New Year, New Thread

[raksdeer]

STB, if my posts come as "distortion", please understand that I am not doing it deliberately. May be there are gaps in my understanding of your narrative. And I do not put "my spin" on things. This is what I perceive and hence I write. And please "dimming" and all that...spare me the logic. There are no absolutes in the world. None. What I write is based on what I perceive from your tale. Please re-read post 404 (reproduced below) and tell me if I am wrong:

"To put it bluntly, she said she hoped it didn't hurt me but that I should hear the truth if that was what I wanted. And she proceeded to tell me that she doesn't want to have sex with me right now. I looked at her and she said "not just right now honey, but all the time" and she proceeded to tell me how it'd started a while back, even before Paul - how she'd begun to feel a little of this with Robert. "But then, when you talked about this beta thing" she said that it took her a while to realize it was the same thing she'd been feeling just from her side."

So I asked her - what does this mean for us? She looked at me and as if it it were nothing she said "so, you won't get to have sex with me" and then she looked at me and said "this is what you wanted all along, it's what you were pushing me towards for so long, and isn't this truly what you wanted as the 'beta'?". I told her no, that wasn't right but she stopped me and asked me if I was just responding or if I had really thought about it. She held my hand and said that we can go on as we are and still have sex like we are, and she even said that we can keep things as they are with me having her bare every few weeks. But she looked at me and said "so you need to tell me how you feel" and I asked her "but if we do that, then you're telling me it's something that you would rather not do?!" She nodded slowly and said "Yes" and that she's sorry she wasn't totally honest with me. She said that she definitely still loves my cock and loves having sex with me and yes, she most definitely still orgasms with me. But she looked at me and said that while she enjoys it and would surely do it because she knows I enjoy or need it, she said that "being honest, it's not something I find myself wanting". She said that yes, when we're away or we're alone or romantic, that "it'll happen then baby, we'll still have sex" but she added that it's not something that she finds herself thinking about or wanting when Paul is in the picture."

She admits not being honest with you. She admits things that bring you to tears and it is me that you blame. What I write here is based on what you've told me. I would never push or cheer you along a path that I think is wrong for you - just to see another cuck going into deep end.

 

[SoonToBe]

Raks, I think it's that you put a dark spin on things when I don't feel she is doing this nearly as intentionally or as cunningly planned as others here may think. I've heard her talk and I know it hasn't been easy on her to figure herself out and what she wants. What you read into being something that seems harsh, drastic or alternatively, not needed, I see differently. You paint what she said that you highlighted as something is condemning of her sexual desires with me - I rather see her as feeling as though she can say what she is feeling and yes, I guess I'm a little hurt by her desires for Paul, I don't see it as negatively as you do where she says she has no feelings for me or doesn't want me. I see it rather as she has explained it - it makes her feel very fulfilled to be thinking this way and to feel herself wanting something so sexual. I actually see her sense of fulfillment in that way as being somewhat equated to how it makes me feel to want to use a condom with her.

I noted that you didn't highight the next sentence after "...wasn't totally honest with me.". Why not? She admits to still loving and enjoying my cock and wanting sex with me - so it's not that. She is focused on Paul right now and I suppose why not indeed. He now clearly knows her probalby better than I do given how infrequent we are together now. And I'm sure that she likely feels with him like she did with me when we'd been together 2 years (25 years ago) where it feels so comfortable that it is sometimes all you can think of. So why should I stand in her way of enjoying that feeling? Is it so bad to admit that I even enjoy it?

Sure I"m being stoic when I'm going to take a deep breath and admit I am surely going to miss intercourse with her. It's a huge step and for as much as I previously adamantly did not want to experience, I admit to changing my view. I surely don't want to lose her but I do want the feeling that she wants him sexually and will deny me. I can't explain how it feels to know I will be giving it up - and voluntarily too it seems - but at the same time, as Far2 and Squirm and others seem to know, it feels amazing too. But I also know it will not be forever - that un-highlighted sentence again where when things end with Paul, as I think I now know they will eventually, will be where she wants to return to.

So again - yin/yang - light/dark - up/down - in/out - always 2 sides and while I see one side, you continue to see the opposite one.

 

[peakmb]

Steve, your semi reluctant acceptance that you will agree to Sue's plans is no surprise. Your apparent refusal to consider adopting some sort of safety system is no surprise either. At each step so far on your journey you have trusted that the two of you would stay and play safe. At each previous step though you had some joint responsibilities. Not this time if Sue has her way. In previous attempts by Sue to greater extreme she has proved incapable of holding her promises. Only your strong intervention has brought her round. The latest was only a few months ago. There are several other instances where she just could not 'snap back' to give you any real loving consideration. I cannot see how you have faith she will do so this time. Some previously agreed communication system that protects you both from lasting harm is clearly needed. What would you consider to be the minimum required?

 

[SoonToBe]

Peak, I know its' been an issue in the past with her and that's partly why I'm wanting her to talk with me as much as she is about it. I do think that my expectations are different now than they were in the past. Taking the ski-trip as an example. I expected and looked forward to being with her afterwards and was hurt when it didn't happen. This time, based on what we've talked about, I know not to expect that sort of thing. Yes, it stings a bit to know that at times like that, that I won't be enjoying her afterwards like I would in the past, but also think that knowing this ahead of time, will make it easier. I already expect that I won't be having sex with her after Paul is here with us tomorrow night. To Far2's earlier suggestion and my earlier thoughts, knowing this or thinking this way will definitely make it easier on me and likely more enjoyable for all of us as I think Sue picks up on my feelings when I find myself waiting for her as I know i have been in the past.

Regarding how frequently I think we're going to need to have sex in the future - I am going to say honestly that without my pressuring her as I may have been in the past (explicitly or implicitly) that I think the minimum I could take is maybe every 8 to 10 weeks and I have to say I am shuddering in a way at that thought of 2 to 2 1/2 months without penetrating her. But I think that is where the boundaries are for both of us as she has made it clear to me that she feels the need too - and that the longer it goes, she admits the more she feels it. It may not be a sexual desire she feels which I know is something a lot of people think is a bad thing, but rather a more physical need to simply feel me. I know that in a way I feel the same way - when she asked me about masturbating vs. intercourse, when she offered up that I could enjoy her pussy, it did make me feel good because I think that part of the physical connection is perhaps more important than whether I cum in her - its that she and I feel as one as we connect intimately. Whether she doesn't reach or even may choose to withhold her own orgasm, I still think she feels the physical need just as I do.

 

[tegelad]

If you are happy ... we are happy. I suggest you spend the next two months getting used to Beta role with self pleasure being your primary method. After that if things work ok, then you may want to look at self pleasure like the main event, and state that you will only orgasm and have fun when in her presence. It is important for you (and others) to remember she is the Alpha ... what you do needs her approval.

I understand the waters are getting hot ... and you are the frog/toad in the pan of water. Just remember your fantasies revolved around this, and she is delivering on the goods in spades.

So I would suggest for the remaining part of the year, you spend time getting used to the withdrawal, and try some other fun denial all but in her place situations. Remember you are the beta ... her pleasure is what matters, and how you take care of her emotional needs. Be thankful for any shared orgasming together ... you will be practicing more of a conditioned karezza approach while she gets to have her cake and eat it too ...

For another guy that was a sub with his girl who was uncomfortable, I stated to her how many orgasms did you have in the say the last 3 months (I had them tell me without the other letting me know) ... and then I asked him how many did you .... (of course his was way higher). I stated lets call this an orgasm equalization program ... her guilty feelings went away ....

As for you ... some eye candy and deep thoughts ... First one is a picture and a statement with verbal cue when you started this path ... the second picture represents without words what she is telling you

 

[peakmb]

Steve, I suspect you misunderstood quite what I was saying and thus why you need to protect yourself. Last year and this year in February, Sue PROMISED you a reconnection after an extended time with Paul. It wasn't that you were expecting it and didn't get it. That would have been your fault. It was that you were promised a reward for going without your wife's attentions for a specific period and Sue not only didn't deliver, she made it fairly obvious that she really didn't want to deliver. It was only after you threw the teddy out of the pram that she even seemed to realise just how serious that was and started to recover her position. To this day I'm still not sure whether that recovery was purely from love or expediency. I suspect and I believe you do to it was a bit of both. This time the stakes will be higher, the time gap is greater, the bond she will form with Paul greater, and her need to reconnect is in great danger of being less for a time. Far from building within her, the need to reconnect could atrophy if you aren't careful. I really believe that you will get desperate and worried before Sue snaps and needs you in the way you will need her. I could be completely wrong, she may need you before you need her, pigs might fly but if I am even close to right, you really need a mechanism to call a pause in the game and recover, or at least talk seriously. I say again, what safeguards do you think you need?

 

[raksdeer]

There won't be any safeguards Peak. He won't listen.

 

[SquirmingSub]

At the least, Steve and Sue are having much more open and honest discussions with each other. The two of them will find what works best for them during this next phase of the relationship. Lets all hope that Steve and Sue enjoy the journey as a couple from each of the respective perspectives. Looking forward to hear how this weekend goes.

Steve, Have a great weekend and enjoy.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, she is getting ready as Paul is due here in about an hour. I'm a bit on edge as a lot of this is now all that is on my mind and I am sure to read or feel more this time with him here than I think I have in the past.

For Peak and Raks, I did ask her about what you call safeguards. Last night in bed I told Sue that I thought the thing I was most worried about, aside of the obvious, is how we are going to know if this is going okay for both of us. It was my way of bringing it up without sounding like I'm over-thinking it. As I expected, she asked me what I meant and I did have the presence of mind to tell her that "assuming we go forward with what you want....." and I led up to asking her "....what if it's not working for you" and then I emphasized "OR ME".

She paused for a moment and asked me what wouldn't work and she told me that I should be talking to her and telling her if I"m not liking what is going on, or if it is something that is maybe "too much" for me and she admitted that she to this day felt bad about the time with Paul at our house when she was playful with him and she led him to chase her naked out of our room and around the house trying to tickle her. She turned to me and said "I still feel bad about that" - which I have to say, did make me feel better. But I actually told her "no, I was thinking about maybe some kind of limits to just make sure things don't get out of control" and when she asked I told her that maybe we should limit things to no more than one or two nights in a row for them. She looked at me and was quiet for a moment and then said "Oh.... I understand" and she looked at me and said "sure, we can have that as a rule" and she agreed that it was something sensible. i also looked at her and said that I didn't want to feel at all like she was moving in with him and she giggled and said that she hadn't really thought about this sort of stuff but now that I was mentioning it, she said she was realizing that it is something we should talk about.

I'm going to cut this short right here for now to go spend some time with her and enjoy the last hour or so before he gets here.

 

[SoonToBe]

Okay - he's here and after spending 20 or so minutes with them, I'm giving them a little time alone down in the den. The TV was on but they were on the couch when I left them and they'd already been kissing, passionately when they thought I wasn't looking. My cock is rock hard right now anticipating later tonight. And as an interesting feeling to share, knowing I'm not going to have her tomorrow will surely let me enjoy tonight much more as I am already somewhat eagerly looking forward to hopefully enjoying myself alongside them.

The only thing she said to me that was overtly sexually teasing before he got here was when she whispered that I should maybe see how I feel tonight not expecting anything.

She has on just a nice pair of jeans and a button-up top, but underneath it she has on those boy-shorts kind of panties that make her butt look delicious (and gives her just a tease of a camel toe) and a matching bra that is mostly lace/sheer on the top part.

I am honestly feeling that if I am going to go along with all of this, that I am going to want to be there when they are getting started (and yes, getting naked) in our bedroom later on. So right now, I'm going to go back downstairs (being a bit noisy on the steps) so I can see if they want anything and to see if it feels okay for me to hang around with them, or whether I'm going to be waiting till the come up to the bedroom.

For tonight, I am trying to put my fears and concerns out of my head and try to let myself enjoy things and yes, let myself start to see how it may feel to be with them and a part of things and to know that I'm not going to get a turn with her.

 

[peakmb]

Enjoy your night and tomorrow Steve - and try to find out just how informed Paul is about progress.

 

[raksdeer]

Well see, you did talk about safeguards and still you see I was right. There are and will be no safeguards. It essentially makes this as your choice. So whatever good or bad happens will be your doing. Sue is just delivering on your wishes.

The conversation on safeguards actually went interesting towards the end..


I ials looked at her and said that I didn't want to feel at all like she was moving in with him and she giggled and said that she hadn't really thought about this sort of stuff but now that I was mentioning it, she said she was realizing that it is something we should talk about.

Sounds that you are in for more STB.

 

[Knk069]

"...I didn't want to feel at all like she was moving in with him and she giggled and said that she hadn't really thought about this sort of stuff but now that I was mentioning it, she said she was realizing that it is something we should talk about."

Very interesting. Hard to figure out how that should be taken. It's great that you brought it up and put it out there so you can discuss. On one hand it sounds like she might have been thinking about spending a lot of time at his place. Then the discussion will amount to a negotiation on how many nights/nights in a row will be okay. On the other hand, maybe she really wasn't thinking about how much time she would spend there just looking forward to a lot more sex throughout the week. Good luck with the discussions. We will be anxious to hear how it goes.

I hope you are having a good time tonight.

 

[raksdeer]

Yes, in fact Sue can be Paul's wife for 5 days while staying at his place and visit STB on Saturdays and Sundays to reconnect ( in non-sexual ways that is and while kids are not at home)

 

[tegelad]

STB ... if you are comfortable in your beta status, I think what you should talk to the Alpha and do a living swap to enforce your beta status for one week. You can treat it like I am gone for an office trip for the week ... remember the alpha bedroom is for alphas not betas. If you are concerned for her safety or what not ... I would suggest a dropcam pro so you can live and masturbate in true beta status ... your wife could literally be your personal star. Recommend a camera in the bedroom and one in the general living area ...

It is time for you to rise to the true beta you are ... embrace the status through this year and let your wife expand her alpha role more. The angst you are feeling is just that you will enjoy it that much ... so let go of the fear ... and let you and your wife enjoy the fun!

 

[tegelad]

Yes, in fact Sue can be Paul's wife for 5 days while staying at his place and visit STB on Saturdays and Sundays to reconnect ( in non-sexual ways that is and while kids are not at home)

Refresh the screen and I see you are saying the same thing .... I agree with you totally on this. If I were in charge, I would make sure if they did the suggestion of place swap during that time, that there be plenty of pictures of Paul and Sue in couples pictures around the apartment for STB to see.

 

[Enigma632]

I know that it was some time ago now, but at Christmas didn't Sue give Steve some sex vouchers for "when he needed it"?

She has been planning a long way ahead

 

[peakmb]

Interesting point Enigma. At the time Steve seemed to treat them as pointless in that he could not foresee using a voucher to force Sue into doing something she wouldn't otherwise want to do. This recent development does put a new spin on it though as Sue is now dictating his sex life without reference to him so he might feel the vouchers are now fair game. It's a long way from consensual fun either way...

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, he left a little while ago, not before they spent another 2 hours up in the bedroom just after a late breakfast.
I'm not sure where to start other than to laugh at the silliness of the earlier posts about her spending so much time when I guess I didn't make it clear but she readily agreed to spending no more than 2 nights with him in a row.
She is outside right now doing some gardening work while I am "doing stuff for work". I know that a lot of people want to know what went on last night and how it all went so I suppose the best place to start is to tell what Paul and I talked about when I went back to see the 2 of them. I guess they'd been talking about this for a while because after a bit, Sue left the room and Paul came out and said that he wanted to talk to me. He said that he wanted to hear me tell him that I knew that Sue wanted to "up things between them" after the summer. He proceeded to tell me that he thinks Sue is great, awesome and then he looked at me and said "and she's just amazing in bed", but he continued to tell me that he didn't want to do something that would be without me knowing it. He said that she is the one pushing for "more between them" and that he wanted to be sure I knew.

Believe it or not, I asked him what he wanted and what he thought. He said that he understood that we were into kinky stuff and he then he said that "I know she's also said that sometimes, you know, it doesn't always work" and he said so "me being what, like 9 years younger than you, well....". It took me a minute to realize that she must have told him that as part of why she wants more with him so I sort of played along and said "yeah, and I have to avoid the little blue pills because of my blood pressure" and he said "oh, I was wondering". As he talked to me he said that he really enjoyed sex with her and that I guess thinking I really had a bit of a reason, he seemed to feel more at ease. He told me that he loved that she couldn't get pregnant and he said at several points as we talked that he loved that he could go bare with her and he joked at one point that she'd ruined him for other women. I laughed but asked him what he thought he was going to be doing longer term, a few years out. He smiled and he said that he knew what I was asking and he looked at me and said that he "hoped to still be fucking her then" but that he added "what's the odds on that?" and he looked at me with a kind of question on his face. I told him that I thought Sue was liking getting more comfortable with him which made him smile and then I asked "what do you want?" and he looked at me and he said "oh.... oh man, don't be thinking I'm going to want her...." and he moved closer to me and he sort of stood there and he seemed calm but focused and he said "this is all fun and all" and he laughed and said "my god she is amazing" but then looked at me and said "I don't want her in any way that you should worry about" and he laughed and said "if you don't mind the sex with her, then man, that's all you should care about" and after he paused he looked at me and said "I'll be happy to keep her happy" and he paused for one more moment and he said "but that's all dude....". I asked her if she knew what he was saying to me and he said "yeah, I tell her all the time that we can have a blast together but that she's your wife".

More later.

 

[raksdeer]

It seems that you are.more or less giving up Sue permanetly sexually. He is going to provide all the fun that Sue needs for years. I wonder how it could not and will not grow into a deep emotional bond.