New Year, New Thread

[SquirmingSub]

STB, have you lost your mind? You actually told Sue it feels better to fuck your own hand than it does her pussy? She is being more stern with you because you have pissed the lady off! Your admission had to have hurt her more than you realized and she is responding like any woman would who has been hurt in such a personal way. I have a feeling Sue is going to give you every opportunity to develop a truly deep relationship with your hand.

Judging by the things Sue said, though it is difficult to know for certain through the written word, there seemed to be a tone of anger in her blunt statements to you. It appears that your lack of response to her statements might have only fueled her resolve further to hurt you some in return.

Jax,

You have a point in this one, not every woman would be accepting of being told this by her husband. His answers to her questions may have indeed helped her take the next step, may have given her the additional motivation and strength to move forward with her own expressed desires.

 

[Pnisnvnh]

Well, l am glad Sue was forth coming on her wanting this for a while. Because following this it shows that cutting you off has been a year long process and her true agenda. I've seen this in the DomHW / Sub cuck group we belong too, it’s called slow reduction. Sue must being getting coached by someone on this also.

Also her comment of "When it happens it will just happen and be easy to do" That’s because that was the plan, slowly reducing you from sexual intercourse to masturbation. A year ago you weren't regularly masturbating but waiting for her and you were getting condom sex regularly 6-8 times a month. Now you are masturbating regularly and reduced to 1-2 condom fucks a month. Now her next step is asking you during those 1-2 condom fucks a month to pull out and finish yourself off for her, basically reducing you to having all your orgasms with your hand so at that point come September when she says its time to do it and you are still unsure about it she will say that you really are all ready cut off because since June your orgasms have been 100% your hand on 0% from her or her pussy.

 

[SquirmingSub]

RAK,

AZSurfer77 does make many good points through this written observation most of which appear to be squarely based on Steve’s own posted threads leading up to this point. It is good to see a new face in the group that are now following Steve's threads. Maybe he will give all of us a new perspective

 

[peakmb]

Steve,

You need to face the reality of your current situation, you have ended up in a poor negotiating position partly by not focusing on any end game, partly by thinking unclearly while sexually excited and partly by being outmanoeuvred by Sue. How easily you move forward depends entirely on where you really want to go and how you want Sue to perceive you when you get there.


At the moment Sue is playing you like an expert angler landing a 25lb fish on a 10lb line. You swallowed the hook, you even made the hook and gave it to her. Every time you kick back, Sue just feeds you more line before reeling you back in again ever closer to the net. You could spit out the hook but you really don’t want to, you could really push and break the line, but again I suspect that you currently feel more comfortable on the line than not. What you seem to want to be able to choose when you will finally end up in the net, which is a function of how much effort you make in escaping and how determined Sue is in reeling you in. The end, to me seems inevitable. Maybe you just enjoy the illusion that still swimming gives you, but it will end. What happens then is up to you both but Sue seems to be thinking it all through at the moment so perhaps she will just tell you if you can’t work it out.


I said earlier that there are emotional differences between how you come. Saying you only want your hand is pretty bleak in that it is saying you don’t want to sexually please your wife and you can do better with your hand. The correct response to Sue saying she only wants to fuck Paul is to accept it but define fuck as an unemotional sexual activity, and say that you still desperately and unwaveringly still want to make love to your wife. Squirm has already alluded to the possibility that Sue already attaches some emotional content to the fucks she has with Paul. If she sees these as superior to the love making she has with you then you are already in a very poor place, but you would do well to at least know this now. So again I say that your penetration with Sue should not stop but could be restricted to times of mutual connection. Either on some timetable that perhaps says no longer than x weeks or something that says x times in 6 months. The thing is you need to be able to call one in as much as Sue. These are not booty calls that compete with Paul (or shouldn’t be), they are emotional connections between the two still equal parts of your relationship. The issue of condoms is in truth not relevant except in your heads. You clearly get an almost equal (but different) satisfaction either way with the greater feeling without being offset by the desired angst from denial when in use. You always need to remember that this is not the case with Sue who has always need a deeper connection when NOT using condoms. For this reason you need to ensure that some of your lovemaking does not use them, even though you yourself don’t see that need.


You know two things already as you approach September. One is that you will finally accept Sue’s trial on some terms, mostly in her favour. You know your head is in no state to deny her this even if you are unsure of the consequences at the moment. Inside, you want to try it too at some level so you may as well negotiate terms rather than fight it outright. Second is what you already know is the likely danger point. When Sue goes any extended time with just her lover, she finds it difficult to reconnect to the point where she avoids it. She will try to turn down or delay your agreed connections. She will try to extend her time and connections with Paul by overnight or multi night stays as well as all the little things like leaving more clothing at his house and using special underwear only for him, or him first. In my view this is because Sue starts to make more of an emotional, loving connection during these times and doesn’t want to break the spell going back to you. Your negotiations before September need to deal with this issue, maybe by using a red flag word if you think she is behaving in this way. A mechanism that calls time out on the whole thing until you sort it out between you. You probably need a yellow flag too that tells Sue she is stressing you but not yet to the point of time out.


Luckily you have time before then to go into this new and experimental phase with your eyes open and your agreements in place. I do think it does mean that talks have to start soon though because it may take some time to come a mutually agreed position. Finally I would say that Paul shouldn’t be involved or even aware that you are doing this. Maybe at the end Sue could tell him what is agreed but I believe you need to know that he is not influencing Sue’s stance. Paul in particular needs to accept your use of the flags which could affect any of his agreed plans with Sue at any time and which he could not influence.

 

[far2easy]

Why not go with it, try it out, enjoy the ride, who knows when it comes to an end?! Maybe this is something that you thoroughly enjoy, makes you even more beta and brings you 2 closer! I'd just make sure you talk about being more included in their interractions and that she is okay with including you in cleaning their sex. It will be your thing, not his, something that is still special between you and Sue. I wonder what she thinks of that?

 

[raksdeer]

Sue will again ask you the same question "what did you expect?".

 

[Knk069]

Steve,

Ouch! That discussion on the weekend must have hurt. I'm glad she came back and backtracked some of the harshness. However, my experience is that when someone is under stress they turn off the "Will what I say hurt/offend" filter and say what they honestly want and intend to do. Later, after the stress is relieved they try to make amends or soften the hurt. Be careful and make no mistakes - what she said is what she feels.

 

[Knk069]

Steve, many of the commentators seem to agree that you are destined to go along with Sue's demands to essentially completely cut you off sexually so only Paul gets to have her. It just seems inevitable once you give in. It must be very scary. So I understand your reluctance.

Is part of your reluctance a lingering fear due to Sue's history of falling in love with (or emotionally attached to) her lovers? I think she has been with seven guys since you started and has been in love/emotionally attached to four.

She fell in love with Brad and said she would have seriously considered leaving you if he wanted to leave his wife. She was so attached to Don she went way beyond her, and your, comfort zone to keep the relationship alive. She was so in love with Robert that she wanted to give him a baby but regretted the that she couldn't, which partially led to the breakup.

Now there is Paul. She sometimes admits a strong emotional attachment and denies being in love. Yet she often acts like someone "in love". I believe her behavior that led to the blowup in February and her initial reaction when you object to it was driven by being in love with Paul. A love connection that was growing due to her exclusive fluid bonding with Paul. Fortunately she was/is also in love with you so she has changed her behavior and took steps to pull back from the emotional/love connection they had then.

Could a big part of your struggle be a fear they still have smoldering embers of that love connection that will erupt into a full blown flame once she totally excludes you sexually? Her history suggests that it is possible. But it also shows she loves you and wants to keep you.

 

[Enigma632]

Hmm.... "those few times which she's said "will be every few weeks,"....

Anyone other guys here think that "a few" means different things to us and women?
I imagine that Steve thinks 2 to 3 while, based on the recent past Sue will be thinking 8 to 12 weeks....

Anyway, I mostly agree with peakmb's timing suggestions, but think that this may be the start of the end for Sue and Paul.

We have already heard how Sue wants to do more to "keep things fresh" with Paul, and whilst he's clearly enjoying the sex with Sue other distractions have crept in to take precedence (e.g. golf with his buddies).
Once Sue has given him the last thing that she can, i.e. totally depriving her husband of her pussy and spending as much time as he wants at his place, and assuming that he still has no interest in anything more permanent then there's nothing else for him to want.

As we all know it's the anticipation of wanting something that's the sweetest (for Alphas or Betas) like kids after a toy, once they have it and play with it for a while it starts to loose it's shininess and something else can become the thing that they want.

So I think that Sue will deprive Steve of her pussy for a while but that ultimately it will only be up until Christmas. As for the New Year, who knows?

 

[peakmb]

Hijack alert! After over 900 posts, mostly on STB's threads, I finally decided to post some content of my own. I had many captions on cuckoldplace but left that site some time ago, some new stuff is now here on the captions thread. I'm only putting this up here (and once) because so many of my sparring partners and companions have been here with me for years. It just gives some a chance to savage me back if you want to!

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, I read what everyone wrote and I guess there's a lot of truth in it all.
We've obviously continued talking about things as we've been home a lot - she will be seeing him over this weekend as neither of our kids will be anywhere close-by over the holiday weekend as both have plans to be elsewhere. She either wants him to come to our house and she's said that it's been a while since he's been here and she added "and since you were there with us" or that she wants to spend the night at his place.

I wanted to clarify here as I also did with Sue that it is only at times that masturbating is more satisfying or better than having intercourse with her. I don't think that's really a surprise to any guy who has an imagination, but I do agree that she may have taken it, initially, as something implying more - but as we talked I explained that sometimes I can put myself in a place mentally that is very intense. She said she understands and that she feels the same about using her toys sometimes, that sometimes, as she said, she just "needs a womans touch". But she then asked me what I liked to think about and what thoughts really "get you off" and I am sure she heard me hesitate before I told her that they always involved her and her pussy being filled by another guy which made her giggle.

And yes, to the question of whether I am worried about her losing herself with Paul somehow. I am comforted that things do seem to be as she says they are, I don't see signs of excessive communication bewteen them other than a few texts during the week which she makes clear to me (mainly when she giggles and will then tell me "Paul is horny" or something like that). But yes, I also recognize that she doesn't always make herself fully aware of just how she's feeling, especially if she is feeling swept up by things and that sort. I've told her this so it's really of no use since her reply is always "but I don't want that with him, I just want.....".

I told her again though that it hurt to have her come and literally just tell me that this is going to happen and make it like I'm not even being given a choice. Although Peak is also clearly right, I probably would never say no to her, and to Raks sentiments, I probably would keep saying yes even if it's too late - so I am aware of that risk - but also the eventuality that if this is truly something that she wants - and if it's something that doesn't totally freak me out at thinking about, then how could I possibly ever say no to her? I'm not saying that in a bad way but I love her and if she is being honest with me and I see no reason she isn't, then as I said, how could I ever say no to her knowing that it turns me on enough to consider it in the first place.

That is what I was referring to here and elswehwere (PM's and emails) when I said that I think we are seeing things (or at least I am) from a point that is very different than others or even in our own past. The reality that I know is that she's been fucking other guys now for over 9 years. It came up in our conversation that as she put it, it really is something that is kind of now normal for us, "that you like me fucking other guys" and she admits that in the past few years, this idea has settled and come to rest in her too - that she genuinely likes it and has also taken to enjoying cucking-me and knowing what sexual things seem to touch me more deeply. She said that she already knows that as I said, when I didn't flip out about it and be adamant against it, that she says she already knows that my giving her up sexually is a turn-on for me.

I was speechless at what she said but she looked at me and said "tell me it's not true?". She went on to tell me that she knows it's difficult for me to accept and say out loud or even think about too much. But she also said that is why she's changed her tone with me and how she feels and what she wants, because she's come to understand that about me, that she says she knows that this IS something i want even if I won't admit it.

Last night she told me that she remembers how she felt at first when she was with other guys - that she said she remembers needing to hear and know that I wanted it to happen for her - to let herself do it. She said she still has the note I gave her which made me blush to think back to. Thing is she looked at me and said that it's the same for me in some ways that we've traded places and that she feels that if she doesn't push for this, that it's not likely to happen for a longer period of time and she looked at me and said "isn't it easier for you to be okay with when it is me that is wanting it?".

I told her she had my head all turned around and she giggled and said that she was enjoying this time with me and that she was enjoying seeing me having to deal with my thoughts and emotions and fantasies and that she thought it was good thing for me to figure out so that we can know how and what we feel and what we both want.

I continued to tell her though that I wasn't sure this was what I wanted, and the when she looked at me with a question in her eye, I added, okay, or that I wasn't sure "when I would want this" that she said, "it's okay honey, if it's not good between us, then we won't do it" and she turned to me, held my hand and kissed me and said "I meant what I said, we won't do anything you or we aren't ready for" after which she added "but see, we are already talking about it more because of what I finallly said to you".

It seemed like the ice had thawed a bit and she seemed to relax a bit and said that it was very hard for her to tell me what she did but that as she talked to me that she said she saw by my body language and yes, how I responded or didn't respond, that I wasn't horrified by what she was saying and that the more she talked, the easier it became to talk about and for her, to also think about more. She said that she didn't want to do this to hurt me and she even said that she hoped it would turn me on and that we'd be okay while she explored her desires, but she also said that she can't deny how she feels - how she feels it's a good time with Paul - how she feels she's getting older and may not have or want or be able to do this in the future - and lastly - how she said that she feels alive sexually in a way that makes her just seem to love everything so much more. She admitted that when we talked about it being over 9 years that she's been having sex with other guys, that she now says she thinks it's done so much more for her than just having fun, how she's been able to understand herself and her desires and even where or how they originated - and that she truly feels she wants to have this feeling with another guy - that she wants to feel like she is his sexually.

I told her again what I'd said here and elsewhere - that I was scared and hesitant. No I didn't tell her that some of that is surely rooted in how she was with the others and what had happened when she'd felt her own desires. I don't think she would have had a baby with Robert even if she were still able to - I do think that she wanted to be pushed to feel she could have done so and could have made a choice to do so - I'll even say as in enjoying the risk in a way - but I do not believe she ever would have truly done it. Just as I don't believe Don could have truly pushed her to do things she wasn't ready for - and just as I don't believe she truly fell for Brad vs. feeling a new sense of infatuation at enjoying sex in a new way with him. But I kept it that I was scared and hesitant. She did pause and say that she knew what I was feeling and that she smiled and said that " knowing you are okay with it, makes me have none of those feelings baby.... I know what I want...." and she kissed me and she said "it's not going to be bad for us".

No, we didn't talk about how often we would reconnect. I thought about saying it but then thought that it might again seem like I am over thinking things and that maybe she's right - maybe she's pushed us a bit further on this journey and that maybe she's pushed us past another bump in the road by coming out and telling me what she wants vs. asking.

What I keep coming back to is what I want and what I am truly feeling. She struck a nerve when she told me that she knows from how I respond to things that this all turns me on. And she's right. It does turn me on. That one day her body will only be for him does turn me on. I have to say that either she is being truly honest with me and if she is, then how could I really say no to her? Or if she has another motive or goal, that she is being incredibly manipulative and cunning which rightfully scares me - but at the same time - if she is feeling that way, then things aren't good, she is lying and if that's the case - then a part of me actually says fuck-it and go ahead and do it and lets see which is right and which is wrong. But I hate thinking or even having a faint thought about that as I just don't feel that in her. I've long told her that sometimes when we hold hands, that I can feel all of her through her hand and how it feels in mine - and I do feel that - very strongly when she turns to me and holds my hands and reassures me.

I feel like I'm a on a rollercoaster at times, for a while things seem like they are staying the same and at others, it seems like we are careening around a sharp turn or in a sharp dip or a steep rise. I think I keep my emotions in control most of the time but I admitted to her that at times, hearing she wants to give her pussy to Paul puts me into one of those steep drops. The beta part of me isn't scared by this (into the ride) but the other parts of me - what's left of my alpha side, as her husband and as a man - it's just not something you ever think you would want to do or think about. I know from past experience that it's going to be arousing - she's withheld sex from me in the past for a long time, 2 months or more - and I know how it's left me feeling. But now those feelings are more out in the open with her and I also know that it's likely to go for longer and she's right that her pushing a bit has made me more aware and if not yet, soon to be ready to deal with it.

The feelings I have which I haven't shared with her yet - but which sort of also coincide with what she's said about her own desires - is that around the same time that she says she's come to accept her desires with Paul - a year or more ago - that it does seem to coincide with my own mental feelings of accepting using condoms with her as our norm. So I suppose, in a way, it's been since the end of 2014 that I feel I've already ceded her pussy to him. That is what is at the root of it all when I pull on a condom to use with her - it just feels so strange to know that it is true.

And that is the last thing that she is right about, that I surely will need 2 months to sort myself out about all this so she was right to bring it up and force the conversation now if she truly wants this sooner than later. I admit that a part of me wants to cry at times thinking about it, as I said, a part of me feels that as a man I shouldn't want this, but I cannot deny that my tears are falling onto my hard cock.

 

[SoonToBe]

Oh Peak - btw - I enjoyed your captions very much - many of them seemed very pointed to me.

 

[raksdeer]

Sue had been exclusive with Paul and didn't even allowed you to touch her breast - so if she is curious about experimentation, that's already done. This time she wants more. May be I am not wired to understand the answer, but other than humiliation ( not so explicit) I don't understand her motives really. As far as you are concerned, I think at the deepest level, may be you want to experience the pain and angst of loosing her. May be. As I had said earlier, I am now reading your tale with detachment. So, may be like other tales here, yours too would end up like a typical cuck tale.

 

[SoonToBe]

All I can say is that perhaps, to your perspective, the angst/arousal of "losing" her sexually to him is perhaps an accurate description. But the thing that I feel that makes this not the doom and gloom thing you seem to be predicting is that it is her that wants this experience and not Paul who is pushing (pulling) her into this. I know it may seem trivial to you but to me, it means the world. I know what it will mean as a change between us for a while - but at the same time, this is something I feel she wants to do "with me" and not do "to me" - and in that sense, I think it's something I want to do with her knowing it's her own desire that she's shared with me.

I received an email asking me whether, taking sex out of the picture, whether I feel Sue and I have grown and/or grown together/closer through all of this. I have to say that this whole adventure has been somewhat about that I suppose all along, removing sex from our relationship and enjoying and growing the rest of it. If you asked me 9 years ago if I could tell Sue that I wanted to cede sex with her to Paul, I would have shuddered at the thought - but the reality is now that we can and do talk about everything. And it's spilled over outside sex and the bedroom, we have no issues talking about money, family, her parents, our siblings, what we want to do together, vacations, you name it - that is surely a change in that there's just such ease to talk with each other. Similarly, when we are together, I know I feel closer to her - I feel that I appreciate and recognize so much more about her - her sense of humor, the intoxicating smile she has when she's happy, the way her hand feels when she'll scratch my head in bed at night. They're all nothing individually, but together, they surely define us and our relationship and I think, if you didn't know about our kinkiness in the bedroom, you'd think we're a couple of newlyweds in some ways.

I don't write about what she says but she says that when she isn't thinking about sex, that her feelings too have only grown for me and that she too feels the contentment when, for example, we'll have a glass of wine on the deck watching the sunset. She knows and admits that I"m the only one she wants to ever share that with on a permanent basis.

 

[peakmb]

Steve, sometimes you are nothing if not predictable. I knew you would end up going down Sue's chosen path, just as much as I was afraid you would do so without safeguards. I still say you need yellow and red flag positions in place. There will be times after September when you are stressed but excited. When your body is saying no but you don't raise a flag. Sue needs to know that a flag is very real, even Paul needs to know and understand when one gets used. There is a huge danger as you know that once Sue goes exclusive and spends more time with Paul that her heart for a time goes with him too. She has done this so many times in the past she is bound to do it again. Sue is likely to ignore hints and moans from you at these times. She has missed real anguish before so she needs to know what a real flag looks like before real damage can be done. This still puts responsibility on both of you. Sue in ensuring you remain ok in your changed status and you in being honest enough to use a flag from a beta mind position. As I said, now is the time to put this in place. As to the sex, I still believe however much you masturbate you will still be slowly building up a pressure valve behind a need for love making connection. Not fucking. I don't know long you can let that build or how long Sue can. Sue will be releasing some of her lovemaking pressure with Paul whatever she says. You know that in your heart already. It won't be all of it but you are likely to explode first. You need a means of expressing that while staying in beta mode.

In the meantime, thank you for the nice comment and enjoy your summer.

 

[far2easy]

Why not use these 2 months to start working toward "no pussy"? A gradual pulling back so once you get to that point, it is comfortable that way its not abrupt. My guess is that you will both enjoy the mind fuck and it isn't like you aren't going to interact with her and them sexually, it will just be a different sexual interaction...which you both will get off on! Just relax and let Sue lead; it will be fine! Besides, just think how great it will feel when you finally do get back inside her! Just make sure that you get included in her sex and that your "new" sex is mutual so you both enjoy the connection!

 

[SoonToBe]

Far2 - I am pretty sure that is what Sue has in mind for the next few months. Even if she's said that its something we'll decide or do together, I am sure she has a gradual decline in mind for me. I truly feel like my emotions are on that roller coaster too. Last night I will say that as we were falling asleep and I had my hand next to Sue and I could feel her doze off, I was close to tears at one point thinking that I won't be rolling her over and making love with her as we have done for almost 30 years now. But this morning, it feels different - I can look at things more clearly and with a different light to see that it won't be that bad and that I know we have other things that will replace what we are giving up. And I know it' something that we both want to experience. I admit it - yes - it is something I do want to feel. Not losing her - but knowing that she wants parts of her to be only for him.

She asked me last night if Paul should come here tomorrow or if she should go to his place. I told her that I thought he should come here and that it's been a while since I've seen them together. She cautioned me that when he's here, that she is going to want to be with him. She reminded me that with them only seeing each other once a week or so, that she told me "I'm always horny for him" and she added that they'll likely be in the bedroom most of the time as she thought it'd be easier if he came over after dinner tomorrow night. And she added that he'll have all day Saturday for golf and he'd already told her that he could stay later on Sunday this time.

 

[raksdeer]

Far, Will he be back inside her? After he quits? Why would Sue allow that when by her own admission she doesn't feels horny for STB any more. And she has sex with STB only because she feels obliged.

And what a turnaround in months - with both of you wanting connection at times and realizing that it was necessary for marriage to complete denial.

Also, STB, tell us if your tears are for real? Are they? If they are, than is Sue not seeing them? Or is it pain that you want to inflict on yourself? Or is it Sue inflicting pain on you? Why the tears STB?

 

[SoonToBe]

Raks - you continue to distort things. Even with what Sue is asking, she still recognizes that we both will still need and want to reconnect physically at times. Yes, could be less frequent than now, but again you continue to see this as a light-switch - either in the off or on position - I see it more as a dimmer switch - with a lot of area between.

Sue knows that I'm upset at times about what she's asking for - not sure where you missed that as I've said it many many times - but again, you see it as a binary choice - on or off. I've also explained how at times the same thing that can excite me to orgasm can also depress me and bring me to have tear in my eye. Why is that so hard to explain, I think I tear-ed up long ago too when she first started with other guys - so again, you seem to like to put your spin on things that I think is different than what we are experiencing.

 

[Knk069]

Steve,

Hang in there. I am sure there are a lot of emotions going through your head as you so eloquently describe in your posts. I hope the dimmer switch analogy is accurate and not the binary choice Raks seems to believe it will be. There may be times when the dimming may seem like it is "off" and not just "low dim". But the strong relationship you and Sue have should be able to weather your pain. I like the yellow/red flag idea. You will likely need it if she wants this to be longer term (maybe until Christmas break).

Your fear of giving in reminds me of something I experienced with FemDom. A lover and I were experimenting with my FemDom fantasies and having a good time. She was taking cues from me and developing in her role. Then one night she threw down the law - she was tired of following my lead or me topping from the bottom and she was not going to play anymore. It was going to be real! And she clearly meant it. It was very clear. And scary as hell. My fantasies had her taking charge (like she was doing) but until then I had a say in what we did. Now I was faced with losing any control over the situation.

So, to me, it seems as if until now you and Sue have been enjoying your fantasies. She has grown in her role in those fantasies. You have had a say in her exploits to some extent. She seeks to do things that will turn you on. Now she is on the cusp on taking full control and you will lose a say in the most intimate part of your marriage. She will be doing things for her pleasure only. Isn't this what cuckolding is about?