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Our "new norm"

  • Thread starterSoonToBe
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  • #201
peakmb said:
I fully understand your view Squirmy but what it seems both Raks and I picked up was the vector here. Both direction and velocity seems to have shifted again and I can't see why. The relationships you write about (and it may include your own from your previous comments) are about agreed boundaries and evolution to new positions. Ones where love and mutual respect come above everything else. Ones where the Sub / Dom actions are pretty equally exciting and rewarding overall to both parties. Here, the edges are shifting in non agreed ways. The word love is used in a sexual sense but the actions don't reflect it. A fantastic non-sexual relationship elsewhere is some compensation but I see no evidence that this has been enhanced, indeed with all the quality time Sue spends away and with Paul, it must have decreased. The gains even in a cuck context do not seem to outweigh the losses. The risks are greater than the rewards / excitement. Every key stage seems to be discussed between Sue and Steve at moments of enhanced arousal for Steve but not Sue.

Peak,

I see your view point and you may be correct; I may have missed something although for Steve's sake, hopefully everything continues to go in a manner that works for both him and Sue. Will be interesting to see how everything evolves following the upcoming weekend.
 
  • #202
No time right now, but again, I just need to remind you that she's with him a whole 8-10 hours a week. Some of that time is spent fucking but otherwise, right now even with the overnights, okay, it's 12-14 hours. The other 6 1/2 days are spent with me in our house (okay outside work) living our life which, as I've said, I don't post a lot about but overall, people who meet or see us are surprised at how close we are and how we still finish each others sentences. Our kids still accuse us of lying because when we tell them that we didn't rehearse things when they hear Sue and I say the exact same things to them.

Right now, I can't explain it but I feel very safe in letting my beta-desires play out with her and let her take advantage of what she is enjoying with Paul. As I've said, it's a weird feeling to want her to enjoy sex as much as possible with him, but there it is. I can't lie about it and I am quite enjoying things even if they seem crazy to some. And I'd add that our kids will be home for Thanksgiving and then winter-break all too soon so her newfound sense of freedom will be curtailed - so why not let it go and enjoy it? Seems crazy that I'm saying I am going to enjoy her going away with him, yes, it'll drive me crazy with jealousy and envy at times, but at others, I am already hard thinking about it.

Gotta run, she's on the phone with her parents right now and after that we're meeting for a glass of wine in the kitchen.
 
  • #203
Peak, I see your point in terms of time, but right now, as I've said, I want to see this play out and even last night it was very obvious to both Sue and I that we both want her to go away with Paul and have her fun. She looked at me and said that this was maybe the first time ever that it's her who wants to go with him and she made no secret about it, she wants to "fuck him a lot" while she's away. She said to me last night that one of the things she's wanted to have with Paul is the feeling of being his for more than just one night. As we talked she reminded me that she had really wanted 2 nights with him at times and when she knew it was turning me on to hear her talk, she told me what I'd said - that she wants to get fucked at lot for several days in a row.

I asked her what was different about Paul and going away this time as she'd been away with other guys for longer periods before. She told me she just feels different about Paul and she was the one who said that she wanted some of the feelings she'd thought about when she'd thought she wanted a big emotional affair. When I pushed her she said that it wasn't the emotions at all that she was looking for, that she now knows she just wants the sex. I admitted to her I was jealous and envious that Paul, being younger, could still "go 2 or 3 times a night" and she smiled and said "I know" and didn't need to say much more.

As I said, I know what you are all concerned about. Peak, your math is impeccable, but right now the swell of excitement has us both on worked up. i know the conversation should have troubled me more last night but it's so incredible to hear her talk about just wanting sex with him and that really being the main focus of why she wants to go away with him - it's just so hot for me to think that finally, after 18+ years, that maybe her sexual desires have been unlocked again and it's just so hot to see her wanting to explore them now for herself.

The conversation turned sexual last night and she asked me what I was thinking. I shared some of what Peak and Raks and others have said about us losing our sexual connection over time and she pooh-pooh-ed that in her response that we are just enjoying ourselves and she even joked that "even I think I enjoy it a bit too much with him sometimes". That comment precipitated a brief discussion about her loving sex with him. When I added what others here have said, that our time together is decreasing, she replied that it's something she is really enjoying, the feeling of giving into her physical desires now that she didn't feel she could in the past. I told her that sometimes I get worried we are maybe too far down this road and she asked me if I was still turned on by everything and I couldn't deny it and said yes. She held my hand and asked me if I still felt I wanted to continue it and I told her yes, that it still turned me on. She kissed me and then just said "then don't let it worry you" and she explained to me that in her head, when I came to her with this whole beta-thing, that it took her a while to accept it and to even try to understand it. But she now knows that in many ways it turns me on even more for her to have sex with Paul than for me to have sex with her. She said she doesn't hold it against me at all and that in fact, it's led to her (through some of her own actions) to let herself accept that she too has physical desires and that - "baby, having this much sex with him really does make me want it more with him" and she explained that the same was true for us and that if I wanted to be the guy fucking her right now, that she is sure that her desires would turn to focus on me. She then asked me if I wanted that? She said pretty openly that with her fucking him 3-4 times a week now, and with her now cumming quite intensely with him, that she finds herself wanting it more with him and asked me why that surprised me at all?

As we moved back towards a more sexual moment from a more serious moment she looked at me and asked me what I thought about her time away with Paul. I told her that I was fixated on the same things she'd talked about, not the social or other moments, but that I continually thought about how much sex she'd likely be having with him. She giggled and said "so, I'm not supposed to look forward to that?". And when she saw that I was getting horny she teased me and whispered sexily in my ear "he's going to cum in me so much baby" and she admitted that is something that turned her on about him over me, that I no longer seem to cum a lot - or not nearly as much as he does.

I told her I was still worried about losing her or that things would change between us. She asked me if I thought that would happen as a result of her going with him? I told her that I didn't think this one trip was going to do anything and she said I was exactly right. She told me that she has no thoughts of anyone other than me as her partner and her lover - but that she was totally into Paul being her lover - and that as long as I was okay with that, that the trip meant nothing else.

It was hard to argue feeling how intent and concerned she was as she spoke to me. Again, hard to convey in a short post but to me, I could feel it in her. And so, when she asked if I was horny and if I wanted to "have some fun" I was already pretty ready. As I slid down my sweats and boxers she slid up next to me and said she loved me very much and that she always wanted to be sure that felt happy and satisfied with what we were doing. She ran her hands up my stomach and chest and arms and told me that I still turned her on but that she was "just really into it with Paul right now" and I guess my cock answered her possible question at that when I moaned and told her that I could tell. She told me again how she thinks it's sort of romantic that I am so into her pleasure and she said that it makes her love me even more. My cock was rock hard already when she told me she still loves my cock and thinks it is beautiful and how it makes her horny to see me when I'm aroused knowing I'm aroused about her. But then she got closer and in a more sexy whisper she said "but Paul's cock is just so much fun baby" "my god it feel so wonderful".

You all know the rest, she teased me that she loves that she "know's how another man feels so intimately" and that "I know just when he's going to cum". She cooed in my ear "does that turn you on baby? that I know how another man feels in my pussy?" I must have grunted because she kept it up "he's going to cum a lot in me this weekend baby...." and then in a totally sexy voice "...I can't wait to have him for more than just one night....". Between her taunting and my hand - it was over very soon and I moaned and she encouraged me "come on baby, let me see you cum....". When I'd stroked out the last few drops, she pulled me towards her (not against her) and hugged my upper torso and shoulders and she kissed me and said she loved me. When our hug ended she gently pushed me back towards the bed and said "lets get this mess cleaned up" and you know the rest.

We did talk in bed after that and she had a great suggestion for me to go up to Boston and visit my buddies up there for the weekend. So I'm emailing them now and seeing if on such short notice we can make plans. It would be easier if I wasn't here reminded of an empty house for 2 out of the 3 nights.

More later. Oh - Peak - I'm not sure how long she knew the other wives/girlfriends would be going but I'm sure that was part of the reason she agreed to go, that she wouldn't be the only female companion there.
 
  • #204
Do we see any love here ? Sorry couldn't spot it either in your words or Sue's words. You would reject my observations as always, I know that. But did we see any concern? Any worries? All her statements sound so shallow and superficial. ( of course we were not there, so we don't know how they were delivered, but the content you posted say so.) Don't worry - things will escalate after this and believe me, you will never have any control from now onwards. Her words state how excited she is to leave you and into the arms of her lover.

Believe me STB, the chemistry you shared is gone.
 
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  • #205
Raks - do you get tired of being on the opposite side of how I feel all the time? Please spare your judgement on the love that my wife and I feel for each other - please don't try to tell me how either of us feel about each other. Just because it doesn't match your definition of how things should work doesn't mean you need to continually share your thoughts here.
 
  • #206
Steve,
Good answer and thanks for posting it. I have always said that this weekend was the right thing for both of you. Trying to have stopped or deferred it would have disrupted too much and achieved little. I still worry about the women talking but you can't pull out now so just be aware of the danger.

My concern remains the longer term trend. Sue IS slowly pulling away from you and towards Paul. If you offered her 3 days a week with him at the moment, she would take it. Any relationship takes work and for Sue at the moment, I suspect that maintaining her sexual interest in you and the penetration of your cock in her may actually take some mental effort. It is ironic that at present that effort seems to be being loosely supported by Paul. Whatever, Sue needs to at least maintain the pilot light in the sexual boiler. Getting it lit later without it could be hard work for her and may even upset you at what could be later a vulnerable time (if you've reached the edge say). That is one reason why the irregular reconnections worked so well last time. It may seem hot to be doing without them this time, but there might just be price to pay down the line. I don't see anything bad enough to split you apart but it could get a bit cold for a time, and at a time when you are probably thinking it will be hot.
 
  • #207
Peak - I'm going to be honest about something that I only briefly mentioned in my earlier post.

I do see the end - it's becoming clearer to me. I am beginning to feel that there is an end to my denial desires. I know that as things continue to escalate that they are going to continue to turn me on. I know that things are likely to continue in this direction as I see Sue's desires growing too. I know that Raks and other foresee all sorts of disasters in the future - and I do know that by her having this much sex with him (and comparatively less with me) that there's virtually no choice that her desires will increase for him. Make no mistake about it, I want to see this happen, I cannot tell you how incredible it is to see her let herself feel this way for herself.

I honestly don't mind sharing her this way, or yes, as some may say, giving her away. I truly love that she lets other guys, Paul now, fuck her and I continue to love knowing that other men (Paul now) know her so intimately. I love the way it makes me feel to know she feels the same way and more importantly, that she's letting herself feel this and want this.

But what I felt the other day and am now more aware of is that I do feel a distinct rising level of desire for her physically again. It's subtle and I felt it most in hearing her tell me how fully Paul fucks her and how she is feeling more desire for him. It was the first in a long time that I felt what I'd call an alpha-moment where I felt the desire for me to want her that way again. And it's given me the thought that things aren't going to stay like this forever, I expect that as time goes by, my denial-desires and my desire to be the beta will wane. I'll say that this is the firs time in a while that I can see a time when I may want to resume things.

I'll end this here by saying I put up a brave front at times and that everyone should surely know that while I so want her to go away with Paul and have the experience she wants, that at the same time I definitely feel that rising angst. Feeling my cock get hard even with my melancholy thoughts - although her suggestion of me going away for a few days was great as a diversion. While I may jerk off over and over at the thoughts of what she'll be doing, at the same time, I do feel the rising cuck angst feelings as the time is getting closer. I expect them to come out later tonight.
 
  • #208
Sorry STB, if my statement sounded like judgemental. That was certainly not my intention. And I am not trying to tell you how you feel about each other. And are you really that upset at my comment that you want I should stop posting here ? It's your thread - and thanks for openly sharing your story, but if you cannot bear a thought that is contrast with your own, I shall refrain from posting further on this thread.

I will repeat once again that I do not wish to offend you in any way and be judgemental about your relationship. And if you felt so...I am sorry.
 
  • #209
Do you think that after you decide to have her bare again that you will slide back into cuckmode for a while like what is going on now? Why not just pick out an important date in the future, maybe you already do, but allowing this to build, go longer and deeper and then just reconnect. I dont see any issues with that especially since its what you both seem to want and enjoy. If you are both having fun and sharing your thoughts and feelings then whats the harm. Be the beta! Enjoy their sex! Eat that pussy! I think you have found that while the intimacy changed a bit the connection you have is stronger!
 
  • #210
Raks - I don't mind you posting and I certainly respect your opinions, but I really don't think you can be in a position to understand how Sue and I feel emotionally about each other. This is a cuckold website so I don't post all of the things we do together - whether it's taking a quiet walk around the nearby lake or sharing a bottle of wine together as we sit around the fire-pit in the backyard. I just think that without all of this other info, that you can't make your opinions or statements as you are without all the facts. I do know we are playing with fire here - but we are well down this road now for many years that I think some of what you are taking as radical or substantial, are really only incremental changes on the already long road we're on.

Far2 - I don't know - it was the first time in a long time that I felt a true alpha urge in me. I think for me, part of it is how I feel about Paul. Maybe seeing him as not being in competition for her, somewhat as I felt with Robert, that I've been able to let myself explore my beta desires. A part of me feels that if Paul were to become more of a threat/concern, that perhaps my alpha desires would re-surface. In some ways I am thinking that this may be the long term evolution - that at some point things will escalate further with Paul, spurring me into action - or that I will tire of the beta-role and wish to feel and do more. I'm unclear on this right now, as I said, the first alpha urge was surprising to me to feel.
 
  • #211
Steve,
It's an interesting observation that you are just now starting to get urges. I think Sue has seen sparks from time to time. It may be partly why she questions your desire so often. You do need to share this stirring with her after this weekend. I just wonder if Sue started her bare reconnections whether that would delay or hasten your Alpha switch in any way?
 
  • #212
peakmb said:
Steve,
It's an interesting observation that you are just now starting to get urges. I think Sue has seen sparks from time to time. It may be partly why she questions your desire so often. You do need to share this stirring with her after this weekend. I just wonder if Sue started her bare reconnections whether that would delay or hasten your Alpha switch in any way?


Steve,

I do agree with Peak in the Quoted Post, it is truly an interesting observation that you are just now starting to get alpha urges. I believe those that are similar to you and I which have beta tendencies, experiences denial/restrictive intercourse by mutual decision of both husband and wife will continue to have the subtle alpha urges at times. As Peak said, Sue may have noticed your urges from time to time which may be one of reasons in which she questions your desires as often as she does and also may be why she has given you so many “outs” over the last 6+ months as she has become much more connected to Paul sexually. As I have always said, Open Honest Communication between a husband and wife is the key to relationships and even more important as a couple ventures down the chosen path. With that said, as Peak indicated, you should share your feeling with Sue after this weekend as it is always good to shared your feelings, thought, etc following each new step within the development of the relationship (Steve/Sue, Sue/Paul, Steve/Sue/Paul).

While there is a chance you may want to return to your alpha side in time, there is also that chance that you will reach a point where you may prefer to remain in the relationship as a beta. You have began to truly experience what it is like to have an enhanced level of intimacy and a much stronger connection and I am sure that your shared chemistry is out the roof by this point based on what I have read. Then again I may be reading more into it your post than their actual is.

While some that post here would question how things would be if you and Sue started a reconnection via bare intercourse. I myself would assume that would really depend on the true intention of the bare intercourse, in my case the infrequent bare intercourse reminds me of that in which I am restricted from and my sexual enjoyment is current in line with how yours seems to be at the moment with Sue and how she is enjoying her time with Paul. It would seem that we are similar in regard that we both tend to find our enjoyment and sexual fulfillment through knowing that our wives respectively are very much into what they are doing and the enjoyment each of them receive from the experiences that they have and what they share with us as beta husbands.

My general view point, Sue has been clear with you that she currently prefers Paul sexually over you. Sue and You have continued to enhance your intimacy and have developed a stronger connection as well as found that your shared chemistry has been reaffirmed. Sue seems to have made it clear that she would prefer to be exclusive and commit to one man when it comes to bare intercourse with fluid transfer. She is the alpha in the relationship, you are truly the beta and to some degree, Paul may become Sue’s equal. It will truly be interesting to follow your continued evolution within the overall relationship.
 
  • #213
Well, last night and this morning was a bit heart wrenching for me and her. It surprised both of us a bit because she's gone away before and certainly spent the night before - but this was different too. I know it was almost torturous last night watching/helping her pack. I was as honest and as supportive as I could be, especially when she picked out several different lingerie items for their nights together and also some somewhat revealing undies for her to wear in the daytime. Don't get me wrong, I was so turned on along with her as she went through different items and held them against her to see in the mirror and let me see her. I told her that I thought several items she'd picked/packed would really turn Paul on. And she even showed me some new undies she'd bought for the trip.

She was as excited as I was but at the same time, we had several minutes of holding hands and kissing where she asked me if I was going to be okay and when I told her that I would surely take my mind off things going away myself, I told her that I would be thinking of her the entire time. She blushed and then told me she was a little nervous too, that it'd been a long (long, long) time since she'd been away with anyone she felt like this with where she couldn't wait for the sex to begin. She reminded me of an early trip that she and I took up to Rhode Island one summer and she asked me if I remembered how horny she was - when she reminded me of leaving one bag in the hallway when we got to the room while we romped on the bed I did remember it well. We'd only been together a year or two maybe, similar to Paul's tenure, and I remembered how wet she was (she was much younger and back then just the thought of sex would sometimes get her wet), especially her washing her panties out in the bathroom sink and letting them dry because she hadn't brought enough pairs with her.

But I digress. Things were a little more chaste this morning. As I've said about other mornings like this - I'm never sure if she does it on purpose or it just happens but she walked around the house naked for a while this morning with just a towel around her head while she scoured through the laundry piles for something specific - a leopard-print bra - that she had wanted to wear today. I told her honestly when I saw her looking around and in everything that she looked very sexy and she smiled at that. What I didn't tell her was that as she knelt or bent over to look in the laundry basket or her drawers was that when I got a glimpse or more of her pussy, all I could think about was it being filled by Paul over this weekend. It made me horny to think of her like that even if I was overall kind of down at her leaving.

She put her suitcase in the car and then came back in and we kissed and hugged for a little while. She reached down and held my cock through my pants for a few minutes and, feeling how hard I was she smiled and said that "we'll have our own time when I get home baby" and when I hugged her and told her to have a good time and to call me or at least text me she said she was going to miss me and I think I even saw a tear in her eye.

We were in the bathroom in the bedroom where she put the last of her makeup into her purse and when we walked together into the bedroom she said that she was going to be leaving and just 15 minutes ago I stopped her. She said that we'd already kissed and that she didn't want to be late for work. I held her tightly and she was just starting to complain when I said "we have one more thing to do before you leave". She looked at me like I had 2 heads and said "what now?". I held up her hand and showed her that her rings were still on. She blushed and smiled when she saw what I'd shown her and she was quiet and again, her eyes looked a little teary as I held her hand she whispered that she loved me. I told her that I loved her too and as I slid off both of her rings I told her that I loved her enough to want her to have a great time with Paul and that "with these off your finger, you can let yourself be his this weekend". She started to say something but I pulled her to me and hugged me and I said "just promise me that I can put them back on you when you come home on Monday". She leaned back and looked at me with this incredulous look on her face and said "oh my god baby, of course you can, I love you, you are who I want to come home to".

Squirm - thanks for your continued supportive comments. I appreciate your thoughts and sharing your view of things as being okay if they progress or even stay this way. Right now I am truly enjoying and quite horny about her going with him. I can't explain it but I love knowing she'll be having a weekend of bliss that I hope she'll share with me in one way or another.

I'm hoping to cut out of work a little early today, come home and get things together and then head up to Boston so I'm there at a more reasonable hour. But right now, I'm thinking I may need to jerk-off to relieve the intense hard-on that I seem to have had since she closed the door and pulled out of the driveway. I suspect this will be a pattern for the weekend.
 
  • #214
Steve,

Thank you for the update, enjoy your weekend with the guys. I am sure that Sue will enjoy her weekend with Paul.
 
  • #215
You should ask her to have paul take a few pics of her pussy before, during and after! Any thought that when you are with them that Sue would rather have you show your affection by jerking off while they are fucking instead of throwing it in with a condom on? I know she does it for you but since she loves watching you jerkoff so much that maybe she would appreciate that more? Something i did while watching once was to put a fleshlight in between the mattress and boxspring and then i could watch and "fuck" too! Just a thought!
 
  • #216
Somethings are just far too easy to remember. Some are just best forgotten. Sharing it seems is not always caring....
 
  • #217
Having been away for a bit, I have been reading and catching up on this thread. I think Sue really does get Steve and what he is desiring, as proofed by her statement that she knows that many times Steve would rather Paul be fucking her than doing Sue himself. She was not hurt by that, but has genuinely accepted it in a mature fashion. At the same time, she is also very conscious of her own physical needs and feels the freedom to meet those needs with Paul. Sue and Steve actually seem just as affectionate with each other as they ever have been and rarely seem to disagree or argue now, unlike when Steve alluded to frequent arguments and disagreements back in his very earliest threads here.

Sue's excitement at going away on this trip with Paul is understandable. This will be blunt and I hope no one, especially Steve, takes my view on this the wrong way. Despite all the experiences that have led Steve and Sue to this point in time, it has always been driven by Steve's desires. His desires have always, and continue to be, the central nucleus that drive both of their actions. In my opinion, part of Sue's excitement at going away on this trip could be based on her wanting to feel normal for a little while. A woman, a man, both attracted to the other, both comfortable with the other, traveling as a normal couple and enjoying each other like normal couples do for a while. Call it what you will, but in my mind, as much as Sue does enjoy these games her and Steve have been living, I am of the opinion she will use this trip, and maybe even uses her overnights with Paul, as an escape or a time-out of sorts, to forget all the alpha/beta/cuckoldress stuff for just a little while. Is that so far out of the realm of possibility to consider? I am in no way challenging the love they share, their strong marriage, or anything else about Sue and Steve, and I hope that is clear.
 
  • #218
STB
Hope all is good ,with you and your buddy's.
i guess all we can hope is that, Sue is having a great time with Paul.
keep us posted.
 
  • #219
STB
Do you have any updates, or good news from Sue and Paul.
keep us posted.
 
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  • #220
Steve,
Whatever you are wanting or expecting when Sue gets back it will be interesting to see what sort of reconnection your wife wants. Maybe not today. She's going to be tired both physically and emotionally but later.. Or does she not need / want it at all from you? Is the memory of her weekend enough to sustain her, and how would that make you feel?
 
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