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No - no offense taken but everyone's thoughts have been fodder for our conversation.
We've started off by talking about what we like and what we enjoy and have agreed to talk about that first, only we haven't had that much time.
She's said a lot more stuff about how she feels and I've shared mine. What I've told her is some of what has been said here, only how I put it was that I wanted to feel cherished and special in some way that builds us together emotionally if we are willingly giving it up elsewhere.
I don't have much time today to post but that much we have talked out. Actually we both feel that as long as we feel confident and comfortable and still connected - which she admits as much as I do that we need to figure out - that we both do want to continue sexually as we have been. She admitted to feeling confused at first but now, as I've shared, she's begun to enjoy what we've put in motion and she asked me honestly that if I felt good about everything, would it be a problem to let the sexual aspects of it continue. I in turn admitted that I did still enjoy what we were doing denial-wise and that, in being honest with myself and echoing some of what's been said here - it really isn't the sex that's the issue.
So - we have agreed that she'll limit her time with Paul for now. I didn't think it was fair to think that she'd totally stop seeing him. She said she's talked to him and he's aware that we're having an issue but isn't fully aware of everything other than that she and I want to figure things out better.
One thing that did change, supposedly began last night! I'd gotten home quite late and then wanted to get some stress out so I exercised for like an hour or more. After showering and then hanging in bed watching TV she came up and joined me. When she took off her robe I saw she'd put on something more sexy than just her night-shirt - a pair of "boy shorts" with lace all over and a shortie t-shirt that revealed her stomach and waist and she lay down next to me and we started to kiss - softly at first but then more passionately. I loved seeing her nipples through the shirt. She said to me that she wanted to make Wednesday's "hotter" between us and that even though we aren't going to have sex, that she admitted that she'd like to turn me on more and even, sometimes, "take care of myself too". There was far less cuckold teasing and more overall sex to turn me on as she got me hot and going. It did feel weird to be having this more serious discussion with her earlier in the evening and in the days before and to now be feeling very horny - but I didn't question it once we got started. She rubbed her body against mine and soon I was at full mast and quickly stroking away. She told me again how she loved to watch me and I told her that it made me horny to let her watch. She started to add some cuckish teasing towards the end as she knew it would get me horny and to cum if she continued. What really surprised me though was at the end when I was just about to erupt - she pulled my hand away - and for a second I thought she was going to just let my cock bob away there - and then - my god - she put my cock in her mouth. I instinctively put my hand on her head but I didn't need to - she sucked me so perfectly and cupped my balls just right that a moment later I thrust into her mouth and let it fly. She gagged at first but then took to stroking my cock while she kept the tip in her mouth. Finally when I felt her run her thumb up from the way bottom (how awesome that she remembered that!!!) I knew she was done with me. In the split second she pulled her mouth off of my cock I realized what she was going to do next. My eyes regained focus just in time to see her come towards me and passionately kiss me, snowballing with me as we frenched and played with each others tongues. My cum was pretty tart tasting but it was still like heaven sharing the moment with her. She opened her eyes and looked into mine and as she did, she pushed most of my cum from her mouth to mine and then pulled back. It turned me on that she wanted to watch me swallow it. She told me afterwards that she wanted to do that for me on Wednesday's in the future. As I said, a surprise, but also some that I think she wants or needs to feel with me based on how she said it, but again, we didn't talk more about it yet as that was just before we both conked out.
There isn't more to tell right now. I mean there is - we've talked about a lot in detail and she's shared some of her own thoughts too, some of which I told her that I knew were likely to come out. And while it stung to hear some of it, what I have to say is that maybe we did need more time very close like this after the ski weekend, more than either of us knew.
We've started off by talking about what we like and what we enjoy and have agreed to talk about that first, only we haven't had that much time.
She's said a lot more stuff about how she feels and I've shared mine. What I've told her is some of what has been said here, only how I put it was that I wanted to feel cherished and special in some way that builds us together emotionally if we are willingly giving it up elsewhere.
I don't have much time today to post but that much we have talked out. Actually we both feel that as long as we feel confident and comfortable and still connected - which she admits as much as I do that we need to figure out - that we both do want to continue sexually as we have been. She admitted to feeling confused at first but now, as I've shared, she's begun to enjoy what we've put in motion and she asked me honestly that if I felt good about everything, would it be a problem to let the sexual aspects of it continue. I in turn admitted that I did still enjoy what we were doing denial-wise and that, in being honest with myself and echoing some of what's been said here - it really isn't the sex that's the issue.
So - we have agreed that she'll limit her time with Paul for now. I didn't think it was fair to think that she'd totally stop seeing him. She said she's talked to him and he's aware that we're having an issue but isn't fully aware of everything other than that she and I want to figure things out better.
One thing that did change, supposedly began last night! I'd gotten home quite late and then wanted to get some stress out so I exercised for like an hour or more. After showering and then hanging in bed watching TV she came up and joined me. When she took off her robe I saw she'd put on something more sexy than just her night-shirt - a pair of "boy shorts" with lace all over and a shortie t-shirt that revealed her stomach and waist and she lay down next to me and we started to kiss - softly at first but then more passionately. I loved seeing her nipples through the shirt. She said to me that she wanted to make Wednesday's "hotter" between us and that even though we aren't going to have sex, that she admitted that she'd like to turn me on more and even, sometimes, "take care of myself too". There was far less cuckold teasing and more overall sex to turn me on as she got me hot and going. It did feel weird to be having this more serious discussion with her earlier in the evening and in the days before and to now be feeling very horny - but I didn't question it once we got started. She rubbed her body against mine and soon I was at full mast and quickly stroking away. She told me again how she loved to watch me and I told her that it made me horny to let her watch. She started to add some cuckish teasing towards the end as she knew it would get me horny and to cum if she continued. What really surprised me though was at the end when I was just about to erupt - she pulled my hand away - and for a second I thought she was going to just let my cock bob away there - and then - my god - she put my cock in her mouth. I instinctively put my hand on her head but I didn't need to - she sucked me so perfectly and cupped my balls just right that a moment later I thrust into her mouth and let it fly. She gagged at first but then took to stroking my cock while she kept the tip in her mouth. Finally when I felt her run her thumb up from the way bottom (how awesome that she remembered that!!!) I knew she was done with me. In the split second she pulled her mouth off of my cock I realized what she was going to do next. My eyes regained focus just in time to see her come towards me and passionately kiss me, snowballing with me as we frenched and played with each others tongues. My cum was pretty tart tasting but it was still like heaven sharing the moment with her. She opened her eyes and looked into mine and as she did, she pushed most of my cum from her mouth to mine and then pulled back. It turned me on that she wanted to watch me swallow it. She told me afterwards that she wanted to do that for me on Wednesday's in the future. As I said, a surprise, but also some that I think she wants or needs to feel with me based on how she said it, but again, we didn't talk more about it yet as that was just before we both conked out.
There isn't more to tell right now. I mean there is - we've talked about a lot in detail and she's shared some of her own thoughts too, some of which I told her that I knew were likely to come out. And while it stung to hear some of it, what I have to say is that maybe we did need more time very close like this after the ski weekend, more than either of us knew.
Thanks STB. Peak has put it quite well. Great to see Sue desiring you sexually as well and appreciating your needs as well. That's a good sign. Hope she continues to realize what an incredible gift you are to her. And that alone should be able to rouse great desire in her. Good to see some element of alpha in you resurfacing when you put your hand on head. Good also to know that Paul realizes his role in the situation. Hope he too can cram some sense into Sue to back off for a little while.
I think you must put a limit on period of your denial to max two months. And then you must enjoy a fortnight of being Alpha. That would ensure that the relationship between Sue and Paul remains sexual at best and she too would ensure that she enjoys an Alpha male whenever she desires. Going long term without any checks or balances or just with "WIll deal with situation when it arises" is too dangerous a proposition that you must stay away from. Good luck STB. Hope you regain balance in your relationship with Sue.
I think you must put a limit on period of your denial to max two months. And then you must enjoy a fortnight of being Alpha. That would ensure that the relationship between Sue and Paul remains sexual at best and she too would ensure that she enjoys an Alpha male whenever she desires. Going long term without any checks or balances or just with "WIll deal with situation when it arises" is too dangerous a proposition that you must stay away from. Good luck STB. Hope you regain balance in your relationship with Sue.
Raks - I respect your opinion and we are talking about such a schedule as well as certain limits and, I suppose, if you will call them - rules.
But the other thing that I should add at this time is that we both still want to continue the denial. What we've really to realize is that what I need to feel isn't so much desire as perhaps the word respect or consideration. We've been very honest with each other and I'll admit that in some ways she is right, that I wanted to let the genie out of the bottle and now that its out I really shouldn't be complaining about her desires, but more determining what makes us both feel fulfilled and cherished - something that she sees was very much lacking. She's said that she is going to reduce/limit her time with Paul until we get ourselves into a better rhythm - and yes she knows that will mean that periodically - perhaps once a month or longer, perhaps 2 as Raks suggested, that we will take time to focus on each other's pleasure directly instead of indirectly. So yes, a weekend away filled with passion between just us is much of what we agreed to.
In continuing the genie out of the bottle situation - we very openly discussed condoms and my continued use of them. She has now said quite clearly that my fetish has rubbed off on her and she is equally fascinated with how she feels about me using condoms with her. She says that it wouldn't be the same and she surely wouldn't want me using them if she weren't seeing Paul, the obvious implication that while she sees him, that she now genuinely prefers that I not cum in her. She says that it's now been something that's been a part of us for so long now - and she's referring to starting at the end of 2014 and I had to agree, except for the few times last summer, that it has been now well more than a year since I would cum in her regularly. I told her honestly that as long as she was okay with it, that the arousal still continues for me and she smiled so as I said that and told me that she really considers it a beautiful expression of my love for her to now - literally - have given her something that she says makes their time together very special. But she also said something else - that in some ways, that her having that with him seems to also make her have to think about and understand and she used the word "control" her relationship with Paul and that it's something that makes it special and she said makes her able to balance things better with him. When I asked her what she meant she said that because it's so good with him when they are together, that it sort of lets her space it out better knowing she wants time before she sees him next, etc. So, in her own way she says that because she enjoys it so much with him, that it's easier to keep separate.
The other thing that she's said in the past but now she's said that I should be a bit more forceful and remind her of at times is that she says she'd like to share herself with me more as she did last weekend and she also said that maybe it's not so good for me to always be there when they're together and that maybe it would have been better if she'd just found some time to go see in the week after skiing instead of having him come to us the following weekend. I told her that I would really like that and that it was one of my favorite things to do - and I told her again about how it was like a "first date" and she giggled at that - but she said that once she could relax with me and feel she was sharing her own fun experience instead of my trying to give her yet another one, she said that it's something she wants to get back to starting to enjoy.
So - we are working things out. This weekend we are going to check out some NJ wineries and then I've made us reservations at a nice restaurant for Valentines Day - when we talked she was the one who said that Valentines Day weekend should be one of those weekends that are for us - and it'll be even nicer as a 3-day weekend. She asked me if she could see Paul at all and I told her the same as I told her for this weekend - that I'd prefer if she went over there early Sunday afternoon tomorrow and then didn't come home too late so that we could have all of tomorrow and tomorrow night together and then almost all of the next evening together. She said that would be a nice present for her and I told her that her present to me will be to come home both days ready to excitedly share herself with me. She hugged me deeply and said that would be the best present of them all but I think I'll still get her something new jewelry wise- she's been looking at something old-fashioned - a pendant that she can open and put a pic or two inside.
But the other thing that I should add at this time is that we both still want to continue the denial. What we've really to realize is that what I need to feel isn't so much desire as perhaps the word respect or consideration. We've been very honest with each other and I'll admit that in some ways she is right, that I wanted to let the genie out of the bottle and now that its out I really shouldn't be complaining about her desires, but more determining what makes us both feel fulfilled and cherished - something that she sees was very much lacking. She's said that she is going to reduce/limit her time with Paul until we get ourselves into a better rhythm - and yes she knows that will mean that periodically - perhaps once a month or longer, perhaps 2 as Raks suggested, that we will take time to focus on each other's pleasure directly instead of indirectly. So yes, a weekend away filled with passion between just us is much of what we agreed to.
In continuing the genie out of the bottle situation - we very openly discussed condoms and my continued use of them. She has now said quite clearly that my fetish has rubbed off on her and she is equally fascinated with how she feels about me using condoms with her. She says that it wouldn't be the same and she surely wouldn't want me using them if she weren't seeing Paul, the obvious implication that while she sees him, that she now genuinely prefers that I not cum in her. She says that it's now been something that's been a part of us for so long now - and she's referring to starting at the end of 2014 and I had to agree, except for the few times last summer, that it has been now well more than a year since I would cum in her regularly. I told her honestly that as long as she was okay with it, that the arousal still continues for me and she smiled so as I said that and told me that she really considers it a beautiful expression of my love for her to now - literally - have given her something that she says makes their time together very special. But she also said something else - that in some ways, that her having that with him seems to also make her have to think about and understand and she used the word "control" her relationship with Paul and that it's something that makes it special and she said makes her able to balance things better with him. When I asked her what she meant she said that because it's so good with him when they are together, that it sort of lets her space it out better knowing she wants time before she sees him next, etc. So, in her own way she says that because she enjoys it so much with him, that it's easier to keep separate.
The other thing that she's said in the past but now she's said that I should be a bit more forceful and remind her of at times is that she says she'd like to share herself with me more as she did last weekend and she also said that maybe it's not so good for me to always be there when they're together and that maybe it would have been better if she'd just found some time to go see in the week after skiing instead of having him come to us the following weekend. I told her that I would really like that and that it was one of my favorite things to do - and I told her again about how it was like a "first date" and she giggled at that - but she said that once she could relax with me and feel she was sharing her own fun experience instead of my trying to give her yet another one, she said that it's something she wants to get back to starting to enjoy.
So - we are working things out. This weekend we are going to check out some NJ wineries and then I've made us reservations at a nice restaurant for Valentines Day - when we talked she was the one who said that Valentines Day weekend should be one of those weekends that are for us - and it'll be even nicer as a 3-day weekend. She asked me if she could see Paul at all and I told her the same as I told her for this weekend - that I'd prefer if she went over there early Sunday afternoon tomorrow and then didn't come home too late so that we could have all of tomorrow and tomorrow night together and then almost all of the next evening together. She said that would be a nice present for her and I told her that her present to me will be to come home both days ready to excitedly share herself with me. She hugged me deeply and said that would be the best present of them all but I think I'll still get her something new jewelry wise- she's been looking at something old-fashioned - a pendant that she can open and put a pic or two inside.
Steve,
I'm glad to see that your discussions are continuing. I hope you are not thinking they are nearing conclusion as you really need the feedback of Sue's actions as apposed to words. Not that you shouldn't trust her but she now has previous of agreeing one thing and then persuading you later (usually from an excited state) that it isn't what you want.
I've said it before, if Paul wasn't in most ways a better fuck than you, what would be the point of Sue having him as a lover. That is exactly the risk too. If she ever gets to love him even approaching your level he's then bound to be a better bet as the main partner. That is why the emotional bond is so overwhelmingly important to you and Sue, why her actions over the last few weeks have been so damaging and why the reconnections are now so important.
Personally, I'm uneasy about the reconnection weekends and the continuing use of condoms. I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing these as total time out periods. Of everything in the game. I don't see the lack of a condom as being a time when you suddenly switch up to become Mr Super Stud and have to compete with Paul to give Sue her best orgasms but I do see it as a moment when you can truly feel each other fully as a couple again. I think this is particularly important exactly because you both put so much emphasis on the symbolism of their use. If I were you at this point I would be planning to use the no condom voucher soon (don't confuse it with Valentine's though). You both need to see how you feel after it. I suspect if you use it romantically and not forcefully you will both end up wanting it again on the reconnection times.
Her reminder to you that you should be more forceful is also important. Communication is two way and up until last week you had never gone against Sue's desires but always agreed that you were excited by them and gone along with them. I hope you can see now that this is not a good strategy for you and it seems even Sue is asking for more feedback / pushback to guide her in her dominance of you. It is not an act of defiance but feedback. What you are playing with is for the excitement of both of you equally overall. Sometimes one or the other may get more out of it but you both need something.
Reading back, I'm not sure that Paul even now is surpassing Robert with Sue, and I'm equally sure she loved him more too. I believe that worked for you at the time only because you didn't see it and hear it. I believe it would have hurt you to have done so and perhaps have diminished you a little with Sue had you fully witnessed it and not shown yourself to have been hurt. So, on the issue of you spending time with them when Paul is around I think it would help you both if most of the time Sue was at his place without you, or at least ended up there if you were out together. It would help her 'separation' issues, and it would more sharply point out to you that on those days she is with Paul. That you are not part of their time by virtue of being there and watching. If you are there I think Sue needs to somehow include herself in your relief during the time. Maybe a hand job or an end point blowjob as she has done but something showing Paul and you that your pleasure means something to her too. A meaningful gesture.
The evolution over the next few months is going to be very interesting. I thank you once again for being open enough to share even the difficult moments too.
I'm glad to see that your discussions are continuing. I hope you are not thinking they are nearing conclusion as you really need the feedback of Sue's actions as apposed to words. Not that you shouldn't trust her but she now has previous of agreeing one thing and then persuading you later (usually from an excited state) that it isn't what you want.
I've said it before, if Paul wasn't in most ways a better fuck than you, what would be the point of Sue having him as a lover. That is exactly the risk too. If she ever gets to love him even approaching your level he's then bound to be a better bet as the main partner. That is why the emotional bond is so overwhelmingly important to you and Sue, why her actions over the last few weeks have been so damaging and why the reconnections are now so important.
Personally, I'm uneasy about the reconnection weekends and the continuing use of condoms. I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing these as total time out periods. Of everything in the game. I don't see the lack of a condom as being a time when you suddenly switch up to become Mr Super Stud and have to compete with Paul to give Sue her best orgasms but I do see it as a moment when you can truly feel each other fully as a couple again. I think this is particularly important exactly because you both put so much emphasis on the symbolism of their use. If I were you at this point I would be planning to use the no condom voucher soon (don't confuse it with Valentine's though). You both need to see how you feel after it. I suspect if you use it romantically and not forcefully you will both end up wanting it again on the reconnection times.
Her reminder to you that you should be more forceful is also important. Communication is two way and up until last week you had never gone against Sue's desires but always agreed that you were excited by them and gone along with them. I hope you can see now that this is not a good strategy for you and it seems even Sue is asking for more feedback / pushback to guide her in her dominance of you. It is not an act of defiance but feedback. What you are playing with is for the excitement of both of you equally overall. Sometimes one or the other may get more out of it but you both need something.
Reading back, I'm not sure that Paul even now is surpassing Robert with Sue, and I'm equally sure she loved him more too. I believe that worked for you at the time only because you didn't see it and hear it. I believe it would have hurt you to have done so and perhaps have diminished you a little with Sue had you fully witnessed it and not shown yourself to have been hurt. So, on the issue of you spending time with them when Paul is around I think it would help you both if most of the time Sue was at his place without you, or at least ended up there if you were out together. It would help her 'separation' issues, and it would more sharply point out to you that on those days she is with Paul. That you are not part of their time by virtue of being there and watching. If you are there I think Sue needs to somehow include herself in your relief during the time. Maybe a hand job or an end point blowjob as she has done but something showing Paul and you that your pleasure means something to her too. A meaningful gesture.
The evolution over the next few months is going to be very interesting. I thank you once again for being open enough to share even the difficult moments too.
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Thanks STB for your post and it is good to see you discussing things with Sue.
However, I tend to agree more with Paul. If you remember, sometimes ago I did ask you a question if the denial was a game for you or has it become serious and you told me that it has become serious.In my humble opinion, you must make all efforts to turn it into a game again. You should take this question further and ask yourself "Has relationship with Paul become something she can't do without? Has she turned serious?" As we all know all our collective thinking that Paul is a human dildo (as she convinced you in beginning) was not the case. She has seriously developed feelings for Paul as is evident from narrative. I know that you were quite influenced by Rick and Brenda's story - but we don't know how that story ended. Moreover none of the Brenda's relationship lasted beyond a couple of months.That's what I also suggest to you. Make love to each other without condom atleast once a month if not more.
When Sue tells you that you need to force her, she is very right - you indeed need to. Sometimes and whenever you feel like that - do insisit on having her bareback and don't take no for an answer, reminding Sue that she has told you that whenever you will need her bare, she will be there for you. Don't think about if she will enjoy it or not, because she is getting all enjoyment from Paul. I know you love your hand, but as you answered in one of the questions - you do desire Sue as well.So demonstrate that desire to yourself.You need it STB to create and sustain a balance. She would still be cuckolding you most of the times, but she will also love to know that her husband desires her more sometimes and have his way with her. That will also stop the emotional escalation of relationship between Sue and Paul.
Also, when you have a threesome with Paul, do insist that you be made a participant instead of just an onlooker. You may watch and then you should have a turn with her - a turn as good as Paul. You need to remind all the three of you that which relationship is primary, no matter who is the cuckold in the relationship. I really request you STB to consider this for your own good. After all it's just a game - and you can make all the rules. And if she is not planning to give Paul all of herself, she too must agree to this.
However, I tend to agree more with Paul. If you remember, sometimes ago I did ask you a question if the denial was a game for you or has it become serious and you told me that it has become serious.In my humble opinion, you must make all efforts to turn it into a game again. You should take this question further and ask yourself "Has relationship with Paul become something she can't do without? Has she turned serious?" As we all know all our collective thinking that Paul is a human dildo (as she convinced you in beginning) was not the case. She has seriously developed feelings for Paul as is evident from narrative. I know that you were quite influenced by Rick and Brenda's story - but we don't know how that story ended. Moreover none of the Brenda's relationship lasted beyond a couple of months.That's what I also suggest to you. Make love to each other without condom atleast once a month if not more.
When Sue tells you that you need to force her, she is very right - you indeed need to. Sometimes and whenever you feel like that - do insisit on having her bareback and don't take no for an answer, reminding Sue that she has told you that whenever you will need her bare, she will be there for you. Don't think about if she will enjoy it or not, because she is getting all enjoyment from Paul. I know you love your hand, but as you answered in one of the questions - you do desire Sue as well.So demonstrate that desire to yourself.You need it STB to create and sustain a balance. She would still be cuckolding you most of the times, but she will also love to know that her husband desires her more sometimes and have his way with her. That will also stop the emotional escalation of relationship between Sue and Paul.
Also, when you have a threesome with Paul, do insist that you be made a participant instead of just an onlooker. You may watch and then you should have a turn with her - a turn as good as Paul. You need to remind all the three of you that which relationship is primary, no matter who is the cuckold in the relationship. I really request you STB to consider this for your own good. After all it's just a game - and you can make all the rules. And if she is not planning to give Paul all of herself, she too must agree to this.
Since your post 122 I have been expecting someone else to make this observation but since no-one has spoken, I have to say that I think it would be a mistake to cut back Paul’s time with Sue. He does get much more and better sex than you but that is still not an excessive amount. In fact I think he is right on the limit of it being worthwhile for him to remain sexually exclusive to her. Surely a far better solution would be for Sue to increase your sex ration rather than reduce the incidence of his. Paul is the motor that currently drives your beta situation and I think that cutting back on his share could upset the whole equilibrium.
I may be mistaken (or maybe you have just left it unreported) but I get the impression that over the last several months, you have seldom gone down on your wife without a cream pie being involved. I see this as more a continuation of her sex with him than an intimate re-connection with you. Perhaps you would benefit by indulging in this act between times for the pure emotional pleasure that it brings.
I may be mistaken (or maybe you have just left it unreported) but I get the impression that over the last several months, you have seldom gone down on your wife without a cream pie being involved. I see this as more a continuation of her sex with him than an intimate re-connection with you. Perhaps you would benefit by indulging in this act between times for the pure emotional pleasure that it brings.
Raks - you have a point and I"d read your post much earlier today and indirectly it led to an interesting conversation with Sue earlier today where she asked me whether I needed to feel that I miss more with her than cumming in her. She teased me quite pointedly reminding me that "beta-guys don't get that" and that she liked that we'd agreed that would still be something that she and Paul would continue to share. During the short conversation that followed she repeated what she'd said the other day which was very much what UK has ended his post with almost exactly - which was that sharing herself with me after she's been with Paul is something she wants to feel more at ease doing. She said that we can have sex some of the times if I want to or, as UK put it, as an extension of her time with Paul.
Having read both Raks and UK's post before our chat this morning after breakfast when we talked about the day, I replied to her that I would like it if we'd get to spend more time together at times other than after she's been with Paul and that even if we didn't fuck, that we could still be sexual with each other and I pretty much told her that while I still enjoy being the "beta guy", that I felt that still having some of her attention and desire would be something that I think would be good for us. We talked and she said "so we wouldn't have to have intercourse?" (I can tell when she's serious - she uses the proper nouns) and I said "not if you didn't want to" and then added that at times I would still like to make her "feel good in other ways" and she smiled and said that it sounded like something that might be fun but then asked me how often I was thinking about this and I think I surprised the heck out of her when I said that I didn't know but maybe every few weeks or so? She seemed to gush at that thought and she pulled me into this massive hug and kiss and she said that sounded wonderful and that she thought it would be a lot of fun and that she was sure that would be a good thing for both of us.
The day flew by but come 5pm and sunset the bottles of wine were opened and she told me that while she had originally wanted to be horny for Paul tomorrow, that her thoughts had changed after our talk earlier and now the calm romantic moment sitting in front of the slider door with the curtains open looking at the colors of the sunset while we drank. She lay down on the couch and let me go down on her - taking her jeans and panties off - and then after making her cum she ran bottomless up to our bedroom where I came in finding her lying on her back - this time naked and spread wide for me! I stripped as she watched and I moved to the side of the bed and she reached for my cock and sucked me till I was hard. The whole time she lay there with her legs spread wide allowing and encouraging my fingers to play with and pleasure her. I admit it was a thrill to see her pussy glowing red and almost dripping with wetness for me this time. She didn't even notice that I slipped the condom on when I pulled out of her mouth. And yes, in an alpha moment I slapped her butt gently and motioned for her to move to her knees for me. I"m proud to say that I took her hips in my hands and I enjoyed sex with my wife immensely!!!! It had been a while since I'd had her in this position and it was amazing to feel her go from tight to open as I fucked her. But we both knew what we both wanted. After she'd cum and moaned loudly into her pillow she slid forward and turned onto her back and welcomed me to take her. I surely had an alpha cock for a while there as I enjoyed the shit out of her and she screamed and came along for the ride, literally. She moaned loudly and I felt her body spasm a moment before I let go and ground myself against her till I was satisfied. She was motionless when I pulled out so it was up to me to take care of the condom and not make a mess.
Needless to say, a late dinner was in order - and right now she's watching the end of a chick-flick before joining me in our bed tonight.
Having read both Raks and UK's post before our chat this morning after breakfast when we talked about the day, I replied to her that I would like it if we'd get to spend more time together at times other than after she's been with Paul and that even if we didn't fuck, that we could still be sexual with each other and I pretty much told her that while I still enjoy being the "beta guy", that I felt that still having some of her attention and desire would be something that I think would be good for us. We talked and she said "so we wouldn't have to have intercourse?" (I can tell when she's serious - she uses the proper nouns) and I said "not if you didn't want to" and then added that at times I would still like to make her "feel good in other ways" and she smiled and said that it sounded like something that might be fun but then asked me how often I was thinking about this and I think I surprised the heck out of her when I said that I didn't know but maybe every few weeks or so? She seemed to gush at that thought and she pulled me into this massive hug and kiss and she said that sounded wonderful and that she thought it would be a lot of fun and that she was sure that would be a good thing for both of us.
The day flew by but come 5pm and sunset the bottles of wine were opened and she told me that while she had originally wanted to be horny for Paul tomorrow, that her thoughts had changed after our talk earlier and now the calm romantic moment sitting in front of the slider door with the curtains open looking at the colors of the sunset while we drank. She lay down on the couch and let me go down on her - taking her jeans and panties off - and then after making her cum she ran bottomless up to our bedroom where I came in finding her lying on her back - this time naked and spread wide for me! I stripped as she watched and I moved to the side of the bed and she reached for my cock and sucked me till I was hard. The whole time she lay there with her legs spread wide allowing and encouraging my fingers to play with and pleasure her. I admit it was a thrill to see her pussy glowing red and almost dripping with wetness for me this time. She didn't even notice that I slipped the condom on when I pulled out of her mouth. And yes, in an alpha moment I slapped her butt gently and motioned for her to move to her knees for me. I"m proud to say that I took her hips in my hands and I enjoyed sex with my wife immensely!!!! It had been a while since I'd had her in this position and it was amazing to feel her go from tight to open as I fucked her. But we both knew what we both wanted. After she'd cum and moaned loudly into her pillow she slid forward and turned onto her back and welcomed me to take her. I surely had an alpha cock for a while there as I enjoyed the shit out of her and she screamed and came along for the ride, literally. She moaned loudly and I felt her body spasm a moment before I let go and ground myself against her till I was satisfied. She was motionless when I pulled out so it was up to me to take care of the condom and not make a mess.
Needless to say, a late dinner was in order - and right now she's watching the end of a chick-flick before joining me in our bed tonight.
Good to see You getting into groove with Sue. But STB you missed my point. (And Peak's point also) Let me be clearer.
Don't grant any kind of exclusivity to Sue and Paul without any time limit. I will explain - Let Sue be exclusive with Paul. Let alone Paul come in her. But for a while only. (Just like Rick and Brenda....) After a month ..you also need to come in her. Isn't two months exclusivity enough? Until and unless you bring this balance into your relationship, I am afraid the message wouldn't reach across. (to Sue and Paul)
From your description, it is quite clear that both of you do enjoy each other. May be you are unable to offer Sue the earth shattering orgasms that Paul is able to, but I am sure you are still not a wimp when it comes to bedroom skills. Then why deny yourself and Sue the intimacy? So yes, offer her exclusivity in terms of having bare sex with Paul for a month and then have a day of your own (And that day should be your choice, not hers) in a month to have bareback sex with Sue as well with you cumming inside her. if mat all you want to be a "beta", do perform clean up duties for Sue, everytime you are there when they make love.
I still wonder the reason why Sue wants it bareback all the times with Paul and you with Condom? What is it that she gets out of this except may be a little control - and I wonder if that control is worth sacrificing love and relationship. It is strange that she hugs you when you tell her that you are OK with not cumming in her. She should have hugged you, Sorry, in fact given the kind of roller coaster that you are undergoing she should have insisted on you having her bareback to mend things. It seems that she is so absorbed in the game, that it's no more a game for her and has become a reality. That she has not offered you and instead is seemingly becoming happier when you are telling her that you can do without coming in her and you want her just once in two weeks. These, dear Steve, are signs of a woman in love (may be not love, infatuated certainly, hooked surely) with someone else.....and that someone, my dear STB is not you!
Don't grant any kind of exclusivity to Sue and Paul without any time limit. I will explain - Let Sue be exclusive with Paul. Let alone Paul come in her. But for a while only. (Just like Rick and Brenda....) After a month ..you also need to come in her. Isn't two months exclusivity enough? Until and unless you bring this balance into your relationship, I am afraid the message wouldn't reach across. (to Sue and Paul)
From your description, it is quite clear that both of you do enjoy each other. May be you are unable to offer Sue the earth shattering orgasms that Paul is able to, but I am sure you are still not a wimp when it comes to bedroom skills. Then why deny yourself and Sue the intimacy? So yes, offer her exclusivity in terms of having bare sex with Paul for a month and then have a day of your own (And that day should be your choice, not hers) in a month to have bareback sex with Sue as well with you cumming inside her. if mat all you want to be a "beta", do perform clean up duties for Sue, everytime you are there when they make love.
I still wonder the reason why Sue wants it bareback all the times with Paul and you with Condom? What is it that she gets out of this except may be a little control - and I wonder if that control is worth sacrificing love and relationship. It is strange that she hugs you when you tell her that you are OK with not cumming in her. She should have hugged you, Sorry, in fact given the kind of roller coaster that you are undergoing she should have insisted on you having her bareback to mend things. It seems that she is so absorbed in the game, that it's no more a game for her and has become a reality. That she has not offered you and instead is seemingly becoming happier when you are telling her that you can do without coming in her and you want her just once in two weeks. These, dear Steve, are signs of a woman in love (may be not love, infatuated certainly, hooked surely) with someone else.....and that someone, my dear STB is not you!
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Steve,
So that's it now. The only thing that was wrong between you and Sue up to and after the ski weekend was that she failed to talk to you enough before making love to Paul again before your time with her?
She now feels confident enough already to ask if there is anything further she can deny you whilst ensuring that any chance of more complete reconnection is eliminated. The mercy fuck she tossed you earlier does not make up for the growing chasm of sexual and emotional bonding that now exists between you but which you either cannot see or choose to ignore because on some narrow definition you remain excited by denial. Like Nero, you are literally fiddling while Rome burns around you. What more evidence do you need that Sue's growing and deepening attachment to Paul is a real and present threat to your marriage?
So that's it now. The only thing that was wrong between you and Sue up to and after the ski weekend was that she failed to talk to you enough before making love to Paul again before your time with her?
She now feels confident enough already to ask if there is anything further she can deny you whilst ensuring that any chance of more complete reconnection is eliminated. The mercy fuck she tossed you earlier does not make up for the growing chasm of sexual and emotional bonding that now exists between you but which you either cannot see or choose to ignore because on some narrow definition you remain excited by denial. Like Nero, you are literally fiddling while Rome burns around you. What more evidence do you need that Sue's growing and deepening attachment to Paul is a real and present threat to your marriage?
So - yes, she is hooked on Paul. I'd read Raks comments earlier yesterday but hadn't seen Peak's till later yesterday afternoon.
So, hooked on Paul, it was pushed in my face yesterday when she was a bit moody and when I asked why she said that Paul was going to a SuperBowl pre-party and wasn't going to be coming by yesterday. I told her that I was a little surprised that she wanted to see him after the fun we'd had together and she said that she was hoping for a quickie with him if nothing else.
I admit that it was a little hard to hear but that in some ways I knew it was happening. But when she said to me that she wanted to have sex with him yesterday and I asked her why after the night before with me, she said that while it had been good, that she still wanted to have some fun with him. When I pushed her a bit more she did come out and say it - that after all this time, that after all of my desires and us acting on them, that she said to me that she wants it more with him than me right now. She said that she's really gotten into how it feels with him and that right now she enjoyed sex with him a lot.
I know - I know - warning and danger and all of that - and yes, what everyone here predicted. But no, it's not all gloom and doom. We talked more and she said the sex with me was good and even "great" but that she also felt she had to admit that she really enjoyed it with Paul. I asked her honestly if it was that he cums in her and I don't. She said "that's part of it" and admitted that feeling that with Paul now for so long has been something she's come to look forward to very much. I offered to do her without a condom and she said "no, that's not it" and it led into a bigger discussion.
We talked about a lot of stuff. She said to me that she knows that my using a condom with her gives me the feelings that I've wanted to feel. She was the one who said to me "it makes it feel edgy for you" and then she said it.... "and I know it turns you on that Paul gets something with me that you don't and that really turns you on". Then she looked at me and said "but it's more than that, isn't it?" and she asked me if I was truly happy with the beta-thing that I'd started. She held my hands and she looked at me and said that it's okay if it turns me on and she said that she understands that peoples desires and turn-on's change over time. She smiled and said to me that "mine have changed too baby but it's okay". It was a little awkward at first but I did tell her that it still turned me on to be taking a beta-role with her. She asked me what that meant and I said that what I think I've come to feel is that I enjoy her being in control and that I still enjoy taking a "second place" with her sexually. But before she could answer anything I told her (again) what someone here had posted - that it's being a beta-sexually that I am into but not being a beta-emotionally. She was quiet at that and I continued and said that while I enjoyed the torment of being denied her sexually, that I didn't want to feel I was taking a back-seat emotionally and I told her that some of how she's acting lately had me questioning this.
For a bit - the conversation devolved into her professing that it's only sexual and physical with Paul but as we talked she did admit that she has feelings for him. Not love by any means and she proceeded to tell me how she feels little to no interest in his family life or anything else going on in his life - and said "that's different for me" and admitted that she had felt much more emotional about Robert and at other times before then with Brad coming up in her discussion. And she came out and said to me that "it's just a lot of fun between us" and then said "you saw that when we were away didn't you?". I told her that sometimes it was hard for me to not feel enough emotionally from her and at the same time see and know she's with Paul and I suppose, isn't thinking of me at all then.
She asked me why I'd gotten so upset after the ski weekend and asked me again if things hadn't been okay that weekend. She told me that "you got to see me do everything we normally do together" and then asked "why are you so concerned all of a sudden?". It wasn't accusatory but more trying to understand. I told her that going from the extreme of the ski weekend and then not having "us time" had made it seem like things were out of control for me and that wasn't part of what I had wanted to feel and that I guessed I just needed some alone time with her. She apologized for being too insensitive about that and agreed as she'd already said, that she was sorry for missing that. Our talk weaved back to my beta-desires and us using condoms. She asked me pointedly "do you miss cumming in me?". And before I asked her she said that she knew it turned me on to use condoms with her but that she wanted me to try to explain to her whether the pleasure I got from using them was better than cumming in her. I told her that I did miss it but then I told her that most of the time when we have sex, that for me when we use condoms now, that it's really very satisfying for me. I tried to explain to her how it made me feel good to deny myself that pleasure and how I couldn't explain it any more than that. I guess I was pretty emotional because at one point she handed me a tissue and I realized my eyes had teared-up.
I told her how I loved feeling as if i wanted her even more by denying myself. She kissed me and asked me how it felt to not have cum in her (except for those few times) now in over a year. I told her honestly that it scared me a lot but at the same time it was something that really turned me on and I told her that while it did kill me inside a bit, that at the same time it made me feel exhilarated to think about it. She said she could tell and that she could tell how it made me feel and that she says she can feel how intense it is for me when we do have sex. She said she can feel how my body feels and how I respond when I cum and she looked at me and said "I know how it makes you feel". As we talked she told me in the most loving way I could imagine was that "it's okay baby, I understand". She said that it was hard to figure out at first but over the past few months she said some of what she'd said in the past - that she didn't want to change how I felt if it was truly how I felt but that she wanted to know how to make it better for me and she said she now understood a lot more about it and that she apologized for not seeing it and not realizing how hard the ski-weekend might have been for me. I told her that it wasn't that the weekend was so hard but that it left me wanting her and I'd thought she'd wanted that too.
Well, it was her turn to say some things that I wasn't fully ready for. She said that she always wanted me and never wanted to share her life with another man but she can't say that about her sexuality any more and that like it or not, my beta-desires and all the years of her enjoying other men have changed her desires. She told me that if anything she loves me more in so many ways (not sexual) that I've let her find this part of herself. She admitted that she'd long felt reluctance to enjoy herself with other men and admitted to feeling conflicted for a long time in her feeling like she was enjoying herself for her own desires than just because it turned me on. But she said that starting with how I changed when she was seeing Robert - that was when she felt herself changing. She looked at me and said that "you did change when I was seeing Robert" and she told me that it wasn't just how I behaved, it was how I responded to the things she'd told me. She also said that she thought I did much better with all of this when I wasn't there with them. She told me that she's felt so much of what she feels with Paul now that she'd felt with Robert. She looked at me and said "sweetie, do you remember at one point I told you I'd seriously thought about whether I could have another baby" and she said that even though it wasn't something that could happen, she said she remembered being surprised at how I'd responded at the time and she said that it was something she'd remembered.
She told me again what she's told me before. That she's come to enjoy and want sex with Paul now and that she's letting herself go with what I've said I've wanted, that she should look to him for her sexual satisfaction and she asked me if I still felt that I wanted that "is that still what you want to feel as the beta?". I didn't answer her but instead said that I wanted her to look to me for her emotional satisfaction. She smiled and hugged me and said she understood that and she promised me that she would be much more aware. But she asked me again, is that still what you want though? I asked her how it made her feel if i were to say yes. She smiled and said "I think you want to say yes but that you are scared to". I nodded and told her she was right. She was very close to me as we talked and she said "baby, it's just sex - it's not my love for you that we're talking about, it's just sex". I told her that it wasn't just sex and that she shouldn't kid herself either. She was quiet for a few moments and then said "you're right". And what followed was her taking a few minutes to express to me how she feels now being able to let herself go and really enjoy sex with Paul without having to worry about what I was thinking or what I wanted. She said that she loved that when she was with him, that she'd now accepted that what I wanted was for her to truly give all of herself to him for that time together. She looked at me and said "isn't that what you want?". It wasn't as hard as I thought to nod my head yes. She looked at me and said that I will just have to believe her that she's aware of what she's doing and that she hasn't changed anything in how she's thinking recently, again pointing back to her with Robert as when her thinking seemed to change.
She looked at me and said "what about the other things that we talked about?" and she proceeded to ask me "we talked at one point about letting things go further with Paul for a little while?" and I knew what she'd meant and I just said "yeah" and then I said "I think it's just a lot all at once". I told her that all of that was really still based on it still feeling good and right between us and she totally agreed with that and said that she would limit her time with Paul until we got all of this sorted out. I guess I raised my eyebrows or whatever because she replied and said "he understands we are having a bit of a rough patch" and then she added "you didn't expect me to stop seeing him, did you?". I guess that would have been unrealistic so I just kind of shook my head no and that I guess that is really a change in her that shes' quite forceful about. And the reality is, I don't mind - I didn't mind if he'd wanted to stop by for a quickie with her. In a way, a quickie would be easier in some ways right now. But I didn't say that because she continued to tell me that she'd really begun to enjoy sex a lot with Paul "not that it wasn't good before...." she giggled but said that recently she'd really found herself feeling comfortable with him - largely starting that fateful weekend here at our house. She proceeded to tell me that she wasn't sure if she's ever felt this sexually alive and horny before. The teasing and denial that we are practicing, she says, really makes the time with Paul that much more intense for her. And she told me very pointedly that him being the only one to cum in her now for so long has really made sex with him something that feels markedly different than anything else. At one point I could tell she was in a serious place when she told me that it turned her on to know that as a woman, only her lover has truly had her intimately for so long now. She asked me how that made me feel to know she felt that way - that she hasn't felt that intimacy with me (well, not as much she did clarify). I told her just what I'd said above and before - that as long as I felt I wasn't losing her emotionally - and I hesitated as I said this and she knew it - I told her that as long as I felt confident and comfortable emotionally, that I was scared to admit that it turned me on to think about it. She asked me if that was part of what made me feel fulfilled, knowing that I've given that up to Paul. I told her I was scared to say yes. She hugged me and said that she understood and that I didn't have to say it if I didn't want to but that she understood it was something that scared me as well as turned me on. She told me that it gave her a wicked and erotic feeling to know what she/we are doing and she admitted that the taboo-ness of it turned her on even more sometimes. "Knowing I'm giving it to Paul and that you won't have me sometimes turns me on a lot" and she turned to me and said that it scares her too sometimes - but she immediately added "but knowing you are there for me" somehow makes it okay.
I know we didn't get anywhere in terms of conclusions and that I was distracted a bit once the game started last night, and even though we didn't have sex yesterday - neither of us were in the mood after talking so much - we both admitted in bed last night as we cuddled up that we needed to talk and communicate even more and I admitted that I should be more forceful when I'm not feeling comfortable. She snuggled into me and said again how sorry she was that she had stopped seeing all of me and she giggled and said "I need to remember there's more to you than just this guy" and she reached behind her to cup my now hard cock. She turned her head to me and said if I needed to masturbate that I could if I wanted but I told her no, that I wanted to wait and she smiled and as she snuggled back into me she admitted that she liked feeling it hard against her knowing I was horny about her.
I'm sure that it still seems like we're out of control to Peak and Raks - but it doesn't to me. While we didn't reach any conclusions and there's still more she said at other times, all the same - I know that I felt genuine love and concern as we talked and seeming like a genuine awareness of maybe something that's been lacking between us recently. Only time will tell how she feels and whether this was all for real or just lip-service. One thing, she is becoming the aggressor and more dominant one between us. She's said this before that she is enjoying feeling more control. I didn't tell her (yet) that her control seems to be spreading to more than just sex but that is sure to come.
She did again tell me that she's going to limit time with Paul until we get this sorted out.
So, hooked on Paul, it was pushed in my face yesterday when she was a bit moody and when I asked why she said that Paul was going to a SuperBowl pre-party and wasn't going to be coming by yesterday. I told her that I was a little surprised that she wanted to see him after the fun we'd had together and she said that she was hoping for a quickie with him if nothing else.
I admit that it was a little hard to hear but that in some ways I knew it was happening. But when she said to me that she wanted to have sex with him yesterday and I asked her why after the night before with me, she said that while it had been good, that she still wanted to have some fun with him. When I pushed her a bit more she did come out and say it - that after all this time, that after all of my desires and us acting on them, that she said to me that she wants it more with him than me right now. She said that she's really gotten into how it feels with him and that right now she enjoyed sex with him a lot.
I know - I know - warning and danger and all of that - and yes, what everyone here predicted. But no, it's not all gloom and doom. We talked more and she said the sex with me was good and even "great" but that she also felt she had to admit that she really enjoyed it with Paul. I asked her honestly if it was that he cums in her and I don't. She said "that's part of it" and admitted that feeling that with Paul now for so long has been something she's come to look forward to very much. I offered to do her without a condom and she said "no, that's not it" and it led into a bigger discussion.
We talked about a lot of stuff. She said to me that she knows that my using a condom with her gives me the feelings that I've wanted to feel. She was the one who said to me "it makes it feel edgy for you" and then she said it.... "and I know it turns you on that Paul gets something with me that you don't and that really turns you on". Then she looked at me and said "but it's more than that, isn't it?" and she asked me if I was truly happy with the beta-thing that I'd started. She held my hands and she looked at me and said that it's okay if it turns me on and she said that she understands that peoples desires and turn-on's change over time. She smiled and said to me that "mine have changed too baby but it's okay". It was a little awkward at first but I did tell her that it still turned me on to be taking a beta-role with her. She asked me what that meant and I said that what I think I've come to feel is that I enjoy her being in control and that I still enjoy taking a "second place" with her sexually. But before she could answer anything I told her (again) what someone here had posted - that it's being a beta-sexually that I am into but not being a beta-emotionally. She was quiet at that and I continued and said that while I enjoyed the torment of being denied her sexually, that I didn't want to feel I was taking a back-seat emotionally and I told her that some of how she's acting lately had me questioning this.
For a bit - the conversation devolved into her professing that it's only sexual and physical with Paul but as we talked she did admit that she has feelings for him. Not love by any means and she proceeded to tell me how she feels little to no interest in his family life or anything else going on in his life - and said "that's different for me" and admitted that she had felt much more emotional about Robert and at other times before then with Brad coming up in her discussion. And she came out and said to me that "it's just a lot of fun between us" and then said "you saw that when we were away didn't you?". I told her that sometimes it was hard for me to not feel enough emotionally from her and at the same time see and know she's with Paul and I suppose, isn't thinking of me at all then.
She asked me why I'd gotten so upset after the ski weekend and asked me again if things hadn't been okay that weekend. She told me that "you got to see me do everything we normally do together" and then asked "why are you so concerned all of a sudden?". It wasn't accusatory but more trying to understand. I told her that going from the extreme of the ski weekend and then not having "us time" had made it seem like things were out of control for me and that wasn't part of what I had wanted to feel and that I guessed I just needed some alone time with her. She apologized for being too insensitive about that and agreed as she'd already said, that she was sorry for missing that. Our talk weaved back to my beta-desires and us using condoms. She asked me pointedly "do you miss cumming in me?". And before I asked her she said that she knew it turned me on to use condoms with her but that she wanted me to try to explain to her whether the pleasure I got from using them was better than cumming in her. I told her that I did miss it but then I told her that most of the time when we have sex, that for me when we use condoms now, that it's really very satisfying for me. I tried to explain to her how it made me feel good to deny myself that pleasure and how I couldn't explain it any more than that. I guess I was pretty emotional because at one point she handed me a tissue and I realized my eyes had teared-up.
I told her how I loved feeling as if i wanted her even more by denying myself. She kissed me and asked me how it felt to not have cum in her (except for those few times) now in over a year. I told her honestly that it scared me a lot but at the same time it was something that really turned me on and I told her that while it did kill me inside a bit, that at the same time it made me feel exhilarated to think about it. She said she could tell and that she could tell how it made me feel and that she says she can feel how intense it is for me when we do have sex. She said she can feel how my body feels and how I respond when I cum and she looked at me and said "I know how it makes you feel". As we talked she told me in the most loving way I could imagine was that "it's okay baby, I understand". She said that it was hard to figure out at first but over the past few months she said some of what she'd said in the past - that she didn't want to change how I felt if it was truly how I felt but that she wanted to know how to make it better for me and she said she now understood a lot more about it and that she apologized for not seeing it and not realizing how hard the ski-weekend might have been for me. I told her that it wasn't that the weekend was so hard but that it left me wanting her and I'd thought she'd wanted that too.
Well, it was her turn to say some things that I wasn't fully ready for. She said that she always wanted me and never wanted to share her life with another man but she can't say that about her sexuality any more and that like it or not, my beta-desires and all the years of her enjoying other men have changed her desires. She told me that if anything she loves me more in so many ways (not sexual) that I've let her find this part of herself. She admitted that she'd long felt reluctance to enjoy herself with other men and admitted to feeling conflicted for a long time in her feeling like she was enjoying herself for her own desires than just because it turned me on. But she said that starting with how I changed when she was seeing Robert - that was when she felt herself changing. She looked at me and said that "you did change when I was seeing Robert" and she told me that it wasn't just how I behaved, it was how I responded to the things she'd told me. She also said that she thought I did much better with all of this when I wasn't there with them. She told me that she's felt so much of what she feels with Paul now that she'd felt with Robert. She looked at me and said "sweetie, do you remember at one point I told you I'd seriously thought about whether I could have another baby" and she said that even though it wasn't something that could happen, she said she remembered being surprised at how I'd responded at the time and she said that it was something she'd remembered.
She told me again what she's told me before. That she's come to enjoy and want sex with Paul now and that she's letting herself go with what I've said I've wanted, that she should look to him for her sexual satisfaction and she asked me if I still felt that I wanted that "is that still what you want to feel as the beta?". I didn't answer her but instead said that I wanted her to look to me for her emotional satisfaction. She smiled and hugged me and said she understood that and she promised me that she would be much more aware. But she asked me again, is that still what you want though? I asked her how it made her feel if i were to say yes. She smiled and said "I think you want to say yes but that you are scared to". I nodded and told her she was right. She was very close to me as we talked and she said "baby, it's just sex - it's not my love for you that we're talking about, it's just sex". I told her that it wasn't just sex and that she shouldn't kid herself either. She was quiet for a few moments and then said "you're right". And what followed was her taking a few minutes to express to me how she feels now being able to let herself go and really enjoy sex with Paul without having to worry about what I was thinking or what I wanted. She said that she loved that when she was with him, that she'd now accepted that what I wanted was for her to truly give all of herself to him for that time together. She looked at me and said "isn't that what you want?". It wasn't as hard as I thought to nod my head yes. She looked at me and said that I will just have to believe her that she's aware of what she's doing and that she hasn't changed anything in how she's thinking recently, again pointing back to her with Robert as when her thinking seemed to change.
She looked at me and said "what about the other things that we talked about?" and she proceeded to ask me "we talked at one point about letting things go further with Paul for a little while?" and I knew what she'd meant and I just said "yeah" and then I said "I think it's just a lot all at once". I told her that all of that was really still based on it still feeling good and right between us and she totally agreed with that and said that she would limit her time with Paul until we got all of this sorted out. I guess I raised my eyebrows or whatever because she replied and said "he understands we are having a bit of a rough patch" and then she added "you didn't expect me to stop seeing him, did you?". I guess that would have been unrealistic so I just kind of shook my head no and that I guess that is really a change in her that shes' quite forceful about. And the reality is, I don't mind - I didn't mind if he'd wanted to stop by for a quickie with her. In a way, a quickie would be easier in some ways right now. But I didn't say that because she continued to tell me that she'd really begun to enjoy sex a lot with Paul "not that it wasn't good before...." she giggled but said that recently she'd really found herself feeling comfortable with him - largely starting that fateful weekend here at our house. She proceeded to tell me that she wasn't sure if she's ever felt this sexually alive and horny before. The teasing and denial that we are practicing, she says, really makes the time with Paul that much more intense for her. And she told me very pointedly that him being the only one to cum in her now for so long has really made sex with him something that feels markedly different than anything else. At one point I could tell she was in a serious place when she told me that it turned her on to know that as a woman, only her lover has truly had her intimately for so long now. She asked me how that made me feel to know she felt that way - that she hasn't felt that intimacy with me (well, not as much she did clarify). I told her just what I'd said above and before - that as long as I felt I wasn't losing her emotionally - and I hesitated as I said this and she knew it - I told her that as long as I felt confident and comfortable emotionally, that I was scared to admit that it turned me on to think about it. She asked me if that was part of what made me feel fulfilled, knowing that I've given that up to Paul. I told her I was scared to say yes. She hugged me and said that she understood and that I didn't have to say it if I didn't want to but that she understood it was something that scared me as well as turned me on. She told me that it gave her a wicked and erotic feeling to know what she/we are doing and she admitted that the taboo-ness of it turned her on even more sometimes. "Knowing I'm giving it to Paul and that you won't have me sometimes turns me on a lot" and she turned to me and said that it scares her too sometimes - but she immediately added "but knowing you are there for me" somehow makes it okay.
I know we didn't get anywhere in terms of conclusions and that I was distracted a bit once the game started last night, and even though we didn't have sex yesterday - neither of us were in the mood after talking so much - we both admitted in bed last night as we cuddled up that we needed to talk and communicate even more and I admitted that I should be more forceful when I'm not feeling comfortable. She snuggled into me and said again how sorry she was that she had stopped seeing all of me and she giggled and said "I need to remember there's more to you than just this guy" and she reached behind her to cup my now hard cock. She turned her head to me and said if I needed to masturbate that I could if I wanted but I told her no, that I wanted to wait and she smiled and as she snuggled back into me she admitted that she liked feeling it hard against her knowing I was horny about her.
I'm sure that it still seems like we're out of control to Peak and Raks - but it doesn't to me. While we didn't reach any conclusions and there's still more she said at other times, all the same - I know that I felt genuine love and concern as we talked and seeming like a genuine awareness of maybe something that's been lacking between us recently. Only time will tell how she feels and whether this was all for real or just lip-service. One thing, she is becoming the aggressor and more dominant one between us. She's said this before that she is enjoying feeling more control. I didn't tell her (yet) that her control seems to be spreading to more than just sex but that is sure to come.
She did again tell me that she's going to limit time with Paul until we get this sorted out.
STB, thanks for sharing these intimate details with us. But Steve, if you can't pull the plug now, you will never be able to. Do you still see her as a loving wife? Or a a cruel and cold cuckoldress? What happened to her promises that she made during your journey? Isn't she going back on all she promised to you. Its really painful to see your marriage going down the drain. A loving wife would have yielded seeing you in so much pain, but not Sue. It seems she is enjoying yoi in pain. Good luck stb on this slippery path. Reading your thread is becoming very painful.
Raks - I think the thing I'm feeling now is that I don't want to pull the plug. I can't explain it but while our talks have been very deep and revealing, they've still left me with the feeling that I do still want to be the beta for her and that I feel that I do believe her when she says that she knows how she's feeling and that she doesn't feel we are in jeopardy, which I know you and others here disagree with.
I guess what it really means is that I have to be honest with myself and accept that maybe I truly have changed and that this is what I want now. In so many ways I feel awesome in how things are between us and yes, even though we have less sex and that may even decrease more in the future, I still feel so aroused by it all and even excited by it. I don't know that I am fully grasping it all and that I know that over time I am sure to have points in time when I'm going to regret things.
I am not jumping into the deep end of the pool just yet, I do want to see that she changes as she's said she is and that she is good to her word in terms of how she treats me and what she wants to feel she can share with me. I still think that is one of our stumbling points that we need to square away - how she feels about continuing to share what she is doing with me and how she shares it with me.
The thing I do come back to is that if what she says is true, that she doesn't feel emotionally tied to him, just physically - that then her argument and perspective with me is accurate - if I want to be the beta/sub for her - then I need to stop fighting it and let her experience Paul as she wants to even if it is at some point to the exclusion of me. We DID talk about that in the past and we were both aware that it is something that is likely in our future - and I can accept that as she says it - that when it happens that it'll be something we are both ready for - but she admits that until we resolve some things between us that led to our current rough-spot, that it is still something in the future.
In a way she's right. She asked me honestly and I answered her honestly - right now the intensity of the pleasure I get from using condoms with her is amazing and yes, feels better deep inside to me that feeling her bare skin. She admitted that for her - knowing this is a distinct difference between Paul and I - that she says she still feels it is a beautiful gift for me to give to her to share with Paul - and she admits openly to me that it makes her relationship with Paul take on a different feeling. And she says that it's been so long now - she says it's something that she's come to feel on her own and that she enjoys having it as a difference between us. that plus she says it gives her the sexiest feelings when she thinks about it.
For me - in the past few days I guess it really has been her pointing out that it's now well over a year since I have been regularly cumming in her and that while it was something we both said we wanted to play with, the reality of it is now, almost 14 months later after starting it all, that she is right in a way to feel that it's something that we should probably assume is now truly a part of our norm between us. I have to admit that thinking that it's really been that long leaves me to feel a bit humble in a way that what I had in some ways fantasized about so intensely for so long is now a truth.
I know a lot of people here are going to condemn me for all of this and say "see we warned you" - but at the same time I cannot tell you how wicked hard my cock is right now thinking that I've only been truly intimate with Sue just 4 or 5 times - just a few teaspoons of my cum - vs what must be hundreds of times now for Paul. That thought and knowledge turns me on amazingly - and I think, until it no longer does or no longer arouses me as it does - that this may just be how we stay for a good part of this year or longer. And yes, don't think for a moment that I don't have some regret and even aversion to it - but at the same time, I know how my cock throbs and oozes pre-cum when I am with her and I know that we won't be sexual together.. I know, I'm crazy.
I guess what it really means is that I have to be honest with myself and accept that maybe I truly have changed and that this is what I want now. In so many ways I feel awesome in how things are between us and yes, even though we have less sex and that may even decrease more in the future, I still feel so aroused by it all and even excited by it. I don't know that I am fully grasping it all and that I know that over time I am sure to have points in time when I'm going to regret things.
I am not jumping into the deep end of the pool just yet, I do want to see that she changes as she's said she is and that she is good to her word in terms of how she treats me and what she wants to feel she can share with me. I still think that is one of our stumbling points that we need to square away - how she feels about continuing to share what she is doing with me and how she shares it with me.
The thing I do come back to is that if what she says is true, that she doesn't feel emotionally tied to him, just physically - that then her argument and perspective with me is accurate - if I want to be the beta/sub for her - then I need to stop fighting it and let her experience Paul as she wants to even if it is at some point to the exclusion of me. We DID talk about that in the past and we were both aware that it is something that is likely in our future - and I can accept that as she says it - that when it happens that it'll be something we are both ready for - but she admits that until we resolve some things between us that led to our current rough-spot, that it is still something in the future.
In a way she's right. She asked me honestly and I answered her honestly - right now the intensity of the pleasure I get from using condoms with her is amazing and yes, feels better deep inside to me that feeling her bare skin. She admitted that for her - knowing this is a distinct difference between Paul and I - that she says she still feels it is a beautiful gift for me to give to her to share with Paul - and she admits openly to me that it makes her relationship with Paul take on a different feeling. And she says that it's been so long now - she says it's something that she's come to feel on her own and that she enjoys having it as a difference between us. that plus she says it gives her the sexiest feelings when she thinks about it.
For me - in the past few days I guess it really has been her pointing out that it's now well over a year since I have been regularly cumming in her and that while it was something we both said we wanted to play with, the reality of it is now, almost 14 months later after starting it all, that she is right in a way to feel that it's something that we should probably assume is now truly a part of our norm between us. I have to admit that thinking that it's really been that long leaves me to feel a bit humble in a way that what I had in some ways fantasized about so intensely for so long is now a truth.
I know a lot of people here are going to condemn me for all of this and say "see we warned you" - but at the same time I cannot tell you how wicked hard my cock is right now thinking that I've only been truly intimate with Sue just 4 or 5 times - just a few teaspoons of my cum - vs what must be hundreds of times now for Paul. That thought and knowledge turns me on amazingly - and I think, until it no longer does or no longer arouses me as it does - that this may just be how we stay for a good part of this year or longer. And yes, don't think for a moment that I don't have some regret and even aversion to it - but at the same time, I know how my cock throbs and oozes pre-cum when I am with her and I know that we won't be sexual together.. I know, I'm crazy.
Steve, its your life and your choice. Nobody's going to force you to go either way. However, it still amazes me that even after having experienced that physical intimacy will lead to emotional intimacy, you are still willing to take the risk. What happened a few days ago demonstrated that she forgot to think about you4 as equal. And while you label us as gloom and doom sayer, it is bound to happen again. Sue can't help it. Its how humans are made. She gets physically intimate with Paul, she becomes his. More she becomes his, less she is yours. And, believe me when i say this, because like my earlier predictions this is also going to become reality that one fine day you will be out of her life. And the question she will ask you on the day would be same as she is asking now "what did you think would happen?". And all this because your love for denial won't let you think straight.
- Status
