SERIOUS Discussion about Cuckolding and Hotwifing

[ytrewq]

thank you Julie

I will say one thing about past messages we have exchanged. I allowed myself to become emotionally charged and I apologize for the lack of constructive or supportive responses I have made. As you can see, your thread is most welcome because folks here are mostly guys and they are more than willing to help a woman with her need for some correspondence.

Which sort of takes me back to a cuckold's motivations.

You see, at some point a man makes the choice to serve a woman's needs. He may often find his jealousy over an infidelity only gets him thrown out of the game. He learns how to turn, or twist his jealousy into a humiliation that he can enjoy and still be a team player. I think this can result in him pushing his wife to do something he now wants to repeat or continue from his past (maybe from a previous relationship).

An infidelity or jealous motive is not always the case, I know. Sometimes, if this initial desire to please a woman comes from a 'harmless' wrestling match where the girl exhibited her dominance over him, a cosmic observer might see this boy growing into a man (never being cheated on or otherwise humiliated), and now oddly enough, just being a bully to his wife in order to get her to 'beat him up' again.

On the black and white issue, and this is really only my opinion, I think the difference in skin color lends to the perceived reality that a woman's black lover, who is even more different in appearance other than his size, is therefore giving her something (don't ask me what) that her white husband could not possibly give her. This again adds to a reality that everything is all beyond the husband's control and he is seeing his wife for the first time in a new way that
he cannot influence- he must only do her will.

But does this come from the man's thrill of competition, going back to the sperm wars? Does it matter? Would we change it if we could??

 

[ytrewq]

response to your last post

I did not mean to suggest that a husband would force his wife (or even lovingly encourage her) to have sex with another man because he felt sorry for her. That may be the case for a slim few but...I agree with you that it is a thrill for men who are committed to this lifestyle.

As for why the lifestyle is not stream lined more (if one can think of cuckolding as not being a form of swinging which is already streamlined), I can think of two reasons: Wives are reluctant and other men lose respect for a cuckold.

This is very interesting discussing this with a woman rather than a man.

 

[ytrewq]

edited from previous

Sorry, I don't mean to clutter this thread, but had edited my previous statement and got booted off before I could save.


I did not mean to suggest that a husband would force his wife (or even lovingly encourage her) to have sex with another man because he felt sorry for her. That may be the case for a slim few but...I agree with you that it is a thrill for men who are committed to this lifestyle.

As for why the lifestyle is not stream lined more (if one can think of cuckolding as not being a form of swinging which is already streamlined), I can think of two reasons: Wives are reluctant and other men lose respect for a cuckold.

Not sure I agree with you that their are more forms of play now than there were in past times. At least as far back as Sodom and Gomorrah. I think there are also very conservative areas of the world (not only eastern but such as most of France) that still uphold a traditional marriage.

This is very interesting discussing this with a woman. I remember a woman on another site said that she thought this lifestyle just a fetish, while she was a polyamorist, and had had two husbands. Her statement makes me think more about what it is a man wants and what it is a woman wants and how different those two things can be. I certainly have no issues with labels and definitions in these love things, especially with someone who is more involved in them than I am. This may surprise you, Julie, but I do believe women are smarter than men when it comes to emotional relevances and relationships. I wish they would talk more.

 

[JulieIsMe]

Which sort of takes me back to a cuckold's motivations.

You see, at some point a man makes the choice to serve a woman's needs. He may often find his jealousy over an infidelity only gets him thrown out of the game. He learns how to turn, or twist his jealousy into a humiliation that he can enjoy and still be a team player. I think this can result in him pushing his wife to do something he now wants to repeat or continue from his past (maybe from a previous relationship).

Considering my own parents and what was explained to me about their activities within this lifestyle by my mother, it seems it depends on the man because according to my mother, my dad was really, really arroused and turned-on by the idea that he could see her being serviced by another man - especially a larger, stronger, and more stamina-intense Black man. I'm not sure this has anything to do with jealousy. To me its more like orchestrating a live porn event starring one's wife and being a spectator at it, and then getting even more thrills from her reactions to it being related afterward.

An infidelity or jealous motive is not always the case, I know. Sometimes, if this initial desire to please a woman comes from a 'harmless' wrestling match where the girl exhibited her dominance over him, a cosmic observer might see this boy growing into a man (never being cheated on or otherwise humiliated), and now oddly enough, just being a bully to his wife in order to get her to 'beat him up' again.

Well, you know, a desire to be dominated can have a lot of reasons connected to it depending again on the individual. But I agree that once experienced in childhood the pattern might be set for perspectives and desires held in adulthood.

On the black and white issue, and this is really only my opinion, I think the difference in skin color lends to the perceived reality that a woman's black lover, who is even more different in appearance other than his size, is therefore giving her something (don't ask me what) that her white husband could not possibly give her. This again adds to a reality that everything is all beyond the husband's control and he is seeing his wife for the first time in a new way that he cannot influence- he must only do her will.

True, and I think the Black / White mix just accentuates the "different" or unusual elements in the activity - it provides a visual contrast that is very erotic to the observing husband.

But does this come from the man's thrill of competition, going back to the sperm wars? Does it matter? Would we change it if we could??

I'm really not sure about this "sperm wars" concept at all. To me its just connected to being bored and wanting some sort of ultra-stimulating sex play to break up the monotony of day-to-day predictability in marriages.

 

[ytrewq]

this is a woman who is open with talking to people about her lifestyle and may be able to provide a perspective you do not already have....

http://mrsemmakelly.blogspot.com

 

[JulieIsMe]

As for why the lifestyle is not stream lined more (if one can think of cuckolding as not being a form of swinging which is already streamlined), I can think of two reasons: Wives are reluctant and other men lose respect for a cuckold.

By "streamlined" I was referring to the way couples tend to proceed in their activities. For example; instead of hunting around for a play partner and then trying to convince the prospect to participate, and then worrying about STD's, emotional flare-up's, and a whole lot of other factors, these couples could just as easily open their Yellow Pages and hire a male ****** of the type they found most attractive. The wife could be serviced by a willing and capable partner with no strings attached. Once finished, he leaves and the couple are free from any emotional entanglements. Male strippers could also be employed. For a 'few more dollars under the table" I'd bet a male stripper would do the same servicing for the wife as well.
This way of setting things up seems much safer and efficient and fulfilling than the usual way of the couple trying to find and then convince a prospect to particpate.

This is very interesting discussing this with a woman rather than a man.

Yes, well since I come from a family in which this actually took place for a period of time during my teens, I suppose that my personal curiosity might strike others as being interesting alright.

 

[JulieIsMe]

this is a woman who is open with talking to people about her lifestyle and may be able to provide a perspective you do not already have....

http://mrsemmakelly.blogspot.com

Thanks for the link. I'll check into it.

 

[ytrewq]

Not to harp on the jealousy thing, but in reference to hiring a male ******, I think that would reduce the emotional connection for some- like the men who say they are more jealous of their wives kissing their lovers than having sex with them. If a man was paid, then it would be an act of porn and, for some, I think they want to key into the real possibility that their wives and these men are experiencing something more deep.


I completely agree with you that 99 % of this is the man's fantasy at least from the start (though I have been in touch with one woman that convinced me she enjoyed sharing her bed with two men (one of them her husband), it may have been her husband's idea originally). Yeah, and I think there probably have been more than a few masseuses, if not actual gigolos hired out to perform and fulfill this fantasy.

 

[ytrewq]

If you're still scratching your head over this, after your personal sexual experiences, after talking to some men and women, I have a suggestion: Macnfries made a good point that you are struggling with the why and I think it is because you are comparing responses to your parents and what you might imagine your father's frame of mind was. Unfortunately you cannot ask him (my sincere condolences) but I think from talking to your mom you have an idea of the kind of man he was.

I certainly do not have any idea of the kind of man he was or your relationship with him and I would only be guessing, but maybe if you shared with us what your perceptions are of him, we could give you better answers. That is to say, perhaps we will understand something he did or something he or your mother said to you that you have not been able to explain to yourself.

This may be too intimate or touchy/feely and I for one completely understand if you feel this would take this thread in the wrong direction.

 

[fantasycuck]

Sperm competition

Julie:

I agree with the idea of writing about your relationship with your father. This will give men here a better chance to give you more information.

I would also research the issue of sperm competition. Not only in the competition inside the genital track of a woman, but how it affects the male libido.

We are placed on this Earth to leave or genes behind.
The moment we are denied pussy we wanted it more than ever. This desire is nothing more than evolution and it makes men go and fuck their women over and over again and to insert as much sperm as possible in there.

Cucks have discovered that the inability to access the pussy of their wives makes them very horny. These men like to feel horny and they enjoy the arousal. If you read the posts you can see that they are all "about not been able to have access to the pussy of the wife".


Only the lover has the privilege to fuck the wife's pussy.
If the cuck is allowed to fuck the wife he must wear a condom.
If the cuck wants sex it must be masturbation or giving oral sex to the wife.
The cucks goes on a chastity cage.
The wife stops fucking the cuck for long periods.

Anything that is associated with lack of access to the pussy causes the cuck to be horny.

In other words the cuck is simply exploiting an evolutionary mechanism that was originally put in place to entice the male to put more sperm into his promiscuos mate. When the cuck denies himself that activity he becomes horny 24/7.

 

[Eno]

Of course, there always must be exceptions. I can believe that there are women out there who naturally desire lots of different partners for sex and who enjoy marriage, but still need the "freedom" you mention.

Are they really exceptions, I'm not so sure they are...
Even so, don't you think it would be a good idea if these wives had some kind of pre-existent agreement with their husbands - in the absence of which extramarital sex, if discovered is nothing else but downright cheating, causing severe psychological wounds and ruining trust between spouses?

This is where what I would call basic cuckolding comes in: a lifestyle in which as long as a wife is perfectly honest about it, her husband will accept her sexual freedom while remaining monogamous to her.

The gender differences in support of this differentiation are many. To mention just one, think of the ease, the spontaneity and the harmlessness typical of female infidelity, as compared to the time and effort most husbands must spend to achieve similar goals and which more often than not, cause them to neglect and to seriously jeopardize their primary relationships.

But many more excellent reasons in favor of cuckolding as a lifestyle fitting today's realities will be found in the article by Ms. Gower, The Science of Cuckoldry Cuckold Couple.

 

[JulieIsMe]

My experiences with strippers (both male & female) is, you can request what you want, and they'll tell you what you want to hear, and normally agree to send what you want sent, but in the end, you "get what you get. LOL Mac

Hi again! Well, I'm not familiar with hiring strippers or escorts, or what the experience is like in reality, I just was pondering the actual procedure used by couples to find play partners and it seemed very time consuming and uncertain. In fact, it seemed to me that the whole process of actually connecting with a play partner may take so much time that the couple might lose interest and give up on the whole idea long before they'd come across the desired type of play partner they wanted.
So I thought, well if there was access to people who would perform for a price and save the couple time, why wouldn't they go that route?
In my own view, if I was married and I knew my husband really was absorbed and stimulated by thiss lifestyle, I would probably consider complying but I just couldn't see myself out there trying to connect with strangers for the purpose of having sex. I'd agree to a higher-end male ******, I suppose. But the idea of attempting to find and convince a stranger to have sex with me would be a little too much for me to handle.

 

[JulieIsMe]

If you're still scratching your head over this, after your personal sexual experiences, after talking to some men and women, I have a suggestion: Macnfries made a good point that you are struggling with the why and I think it is because you are comparing responses to your parents and what you might imagine your father's frame of mind was. Unfortunately you cannot ask him (my sincere condolences) but I think from talking to your mom you have an idea of the kind of man he was.

I certainly do not have any idea of the kind of man he was or your relationship with him and I would only be guessing, but maybe if you shared with us what your perceptions are of him, we could give you better answers. That is to say, perhaps we will understand something he did or something he or your mother said to you that you have not been able to explain to yourself.

This may be too intimate or touchy/feely and I for one completely understand if you feel this would take this thread in the wrong direction.

Well, here's the thing; I'm actually scratching my head over how men get turned on over their wives being serviced by other men. I'm beginning to understand it in a certain sense, and I can certainly accept the fantasy aspect of it. And considering that there are all sorts of other fetishes and fantasies around that are just as unusual, I can see this one as being no worse or different or kinky.
In terms of my dad; I personally think that he was just like a lot of the guys on this forum. He just had a real fantasy thing for having my mom serviced by certain types of men while he watched. And my mother told me that he also loved it when she would offer comparisons and "ratings" of the play partners in relation to my dad. Whenever she'd matter-of-factly state that he was no match for one of her play partners in terms of size / strength / stamina, my dad would almost come undone with excitement, if you know what I mean.
And my mom fit the mold of a hotwife very well too. She had to be convinced to enter the lifestyle, but after she did she enjoyed it and it opened up an entirely new view of life for her. In her own mind it wasn't skin color contrasts or endowment or stamina that she enjoyed so much, although these played a part in the excitement because they were different from what my dad was able to offer her. No, what got to her was the differences in the subtle things that she experienced with various play partners. How they touched. How they kissed. How forceful or gentle they were, etc. While she "rated" them in terms of size and strength for my dad's benefit, she did her own kind of rating privately to decide which partners were the most satisfying and best for long-term fun.

 

[JulieIsMe]

Are they really exceptions, I'm not so sure they are...

Well, if they aren't exceptions wouldn't there be a lot more affairs and swinging in marriages, and less complaints leading to divorce if so many women actually desired a lot of sex with a lot of different men while being married?

Even so, don't you think it would be a good idea if these wives had some kind of pre-existent agreement with their husbands - in the absence of which extramarital sex, if discovered is nothing else but downright cheating, causing severe psychological wounds and ruining trust between spouses?

Yes, I do think so. If people marry they should be entirely open with each other - transparent. Otherwise, what's the point in being married?


This is where what I would call basic cuckolding comes in: a lifestyle in which as long as a wife is perfectly honest about it, her husband will accept her sexual freedom while remaining monogamous to her.

But again, you have to remember that is seems to be a fact that most hotwives got their start due to the pressure applied by their husbands. The wives didn't suggest it or desire it on their own, they were cajoled into participating. Yes, they may have enjoyed it once they were into it, but it is usually the husband pushing her into "sexual freedom" and not the other way around.

The gender differences in support of this differentiation are many. To mention just one, think of the ease, the spontaneity and the harmlessness typical of female infidelity, as compared to the time and effort most husbands must spend to achieve similar goals and which more often than not, cause them to neglect and to seriously jeopardize their primary relationships.

But many more excellent reasons in favor of cuckolding as a lifestyle fitting today's realities will be found in the article by Ms. Gower, The Science of Cuckoldry Cuckold Couple.[/QUOTE]

 

[Eno]

Well, if they aren't exceptions wouldn't there be a lot more affairs and swinging in marriages, and less complaints leading to divorce if so many women actually desired a lot of sex with a lot of different men while being married?

I am pretty sure that there ARE a lot of affairs, but not necessarily swinging. Studies indicate that increasing numbers of working wives (particularly in urban environments) have affairs - no wonder really since it's so easy for them: when they feel like it, all they need to do is not to say "no", that's really all it takes. And as I explained, that is why if the woman has a satisfying relationship and a loving husband waiting for her at home, such trysts are pretty irrelevant and have no consequence for the stability of her marriage.
Swinging: though this may be okay for a number of women, many others feel that extramarital sex is a strictly personal matter, i.o.w. they do not want to be used as a bargaining chip for their husband to get laid.

But again, you have to remember that is seems to be a fact that most hotwives got their start due to the pressure applied by their husbands. The wives didn't suggest it or desire it on their own, they were cajoled into participating. Yes, they may have enjoyed it once they were into it, but it is usually the husband pushing her into "sexual freedom" and not the other way around.

Well my personal opinion is that applying pressure to wives in order for them to have extramarital sex, is just as wrong as forbidding them to have extramarital sex.

 

[slaved]

The gender differences in support of this differentiation are many. To mention just one, think of the ease, the spontaneity and the harmlessness typical of female infidelity, as compared to the time and effort most husbands must spend to achieve similar goals and which more often than not, cause them to neglect and to seriously jeopardize their primary relationships.

Nah, I can't buy that one. Its not as hard for a guy to find someone to cheat with as you seem to think, Eno. Granted. It is easier for a woman to find someone that wants to fuck her. But it isn't exactly difficult for a man either.

 

[Eno]

Nah, I can't buy that one. Its not as hard for a guy to find someone to cheat with as you seem to think, Eno. Granted. It is easier for a woman to find someone that wants to fuck her. But it isn't exactly difficult for a man either.

Cheating versus fucking, that's an interesting distinction you make (I always felt that one didn't go without the other).
For some men who have the knack, finding a one night stand may be simple, I don't know. One thing I do know for sure is that it has always been much more difficult for me than for my wife. Her problem was rather the other way round : having to decline offers most of the time; something I, and probably many other men never had to do ).

This as a matter of fact is one of the reasons why in my eyes, female sexual freedom is such a good thing. Simple math shows that with time, it may become just as easy for a guy as it is today for a woman.

 

[sptbj2]

As I read through this thread, I noticed some references to BDSM, submissiveness, degradation and humiliation. I have been naturally submissive ever since I started puberty. Enough years have gone by for me to realize that this is just the way I am. It wasn't caused by any outside experiences or influences.

One of the points that I wanted to make is that while I am very submissive, my submissiveness is based on wanting to pleasure my wife. I am not into humiliation or degradation at all. I don't have any psychological need to feel less than or better than anyone else.That being said, I am open to many things that some would consider humiliating or degrading. Sometimes, It's just your way of seeing the world.

My interest in cuckolding, or this lifestyle, really stepped up when I joined this forum on June 21, 2006. I had been reading as much femdom information as I could find and just sort of stumbled on to the whole hotwife/cuckolding phenomenon. I came here to learn more and found that I fit in, at least to some extent.

Even before we were married (almost 30 years now), I told my wife that she was free to have affairs, take on lovers, or have sex with others. I asked her not to cheat on me, there was no need for that and I promised her I would do the same. We came close to swinging a few times, but we, to this day, have never had sex with anyone outside of our marriage.

Recently, I have been kicking up my submissiveness because I'm at the age where I don't know how much longer I have to explore my true submissive nature. I suppose it's my midlife crisis. Still, for some reason my wife is reluctant to dominate me. She is certainly capable, and understands the benefits of such a lifestyle, but something keeps holding her back.

As for our recent discussions, she just beams when I tell her how much that I love and trust her, and that I want her to have the freedom to take lovers other than me. So far, she has not acted on my consent, but I can see that she is interested in the whole idea.

As for pushing her into anything, I would never do that. It is contrary to my submissive nature, and it wouldn't work anyway. I get off on her pleasure, not on some fantasy. If she's not interested, it would never be fun for me and would be extremely difficult for our relationship. You don't stay married for this long with that kind of attitude.

 

[slaved]

Cheating versus fucking, that's an interesting distinction you make (I always felt that one didn't go without the other).
For some men who have the knack, finding a one night stand may be simple, I don't know. One thing I do know for sure is that it has always been much more difficult for me than for my wife. Her problem was rather the other way round : having to decline offers most of the time; something I, and probably many other men never had to do ).

This as a matter of fact is one of the reasons why in my eyes, female sexual freedom is such a good thing. Simple math shows that with time, it may become just as easy for a guy as it is today for a woman.

I wasn't making a distinction between fucking and cheating. But I do see a difference. Cheating, to me, would include anything where the heart and/or sex is involved that you do with another person without the knowledge and consent of your spouse. It doesn't have to be fucking but thats certainly the first thing that comes to mind.

And I agree. It is easier for a woman. A woman that puts out the signals can pick up effortlessly. They even get attention when its the last thing they want. And men are trained to be the initiators so all a woman, that has anything attractive about her at all, has to do is wait. I'm just saying that, for a man, it really isn't hard to find someone either and with little to no effort. It doesn't have to be a one night stand either. It could be an affair with a coworker. It could be the checkout girl at the local grocery. It could be the teller at his bank. It could be the girl working the fitting room at Gap. If a woman decides she's attracted to you its pretty much downhill from there.

 

[ytrewq]

Julie, is it too simple to say that what it is you do not understand is the cuckold's desire to be denied? What is it about sperm competition that you do not believe? I believe chemicals in our bodies manifest as emotions, thus explaining any propensities towards what our culture defines as weirdness. I can only say that when I read the research, sperm wars made a lot of sense to me. I had a lot of inside stuff I attributed to incidents in my childhood that I thought made me f***ed up. (Granted, there are healthy ways to express emotions and destructive ways).

I would like to address the topic of whether or not the wife of a cuckold is an exception as compared to the rest of the female population. An average wife, being persuaded, sometimes subtly over years in a lifelong marriage, to watch porn (or let the husband watch porn), giving (and even just receiving) oral sex, cruising dating sites to peruse any potential lovers (getting to know if they like them rather than hiring a stripper they do not know), experimentation and even having an outright affair while married seems just as unexceptional or normal to me as an unmarried woman doing these same things. It seems that's what college is for (wish someone told me).

Let me take this tack. I used to believe a woman really wanted one nice guy (I think a lot of boys start out this way). I had to learn backwards. Now I believe women enjoy having multiple partners (at least when they cannot get all the qualities they desire in one partner). Maybe not all at once, but over a lifetime, women like to compare men. Because I know that a huge fear in a woman's life is divorce, I think all women would be having sex during their ovulation with any one of the many, many attractive men they cross paths with if not for this overriding fear. It's just not worth it. Remove this fear, however, and...

A woman likes to be admired for her beauty by all men even after she is married. In principle, is this so different from her wanting them to want to boink her? And is that so different from her wanting to boink them? Why would your mother enjoy sex with multiple partners, whatever qualities she enjoyed in them? Why is that when I opened my eyes, I see the mfm trio in all aspects of our culture: poetry, music, movies, old movies!- and even my favorite movie as a kid- Why did Princess Leia go for hunky Han when Luke Skywalker pined for her?

OK, so the point I'm trying to make is, what's the norm and what would it be if we weren't fearful of the consequences?