and doing it.

—Custer

 

[SoonToBe]

Cuckhuby - I agree with the whole idea of me meeting Brad and making him aware that I know what's going on between them.

I don't know that I'd necessarily thank him - reallly he should be thanking me for encouraging Sue to fuck him in the first place. But I have been thinking that there would be potentially less danger if he knew that I knew.

But the rest of your suggestion is way out of line. I think you may want to read my earlier posts to understand how much effort and convincing it took to just have Sue feel okay about fucking another guy. But now you expect her to just fuck one of Brads friends? Just like that? Knowing Sue as well as I do and from how she's described things so far - if Brad suggested that, it wouldn't surprise me if she just slapped him and walked out on him. I honestly don't think she's looking to be with a bunch of guys.

But still - I do think that - period or not - that this weekend we're going to need to discuss all of this - including the whole meeting Brad thing and also the whole thing about Brad's wife and family.

 

[casino]

Brad's head is the missing part of the equation....

Soon,

I think the risk to you in this whole thing relates more to where Brad's head is at versus Sue's. While I have little doubt that Sue has some feelings for Brad (who knows what they mihjt be), he might be falling in love with Sue. If this is the case, and you inject yourself without Sue's consent, Brad could cut and run. While that might solve the "falling in love" issue, it will create a "look what you fucked up for me" issue with Sue.

I could be dead wrong about Brad's feelings, but Sue's reluctance to discuss his wife and family situation sends up a red flag to me.

Think about what you're trying to accomplish here before acting.

As an aside, I wish my Sue and I were in a similar place. I envy where you guys are at, I just caution you that you don't know Brad; what he's thinking or where he thinks the relationship might be going; and what Sue's reaction might be if the proverbial applecart gets disrupted by you.

Just something to think about....

 

[cuckhuby]

To Soon to Be

Before you dismiss the idea of Brad sharing your wife with one of his buddies, why don't you ask your wife what she thinks about it? You might be very surprised at what she says.

 

[bobcatdave]

while your entire episode has been quite titillating for all of us "voyeurs", you are living it for real! You alone have everything to lose! I would tread lightly and protect what is yours unless your are willing to lose it. Talk to her about all this. Talk to her before you talk to Brad. If she is indeed, open and willing, then the conversation should go well. She won't even mind you talking to Brad. If she shuts you down and does not want to delve into the details of your concerns, then she may already be too far involved emotionally with Brad. Your fate may have been decided. I hope not...

 

[Custer Laststand]

It's time for a conversation with Brad....

I'mACuck,

Regarding Casino's comments:

While I have little doubt that Sue has some feelings for Brad (who knows what they might be)....

You can assume your wife is in love with Brad. The trite conventional wisdom, "men fuck, women fall in love" seems partially true in her case. When she tells you she tells Brad "she loves him" (as described in one of your posts), that isn't a cynical lie. Almost certainly, she is telling him the truth.

That, however, doesn't mean your wife does not love you. Your threads strongly imply that she does. In fact, her love for you appears to have increased because you have given her the freedom, and encouraged her, to expand her sexual and romantic horizons. In other words, it is possible for a woman (your wife, in this case) to love more than one man, and she does.

.... he [Brad] might be falling in love with Sue.

You can assume Brad is in love with your wife. This is why I said (above): " 'men fuck, women fall in love' seems partially true in her [your wife's] case." A more realistic version of this conventional wisdom would take ambiguity into account. E.g.: "Men who fuck, like the women they're fucking, often fall in love." Given that Brad and Sue plot to meet each other, think about each other often (lasciviously), and tell each other about their innermost longings (very likely) when they're in bed together, this can be interpreted as meaning Brad, as well as your wife, is in love.

That, however, does not mean Brad does not love his wife. He may very well continue to be in love with her as well, and have no intention of ending his marriage. The fact he does not know *you* are encouraging Sue to fuck *him*, while you (and Sue, you hope) have no intention of ending your marriage because of him, places him, however, in a position of ambiguity. It is enabling him to think (probably) that ending his marriage, in order to establish a close long-term relationship with your wife — possibly involving marrying her, after she leaves you — is a possibility. He may, in fact, view it as the most desirable outcome of his affair with your wife, depending on the nature of his relationship with his wife.

Regarding Casino's additional comment:

.... If this is the case, and you inject yourself without Sue's consent, Brad could cut and run.

I really doubt it. More likely — much more likely, in my opinion — he would appreciate your clarifying the situation for him. It would mean he would no longer have to agonize over whether he should bring up with your wife the possibility of her leaving you (which would be awkward, at best), and he could stop agonizing over the prospect of having to tell his wife he is going to leave her (which would result in extreme bad feelings, alienation of his children, loss of wealth, having to pay child support, etc). He could, in other words, view his affair with your wife, in a much more straightforward way, as SEXUAL PLEASURE.

As for the possibility of Brad "cutting and running," why should he? He has a *very* good thing going, which — if you talk with him — will be even better.

It's time to talk with him.

Incidentally, a book that describes the experiences of women having one-man affairs like your wife is:

Heyn, Dalma. 1992. The Erotic Silence of the American Wife. Turtle Bay Books (Random House, New York), 304 pp.

Heyn presents the affairs of the women she interviewed and followed over time as having positive, generally-beneficial effects on their lives. You could probably find a "good-used" copy via (e.g.) Amazon.com. You and your wife might be interested in reading it.

—Custer

 

[casino]

Gotta tell ya... I disagree

Soon,

I believe if you connect with Brad, without Sue's knowledge (and unlike Custer, I'm going to presume here it might not go well - hey, I could be wrong), it could be disasterous to your relationship with Sue. I'm sure as hell no expert, but I negotiate for a living and to me, it would appear that not involving Sue prior to a discussion with Brad, could create a dynamic that would would not put you in much of a power position, but rather a bargaining position.

That being said, if Sue does not want you to meet/talk with Brad, you might have a different problem my friend....

 

[bobcatdave]

I'm with Casino...Sue may get really pissed if you go to Brad without her knowing. She may perceive that you are trying to fuck up her shite, if you know what I mean. She can twist your intentions into the "no trust" connotation (which it may well be...not so much you don't trust her, but don't trust the situation) and it could turn ugly in a hurry. As my wife would say..."it's called communication, stupid"...she is the one you married, she is your confidant, talk to her like you talk to this board. Only then can true feelings come out and, hopefully, you get the end result you are hoping for.

 

[marys_pet]

Soon,

Please understand that the advice you're being offered here is well intentioned, whether you agree with it (or choose to take it) or not. As long as Sue is only fucking one guy outside your marriage, she's having a relationship with Brad — an alternate relationship to the one she has with you, that may grow over time to rival your marriage. By encouraging her to fuck multiple men, it reinforces the idea that what she does with others is just sex and that they're just fuck buddies — and that what she does with them is separate and distinct from her relationship with you.

I do think that meeting Brad would be a good idea, although I would not do it behind Sue's back for the reasons you (and others) mention.

Cuckhuby - I agree with the whole idea of me meeting Brad and making him aware that I know what's going on between them.

I don't know that I'd necessarily thank him - reallly he should be thanking me for encouraging Sue to fuck him in the first place. But I have been thinking that there would be potentially less danger if he knew that I knew.

But the rest of your suggestion is way out of line. I think you may want to read my earlier posts to understand how much effort and convincing it took to just have Sue feel okay about fucking another guy. But now you expect her to just fuck one of Brads friends? Just like that? Knowing Sue as well as I do and from how she's described things so far - if Brad suggested that, it wouldn't surprise me if she just slapped him and walked out on him. I honestly don't think she's looking to be with a bunch of guys.

But still - I do think that - period or not - that this weekend we're going to need to discuss all of this - including the whole meeting Brad thing and also the whole thing about Brad's wife and family.

 

[SoonToBe]

Hi all.

Thank you all for the heartfelt feedback. I do understand what you are all saying and I guess, based on what everyone is saying, maybe I do have cause to be concerned.

It's almost 10pm and she thinks I'm finishing up paying some bills right now before we adjourn to watch something on Tivo - anything other than the RNC.

I know that you all are saying I have reason to worry but I would counter all that by simply saying that aside of their "date" last week, they've only fucked 4 other times. I know you are all saying I should worry but I don't see the danger signs, at least not just yet.

However, I do plan on telling Sue that Brad and I need to meet and need to be on the same page regarding what's going on. No, I won't go behind her back to approach him - what's the point in that - I want her to know that I want him to know that I know what's going on. I don't think it'll be all that awkward though - I think I've met him already at some holiday party related to Sue's work. Plus, how bad can he be if Sue's okay with him.

I know that everyone is concerned - and as I said, I do share some of it, especially after reading post after post saying the same things. But I also know that Sue is not the kind of person that will want to be sleeping with lots of different guys. That's just not her.

And, of course, underlying all of this is the simple fact that I am totally turned on by what she's doing and in some ways, I want to give her the freedom to experience what she wants to. But, I guess some level of control may be needed.

Things are a bit hectic - our 13 year old daughter is heavy into the hormones bursting onto the scene and - between her and my wife, well, my 16 year old son and I just sometimes sit back and watch the sparks fly between them!!! Quite funny at times - but it pisses both of them off when we laugh at them.

I don't think I want to push talking with her tonight - but tomorrow night, over a bottle of wine - I'm sure we'll get to it all.

 

[grantisaac]

Like i posted a while back, if it is just sex between your wife and Brad? should not worry her for you to meet him.You say that her diafram is still at home so they are not doing anything.How do you know?

Cheers

Grant

 

[Custer Laststand]

I'mACuck,

Casino makes a good point.

However, I do plan on telling Sue that Brad and I need to meet and need to be on the same page regarding what's going on. No, I won't go behind her back to approach him - what's the point in that - I want her to know that I want him to know that I know what's going on.

I think this is probably the best strategy. If you approach it in this way, it will tend to "force communication" in the sense that Sue will no longer be able to hide behind her reticence to tell Brad she and you are in this together. I suspect she will either agree with the idea of you talking with him — how bad can that be, as you point out — or propose some alternative; say, both of you talking with him in a joint conversation that will be acceptable to her, as well as you.

—Custer

 

[IndyHubby]

The Bigger Issue

Actually, the point I really intended to make in the first post is bigger and longer term than what you are experiencing at the moment. I'm 55 years old and have been actively involved in this lifestyle as a cuckold husband since 1972. Over the years, I've seen more failed than successful marriages.

Although there are exceptions to every rule or general pattern, the large majority of failures occur when one of the spouses begin "playing" alone. In your case, your wife's alone time with Brad is a fertile breeding-ground for more romance than most marriages can tolerate.

One of the replies you got alluded to to emotional bonds women develop. As my wife has frequently said, "I need an emotional connection for the sex to be good". She has a lover she has been seeing since May of 1999. She freely and openly says that she loves him. It works for us because we have managed how that developed. It's very rare that she sees him without me present.

Is is more passionate for them if they're alone? Absolutely! But it's pretty difficult to "fall in love" with hubby there listening to everything and seeing everything. She much prefers sex with him to sex with me. She never let's me forget it either. Having said that she's in love with me and nurtures our marriage.

Whenever she meets him, I know where and when as soon as it's scheduled. They both expect me to be there and I have veto power if I can't. They tease me if when I'm not. Most often it happens in our house, in our bed. Afterward, she and I lie together and cuddle were she just got fucked. She makes sure I'm in the wet spot.

He a big guy who is very well endowed. So after he leaves, she and I fuck but she's pretty much giving me a pity fuck because she's either sore and wants me to cum fast or she's so wet, loose and spent that she gets nothing out of it and makes me come fast.

When she and I are alone and have sex, we talk and fantacise about our experiences. It add fuel to what we do when we're alone. If you want to keep your marriage, you need to ensure that what you do is done to enhance what you have together. Make sure that sharing with you what she does with him does not become an inconvenience for her. If she's not open and eager to share everything, you are losing or have lost your place as her first most best and your marriage is at risk.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, we talked more

And, while some of the answers were what I hoped to hear, others weren't.

Over 2 nights we talked about a lot of things. One major area was where her heart and her head it at regarding Brad. Another was my meeting him, and the last was regarding his wife and family.

Last first. She didn't even remember the part of the conversation where I asked about his wife and family so I reminded her and then she remembered. She said she didn't reply to me because it wasn't an issue. The week they were away, the week Sue and Brad went on their "date", was, according to Sue, just that. There was nothing more to it. She told me that Brad has told her on many occasions that his wife and his family would always come before Sue. And, she looked at me and said that the same went for her - that we, me and our kids, would always come first.

Then she reminded me how it was me who pursued this with her - it was me who pushed her to have sex with other guys - it was me who packed her "care package" into her suitcase for her trip to Boston and how it was me who pushed her to let herself go. She then told me how she felt it was a bit inappropriate for me to be asking her to put the reins on now - and she emphasized, "especially since there's nothing more to it".

I asked what Brad was telling his wife about their meetings and Sue looked at me and asked what I was talking about. And, at that point I just told her that I'd been keeping track of her diaphragm in the mornings. She seemed a bit miffed about that but recalled that I had mentioned it and she just said to me that aside of their date and the 2 times they'd gone out after drinks after work - that they'd only had sex 2 other times. She looked a bit embarassed when she told me that "they were just quickies" and that she felt so energized and invigorated that she felt like she was back in high-school again messing around in the back seat of her van or in a quiet park. But she told me point blank that there was nothing more to it and that I was getting upset and concerned for nothing.

When it came to the question of my meeting Brad - and of him knowing that I know what's going on between them. She was very calm about it and said that the 3 of us can certainly meet. But that she'd rather be in the bathroom or somewhere else when I told Brad that I knew. She just felt she'd feel awkward about having deceived Brad when she's been telling him that she's sneaking around on me when she's really not. She felt that part of the meeting would be very awkward for her. I told her that I really wanted to talk to Brad and understand his intentions and desires - but she kept on insisting that there aren't any on his part. Then she said "he just likes fucking me, that's really all it is".

I had to think for a minute on that because - well, if I had some hot little woman at work who was happy for me to give her a quickie - I don't know that I'd really be wanting more than that. But still - I told her that since this was going on for so long now, that I felt it'd be better if we could bring everything out in the open - so they wouldn't have to feel like they're sneaking around so much and so I could be more comfortable with how they are together and what they're feeling.

And that brought us to the most difficult part of the conversation. She did say that she was developing feelings for Brad. But she quickly cautioned me that she's not falling in love with him and certainly has no thoughts or even fleeting ideas of leaving me and running off with him. As she put it "why would I want that?". She said she's already got the best of both worlds - me as her loving husband and Brad as her lover. "Why would I want to upset any of that?".

I told her that I just felt she was getting too close to him emotionally and physically. She didn't see it until I brought up the whole diaphragm thing when they were in the hotel. I told her that it'd taken years before she'd even masturbate in front of me. That it was years more before she was comfortable with the whole birth-control thing and letting me watch or be a part of her putting in her diaphragm. I basically told her that with Brad, she's eliminated years of time and I felt that sharing all that with him so fast gave me a lot of reasons for concern. I just told her that her sitting there on the bed putting in her diaphragm while he watched was just too personal and too close for me. And while maybe that specific act wasn't something so terrible - the fact that it happened so quickly and that she felt so at ease doing it with him there made me concerned.

She then told me her side. That she felt a close connection to Brad and she looked at me and just said "What do you think - he's seen me naked and has had sex with me multiple times - it just felt okay to me to share that part of our night together". But she quickly added that it was just part of that whole fairy-tale night and she said that she felt very close and comfortable with him.

I asked her if she loved him and she said, "in a way, yes". And she proceeded to tell me some of the same stuff that others have written here - how her feeling good about him really enhanced their sex together. She asked me "how else do you think I can just have a quickie with him" - "I don't just spread my legs for just anyone". She told me again how, yes, during the height of passion - she does tell him she loves him. But she turned to me and just said "it's not the same kind of love I feel with you". And she continued that it's not something she feels I or we need to worry about.

I asked her if she was interested in any other guys - I told her that I felt it might ease the attraction she has with Brad and would possibly make me feel better about things. She said again that she can't (and she used that word - cannot) just fuck anyone. And she didn't feel comfortable with herself if she suddenly became promiscuous. Plus, she felt safe with Brad in that this is new to him too - and she felt he was safe health-wise too and that let her be more at ease with him.

She asked me that if it weren't for my concerns about her emotions and our family, whether I would have any issues about her and Brad continuing to have some fun. I told her that I felt that if their fun continued that, while things are okay now, that they could spiral out of control quickly if either of them began to feel more about each other or want more from each other. She said I was being silly and that, again, I had nothing to worry about and that she was just enjoying herself.

By the way - she did tell me about her time with Brad last Tuesday while we were having sex Friday night. She brought it up as part of foreplay and wow - just the way she said it - whispering in my ear "Brad and I were together on Tuesday you know..." - damn she knew right away that it turned me on because she felt my cock harden up like crazy. I asked her where they'd gone and she said that they'd taken a ride in her van to a nearby park where she'd moved to the back-seat and let Brad go down on her first before they fucked in the back-seat! My god, it was like the on-switch for me as my cock start throbbing in her as she told me that.

It was after that fuck that I brought up the diaphragm thing and she said that also on Tuesday, in the back of the van, she'd let him watch her put it in before they fucked. She told me she'd even let him put the applicator full of contraceptive jelly into her after she'd put the diaphragm in. She told me that she just felt so at ease with him doing that - that when they had sex after that, how they felt very close. But she swears that it's just for the moment and it is not something that I or we need to be concerned about.

I have to say that outside their afternoon/evening trysts, I just don't see any signs of anything to be concerned with. She is still just as sexual and just as loving with me as ever - only that her sex drive seems to be perpetually kicked up a notch. She looked at me after we'd talked a while and just said "are you really complaining about all of this?". I really had to think about that.

Anyway - there's more to say and write. Maybe i'll have time later. Right now, I think I'm comfortable and Sue says she'll arrange a meeting for the 3 of us for sometime this week.

I didn't ask yet if she would feel comfortable letting me somehow watch them but she does know that it is somethign I'd want to do at some point.

More later.

 

[Custer Laststand]

Sounds like progress.... (and a comment on women's sense of smell)

I'mACuck,

When it came to the question of my meeting Brad — and of him knowing I know what's going on between them — she was very calm about it and said the 3 of us can certainly meet.

Good.

But she'd rather be in the bathroom or somewhere else when I told Brad I knew. She just felt she'd feel awkward about having deceived Brad when she's been telling him she's sneaking around on me when she really isn't.

Whatever works....

.... I asked her where they'd gone and she said they'd taken a ride in her van to a nearby park where she'd moved to the back-seat and let Brad go down on her first before they fucked in the back-seat!

This is the reason it's been occurring to me (for quite a while, actually) Brad's wife is probably aware he's having an affair. Women, on average, have a significantly better sense of smell than men. Thus, if Brad and Sue have been fucking in her van and Brad has been going home afterwards without taking a shower (or otherwise cleaning up in some way), there's a good chance his wife smells Sue on him when he arrives — particularly if he walks up, gives her a hug and kisses her. If Sue seems ******* of this, it may mean she does not happen to have an excellent sense of smell herself. (That difference between women and men is, of course, probabilistic. My wife, for example, smells many things I can't smell.) If Sue's sense of smell seems no better than, say, yours, that does not imply Brad's wife does not have an excellent sense of smell.

I have to say that outside their afternoon/evening trysts, I just don't see any signs of anything to be concerned with. She [Sue] is still just as sexual and just as loving with me as ever - only that her sex drive seems to be perpetually kicked up a notch.

Excellent. That, of course, is the optimum outcome.

.... Sue says she'll arrange a meeting for the 3 of us for sometime this week.

Sounds like progress. I think you're moving forward now. Good work.

—Custer