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Unfortunately, yesterday was a busy day at work and there was just no time to post an update - hopefully will have time later tonight.
In short - Paul arrived on Saturday evening and Sue left the 2 of us alone for a while. The conversation was awkward and strange at first but it gradually turned a bit more comfortable. In short, Paul continued to say he is having fun with Sue and appreciated the time he has with her and I told him at some point that I liked him having sex with her. I am sure Sue was within earshot but she stayed out of sight while we talked. One thing he did tell me was that he said Sue has told him everything we're doing and he said - in summarizing it - he said that I shouldn't feel weird about anything and he joked/shared that he already knew I liked to clean up Sue after she's been with him. I guess I hemmed and hawed but he eventually said something to the essence "it's not like you're sucking my cock" and later added that "licking it from Sue's pussy is different than that". There was more to the conversation but that was the basis - he later also said that I should join them and I said that Sue had said the same thing.
In short, I stayed there with them and even participated a bit - Sue sucked and stroked my cock while she was busy with Paul. I didn't really move much as their time got closer - and in reality, by then they'd pretty much forgotten I was there - she had long let go of my cock. But yes, I can report that after watching them go at it and cum together that when he rolled off of her - when they were busy kissing immediately afterwards, Sue motioned for me that if I wanted to do it, now was the time. So, as they kissed - and I felt that Paul wasn't staring at me - I leaned in and began to lick at her pussy. At first there wasn't much to taste but as I licked, more began to flow as she got into it and within just a few moments I felt her hand on the back of my head - guiding me to what she wanted.
I tried not to think about Paul as I focused and indeed, he seemed to be take my apprehension into account (from what we talked about) as every time I glanced upward, Paul was engrossed with Sue and wasn't looking down at me. Sue did glance downward at times and smile. When I brought her to orgasm she removed her hand from my head and I backed away. I am sure I had a bit of a glazed-donut look, but again, Paul was the gentleman and gave her a last kiss and then went into our bathroom off our bedroom for a moment. I moved up and kissed Sue and she smiled broadly when she tasted how I tasted. I told her I loved her and she said the same to me and we hugged. When I heard the toilet flush in the bathroom I gave her a last peck on the lips and I said I was going to leave her alone if she wanted. The look on her face gave me her answer.
We knew that he wasn't spending the night and maybe an hour or so later, after hearing more from the bedroom, things again got quiet and after hearing the water running and such in the bathroom, Paul came downstairs first and we talked for a moment and it seemed weird but he thanked me again and I did the same to him. Sue came down in just a bathrobe a few minutes later and commented on how nice it was that we were getting along better. They shared a short moment together when she walked him downstairs to the front-door and I left them alone.
Unfortunately, she made me wait till Sunday evening before she would let me have a turn with her....
In short - Paul arrived on Saturday evening and Sue left the 2 of us alone for a while. The conversation was awkward and strange at first but it gradually turned a bit more comfortable. In short, Paul continued to say he is having fun with Sue and appreciated the time he has with her and I told him at some point that I liked him having sex with her. I am sure Sue was within earshot but she stayed out of sight while we talked. One thing he did tell me was that he said Sue has told him everything we're doing and he said - in summarizing it - he said that I shouldn't feel weird about anything and he joked/shared that he already knew I liked to clean up Sue after she's been with him. I guess I hemmed and hawed but he eventually said something to the essence "it's not like you're sucking my cock" and later added that "licking it from Sue's pussy is different than that". There was more to the conversation but that was the basis - he later also said that I should join them and I said that Sue had said the same thing.
In short, I stayed there with them and even participated a bit - Sue sucked and stroked my cock while she was busy with Paul. I didn't really move much as their time got closer - and in reality, by then they'd pretty much forgotten I was there - she had long let go of my cock. But yes, I can report that after watching them go at it and cum together that when he rolled off of her - when they were busy kissing immediately afterwards, Sue motioned for me that if I wanted to do it, now was the time. So, as they kissed - and I felt that Paul wasn't staring at me - I leaned in and began to lick at her pussy. At first there wasn't much to taste but as I licked, more began to flow as she got into it and within just a few moments I felt her hand on the back of my head - guiding me to what she wanted.
I tried not to think about Paul as I focused and indeed, he seemed to be take my apprehension into account (from what we talked about) as every time I glanced upward, Paul was engrossed with Sue and wasn't looking down at me. Sue did glance downward at times and smile. When I brought her to orgasm she removed her hand from my head and I backed away. I am sure I had a bit of a glazed-donut look, but again, Paul was the gentleman and gave her a last kiss and then went into our bathroom off our bedroom for a moment. I moved up and kissed Sue and she smiled broadly when she tasted how I tasted. I told her I loved her and she said the same to me and we hugged. When I heard the toilet flush in the bathroom I gave her a last peck on the lips and I said I was going to leave her alone if she wanted. The look on her face gave me her answer.
We knew that he wasn't spending the night and maybe an hour or so later, after hearing more from the bedroom, things again got quiet and after hearing the water running and such in the bathroom, Paul came downstairs first and we talked for a moment and it seemed weird but he thanked me again and I did the same to him. Sue came down in just a bathrobe a few minutes later and commented on how nice it was that we were getting along better. They shared a short moment together when she walked him downstairs to the front-door and I left them alone.
Unfortunately, she made me wait till Sunday evening before she would let me have a turn with her....
Love it stb! Maybe it evolves a bit more now so that you get to be a part of their sex more often? Sounds like cuckold paradise to me. Did you masturbate that evening or completely wait? Not that it matters but if they get together more often now, you might be much more on edge if you waited to be with them?
So - with the kids gone, she is spending a little more time with him this afternoon/evening and foregoing seeing him tomorrow - in exchange for seeing him at least once (or twice) over the holiday weekend. Unsure about an overnight over the weekend with the kids both having cars and the holiday weekend, them deciding to come home is a possibility.
I have to say that the conversation with Paul still seems a little surreal. It could have turned raunchy or any other direction, but he really seemed to almost respect what we are doing which is something Sue has said before. It was also very obvious to me that beyond enjoying the sex with her, that he seemed detached in other ways and even commented/complimented on Sue being very unique in enjoying things as they are. I told him that this was something that took a long time to get to and he said that he knew that and that he'd talked with her about it.
While she says he knows that I am using condoms with her and that he even knows that it's something I am wanting, it's not something that came up and indeed, I guess I should credit Sue with that in that she listened to what I'd said about not wanting to feel suddenly overwhelmed with Paul's knowledge, or rather his display of it. As I said, true to what he said and what she said, neither of them seemed to find anything at all off about me going down on her like I did. I don't know if it'll be something we do all the time as I know she intentionally looked to include me.
I will say that it brings back some feelings that I hadn't really remembered from the past until now. Over time I've licked quite a bit of cum from her pussy from a number of guys, but somehow it feels a little different this time. I'm sure it's in my head and maybe after it happens a few more times I'll feel less self-conscious about it, as I can remember these feelings before - I can't quite explain how it feels to be with a guy who's semen you've licked out of your wife's pussy. I still don't have a good read on how I feel around him and it's something I want Sue to tell me more about.
Far2 - yeah, maybe it becomes something that becomes more regular. As she (and he) said, that if I do it where it feels right as part of the whole thing between them, then she feels it's just a part of it with him and that it only adds to it - in her words. So maybe. I didn't masturbate that night, I knew he wasn't spending the night and as I said, I hoped that she would have wanted a little more with me, especially with how she looked (and flashed me) in that robe she had on as she walked Paul out. But when she came back up she teased me a little and said that she'd really had "enough" and that she wanted to know if I would wait till Sunday. I hoped it would have been Sunday morning but instead her sister and brother-in-law came over so I wound up waiting till later at night. I know - she asked me but really I knew what she wanted and it was pretty obvious she was going to want to wait, I mean I did hear them going at it again while I was downstairs and from the little flash she gave me in the living room and the more full view of her in the bedroom, I could see she had been quite active after I'd left.
In the little conversation we did have about "going further" when we're all together, she told me that I should take it as slowly as I want to - which meant that if I wasn't comfortable using a condom with Paul there, that I shouldn't until I am. But she again told me that he knows about it.
Paul seems like an okay guy, I can see why Sue feels the way she does when she's with him, I can feel that he is very aware of her needs and that he really looks to fulfill them which I have to say is something that is beautiful to see. It's incredible to see them kissing and his hands knowing just where and what she likes and even hearing her gasp at times when I see his fingers in or on her pussy. When he did ask me about how I felt about everything I told him something that I remembered telling Sue that she seemed to sort of understand. I told him that in a way, seeing and knowing she's with him and that I can't or don't get to have her as much makes me feel like she is sort of a Penthouse model of sorts who I feel lust for and am so aroused and attracted to but at the same time, I don't get to have her. He smiled at how I said that and he said that he'd never thought of it that way. But he really seemed to understand when we talked about things in terms of the amount of time that we've been together, right about 30 years now and this is where I got the feeling he respected us in how he said that it was good that we could explore things that turned us on even if they're a little different.
Oh, I also told him the saying about regret that we'd heard so long ago. That when virtually every old person was asked - they all said the much more regretted not trying something they'd been curious about far more than they regretted actually trying something and deciding it wasn't for them. He laughed at that when I told him that was one of the things I'd told Sue when we first started talking about her and other guys. But that was as close to talking about sex with her explicitly as we got.
I'm sure I missed something in the conversations but I think I remembered the highlights.
I have to say that the conversation with Paul still seems a little surreal. It could have turned raunchy or any other direction, but he really seemed to almost respect what we are doing which is something Sue has said before. It was also very obvious to me that beyond enjoying the sex with her, that he seemed detached in other ways and even commented/complimented on Sue being very unique in enjoying things as they are. I told him that this was something that took a long time to get to and he said that he knew that and that he'd talked with her about it.
While she says he knows that I am using condoms with her and that he even knows that it's something I am wanting, it's not something that came up and indeed, I guess I should credit Sue with that in that she listened to what I'd said about not wanting to feel suddenly overwhelmed with Paul's knowledge, or rather his display of it. As I said, true to what he said and what she said, neither of them seemed to find anything at all off about me going down on her like I did. I don't know if it'll be something we do all the time as I know she intentionally looked to include me.
I will say that it brings back some feelings that I hadn't really remembered from the past until now. Over time I've licked quite a bit of cum from her pussy from a number of guys, but somehow it feels a little different this time. I'm sure it's in my head and maybe after it happens a few more times I'll feel less self-conscious about it, as I can remember these feelings before - I can't quite explain how it feels to be with a guy who's semen you've licked out of your wife's pussy. I still don't have a good read on how I feel around him and it's something I want Sue to tell me more about.
Far2 - yeah, maybe it becomes something that becomes more regular. As she (and he) said, that if I do it where it feels right as part of the whole thing between them, then she feels it's just a part of it with him and that it only adds to it - in her words. So maybe. I didn't masturbate that night, I knew he wasn't spending the night and as I said, I hoped that she would have wanted a little more with me, especially with how she looked (and flashed me) in that robe she had on as she walked Paul out. But when she came back up she teased me a little and said that she'd really had "enough" and that she wanted to know if I would wait till Sunday. I hoped it would have been Sunday morning but instead her sister and brother-in-law came over so I wound up waiting till later at night. I know - she asked me but really I knew what she wanted and it was pretty obvious she was going to want to wait, I mean I did hear them going at it again while I was downstairs and from the little flash she gave me in the living room and the more full view of her in the bedroom, I could see she had been quite active after I'd left.
In the little conversation we did have about "going further" when we're all together, she told me that I should take it as slowly as I want to - which meant that if I wasn't comfortable using a condom with Paul there, that I shouldn't until I am. But she again told me that he knows about it.
Paul seems like an okay guy, I can see why Sue feels the way she does when she's with him, I can feel that he is very aware of her needs and that he really looks to fulfill them which I have to say is something that is beautiful to see. It's incredible to see them kissing and his hands knowing just where and what she likes and even hearing her gasp at times when I see his fingers in or on her pussy. When he did ask me about how I felt about everything I told him something that I remembered telling Sue that she seemed to sort of understand. I told him that in a way, seeing and knowing she's with him and that I can't or don't get to have her as much makes me feel like she is sort of a Penthouse model of sorts who I feel lust for and am so aroused and attracted to but at the same time, I don't get to have her. He smiled at how I said that and he said that he'd never thought of it that way. But he really seemed to understand when we talked about things in terms of the amount of time that we've been together, right about 30 years now and this is where I got the feeling he respected us in how he said that it was good that we could explore things that turned us on even if they're a little different.
Oh, I also told him the saying about regret that we'd heard so long ago. That when virtually every old person was asked - they all said the much more regretted not trying something they'd been curious about far more than they regretted actually trying something and deciding it wasn't for them. He laughed at that when I told him that was one of the things I'd told Sue when we first started talking about her and other guys. But that was as close to talking about sex with her explicitly as we got.
I'm sure I missed something in the conversations but I think I remembered the highlights.
STB,
Thanks for the updates. I'm glad things are going well and the empty nest offers a great opportunities for exploration. It is great that Sue seems to have found that great all out affair without the apparent risk of falling madly in love and losing sight of your marriage. She truly is a great wife.
Enjoy the creampies and don't feel embarrassed or ashamed about doing it. Remember, you are enjoying the essence of Sue's sexuality. Paul's cum just happens to be part of it. If I was Paul, I would be happy to be part of your's and Sue's sexuality.
Thanks for the updates. I'm glad things are going well and the empty nest offers a great opportunities for exploration. It is great that Sue seems to have found that great all out affair without the apparent risk of falling madly in love and losing sight of your marriage. She truly is a great wife.
Enjoy the creampies and don't feel embarrassed or ashamed about doing it. Remember, you are enjoying the essence of Sue's sexuality. Paul's cum just happens to be part of it. If I was Paul, I would be happy to be part of your's and Sue's sexuality.
I wish I had more time today but can share that last night we resumed our Wednesday ritual!!!! I was obviously horny waiting for her and she was in a very teasing mood when she came home - I'm guessing knowing the kids wouldn't be there let her relax a bit. It must have been close to 9pm when she came home.
It's hard to express how I feel seeing her and knowing what she's been doing and to know that it makes me feel good inside. We went upstairs after she'd told me a little about their evening - what they did for dinner (pizza) - what they talked about (anything/everything) - and then when I followed her upstairs and watched her get changed, she told me more.
With them not seeing each other now till over the weekend sometime, she told me that they'd been at it for hours and nonchalantly mentioned that he'd cum twice while she said she couldn't even count how many times she came. She came and stood next to me with just a t-shirt and her panties on which had a noticeable wet-spot in them and the smiled at my hard-cock. A moment later she said "you know what we haven't done in a while?" and I knew what she meant when she smiled and slid off her panties and said "take him out" (meaning my cock) and then she said I should stroke it while she rubbed her hands all over herself, playfully pulling the t-shirt up and showing her breasts to the next second her fingers spreading her pussy lips and flashing me a view of her wetness.
She moved onto the bed and let me watch as she moved around so I could better see her - not so much 69 but she was definitely turned to that her head was facing more of my cock and I could see more of her pussy. My cock was hard already when she started to talk to me. She told me how nice it was with Paul and how good the sex was. When I looked towards her pussy she had her fingers again playing with the outer labia and spreading the wetness that was seeping from between them. "He fucked me really good baby" was one thing she said several times. At other times when she saw my gaze toward her pussy she'd ask "You like seeing that don't you?" knowing I could see how wet and now open she was.
I could probably go on and on in sharing more she said and more that I grunted in reply - she seemed to enjoy teasing me and ran through all of the range of what she's said before including "it's only Pauls cum in me baby...." And needless to say, I replied in kind. But what I can say is that in a way - I think it felt better than I'd remembered to be sharing that with her again. I know it turned me on a lot more and that I think I felt more relaxed about it all too. She told me several times that I will have "a turn" with her over the weekend but she didn't say whether it'd be with Paul when he's here or afterwards like last weekend.
Needless to say - when I let loose last night she squealed herself as I started to cum. I think sometimes I used to feel some reluctance on Wednesdays with maybe my hoping to have had sex with her, but not last night. Of course I'm sure this is all in my head but lying there stroking away next to her last night felt great. She told me some details about her and Paul - how his cock felt in her and how his hands felt holding her as she came. Maybe it was in my head but it seemed like even she was talking more openly and I told her I loved hearing it as I moaned away and I could hear her following along.
I'm sure she orgasmed when I did - I felt the bed shudder and heard her take several sharp breaths - and hearing/feeling that was awesome to me and I let it go - I held off as much as I could until one final stroke and I exploded with a huge grunt. I heard her moan softly as I kept stroking and then felt her hand on mine for the last few. It felt so wonderful when she moved my hand away and she reached down to the base of my cock and drew out the last few dribbles of cum. And as I lay there I knew what was coming.
She leaned over and told me how sexy it was watching me cum and as she played with my cum she sounded all warm and loving telling me "oooh baby, there's so much of it....". and i don't think I really need to go into details of how we shared her cleaning me up. So, while I'm not terribly horny today, I'm quite sure that by the weekend I'll be more than ready for her.
For tegelad - true chastity play hasn't ever interested either Sue or I. She still feels that if I want to masturbate that it should be my own decision but that she wants to be in control of what we do together and she'll likely be the first to say that if my masturbation makes it so that I am not ready for her when she may want sex with me that it's my loss, not hers! And yes, we are using condoms together, but there too, she's in control of how many of those we get to use together.
Gotta run
It's hard to express how I feel seeing her and knowing what she's been doing and to know that it makes me feel good inside. We went upstairs after she'd told me a little about their evening - what they did for dinner (pizza) - what they talked about (anything/everything) - and then when I followed her upstairs and watched her get changed, she told me more.
With them not seeing each other now till over the weekend sometime, she told me that they'd been at it for hours and nonchalantly mentioned that he'd cum twice while she said she couldn't even count how many times she came. She came and stood next to me with just a t-shirt and her panties on which had a noticeable wet-spot in them and the smiled at my hard-cock. A moment later she said "you know what we haven't done in a while?" and I knew what she meant when she smiled and slid off her panties and said "take him out" (meaning my cock) and then she said I should stroke it while she rubbed her hands all over herself, playfully pulling the t-shirt up and showing her breasts to the next second her fingers spreading her pussy lips and flashing me a view of her wetness.
She moved onto the bed and let me watch as she moved around so I could better see her - not so much 69 but she was definitely turned to that her head was facing more of my cock and I could see more of her pussy. My cock was hard already when she started to talk to me. She told me how nice it was with Paul and how good the sex was. When I looked towards her pussy she had her fingers again playing with the outer labia and spreading the wetness that was seeping from between them. "He fucked me really good baby" was one thing she said several times. At other times when she saw my gaze toward her pussy she'd ask "You like seeing that don't you?" knowing I could see how wet and now open she was.
I could probably go on and on in sharing more she said and more that I grunted in reply - she seemed to enjoy teasing me and ran through all of the range of what she's said before including "it's only Pauls cum in me baby...." And needless to say, I replied in kind. But what I can say is that in a way - I think it felt better than I'd remembered to be sharing that with her again. I know it turned me on a lot more and that I think I felt more relaxed about it all too. She told me several times that I will have "a turn" with her over the weekend but she didn't say whether it'd be with Paul when he's here or afterwards like last weekend.
Needless to say - when I let loose last night she squealed herself as I started to cum. I think sometimes I used to feel some reluctance on Wednesdays with maybe my hoping to have had sex with her, but not last night. Of course I'm sure this is all in my head but lying there stroking away next to her last night felt great. She told me some details about her and Paul - how his cock felt in her and how his hands felt holding her as she came. Maybe it was in my head but it seemed like even she was talking more openly and I told her I loved hearing it as I moaned away and I could hear her following along.
I'm sure she orgasmed when I did - I felt the bed shudder and heard her take several sharp breaths - and hearing/feeling that was awesome to me and I let it go - I held off as much as I could until one final stroke and I exploded with a huge grunt. I heard her moan softly as I kept stroking and then felt her hand on mine for the last few. It felt so wonderful when she moved my hand away and she reached down to the base of my cock and drew out the last few dribbles of cum. And as I lay there I knew what was coming.
She leaned over and told me how sexy it was watching me cum and as she played with my cum she sounded all warm and loving telling me "oooh baby, there's so much of it....". and i don't think I really need to go into details of how we shared her cleaning me up. So, while I'm not terribly horny today, I'm quite sure that by the weekend I'll be more than ready for her.
For tegelad - true chastity play hasn't ever interested either Sue or I. She still feels that if I want to masturbate that it should be my own decision but that she wants to be in control of what we do together and she'll likely be the first to say that if my masturbation makes it so that I am not ready for her when she may want sex with me that it's my loss, not hers! And yes, we are using condoms together, but there too, she's in control of how many of those we get to use together.
Gotta run
Well, there's going to be no nookie going on here today. She wasn't sure yesterday but said "I feel itchy" and sure enough, today she's announced she has a "yeast infection" going on. She's pretty sure it's triggered by the antibiotics that her doc prescribed for a budding sinus infection she felt coming on. She's already gone to the drugstore and gotten the 3-day treatment stuff. It's been a long time since she had one of these and I can already tell she's annoyed at having to cancel her plans.
Without fun in bed, yesterday was spent visiting her parents and then her brother came by and we all had dinner together.
Today, she's already gone "shopping" so she'll be at the mall for the next few hours if I know her, taking her mind off things.
Without her being in a horny/sexy mood, last night she told me that if I was horny that I was welcome to "go take care of it somewhere else".
But it was a good thing that Paul didn't come over and spend the night as our kids called somewhat early this morning to talk and say hi and had everyone still been in bed, it might have made for a more awkward conversation.
Today, she's already gone "shopping" so she'll be at the mall for the next few hours if I know her, taking her mind off things.
Without her being in a horny/sexy mood, last night she told me that if I was horny that I was welcome to "go take care of it somewhere else".
But it was a good thing that Paul didn't come over and spend the night as our kids called somewhat early this morning to talk and say hi and had everyone still been in bed, it might have made for a more awkward conversation.
Well poor Sue, and Paul I suppose. With no pussy anyway in your immediate future I suppose it didn't really affect you anyway Steve but I can imagine it put a damper on Sue's imagination as well as her activities. I've read that natural yoghurt also acts well as it replaces the good bacteria naturally present which is killed off by the antibiotics. Perhaps you could come up with an imaginative way to introduce it to the right area...
When she is a little better, getting horny but not quite ready to resume with Paul, it seems an ideal time for her to engage in a monster teasing session with you. A way of working out her frustrations by passing them on so to speak.
Either way, I'm sure order will be restored soon enough.
When she is a little better, getting horny but not quite ready to resume with Paul, it seems an ideal time for her to engage in a monster teasing session with you. A way of working out her frustrations by passing them on so to speak.
Either way, I'm sure order will be restored soon enough.
Yeah, poor Sue, but she's good today after a dose of Monistat. She does take acidophilus tablets which are the same as the active ingredient in yogurt. But she says that neither works "down there".
We talked a bit more over the weekend and one of the things I told her was that I thought things would be easier for me regarding Paul if he were a bit more of an aggressive/dom kind of guy. She said she knew this already and she was the one who said that I had responded differently when she was seeing Don and how I seemed to go along with things a bit more from how she remembered. I told her that it was easier when he "took his place" and took control of situations when it was the 3 of us together and I also told her that I felt less self-conscious about things because I felt that I knew/understood how he felt. It wasn't a criticism of Paul but more of an awareness of myself regarding being around him.
The last thing I'll share before heading into the office is that she asked me which I preferred, for her to stay overnight at his place tomorrow (Wednesday) or Thursday night into Friday. I was a bit unexpecting of that so suddenly without much real other discussion but I tentatively told her that I'd prefer Thursday night. She smiled and said "thank you".
More later.
We talked a bit more over the weekend and one of the things I told her was that I thought things would be easier for me regarding Paul if he were a bit more of an aggressive/dom kind of guy. She said she knew this already and she was the one who said that I had responded differently when she was seeing Don and how I seemed to go along with things a bit more from how she remembered. I told her that it was easier when he "took his place" and took control of situations when it was the 3 of us together and I also told her that I felt less self-conscious about things because I felt that I knew/understood how he felt. It wasn't a criticism of Paul but more of an awareness of myself regarding being around him.
The last thing I'll share before heading into the office is that she asked me which I preferred, for her to stay overnight at his place tomorrow (Wednesday) or Thursday night into Friday. I was a bit unexpecting of that so suddenly without much real other discussion but I tentatively told her that I'd prefer Thursday night. She smiled and said "thank you".
More later.
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Steve what in particular are you looking for Paul to do? Do you feel that Sue's experience is being shortcut because of Paul's lack of aggressiveness / assertivenes or your experience. Don't you run the risk of Paul misunderstanding your desires if Sue tells him that you want him to be more assertive?
Golf - I've been chatting with others here and elsewhere and some of them have somewhat convinced me that my ambivalence and reluctance that I feel is because there is no one person who is the alpha in the relationship between the 3 of us right now. I don't know that I want Paul to change so much as to point out what I'm feeling and maybe some thought about why.
It was interesting that she brought up Don and her reference to how I was with him vs. Paul. I've thought about it before and to me it felt different having Don be the one who wanted certain behavior or had certain expectations. His expression of them directly to me and indirectly, I think looking back, made it easier for me to accept and adopt a role that diminished my masculinity (that's the closest I can come to expressing it) and made it easier for me to be okay with him knowing what we or I were doing.
To put it bluntly, it feels "less gay" (in a relative way equating gay to diminished masculinity) with Don knowing we weren't fucking for example vs. how it feels for Paul to know that. It is different, I know that, and that is a big difference - my doing so with Paul he knows is my own doing in a way vs. with Don where ostensibly I was doing it for him, but looking back I also know and recognize that I did so without any real complaint or resistance so in some ways, it is the same.
I know it's a stupid thing to have my head hung up on but it is what it is. It's taken me this long to accept things myself that I like what we're doing and I actually like the condom usage. While I would love to join them the way Sue would like, I'm not quite ready to make Paul a part of that. It has made me self-conscious enough that I went down on Sue. Yes, yes, Paul seemed to think nothing of it other than saying it was pretty fun what we all did, but that doesn't necessarily make it suddenly feel less self-conscious for me.
And now tonight, she say's she is "better" now, the empty box and stuff in the trash seems to confirm that and she banished me to the office when I told her that it turned me on that Paul was going to have her overnight on Thursday and that I was horny about it. She rolled over to me and felt my hard cock and giggled and said that if I was that horny that I should go and then be quiet when I come back to bed.
One obvious solution would be if Sue would take the alpha role herself. Where she'd more lead than follow. But I don't see her doing that, in the past she's done it for a while but has never kept it up which makes me truly believe that it's not in her character despite it being something that could be fun for both of us.
But no, Golf, no I don't think it would be good if somehow she or I was responsible for suggesting that - as you said, it might change things to a less-nice place for all of us if it didn't work out right or he wasn't into it.
It was interesting that she brought up Don and her reference to how I was with him vs. Paul. I've thought about it before and to me it felt different having Don be the one who wanted certain behavior or had certain expectations. His expression of them directly to me and indirectly, I think looking back, made it easier for me to accept and adopt a role that diminished my masculinity (that's the closest I can come to expressing it) and made it easier for me to be okay with him knowing what we or I were doing.
To put it bluntly, it feels "less gay" (in a relative way equating gay to diminished masculinity) with Don knowing we weren't fucking for example vs. how it feels for Paul to know that. It is different, I know that, and that is a big difference - my doing so with Paul he knows is my own doing in a way vs. with Don where ostensibly I was doing it for him, but looking back I also know and recognize that I did so without any real complaint or resistance so in some ways, it is the same.
I know it's a stupid thing to have my head hung up on but it is what it is. It's taken me this long to accept things myself that I like what we're doing and I actually like the condom usage. While I would love to join them the way Sue would like, I'm not quite ready to make Paul a part of that. It has made me self-conscious enough that I went down on Sue. Yes, yes, Paul seemed to think nothing of it other than saying it was pretty fun what we all did, but that doesn't necessarily make it suddenly feel less self-conscious for me.
And now tonight, she say's she is "better" now, the empty box and stuff in the trash seems to confirm that and she banished me to the office when I told her that it turned me on that Paul was going to have her overnight on Thursday and that I was horny about it. She rolled over to me and felt my hard cock and giggled and said that if I was that horny that I should go and then be quiet when I come back to bed.
One obvious solution would be if Sue would take the alpha role herself. Where she'd more lead than follow. But I don't see her doing that, in the past she's done it for a while but has never kept it up which makes me truly believe that it's not in her character despite it being something that could be fun for both of us.
But no, Golf, no I don't think it would be good if somehow she or I was responsible for suggesting that - as you said, it might change things to a less-nice place for all of us if it didn't work out right or he wasn't into it.
Slightly surprised here Steve. It seems to me that Sue is acting in dominant mode most of the time you are in sexual mode. She consults but decides. Paul defers to her. Yes he fucks her hard but I'm pretty sure that is because it's what she wants from him. Don was different in that he didn't care what you wanted, perhaps he even put you in difficult situations deliberately sometimes. To show he could. Sue doesn't do this. Doesn't need to, but she is clearly in charge.
Far2 - that didn't happen - but might have been an interesting dynamic.
Peak - I think you're hitting the nail on the head in that I agree that Sue IS in charge. Yes, she does govern and decide what we (she and I) will do together, but she seems to almost do it passively. I guess maybe part of what I think I need is maybe for her to do it a bit more? In a way I wish she'd be the one after she's done with Paul to look over at me and say "how about you come and clean me up a bit?" or for her to be the one to say that I should put on a condom and take a turn with her. Hearing her or Paul say that, is, I think what I need to give me the comfort in doing so rather than the self-consciousness I feel because it's only me saying it in my head....
I'm laughing because it really just is an excuse, one that my head will accept. I'm laughing because in a way I sound like Sue 8 years ago where she needed to hear me tell her that I wanted her to have sex with other guys and her using that to counter her own misgivings, at least early on.
No matter, we only briefly talked about this last night and she said that she'd think about it was really all we got into. What we did talk about was that she wanted to be sure I was okay and good with her restarting her overnight's with Paul. I told her I was okay but that I kind of wanted to know more about what they did other than sex and she giggled and said "well, it's mostly sex you know!!!". But she said again that she honestly feels that neither of them have any romantic or strong emotional needs for each other. It sounded kind of weird to hear her say it but at one point she said that Paul feels more like a brother to her than a lover.
I guess part of what I"m also feeling is that i don't want to complain or ask for things and sound needy - that I need this or that from him or her to make me feel more comfortable. I'm out of order here in recapping this, but when Sue said that she would like it if I would join them a bit more when it's the 3 of us, that was when I had the thoughts that I wished she would actually say that more vocally when we're together. But then I suppose that's maybe a bit unrealistic expecting her to shift her attention and desire from Paul over to me just after he's finished with her.
It was very erotic to help her put a few things in an overnight bag. She took a few extra pair of panties, nothing terribly sexy, and told me that she liked to leave a pair or two spare at his place. It was very sexy to see her this morning - while it's her normal routine now that the kids are off for her to walk around naked both in our bedroom and now around the rest of the house. She admits she does it to tease me and I admitted to her that it works. Watching her get dressed also seemed new as it's been a while since she's spent a week-night with him and seeing her pack clothes for tomorrow was very erotic as she held this blouse and those pants against her in the mirror while I watched her decide what she'd wear for work tomorrow.
I need to run and get some work done today but I am quite sure I'll be back, if not during the workday, then surely later this evening.
Peak - I think you're hitting the nail on the head in that I agree that Sue IS in charge. Yes, she does govern and decide what we (she and I) will do together, but she seems to almost do it passively. I guess maybe part of what I think I need is maybe for her to do it a bit more? In a way I wish she'd be the one after she's done with Paul to look over at me and say "how about you come and clean me up a bit?" or for her to be the one to say that I should put on a condom and take a turn with her. Hearing her or Paul say that, is, I think what I need to give me the comfort in doing so rather than the self-consciousness I feel because it's only me saying it in my head....
I'm laughing because it really just is an excuse, one that my head will accept. I'm laughing because in a way I sound like Sue 8 years ago where she needed to hear me tell her that I wanted her to have sex with other guys and her using that to counter her own misgivings, at least early on.
No matter, we only briefly talked about this last night and she said that she'd think about it was really all we got into. What we did talk about was that she wanted to be sure I was okay and good with her restarting her overnight's with Paul. I told her I was okay but that I kind of wanted to know more about what they did other than sex and she giggled and said "well, it's mostly sex you know!!!". But she said again that she honestly feels that neither of them have any romantic or strong emotional needs for each other. It sounded kind of weird to hear her say it but at one point she said that Paul feels more like a brother to her than a lover.
I guess part of what I"m also feeling is that i don't want to complain or ask for things and sound needy - that I need this or that from him or her to make me feel more comfortable. I'm out of order here in recapping this, but when Sue said that she would like it if I would join them a bit more when it's the 3 of us, that was when I had the thoughts that I wished she would actually say that more vocally when we're together. But then I suppose that's maybe a bit unrealistic expecting her to shift her attention and desire from Paul over to me just after he's finished with her.
It was very erotic to help her put a few things in an overnight bag. She took a few extra pair of panties, nothing terribly sexy, and told me that she liked to leave a pair or two spare at his place. It was very sexy to see her this morning - while it's her normal routine now that the kids are off for her to walk around naked both in our bedroom and now around the rest of the house. She admits she does it to tease me and I admitted to her that it works. Watching her get dressed also seemed new as it's been a while since she's spent a week-night with him and seeing her pack clothes for tomorrow was very erotic as she held this blouse and those pants against her in the mirror while I watched her decide what she'd wear for work tomorrow.
I need to run and get some work done today but I am quite sure I'll be back, if not during the workday, then surely later this evening.
Steve, what you are saying and thinking does make sense. Sue is most comfortable being more submissive, as you have documented in these pages before in other threads. The fact that you used to take a more dominant approach to her at times and how Sue really got off on it is an example of this. My own personal opinion is that as difficult as it is for a take charge person to let go and embrace the docile role, it is even more difficult for a person who is most comfortable in the submissive role to really and fully become dominant with any permanence. In that regard, Sue may not have really changed that much. You have always portrayed her as a strong capable woman who can handle herself and situations in life. I think the major change has been in you and the level of control you have given up over time. The major void created when you vacated your place of control in the relationship has never truly been filled.
Power exchange can be extremely freeing for the beta or submissive. Not being in charge leaves one free to enjoy situations without guilt, fear, or awkwardness. I recall from your posts that Don was a bit course the first few times you cleaned Sue up in his presence. You accepted this fairly easily and it helped you both cement your roles, and understand the opposite's role, very clearly. Don was just the right guy at the wrong time for you and Sue. Now that you and Sue are practicing this lifestyle 24/7, Don, and his boundary pushing desires, would compliment things well.
The dynamic is completely different with Paul and it is understandable why you feel awkward about being submissive around him. Unlike Don, Paul has not earned your respect. Sue has not submitted to Paul the way she and you both did to Don. Sue is in charge, on that we all agree, but I think therein lies the source of your issue. Don overwhelmed Sue, in a good way, and in doing so, earned your admiration and respect. There was never any doubt who the alpha was with Don. That allowed you to easily assume the beta role and feel more natural in the role. Paul has never stepped up to the alpha level that Don was and may never. With Sue in charge, there is no strong male in the picture to compliment and enhance your beta role. Just my two cents, Steve.
Power exchange can be extremely freeing for the beta or submissive. Not being in charge leaves one free to enjoy situations without guilt, fear, or awkwardness. I recall from your posts that Don was a bit course the first few times you cleaned Sue up in his presence. You accepted this fairly easily and it helped you both cement your roles, and understand the opposite's role, very clearly. Don was just the right guy at the wrong time for you and Sue. Now that you and Sue are practicing this lifestyle 24/7, Don, and his boundary pushing desires, would compliment things well.
The dynamic is completely different with Paul and it is understandable why you feel awkward about being submissive around him. Unlike Don, Paul has not earned your respect. Sue has not submitted to Paul the way she and you both did to Don. Sue is in charge, on that we all agree, but I think therein lies the source of your issue. Don overwhelmed Sue, in a good way, and in doing so, earned your admiration and respect. There was never any doubt who the alpha was with Don. That allowed you to easily assume the beta role and feel more natural in the role. Paul has never stepped up to the alpha level that Don was and may never. With Sue in charge, there is no strong male in the picture to compliment and enhance your beta role. Just my two cents, Steve.
Jax - yes - you have put into words what I have been trying to figure out. I guess maybe it is a form of respect that I may need to feel for Paul and which, as you explained it, I did feel for Don. I mistakenly associate the concept of respect as someone I would look up to, but in this definition it is more about how I feel about the person and I think you have it right.
I especially liked your second paragraph as it totally addresses how I am feeling in terms of feeling free-er.
I'm not sure how things will resolve themselves as I've said before, it's not like I can just say to her "find a new guy", not when she's enjoying things the way they are. My hope is that maybe Sue seizes the role and plays with it if nothing else than to fulfill her wishes for the 3 of us interacting sexually when we're together.
I especially liked your second paragraph as it totally addresses how I am feeling in terms of feeling free-er.
I'm not sure how things will resolve themselves as I've said before, it's not like I can just say to her "find a new guy", not when she's enjoying things the way they are. My hope is that maybe Sue seizes the role and plays with it if nothing else than to fulfill her wishes for the 3 of us interacting sexually when we're together.
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