New Year, New Thread

[peakmb]

Steve, I realise that you really want to please Sue and help her make this experience as good as it can be for her, and that this in itself gives you pleasure, but you did both her and yourself a bit of a disservice by not sharing with her the level of your apprehension as you posted here over the weekend. Sue now seems to think that the entry into your experiment went at the right pace, controlled in some way by her grooming of you. Your earlier posts suggests that it all went at a pace that was far closer to the edge than that. Maybe this is your poetic license in giving your side first but if not she really needs to be more aware because she is likely going to ramp up the pace more quickly now that you have started. Possibly to something you are uncomfortable with and then she will be annoyed with you for not saying something earlier. The disaster you both had in February was principally caused by Sue but it was certainly made worse by you not saying anything until it all imploded in your head. You have both agreed that honest communication is the key to both of you getting through this well, so walk the talk.

 

[tegelad]

She spoke volumes in both love and what she needs for you to help her with your fantasy being achieved in reality. One of the things that appears to do it for her is for you to look "younger" and as a girlfriend "friend" equal. I would strongly suggest you look at shaving a lot more temporarily. You should probably talk to her about it, but if you feel "ballsy" enough, you could try to do on your own. Note, I am not a person into fetishizing TS or feminization (it is not my thing at all), but it seems if you were more boyish ... not chest, leg hair etc ... it might help her out. It is important to note this would be a temporary thing, but it couldn't hurt.

You can ask her how it would help her out "downstairs" as part of the discussion .... you are lucky as if I were Paul's shoes and had more influence ... chastity would be suggested to you wife to help you raise your hormones for your ED issues and also to enforce your betaness but I know that isn't your thing ...

I hope that helps (and if not file it away) ... and you are doing fantastic keep up the good work!

 

[dutch12]

It could be a trick of Sue to keep you out of your (hers en Pauls) bedroom, knowing you're embarrassed about your "naked" naked genitals for Paul to see. So what! He soon gets accustomed to that view. He doesn't come over for you but for fucking your wife. Don't be a shy peeping Tom at the door opening but enter the room and ENJOY as much as you can the things happening between Sue and Paul that you're not allowed to do with her anymore for an unknown time.

 

[far2easy]

Its easy to say not to be embarassed but again this is probably more to do with the social constructs you have as an alpha. As a beta, if you learn to just be whom Sue wants you to be for yourself, you can just live in the moment. I do agree with Tegelad, while we know you've said that chastity isn't for you, I could definitely see it happen in the future just for fun!

 

[SquirmingSub]

Every woman is different, some sub, some more alpha; in my experience when a woman becomes more alpha she becomes more openly expressive. In our case, my wife and I both stay smooth, typically with getting waxed together (Brazilian and Brozillian/Manzillian) respectively. We also have pedicures done together as a couple. For us a couple it brings about an additional level of intimacy through this shared time together. With that said, I agree with Far2easy and Tegelad; while it can be embarrassing for someone that has been a alpha most of there adult sexual life, for a those with a beta mind set it becomes more about embracing what makes you as a person feel good, not about others may see or judge you. As others have said above, live in the moment, enjoy the experience, learn from the experience, embrace the parts that you enjoyed and talk very openly in a respectful way to Sue about that in which you did not enjoy.

 

[peakmb]

Steve, personally I don't think it matters at all whether you shave or to what extent, and it may well be that Paul has a similar outlook. Many men these days will. The issue is of course different in your head as it is all wrapped up in the symbolism of Sue being the Alpha to you. Just for instance if she were also to persuade Paul to shave because she discovered she liked it on you, would you feel differently then? It grows back in weeks anyway.

The broader issue is really how you are still viewing this whole experiment. I continue to use that word because I do not believe in your head (or even in Sue's), you have committed yourself to this state as a permanent way of life. Sue still talks about getting her man back at some stage, you still talk about a future when sexual relations with Sue will be more 'normal'. Sue continues to say it will all end as soon as you say Stop. So part of your current anxiety is wrapped up in sinking into this deeper subspace position with all its symbols and changes and also thinking just how you can climb at least partially back out of it. If you truly enjoyed completely and forever sinking into this subspace, you wouldn't care two hoots about shaving or what Paul might be thinking or whether Sue still thinks of you as a man. But this sinking at the moment is a struggle. You are excited by the angst it creates, whilst at the same time being worried about its future (and current) consequences. Perhaps you need to experience this new state to fully appreciate what you (and Sue) like about it, and what you would both like to discard at some future point. You need to talk about that future so that you can both plan how to get there as well as which elements of your travels it will contain. As you have said many times now, there is no going back, only forward but drifting there is as bad as thinking you could fully revert in some magical way. You have time to plan and time to get there, I still believe a distinct time to end the current sex ban will be useful for both of you. It will show Sue you intend to do it (so she will get her man back), and it will give you the mental strength to get through what still might prove to be some difficult moments yet to come.

 

[SoonToBe]

Peak, I had many different thoughts when I read your post a few hours ago now. I think you have perhaps hit it on the head when you suggested that we need to experience this new state to fully appreciate what we like about it. It actually sounded very much like what Sue had said about wanting to make this seem and be as real as it can be. But based on that, unless the circumstances are very much ideal, I'm not sure I want to pull her back into that frame of mind right now if she's - as I think - chosen to use the passing of her father as something that I see as even a catalyst in a way. I do recognize that right now, I cannot be sure if she is playing this as a game or if her feelings are turning for real. What I can say is that, at least right now, I want to let her have her way. While it did hurt and ache a bit leading up to Paul's visit, the reality is that I am not yet dissuaded in my feelings just yet. If anything, if she is being honest with me and as open as she seems to be, I am inclined to let her continue at her pace and desire. This past Saturday night was for her, not me. I saw that clearly and while yes it still digs in my side a bit to see her, it arouses me far more than that.

 

[raksdeer]

In one of your previous conversations , Sue has said that being a cuck doesn't makes you less of a man. However, now she says she wants you look boyish, so that she perceives you as less of a man or less masculine. We only know Sue through your narrative and we don't know what actually she thinks. Because it looks contradoctory

 

[peakmb]

Steve, thanks for reading and responding. I can see that you are committed to continue for several reasons but mostly because on balance you still want the buzz. My post though was really about going through the experience so that you could decide on the future, together. From your slightly insecure reaction to Sue's position, a discussion with her about the future after this experiment would also serve to remind her that in your head it is definitely not permanent and equally as important, that there are elements in it that you are enduring for the greater good of having the whole experience (and letting her have it too). It is best that she knows up front which bits you will be dropping like a stone afterwards and also which bits you really enjoyed and want to continue with in some form. Squirmy it seems feels that such discussions should be done respectfully by you to reflect Sue's dominant status. I feel more inclined towards having a 'time out' discussion time (NOT in bed just before you masturbate), when you can discuss things as equals. Again this will help to reinforce the fact that Sue still has 'her man' and also that the current status quo contains elements (maybe several) that are certainly temporary. Without this kind of discussion, I fear that Sue will continue to push you as she experiments and maximises her pleasure with Paul getting deeper and deeper into it and risking damage to you and to your relationship with her as she has done before.

From your earlier discussion you dodged her crucial question when she asked if you were okay. On balance you were, but there were bits you were decidedly unhappy with at the time and Sue needs to know what you are happy with and what you are enduring (happily or not). It's not a reason for either of you to stop but she needs to know that the balloon she is currently enjoying the ride in is still anchored to the ground of your relationship albeit on a long line at present.

 

[tegelad]

I would state ... you should have the talk after you have masturbated a few times so you are 100% drained and level headed ... as for other comments ... I think this perceived boyish-ness tact is probably what she meant by taking it to the next level. So she did pre-warn you prior to this chapter that she would be attempting some things.

Steve, thanks for reading and responding. I can see that you are committed to continue for several reasons but mostly because on balance you still want the buzz. My post though was really about going through the experience so that you could decide on the future, together. From your slightly insecure reaction to Sue's position, a discussion with her about the future after this experiment would also serve to remind her that in your head it is definitely not permanent and equally as important, that there are elements in it that you are enduring for the greater good of having the whole experience (and letting her have it too). It is best that she knows up front which bits you will be dropping like a stone afterwards and also which bits you really enjoyed and want to continue with in some form. Squirmy it seems feels that such discussions should be done respectfully by you to reflect Sue's dominant status. I feel more inclined towards having a 'time out' discussion time (NOT in bed just before you masturbate), when you can discuss things as equals. Again this will help to reinforce the fact that Sue still has 'her man' and also that the current status quo contains elements (maybe several) that are certainly temporary. Without this kind of discussion, I fear that Sue will continue to push you as she experiments and maximises her pleasure with Paul getting deeper and deeper into it and risking damage to you and to your relationship with her as she has done before.

From your earlier discussion you dodged her crucial question when she asked if you were okay. On balance you were, but there were bits you were decidedly unhappy with at the time and Sue needs to know what you are happy with and what you are enduring (happily or not). It's not a reason for either of you to stop but she needs to know that the balloon she is currently enjoying the ride in is still anchored to the ground of your relationship albeit on a long line at present.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Actually, I do agree with Peak with regard to having a 'time out' discussion as equals at very specific points (Outside of the Bedroom) throughout the experiment/experience as there should be times were you and Sue do talk openly as peers within the marriage. I have always advocated for those outside of the bedroom discussions in the past so that both of you can speak with clear minds without being clouded by fog of sexual excitement. In between those established points, yes I do also believe that Steve should maintain his beta to Sue’s alpha respectively so that they both may experience what Steve has indicated through the thread that each are seeking to experience from this experiment. Over time the two of you will determine what works best for you as a couple and the three of you if Paul remains in the arrangement over time.

I would also agree with Peak that you (Steve) did dodge Sue’s crucial question when she asked if you were okay. At these early stages with these types of changes, you have to be open and honest with her. If you like something tell her, if you do not like something tell her. When she is asking you directly, it is a great time to answer honestly. Also use your times of equality to clear up any outstanding issues, feelings, etc.

 

[SoonToBe]

First - I had to reply to Raks because I knew he'd find something to mis-interpret. I clearly took her comments as being something she thought in terms of her desire towards Paul and not as a comment about me, I thought I made that clear, but perhaps not clear enough. Actually, other than the lack of intimate contact right now, things are actually quite good between us. Last night was decidedly non-sexual here and we really didn't talk much. Other than contact and arousal, little has changed so far. That includes the hugs and kisses when either gets home from work, pleasant conversation over and after dinner and a little close-time after that watching TV with the occasional hand-holding or peck on the cheek.

Where I have to say I differ with the other opinions here is that - yes I do know we need to talk - but as we'd agreed, she wants that to be at the end of October and I actually agree. To put it bluntly and quickly before I head off to work - even I"m not sure how I feel as there's just been a slow-start with Paul because of Sue's dad's passing (which still weighs on us obviously). We've/she's/I've really only had one time when our new arrangement has been pushed-in-my-face so-to-speak. I am still incredibly aroused at it all and as Peak rightfully says, I am intoxicated by it right now. But that doesn't mean I've forgotten 2 things she was clear on - one is that we play this as real as it can be. Now maybe that's something we should discuss - how real is real - but for me, while I do 'know' that we'll be intimate again - I am trying to put in my head how it will be if this were to be a longer-term thing. And while she may be thinking the same thing, I am also quite sure her head is going in a different direction regarding her desires with Paul. And that brings me to the 2nd thing she asked for - that we not talk about this until the end of October. To me, that fits with my prior sentence too - she wants to do, experience and understand more of her desires - how is that going to happen if I pull her back to what I want? That seems contradictory - and while I may not have shared my apprehensions with her, I did clearly share my encouragement, agreement and approval of going ahead - in fitting with trying to make this good for her and us, what use would my apprehensions have made sharing with her - when already I can see she is well taking care of many of them including the slow-entry into this new arrangement?

I am quite sure that neither of us are totally sure of what we want to have happen as time goes by - whether this will be something short-term (which for me - I have sort of mentally prepared for maybe 6 months of this) or something longer term (if she were to stay seeing him this way for further into next year or beyond) which I admittedly will probably have an issue with - how can we talk about it now when neither of us knows what this will bring or make us feel about or towards each other. I do know that according to her wishes, all of this IS going to be what we talk about at the end of October. In the time till the - I am actually quite interested in seeing how I feel after, by then, going almost 2 months without having sex with her.

GTR

 

[peakmb]

Steve, you are starting to sound a little like a politician here. Firstly it was fairly easy for Raks to make the assumption that he did. It wouldn't be the first contradiction reported of Sue's changing targets.
Secondly, you based part of this entire experiment on Sue's commitment to continue to talk. Not about the weather but about this very thing and that can't happen if you wait until the end of October to say anything even slightly negative. Dialog is not you saying, Yes dear I'm fine, to every question Sue asks. The end of October was Sue's latest date for a commitment to sexually reconnect with you in some way not a date to start talking. Maybe you are talking about a wholesale review at that time but even that should be preceeded by some dialog on progress.
In the meantime I'm glad you have some of your mojo back and I hope it continues tonight. I'm sure you need these sessions.

 

[tegelad]

So what is planned for Paul and her for this week and weekend? Has she shared any of that with you? IMO, you need to start to talk to her about sexual things like a friend and not her husband. Then take those discussions describe them out to us here and take care of your needs in hand.

Giver her space she like any of us need time and space to process things ... and remember as a follower listening is more important then talking. You are not the leader for the following few months (maybe year). Sit back, relax and enjoy the angst as your place is to provide friendship and balance not to have your sexual needs satisfied with and in her.

 

[raksdeer]

Blame on it Rio. I always refer to statements made by you. But again if you don't agree, it's your perception. Only one question - do you want that I do not comment here anymore? Or that rather, I too join the tone others are speaking in?

 

[SquirmingSub]

Within these types of developing and evolving relationships, you will find that dates and general times lines are always pliable. Such an amazing dynamic within the lifestyle if those involved can handle it. Tegelad has a intriguing view point, while you (Steve) are Sue's husband; when it comes to sexual things you are Sue's best friend and should be able to openly speak with her in that manner. Everyone should always remember to be careful what you wish for, what you ask for and be prepared for any consequences which may come as a result. Time to sit back, relax and enjoy the journey.

 

[SoonToBe]

Raks - you're always welcome here - I look at you as offering a sobering opposing point of view and to keep me honest too.

Tgelead - my understanding right now is that he'll be coming over either Friday or Saturday this week and her plan is for him to spend the night. She asked me if I preferred him coming here or her going there and I told her that I would like her to be here which made her smile, but I'm sure we'll talk more later tonight about this. It's my intention to let her lead on this stuff, at least for the time being as she seems to have a definite plan in some ways.

Peak - you're right in that if I felt the need to talk about things, I would. Her behavior and attitude towards me so far has soothed some of my anxiety and I'm content right now to let things ride for a little while longer and see what she wants and what she has planned and then, when I hear and understand more of what she is thinking, that'll be when I will not just want, but we will need to talk. And you're also right about my mis-associating her end of October date as being when we'd talk vs. when we'd be intimate again, which again, is why I've said you're right... But again, it would have happened of it's own accord so, in a way, we're both right.

 

[tegelad]

That is good news. Friends help friends get lucky and be happy in their pursuits. If it helps you out, picture yourself as a wing-man to your hot wife. The more she is happy and taken care of the better of a husband you are. After a few weeks settle out, you should even try to suggest that you get Paul over a bit more often, since it seems your wife has a pretty healthy sex drive, and one or two times a week might not be enough.

As you importantly pointed out ... what was your end of month target was shafted by the dear loss of her father and extra stress with her mother; however, it does have a silver lining in that it points out that life is short and you should take advantage of every opportunity you can have. On some chastity blogs, there is a statement about Locktober ... but since you aren't into that ... I would suggest a Rocktober for her where you get her to have as much sex with Paul as you can mentally handle.

I always like to associate challenges and games in anything that is a struggle, and a random thought I had would be to ask her as a friend how many times if she could would she like to have sex in a week, and then figure out some fun Beta twist for you. For example, if she liked to have 4 or 5 times a week, and she only has it 1 - 2 times, tell her whatever her end date for this experiment or when you get to be a friend with benefits on the side adds up additional time. If you can exceed the date, time gets subtracted. That is of course only an example, but you catch my drift, the idea is how you can make sure she feels relaxed and is a queen during this fun time for the two of you, and something that ramps up your beta angst ....

Good luck, and I am sure like the others that respond, we wish you the best of luck in furthering your fantasy or helping you if you bottom out mentally.

 

[azsurfer77]

Congratulations on you and Sue starting your grand experience. You have been pointing to this for several years now by what you have related in your threads. Now that it is here, relax and enjoy it. It will ramp up your angst at times, but think of the love you and Sue share, and the fact that Sue has told you this isn't forever.
This may be the time to expand from being the beta, and cuckold, to add dispassionate observer, or even voyeur to the mix. After decades of marriage, we all get a little stale in our lovemaking, and need some new ideas. Since Sue and Paul will not be forever, take the time to observe what Paul does to make Sue feel special, give her pleasure, and turn her on to new and higher levels of sexual satisfaction.
You have related that Sue has told you that she and Paul get "physical" at times; learn what all that means. You have observed directly the naked chase, leading to the naked trap and smoldering kisses and groping outside the bedroom. You have observed the mutual oral, as well as Paul's long oral attention to give Sue one or more orgasms. Is there anything to take away from that observation? You have related that Sue and Paul have sex outside the bedroom: where and how, and could that lead to more inventive sex?
And you have related that you have observed, and heard accounts of, Sue and Paul having sex over several hours: Paul driving her to an orgasm, then taking a break, holding and cuddling, or even getting a water break, and maybe changing rooms, or at least positions, before resuming again. Women are capable of more orgasms than men, so the men have to be inventive to prolong sex without blowing their load too many times. You have proven that you can come more than once in an evening, you just need to take your time and bring Sue pleasure at her pace, while pacing yourself.
Make these observations, learn from them, and when your time comes bring something different to the table and surprise Sue.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, despite what others suggested and recommended, it seems like Wednesday nights are when it is most easy for us to talk.
However, we did cover the important stuff before our, or rather, my clothes came off.

After dinner we had a glass of wine and as we sat on the couch she and I started to talk. After we covered our respective days and she filled me in on the latest with her mom and their estate transition, she looked at me and asked me again "so baby, is everything okay with us?".

I had read and was thinking about the stuff everyone posted and I decided to just talk about things and not so much ask questions but to more see where the conversation went. I told her that I was surprised but that so far I was okay with things, but that I did have some apprehensions and that I wasn't sure about how she was feeling or, and I said it, where we're going to with everything. She was very at ease with what I was asking as I made sure not to ask about when we'd have sex again or when she was going to be with Paul, etc., instead I pointed it to 'us'.

I told her that I was okay with what we were doing as long as we talked about things and she smiled and said that she was glad I had brought it up and she even apologized for "not being here" with all the stuff with her dad. I told her that she didn't need to apologize but that we did still need to make sure we talked (and I used Peak's words) "in and out of the bedroom".. She smiled, pulled her legs up under her on the couch and turned towards me to talk more. I told her that I knew she wanted to make it be as real as it could be and that I didn't want to distract her from that, she interrupted and said she appreciated that from me. But I then added that I still wanted to make sure that we were going to be good with each other and that we were still in sync. I told her that it wasn't easy for me and that I appreciated her "slow start" which made her blush a bit and she said that she wanted it to be good for her too and she also didn't want to start too quickly and again mentioned still needing to be available for her sister and mom. I told her that was absolutely what I expected. So she asked me what I was apprehensive about and I told her honestly that I wasn't sure about how I was going to feel about giving up sex with her and that I thought these feelings were going to intensify over the next few weeks. Before she could answer I told her that i was concerned about these kinds of things not being easy to back away from.

I wasn't totally ready for what she said next. I won't try to quote it all because it'd just take too long but she surprised me first by saying that "well, you only have to wait till the end of the month, remember honey?" and I told her I wasn't sure she was going to want to think about or talk about that right now. She smiled and said that she thought she was past that point now and that as long as it wasn't something I continually brought up to her, that it was surely something we could talk about and she even giggled and said "I"m sure you miss it already, don't you?". And I answered with a honest yes and I then asked her the same. She said she'd tell me honestly and she said that right now, that no, she doesn't really miss it and she again mentioned how its easier for her to separate us with me bare like I am. I asked her what she meant and she smilied and said that I have a big cock but that seeing it without hair makes her separate me from how Paul looks and that helps her separate her desires too. She asked me how it made me feel and I told her that it turned me on sort of and I reminded her how we'd done it many times together in the past and she said she knew and she remembered but that it felt different back then. She also looked at me and said that she knew it would make me feel self-conscious too and that she thought it might help me "get used to things". I told her it did help but at the same time it made me very horny. She looked at me and said "it turns you on the same way the condoms do, doesn't it?" and she proceeded to ask/tell me how she hoped it would, like the condoms, help me get used to giving it up.

I looked at her and she said that she wondered if maybe my having given that up before "you know, cumming in me" that it would have maybe eased things for me a little bit " and as we talked she told me how she thought maybe getting used to that would have made it easier to "you know, give up the rest....". I hadn't thought about that before as I'd been thinking that it was the delays and her "slow start" so I looked at her and she said something to the effect of "you know, you haven't cum in me for so long that maybe this wouldn't have been such a big thing to you know, stop up having sex with me for a while". I looked at her and I told her honestly that I hadn't thought about that and she giggled and said "most guys would have never said yes baby, so I kind of thought....". It's going to sound kind of surreal but we spent the next few minutes talking about how we both felt about that. We both admitted that it turned both of us on that I barely came in her in now almost 2 years and we talked VERY openly about that. We've talked about this before but this time it did feel a little different and I told her so. She told me that she felt "incredibly sexually empowered" (her words) by what we're doing and she told me that, now, it very much turns her on that "my husband doesn't cum inside me". She asked me to tell her how I felt and I told her honestly, that it still really turned me on and "tweaked my being a beta". She looked at me and said that she loved me and that she loved that I could be comfortable with her and with "being the beta that you want to be" and she told me that's part of what she is feeling, that she wants to make it good for me and that I shouldn't worry about it.

I know we should have talked more, but by the time we started talking about condoms and this stuff, she'd moved closer to me and it had gone from a regular conversation to being something very sexually charged. She started to tell me how erotic she feels when she knows that my cum isn't in her and how erotic she thinks it is to watch me "like you're going to do later...". She leaned in and started to kiss me and while we could have talked for hours more she started to tell me how erotic it was to watch a guy cum and how turned on it made her feel, along with the condoms and then she said it "besides, watching you makes me even hornier for Paul baby....". I turned to her and I told her that as long as we could talk like we were that we can have fun with all of this and she giggled and reached down and felt my now hard cock and she smiled and said "mmmm, I so want to watch you baby".

So - after some playful kissing and teasing and a refill on the glass of wine, she encouraged me to strip down right there in the living room and to let her watch me right then and there. It was dark out already and we turned the lights down in the room and I let her coax me into it. I told her that it turned me on that she wanted me to shave and she said she hoped I understood, that she loved my "big cock" but that for her, seeing it bare, she giggled and said that it makes her feel different when she sees Paul compared to me and she asked me if I liked how it felt. I know it was a sexy moment and I shouldn't have said anything but I admitted to her that it gave me the same kind of sexy turn on as it feels to use condoms with her - that I become very self-aware and very turned-on by now it feels and what it makes me think. She commented as I started to stroke that I seemed to "hold your balls more" and I told her that the skin felt soft and it made me feel turned on. She smiled and asked me if it helped me "cum more?" and I nodded yes. She kept smiling and said "see, I know there's more fun we can have..... and in the living room tonight honey too! lets just not get any of your cum on the couch baby....". Fuck if I wasn't hard and hot already!

As I lay back on the couch she stood up in front of me and she said that she liked how it felt to turn me on and to know that I was enjoying it even if I also knew that was all I was going to be getting. She said it turned her on to feel this way and she started to rub herself all over sexily over her clothes and then she teased me at first by flashing me her bra and then taking her top off and letting me see her sexy body but not her breasts. She came over to me and straddled one of my legs and rubbed her crotch against it and she teased "my pussy is so hot and wet baby". I felt like she was somoene else at moments - that's how exciting it was to be there. She stood and slowly unbuttoned and slid down her pants. Playfully she let her panties slip down enough to let me know she's still bare but just before her pussy came into view her hand blocked my sight. Her panties dropped to her knees as she stepped out of her pants but with her hand still covering her pussy she pulled up the panties with the other and then she brought the hand that was covering her pussy to my mouth and nose and she giggled and said "see?". I laughed and said "I wish (I had seen it)" but then moaned when I could see her finger glistening a little and the sweet scent reached my nose.

She stood there in panties and a bra watching me masturbate and I swear it felt like the sexiest moment I've had with her in ages. She teased me - leaning forward and letting me just peek at the tops of her breasts and nipples and then at other times pulling the panties up tight against her pussy and showing me her camel-toe outline and at an other time, she pulled the crotch of her panties out a bit and let me see the dampened center. But she kept talking to me about seeing me cum and how it turned her on that I really got into it. I told her how it turned me on to know what I was giving up with her and she moved closer to me and held my free hand and she said she knew it did. I think I gave away what was on my mind when she said "so baby, we can always have fun like this no matter what" and then she added "I'll always want to watch you, even if we're not having sex baby....". That did it - it just came spurting out of me. She shrieked at the first spurt and leaned back and we then both watched the rest land on my stomach and chest until my cock was all shriveled up.