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New Year, New Thread
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raksdeer said:
Rak - You are so funny. We all have agreed in our various ways that Steve is on an emotional roller coaster. Steve has described this through his various post. This is very common in this lifestyle and yes I for one do believe Steve needs more support as opposed to some of you being judgmental and derogatory. I would have said that open and honest communication is best for any couple (lifestyle couples or otherwise) and the more open and honest communication become the more sensitive people can become. While your remark "I am all confused!" may have been meant as sarcasm, it may also have been the most sincere thing you have said in a while. Enjoy your day.
Q1. OK, So you agree that Steve is on emotional roller coaster ?
Q2. Would he be on this emotional roller coaster has Sue continued what she has been doing ? Or is he there because Sue wants something?
Q3. If my wanting something (which I can live without) puts the one whom I love on emotional roller coaster, am I being cruel or not?
Q4. Calling someone as Judgemental and Derogatory is being judgemental or not ?
Awaiting you answers Squirm.
Q2. Would he be on this emotional roller coaster has Sue continued what she has been doing ? Or is he there because Sue wants something?
Q3. If my wanting something (which I can live without) puts the one whom I love on emotional roller coaster, am I being cruel or not?
Q4. Calling someone as Judgemental and Derogatory is being judgemental or not ?
Awaiting you answers Squirm.
..and you're just the man to keep it real far2? In your dreams. This is just the mice playing while the cat is away. Steve has shown all of us over the years that he can laugh, ignore or listen to us without disturbing his mental process too much. I suspect he's simply thinking a little deeper than normal where to go next.
Ohh...Far2 and thatguy...for you it may be just a story. For a man who is sharing this with us, (STB), pouring his guts out, it's as real as it gets. He is using this as a medium to share what is happening with him and as Peak has put "he can laugh, ignore or listen to us without disturbing his mental process too much". And yes, I understand what you want to happen and what you want to hear.
Quite so Dutch. There seems to be a bit too much of this inappropriate sniping/point-scoring going on which detracts what the majority of us are here to follow on this fascinating forum. I sit waiting for the next exciting update from Steve and all I keep seeing are people who seemingly think they have something important to add. Believe me, you don't. Keep your comments to yourself or, as Dutch says, use PM to conduct your private "debate."
That's 3 people in the last day that haven't got 40 posts between them and even less on Steve's threads that think they know what he wants. I don't believe it is. I think it's what you want. You're entitled to ask for what you want. Of course you'd have to post more to do that but you seem to have started so carry on. I'll stop now until Steve comes back but let's let him decide whether he wants comments and debate here or a bunch of ghosts who just read his 'pure' thread with nothing added.
So, I'll say what I've been saying for a long time.
Raks - you continue to not understand that while I have reluctance and anxiety and some misgivings and some ill feelings about all of this, you continue to believe that Sue is forcing this on me in a merciless way and that is very untrue. Perhaps that is what eludes you and what I had many a long discussion with Sue about this past weekend. I will admit it that I do want her to do this with Paul - as hard as it is to say that and to let myself accept it - it is the truth. She knows it too and she knows that when I didn't outright reject her desire to have the "whole big affair" a few years ago where she wanted to give herself physically and emotionally to another, when I didn't say no to that, she says she's known that deep inside it's something that on some level that I want to experience.
For Peak - Sue actually suggested to me that we have a specific date when we will talk and openly discuss how things are going. So I believe that is a type of safeguard that you were recommending. When we talked, she said that if we start just after Labor Day, that come the first weekend in October, that we would then take some time alone together, maybe go away, and talk about how things are for both of us.
I'm a little busy this morning in at work so I'll likely need to finish putting my thoughts out later today.
Someone asked me about how things had gone last weekend when Paul was here and I am remiss in sharing that he was quite demonstrative with her and seemed to, at least to me, seem more confident with her when I was there with them. I can only share that it was very arousing watching them together and seeing how they are together. As I said, it had been some time and even now I am hard thinking of seeing her be with him so easily. I did go into the room once they were pretty well into it and I was there right next to them when he fucked her for the first time. I even did my part supporting the rouse Sue had started in that, I think from nerves, my cock wasn't hard when I went in to be with them and I know that Paul noticed it when I sat next to them as I know that I felt myself get fully hard when I watched him rub his cock all around her pussy and then used the head of it to spread her pussy lips apart.
I know she's told me before but she made a point of telling me yesterday how she feels when she lies there like that beneath Paul and she can feel him opening her up like that. What she said made me wince a little but also got me very hard when she said that she feels as comfortable with him like that as she does with me and then she said "maybe, recently, a little more with him than you even". She told me that she loves how she feels so incredibly feminine and so wanted by him when she will lie there beneath him and spread herself open for him. She laughed at how I responded when she told me she loves being naked and that she loves her pussy being shaved for him as it makes her feel incredibly sexy that at that moment, she wants him to have all of her.
I did masturbate while I was there with them last weekend. As I said, Paul saw that I wasn't fully hard and that as I watched him seduce and then begin to fuck her, that I got fully hard. It wasn't planned that way but it did happen. I slowly started to stroke myself and at one point he looked at me and said "it's cool if you need to" and then he went back to Sue. As I said, he was a bit more demonstrative with her including taking time to kiss her passionately while he was still fucking her - a bit of a stretch for him to remain in her while kissing her but he managed and I was ecstatic to see and feel her respond. Knowing he was making her feel so good was really enjoyable for me. I came long before he did but I was able to aim it a bit and didn't make too much of a mess other than in a washcloth that was nearby. I then watched as he took my wife many times - he easily brought her to several gut wrenching orgasms before I watched him buck away deep in her and again, even I knew when he was about to cum in her.
I'll say it openly for everyone here - if I didn't feel quite so self-conscious I would have been encouraging him out loud at the end as I truly wanted to see him orgasm and to see her response. If I recall, she'd just come off a peak of her own orgasm when I saw him push into her one last time and I heard him grunt. My god do I love that moment. I so cannot explain it but even now - it's over a week ago and the thought of hearing him moan out "oh oh oh" and then "oooooh yeah.... uh... uh.... uh....". Even after I'd cum a few minutes before I felt a spasm of my own and a dribble of pre-cum at that very moment.
I do wish he'd have pulled out of her right then (something I may tell her) as it is just incredibly erotic to see the last of his semen ooze out of his cock and for me to know he left the rest of it inside her, that combined with how wet and slick his cock would look - just so gets to me.
I'll end this part of my update by sharing that she did NOT see him this past weekend - she was a bit annoyed but also said she'd expected it as again he was off golfing. Yesterday afternoon she began hinting that she was a little horny and that she wanted to know if I was ready and interested in having fun last night. She said that all of our talk and all of her own admissions about what she wanted and enjoyed - along with what I'd told her that equally turned her on - she said she wanted to have sex with me last night. When the time came she admitted that she was horny and that she "needed to be fucked". I knew she wanted me because Paul wasn't available but as we started to get into, again from our talks, she began to tease me and told me that she wanted to be sure the next 8 weeks were good for me.
By 8pm last night after talking about sex most of the day with her, I was ravenously horny. She giggled at how hard my cock was and asked me if I enjoyed being so turned on. I admitted that it was an amazing feeling to be that aroused and that I enjoyed it. She asked me if I was "ready to fill a condom" and I laughed and said "yeah, hopefully in you" - again, it was a continuation of some of what we'd talked about all day and she giggled and said "that's what I expected".
She told me how she felt that sex with me "confused her". And after she seemed to orgasm so easily and so intensely with me, I think I understood what she meant. It wasn't hard to get her aroused and she was very responsive once we started fucking. She shrieked out loud several times as I felt what were obviously deep orgasms (her pussy spasmed crazily - but what gave it away was just how gushing wet she would get). I plunged deep into her and felt her grab on and hold me tightly as I had my own climax while deep inside her. She expired before I did with her lying there almost motionless as I enjoyed the last thrusts as my cock began to shrink.
We lay there together until she caught her breath and regained her focus and then reached down and grabbed the base of my cock and then felt upwards for the condom edge. When she held that she pushed up against me and slid my softening cock out of her. She slid the condom off and she smiled up at me and said "wow, that is the most I've seen from you in a long time honey" and she held it up for me to see. I admit to feeling a bit proud at it all - making her squeal and such a prodigious load.
Raks - you continue to not understand that while I have reluctance and anxiety and some misgivings and some ill feelings about all of this, you continue to believe that Sue is forcing this on me in a merciless way and that is very untrue. Perhaps that is what eludes you and what I had many a long discussion with Sue about this past weekend. I will admit it that I do want her to do this with Paul - as hard as it is to say that and to let myself accept it - it is the truth. She knows it too and she knows that when I didn't outright reject her desire to have the "whole big affair" a few years ago where she wanted to give herself physically and emotionally to another, when I didn't say no to that, she says she's known that deep inside it's something that on some level that I want to experience.
For Peak - Sue actually suggested to me that we have a specific date when we will talk and openly discuss how things are going. So I believe that is a type of safeguard that you were recommending. When we talked, she said that if we start just after Labor Day, that come the first weekend in October, that we would then take some time alone together, maybe go away, and talk about how things are for both of us.
I'm a little busy this morning in at work so I'll likely need to finish putting my thoughts out later today.
Someone asked me about how things had gone last weekend when Paul was here and I am remiss in sharing that he was quite demonstrative with her and seemed to, at least to me, seem more confident with her when I was there with them. I can only share that it was very arousing watching them together and seeing how they are together. As I said, it had been some time and even now I am hard thinking of seeing her be with him so easily. I did go into the room once they were pretty well into it and I was there right next to them when he fucked her for the first time. I even did my part supporting the rouse Sue had started in that, I think from nerves, my cock wasn't hard when I went in to be with them and I know that Paul noticed it when I sat next to them as I know that I felt myself get fully hard when I watched him rub his cock all around her pussy and then used the head of it to spread her pussy lips apart.
I know she's told me before but she made a point of telling me yesterday how she feels when she lies there like that beneath Paul and she can feel him opening her up like that. What she said made me wince a little but also got me very hard when she said that she feels as comfortable with him like that as she does with me and then she said "maybe, recently, a little more with him than you even". She told me that she loves how she feels so incredibly feminine and so wanted by him when she will lie there beneath him and spread herself open for him. She laughed at how I responded when she told me she loves being naked and that she loves her pussy being shaved for him as it makes her feel incredibly sexy that at that moment, she wants him to have all of her.
I did masturbate while I was there with them last weekend. As I said, Paul saw that I wasn't fully hard and that as I watched him seduce and then begin to fuck her, that I got fully hard. It wasn't planned that way but it did happen. I slowly started to stroke myself and at one point he looked at me and said "it's cool if you need to" and then he went back to Sue. As I said, he was a bit more demonstrative with her including taking time to kiss her passionately while he was still fucking her - a bit of a stretch for him to remain in her while kissing her but he managed and I was ecstatic to see and feel her respond. Knowing he was making her feel so good was really enjoyable for me. I came long before he did but I was able to aim it a bit and didn't make too much of a mess other than in a washcloth that was nearby. I then watched as he took my wife many times - he easily brought her to several gut wrenching orgasms before I watched him buck away deep in her and again, even I knew when he was about to cum in her.
I'll say it openly for everyone here - if I didn't feel quite so self-conscious I would have been encouraging him out loud at the end as I truly wanted to see him orgasm and to see her response. If I recall, she'd just come off a peak of her own orgasm when I saw him push into her one last time and I heard him grunt. My god do I love that moment. I so cannot explain it but even now - it's over a week ago and the thought of hearing him moan out "oh oh oh" and then "oooooh yeah.... uh... uh.... uh....". Even after I'd cum a few minutes before I felt a spasm of my own and a dribble of pre-cum at that very moment.
I do wish he'd have pulled out of her right then (something I may tell her) as it is just incredibly erotic to see the last of his semen ooze out of his cock and for me to know he left the rest of it inside her, that combined with how wet and slick his cock would look - just so gets to me.
I'll end this part of my update by sharing that she did NOT see him this past weekend - she was a bit annoyed but also said she'd expected it as again he was off golfing. Yesterday afternoon she began hinting that she was a little horny and that she wanted to know if I was ready and interested in having fun last night. She said that all of our talk and all of her own admissions about what she wanted and enjoyed - along with what I'd told her that equally turned her on - she said she wanted to have sex with me last night. When the time came she admitted that she was horny and that she "needed to be fucked". I knew she wanted me because Paul wasn't available but as we started to get into, again from our talks, she began to tease me and told me that she wanted to be sure the next 8 weeks were good for me.
By 8pm last night after talking about sex most of the day with her, I was ravenously horny. She giggled at how hard my cock was and asked me if I enjoyed being so turned on. I admitted that it was an amazing feeling to be that aroused and that I enjoyed it. She asked me if I was "ready to fill a condom" and I laughed and said "yeah, hopefully in you" - again, it was a continuation of some of what we'd talked about all day and she giggled and said "that's what I expected".
She told me how she felt that sex with me "confused her". And after she seemed to orgasm so easily and so intensely with me, I think I understood what she meant. It wasn't hard to get her aroused and she was very responsive once we started fucking. She shrieked out loud several times as I felt what were obviously deep orgasms (her pussy spasmed crazily - but what gave it away was just how gushing wet she would get). I plunged deep into her and felt her grab on and hold me tightly as I had my own climax while deep inside her. She expired before I did with her lying there almost motionless as I enjoyed the last thrusts as my cock began to shrink.
We lay there together until she caught her breath and regained her focus and then reached down and grabbed the base of my cock and then felt upwards for the condom edge. When she held that she pushed up against me and slid my softening cock out of her. She slid the condom off and she smiled up at me and said "wow, that is the most I've seen from you in a long time honey" and she held it up for me to see. I admit to feeling a bit proud at it all - making her squeal and such a prodigious load.
Well done Steve. Your obvious and continuing reluctance to fully accept Sue's plan will have its own effect on her - even though you both know you will go ahead with it. Sue's plan to have talks after you start is almost as good as flags. Try to remember that they need to be repeated every few weeks though. Sue is unlikely to 'switch off' from you immediately. It's more likely to be six weeks or more in so it's then that a 'talk' may be needed, and repeated. You both know the whole thing may affect your reversal options after so there is no point stressing it again. For both your sakes it may be good to get one bareback session in before you start, maybe for Sue's balance more than yours. She's getting what she wants so asking for one last time that way before you start shouldn't be an unreasonable request, perhaps on a weekend away?
Okay - some time since I'm sure what I posted above will generate more conspiracy theories, and I'm sure what I'm about to write will get me flamed too but here goes.
Sue and I both talked as I'd mentioned - and we both recognize this is a very pivotal moment for us. When we talked over the weekend she told me how she felt about many things and she encouraged me to talk to her as openly as I could so we could do what's good for both of us. As I mentioned above, one of the things she asked me and we talked about was whether I actually wanted her to do this with Paul and whether it was something that, even despite my anxiety and misgivings, whether I wanted her to do it. As I indicated above she asked me as part of a bigger discussion, one that was suggested to me in a PM. We actually started this specific line of discussion by me asking her if she was comfortable now taking the "alpha role" in things with both Paul and I. She giggled and said that she'd recognized this too but hadn't realized that's what she should call it other than her feeling like she was controlling things more. As part of us talking she said that she was enjoying herself a lot and after I'd told her that I was also enjoying her taking the lead with more things sexual, she surprised me and said that she wasn't sure but she "... can't remember feeling this horny in general since before we got married.... you know..." and I did know what she meant - as I've long posted here, she was enjoying quite a promiscuous streak when we first met. I told her that I do sense some of that same "... desire for pleasure..." as I'd seen back then and she giggled a little at that and said that she hadn't realized that was an alpha thing. It led to us, eventually, openly discussing how she felt as an alpha now. It took her a moment to understand what I was saying but then she seemed to get it and she said that she hoped what she was going to say wasn't going to hurt me ".... but I guess as a beta, you probably want to hear it then....". And she proceeded to tell me how her atitude and desire for sex with both me and Paul had changed and how now that she could see how I framed it, that she only then said she began to realize how she had become the alpha. She told me that she likes controlling what she does sexually - and then said it - also what I do and enjoy sexually. She told me that these past 2 years have been really eye opening for her and that she now realizes she can truly enjoy a sexual relationship with Paul.
It was then that she looked at me and asked "Did you know this is how I would feel when you told me you wanted to be the beta guy?". I didn't know what she was talking about but then she continued to talk to me and she said that in the past 2 years or so, yes since starting with Paul but also coinciding with my easy acceptance of him as well as my continued acceptance as things escalated - and then my coming out as the beta (and I do feel it is very much like a gay person coming-out too - in that I am finally accepting what I think I've been feeling for a long time). What she was saying is that her desire for this full-blown-affair never really went away - but as she explained it - and can now put a label to it as her being the alpha, that she says that it's sort of extinguished part of what she'd wanted to feel earlier - that feeling of emotional attachment to her lover. Now she says that "as the alpha" she knows and wants to fulfill the physical parts of that earlier desire. And so she jokingly asked if I'd plotted to become the beta to lead to this change in her desire? I laughed and said I couldn't have possibly know that would happen.
It let to us rehashing a lot of what she'd told me several years ago - of her desire to feel that kind of sexuality and sexual desire again. She said again how she's feeling older and now that we're even talking about retirement at some point as well as her parents frailty that is all weighing on her. I listened and tried to be supportive but it was also pretty clear that after harboring this desire now for so many years, that I wasn't going to really be able to chang her mind on it. She told me quite openly as I'd already said about how she felt sharing herself so easily and freely with him that when I realized how I'd responded to her about that stuff, that it was also signaling her that I was likely going to feel the same about this. At point she said that it wasn't easy for her - and I know I've shared that thought here before but she said more this time, that is makes her uneasy to know she feels this way and that while she knows it does turn me on, that she also knows what she is asking for is very well likely beyond what I had or would find arousing. She looked at me and asked me if would be willing to indulge her. It was part of this talk that led to our discussing what I already also shared about safeguards. I told her that i wasn't totally convinced yet and that I still had concerns and that was when she asked about us doing a monthly check-in with each other to talk openly like we were then.
I should have added above and will add now that she said "I'm not saying we're going to have sex then...." and she proceeded to say that's the exact thing she doesn't want to feel - that obligation or scheduling of what she will have to be intimate with me. She assured me that it will happen (and I realize now that it may happen as it did yesterday, as something perhaps when Paul is away or busy) but that she didn't want to feel that it was something she had to think ahead of time about.
The way she explained it to me - once we'd started to talk more openly was that she said something she'd said back when she wanted the whole big affair, that she wants to feel as though she "should be having sex with Paul" and that she wants to feel that it's something unexpected and a surprise if it happens with me. I asked her how she felt when we do have sex together and that's when she came out with the "confused" comment - which she explained to me that she always seems to orgasm when we have sex and she knows that's a good thing and she readily admits that to this day, she still thinks my cock fits in her best - but at the same time - she is almost infatuated with wanting sex with Paul and that "it is now just as good as with you baby" in all ways save for how I think my overall thick cock still makes her feel the best. She said that it was the hardest thing for her to do to ask me to abstain with her but she said that Paul and I feel different and make her feel different and when she's really getting into it with him, that when she's with me and I pull her in a different direction, that she says she feels like it's not the right thing to do and that once she is really into it with him after September, that as she said long ago, that she wants to feel almost as if she's cheating on Paul if she has sex with me.
We talked a bit more about that and she asked me how that made me feel to know she might be thinking that way. I told her that it turned me on and she took the moment to tell me "that's how the beta part of you feels" and she asked me if that was what I wanted and if I still wanted to be the beta.
We took an interesting change of direction at that point when I asked her what she wanted as the alpha. She giggled and said that she'd not really thought about it and she in turn looked at me and asked the same thing. She then reminded me of what I'd said I'd wanted "remember, you told me you wanted me to look to Paul for my sexual desires..... is that still true now?". We went back and forth as I asked her how she felt now as the alpha and what she felt she wanted. And over the next 30-40 minutes I guess, we both sort of opened up about things. She told me that she likes it very much when I'm with her and Paul while they're having sex and she said that part of the reason she loves that is that she knows it turns me on but more so that she likes the feeling of having me watching her and her knowing that's all I"m doing. She admitted that her alpha-mind as she began to call it enjoys denying me - she admitted that it started out because she knew it turned me on, but now she admits that denying me in general turns her on very much at times and that now that I was bringing it all out in the open, she said that she didn't want to always feel that she was walking on eggshells around me and having to worry about upsetting me or hurting my feelings if she didn't want to have sex with me. It was quite frank but also long overdue. She told me that in many ways I had no one to blame but myself for some of what I was feeling if I didn't like it. That between all I'd asked her to do and made clear that I enjoyed her doing plus "you wanting to be the beta" that she asked me again what I expected was going to happen other than to fuel her desires again.
Now, it wasn't all cold at all - far from it in fact. Part of her thoughts she shared with me was that she didn't feel this was dangerous to us at all. "If you minded not fucking me, it'd be one thing, but you don't mind it.... I know that.... " and she said again how her feeling the alpha role had let her understand that just because I enjoyed her fucking Paul so much, that it didn't mean anything else - she looked at me and said "I know you don't want to lose me or me to leave you" and she added "I hope you know I feel the same way.... that just as you want me to enjoy this, I want you to". She again told me how "it's not going to last forever with Paul" but admitted that it could be something she wants to feel with him for a longer period of time. I asked her what that meant and she said that she wasn't sure how long she was going to want this period with Paul. "Surely a few months....." and I knew there was more and she added "but if it's working for both of us, then I don' t know baby....". So again, it made it easy to reinforce the need for us to talk very openly - again at that 4 week mark.
Of course the tide turned back to me and I knew it was my turn to fess up about how I felt and what I wanted as the beta. Just as she'd told me so much that I'd heard in other ways I too seemed to have the same things to share. I told her how scared I was when I first admitted to my emerging feelings but then made her smile with how I said I felt afterwards and how it seemed to make me a lot more at ease. She agreed and said that not long afterwards that she too felt a change in me. I told her that I felt a growing ease of accepting that I was going to be playing a diminishing role for her sexually and that it turned me on. We talked very openly about condoms and she asked me how I felt about them. I think I surprised her by saying that it now felt right for me to use them and it wasn't easy for me to tell her that I couldn't be sure that even if she offered me to go bare with her whether I would want to. I told her that it makes me crazy with desire to know that's the only way I will have her now and I made her smile broadly when I told her that I loved the feeling of using them with her and I admitted that it really tweaked my beta-needs to know that 'm not cumming in her and that I am deliberately and intentionally doing it so that only Paul gets to cum in her. I knew she would ask me how that made me feel and it took me a moment to collect my thoughts. I told her as a beta that I enjoyed her sexuality, maybe even more, by watching and being there vicariously rather than actually participating. Yes I repeated what caused so much flaming a few weeks ago when I told her again that there were times when I preferred masturbating to having sex with her. I told her that while I wasn't prepared to lose her, that I was incredibly aroused at the thought of Paul taking possession of her sexually.
I was honest though, i told her that I had times and moments and thoughts where I still felt I had some of my alpha desires and needs. She was very close and held me and told me she understood - she said that she too felt points where she wasn't sure of things. I told her how I still had thoughts and feelings that this isn't what a real-man wants and that I shouldn't be so cavalier about everything and that sometimes it got me very concerned about not having sex with her. She giggled and said what I've seen other say "is it really so important for you to cum while you're in me?" and she said she knew that there was a lot of feelings in all of this for me but that she really needed to understand if it's something more physical where I truly need to feel her vagina when I orgasm - or whether it's more in my head. I told her as best as I could that sometimes, yes, my hand was wonderfully satisfying but I also told her that I didn't think it was going to be good for us if we never fucked again or if it was a long time.
As has happened before when we've talked like this, she held my hand and promised me that it wasn't going to be that long and that she was sure I was going to be okay and she said "I know baby, it's not good for either of us to go too long" and as we talked she said that she thought that no matter what, after a few weeks that she too was going to need to be with me. As she put it "no matter what baby, I still need you". When I pushed her a bit we actually both talked about how long a "long time" was. I told her that as we've started to talk and as "it starts to get closer" that I'd been thinking that at least once every 6 weeks or so that it was going to be something we had to do for ourselves. She was honest and she said that we can talk at 4 weeks as we agreed to and we can talk then about whether it'll be at 6 weeks. I looked at her and she said that she was thinking more like 8 weeks or so and she smiled and said "that would mean we'd be together for New Years Eve too honey". I told her that it made me scared to think that way, that we may only have sex like 2 times after September gets here. She held my hands and asked me what scared me about that and I went right back to how I didn't think it was how I should feel or what a man should want. But she looked at me and asked me "but baby, is it what you want?". I told her honestly that it scared me to say yes and I told her that it scared me to think of maybe only making love to her maybe 5 or 6 times in total next year.
That was when she surprised me and said "I honestly don't think it's going to last that long baby!" and she was emphatic when she said to me that "I just want to feel what it's like baby" and that she couldn't think herself of it lasting more than a few months into 2017.
Sue and I both talked as I'd mentioned - and we both recognize this is a very pivotal moment for us. When we talked over the weekend she told me how she felt about many things and she encouraged me to talk to her as openly as I could so we could do what's good for both of us. As I mentioned above, one of the things she asked me and we talked about was whether I actually wanted her to do this with Paul and whether it was something that, even despite my anxiety and misgivings, whether I wanted her to do it. As I indicated above she asked me as part of a bigger discussion, one that was suggested to me in a PM. We actually started this specific line of discussion by me asking her if she was comfortable now taking the "alpha role" in things with both Paul and I. She giggled and said that she'd recognized this too but hadn't realized that's what she should call it other than her feeling like she was controlling things more. As part of us talking she said that she was enjoying herself a lot and after I'd told her that I was also enjoying her taking the lead with more things sexual, she surprised me and said that she wasn't sure but she "... can't remember feeling this horny in general since before we got married.... you know..." and I did know what she meant - as I've long posted here, she was enjoying quite a promiscuous streak when we first met. I told her that I do sense some of that same "... desire for pleasure..." as I'd seen back then and she giggled a little at that and said that she hadn't realized that was an alpha thing. It led to us, eventually, openly discussing how she felt as an alpha now. It took her a moment to understand what I was saying but then she seemed to get it and she said that she hoped what she was going to say wasn't going to hurt me ".... but I guess as a beta, you probably want to hear it then....". And she proceeded to tell me how her atitude and desire for sex with both me and Paul had changed and how now that she could see how I framed it, that she only then said she began to realize how she had become the alpha. She told me that she likes controlling what she does sexually - and then said it - also what I do and enjoy sexually. She told me that these past 2 years have been really eye opening for her and that she now realizes she can truly enjoy a sexual relationship with Paul.
It was then that she looked at me and asked "Did you know this is how I would feel when you told me you wanted to be the beta guy?". I didn't know what she was talking about but then she continued to talk to me and she said that in the past 2 years or so, yes since starting with Paul but also coinciding with my easy acceptance of him as well as my continued acceptance as things escalated - and then my coming out as the beta (and I do feel it is very much like a gay person coming-out too - in that I am finally accepting what I think I've been feeling for a long time). What she was saying is that her desire for this full-blown-affair never really went away - but as she explained it - and can now put a label to it as her being the alpha, that she says that it's sort of extinguished part of what she'd wanted to feel earlier - that feeling of emotional attachment to her lover. Now she says that "as the alpha" she knows and wants to fulfill the physical parts of that earlier desire. And so she jokingly asked if I'd plotted to become the beta to lead to this change in her desire? I laughed and said I couldn't have possibly know that would happen.
It let to us rehashing a lot of what she'd told me several years ago - of her desire to feel that kind of sexuality and sexual desire again. She said again how she's feeling older and now that we're even talking about retirement at some point as well as her parents frailty that is all weighing on her. I listened and tried to be supportive but it was also pretty clear that after harboring this desire now for so many years, that I wasn't going to really be able to chang her mind on it. She told me quite openly as I'd already said about how she felt sharing herself so easily and freely with him that when I realized how I'd responded to her about that stuff, that it was also signaling her that I was likely going to feel the same about this. At point she said that it wasn't easy for her - and I know I've shared that thought here before but she said more this time, that is makes her uneasy to know she feels this way and that while she knows it does turn me on, that she also knows what she is asking for is very well likely beyond what I had or would find arousing. She looked at me and asked me if would be willing to indulge her. It was part of this talk that led to our discussing what I already also shared about safeguards. I told her that i wasn't totally convinced yet and that I still had concerns and that was when she asked about us doing a monthly check-in with each other to talk openly like we were then.
I should have added above and will add now that she said "I'm not saying we're going to have sex then...." and she proceeded to say that's the exact thing she doesn't want to feel - that obligation or scheduling of what she will have to be intimate with me. She assured me that it will happen (and I realize now that it may happen as it did yesterday, as something perhaps when Paul is away or busy) but that she didn't want to feel that it was something she had to think ahead of time about.
The way she explained it to me - once we'd started to talk more openly was that she said something she'd said back when she wanted the whole big affair, that she wants to feel as though she "should be having sex with Paul" and that she wants to feel that it's something unexpected and a surprise if it happens with me. I asked her how she felt when we do have sex together and that's when she came out with the "confused" comment - which she explained to me that she always seems to orgasm when we have sex and she knows that's a good thing and she readily admits that to this day, she still thinks my cock fits in her best - but at the same time - she is almost infatuated with wanting sex with Paul and that "it is now just as good as with you baby" in all ways save for how I think my overall thick cock still makes her feel the best. She said that it was the hardest thing for her to do to ask me to abstain with her but she said that Paul and I feel different and make her feel different and when she's really getting into it with him, that when she's with me and I pull her in a different direction, that she says she feels like it's not the right thing to do and that once she is really into it with him after September, that as she said long ago, that she wants to feel almost as if she's cheating on Paul if she has sex with me.
We talked a bit more about that and she asked me how that made me feel to know she might be thinking that way. I told her that it turned me on and she took the moment to tell me "that's how the beta part of you feels" and she asked me if that was what I wanted and if I still wanted to be the beta.
We took an interesting change of direction at that point when I asked her what she wanted as the alpha. She giggled and said that she'd not really thought about it and she in turn looked at me and asked the same thing. She then reminded me of what I'd said I'd wanted "remember, you told me you wanted me to look to Paul for my sexual desires..... is that still true now?". We went back and forth as I asked her how she felt now as the alpha and what she felt she wanted. And over the next 30-40 minutes I guess, we both sort of opened up about things. She told me that she likes it very much when I'm with her and Paul while they're having sex and she said that part of the reason she loves that is that she knows it turns me on but more so that she likes the feeling of having me watching her and her knowing that's all I"m doing. She admitted that her alpha-mind as she began to call it enjoys denying me - she admitted that it started out because she knew it turned me on, but now she admits that denying me in general turns her on very much at times and that now that I was bringing it all out in the open, she said that she didn't want to always feel that she was walking on eggshells around me and having to worry about upsetting me or hurting my feelings if she didn't want to have sex with me. It was quite frank but also long overdue. She told me that in many ways I had no one to blame but myself for some of what I was feeling if I didn't like it. That between all I'd asked her to do and made clear that I enjoyed her doing plus "you wanting to be the beta" that she asked me again what I expected was going to happen other than to fuel her desires again.
Now, it wasn't all cold at all - far from it in fact. Part of her thoughts she shared with me was that she didn't feel this was dangerous to us at all. "If you minded not fucking me, it'd be one thing, but you don't mind it.... I know that.... " and she said again how her feeling the alpha role had let her understand that just because I enjoyed her fucking Paul so much, that it didn't mean anything else - she looked at me and said "I know you don't want to lose me or me to leave you" and she added "I hope you know I feel the same way.... that just as you want me to enjoy this, I want you to". She again told me how "it's not going to last forever with Paul" but admitted that it could be something she wants to feel with him for a longer period of time. I asked her what that meant and she said that she wasn't sure how long she was going to want this period with Paul. "Surely a few months....." and I knew there was more and she added "but if it's working for both of us, then I don' t know baby....". So again, it made it easy to reinforce the need for us to talk very openly - again at that 4 week mark.
Of course the tide turned back to me and I knew it was my turn to fess up about how I felt and what I wanted as the beta. Just as she'd told me so much that I'd heard in other ways I too seemed to have the same things to share. I told her how scared I was when I first admitted to my emerging feelings but then made her smile with how I said I felt afterwards and how it seemed to make me a lot more at ease. She agreed and said that not long afterwards that she too felt a change in me. I told her that I felt a growing ease of accepting that I was going to be playing a diminishing role for her sexually and that it turned me on. We talked very openly about condoms and she asked me how I felt about them. I think I surprised her by saying that it now felt right for me to use them and it wasn't easy for me to tell her that I couldn't be sure that even if she offered me to go bare with her whether I would want to. I told her that it makes me crazy with desire to know that's the only way I will have her now and I made her smile broadly when I told her that I loved the feeling of using them with her and I admitted that it really tweaked my beta-needs to know that 'm not cumming in her and that I am deliberately and intentionally doing it so that only Paul gets to cum in her. I knew she would ask me how that made me feel and it took me a moment to collect my thoughts. I told her as a beta that I enjoyed her sexuality, maybe even more, by watching and being there vicariously rather than actually participating. Yes I repeated what caused so much flaming a few weeks ago when I told her again that there were times when I preferred masturbating to having sex with her. I told her that while I wasn't prepared to lose her, that I was incredibly aroused at the thought of Paul taking possession of her sexually.
I was honest though, i told her that I had times and moments and thoughts where I still felt I had some of my alpha desires and needs. She was very close and held me and told me she understood - she said that she too felt points where she wasn't sure of things. I told her how I still had thoughts and feelings that this isn't what a real-man wants and that I shouldn't be so cavalier about everything and that sometimes it got me very concerned about not having sex with her. She giggled and said what I've seen other say "is it really so important for you to cum while you're in me?" and she said she knew that there was a lot of feelings in all of this for me but that she really needed to understand if it's something more physical where I truly need to feel her vagina when I orgasm - or whether it's more in my head. I told her as best as I could that sometimes, yes, my hand was wonderfully satisfying but I also told her that I didn't think it was going to be good for us if we never fucked again or if it was a long time.
As has happened before when we've talked like this, she held my hand and promised me that it wasn't going to be that long and that she was sure I was going to be okay and she said "I know baby, it's not good for either of us to go too long" and as we talked she said that she thought that no matter what, after a few weeks that she too was going to need to be with me. As she put it "no matter what baby, I still need you". When I pushed her a bit we actually both talked about how long a "long time" was. I told her that as we've started to talk and as "it starts to get closer" that I'd been thinking that at least once every 6 weeks or so that it was going to be something we had to do for ourselves. She was honest and she said that we can talk at 4 weeks as we agreed to and we can talk then about whether it'll be at 6 weeks. I looked at her and she said that she was thinking more like 8 weeks or so and she smiled and said "that would mean we'd be together for New Years Eve too honey". I told her that it made me scared to think that way, that we may only have sex like 2 times after September gets here. She held my hands and asked me what scared me about that and I went right back to how I didn't think it was how I should feel or what a man should want. But she looked at me and asked me "but baby, is it what you want?". I told her honestly that it scared me to say yes and I told her that it scared me to think of maybe only making love to her maybe 5 or 6 times in total next year.
That was when she surprised me and said "I honestly don't think it's going to last that long baby!" and she was emphatic when she said to me that "I just want to feel what it's like baby" and that she couldn't think herself of it lasting more than a few months into 2017.
Steve, that was another great update. You may find that the time with limited intercourse and what could become infrequent intercourse will become easier over time if this does become something that you both truly find enjoyable together. I think you BOTH will be very surprised at how your intimacy across the relationship spectrum will increase as the time goes by while you two are exploring this aspect of the lifestyle.
- Status
