ytrewq said:Julie, is it too simple to say that what it is you do not understand is the cuckold's desire to be denied?
I don't really see that the motivation driving almost all men involved in this phenomenon has anything at all to do with being "denied". In fact, since most have to apply relentless pressure just to get their wives to go through with the activity these men desire, if anything they are being fulfilled even at the expense of the wive's wishes. It seems more about the fulfillment of a fantasy for the men than anything else in almost all cases.
What is it about sperm competition that you do not believe? I believe chemicals in our bodies manifest as emotions, thus explaining any propensities towards what our culture defines as weirdness
Sorry, this doesn't make any sense either. "Sperm wars" sounds like another one of those baseless theories thought up by someone with a lot of time on their hands and not much to do except day dream. IF chemicals in our bodies manifest as emotions, why the vast difference in emotions between individuals within the same culture, nevermind in different cultures? The model explaining human behavior and tastes holding that we're like products off a factory's assembly line is defunct. There's too much evidence to the contrary. Look at this statement of your's. In one culture there should be a common standard of emotional terrain within the individuals. There should be no "weirdness" because the chemicals causing emotions should pretty much be uniform. Everyone should have the same basic tastes and drives with little to no deviation. They all have the same diet; same lifestyle; same outlooks. Where can the "weirdness" come from then? Instead - in reality - you have vast and even bizarre differences between individuals within the same culture. One thinks something is normal, another thinks its totally weird. Tastes and drives stem from the individual's focus on life, not on chemicals. Chemical input can depress mood or enhance mood - temporarily. But it can't cause specific tastes and drives toward lifestyle twists.
I can only say that when I read the research, sperm wars made a lot of sense to me. I had a lot of inside stuff I attributed to incidents in my childhood that I thought made me f***ed up. (Granted, there are healthy ways to express emotions and destructive ways).
Yes, I agree that past incidents can have an impact, but only so far. We all have conscious control over our responses and how we proceed through life.....if we want to use that control. Otherwise we get into the blame game and shrug off responsibility to self. If we can be responsible in one area of life - like in making a living - we can be the same in others, and we can purposefully choose how we're going to proceed through life even if it means denying intense, but temporary tastes and desires.
I would like to address the topic of whether or not the wife of a cuckold is an exception as compared to the rest of the female population. An average wife, being persuaded, sometimes subtly over years in a lifelong marriage, to watch porn (or let the husband watch porn), giving (and even just receiving) oral sex, cruising dating sites to peruse any potential lovers (getting to know if they like them rather than hiring a stripper they do not know), experimentation and even having an outright affair while married seems just as unexceptional or normal to me as an unmarried woman doing these same things. It seems that's what college is for (wish someone told me).
Yes, it would seem unexceptional but in the case of most people involved in this lifestyle, the wife is constantly and relentlessly prodded into participation. This isn't something that takes years or decades, the husband usually gets this bug and then can't leave the subject alone. He keeps on pushing his wife toward it even if she openly states she's not interested in doing anything. In other words, this is something that flares up and keeps burning very intensely within the marriage. At last, it burns itself out as a desire if it is actually carried through into physical activity. If it isn't and it remains "inside the head" as a fantasy, it probably can remain smoldering in the husband's consciousness indefinitely - even if its off and on sometimes.
Let me take this tack. I used to believe a woman really wanted one nice guy (I think a lot of boys start out this way). I had to learn backwards.
What anyone "wants" changes constantly in today's world. The consciousness of people today shifts and moves from one focus to the next very fast. What they may want today can be totally different from what they want next week. They can even change back to an old "want" after leaving it for some time.
Now I believe women enjoy having multiple partners (at least when they cannot get all the qualities they desire in one partner).
Sometimes, in some cases at some points in their lives, but there is no standard that can be applied to individuals today. People change.
Maybe not all at once, but over a lifetime, women like to compare men. Because I know that a huge fear in a woman's life is divorce, I think all women would be having sex during their ovulation with any one of the many, many attractive men they cross paths with if not for this overriding fear. It's just not worth it. Remove this fear, however, and...
I doubt that divorce is very much of a fear for anyone anymore. Just look at the statistics. You are making far too many generalizations and speaking in such absolutes and with confining certainty that you're getting way of the mark of this topic. What you're really describing here is your own views, not reality in the world at large. Forget about "women" as a designation holdling all female individuals. There are as many different views and desires and perspectives and drives among women as there are individual women AND each individual woman is a changing entity throughout life, just as all individual men are. If there's a desire to understand a definite phenomenon that manifests in some people, I don't think that you can't take a whitewash brush and paint everyone with convenient interpretations that explain their behavior. First of all, this cuckold/hotwife phenomenon is not something that crops up in other cultures as much as in our's. I'd say its because its just another aspect of trying to seek things to rid ourselves of being bored with day to day married life. [/B]
A woman likes to be admired for her beauty by all men even after she is married.
Oh? Are you sure?? Some women resent the attention and don't consider it flattering at all!
In principle, is this so different from her wanting them to want to boink her?
No, it isn't so different, and that's why a lot of women don't appreciate such attention after getting married.
And is that so different from her wanting to boink them?
Since you aren't a woman, it might be wise not to assume that you know very much about what they "want". Also, desires of different kinds can differ according to age groups, race, ethnic background, even location inside the country.
Why would your mother enjoy sex with multiple partners, whatever qualities she enjoyed in them?
Because like anything else, once this became a kind of routine and she was used to doing it, she began to pick up positives from it and keep herself amused with those positives as the situation went along. However, she and my father eventually tired of the whole escapade and just dropped it, and then lived in a regular manner for a long period of time until my dad passed away. So it was something that was expressed, experienced, and then it faded out in terms of interest and excitement until there was no desire left anymore to do it at all.
Why is that when I opened my eyes, I see the mfm trio in all aspects of our culture: poetry, music, movies, old movies!- and even my favorite movie as a kid- Why did Princess Leia go for hunky Han when Luke Skywalker pined for her?
Because that's what the writers of the script had her doing! And again, fantasy is fantasy, and a desire for portraying something different, naughty, unusual, or bizarre to "sell" entertainment is a lot different from people everywhere actually doing anything in reality. If it weren't different, there'd be a far, far greater number of couples involved in this lifestyle than there actually are.
OK, so the point I'm trying to make is, what's the norm and what would it be if we weren't fearful of the consequences?
There is no "norm" because "we" aren't robots off an assembly line. We're individuals who constantly change as we grow willfully in life or as life's circumstances force us to grow if we just coast along through it.
