New Direction For 2017?

[SoonToBe]

I've continued this from here: http://slutwives.com/index.php?threads/new-year-new-thread.72390/page-57

Peak - I'll share that my own surprise has been that I truly felt that I couldn't and didn't want to wait till Monday to have her. For me, it was nice to feel that and know that there are apparently some limits that I have or some points that I am pushed to that I feel the need to respond in a non-beta way. And it is surely going to lead me to question her - likely tomorrow evening - about our ski-weekends and my newfound desire and need to have her afterwards and not likely to be able to wait after both weekends with a month in-between. So for me - it's revealed to me that while I thoroughly enjoy the beta status, that I still have some desires in there!!!!

I understand what you are saying and you are correct, I know that while she enjoyed the sex with me, that it was mainly/more-for me and my enjoyment than hers. In the larger scheme of things, you are also correct that this is more like a grain of sand compared to a whole beach, but it does remain a physical connection between us, despite the infrequency. I took her question to be more of asking me to re-confirm my desire and need rose to the level of deviating from what we'd talked about even with the knowledge I had of how she was likely to have felt. I also felt that she asked because given the choice, she would have preferred me to have waited as we had talked - although I admit to being incredibly aroused at how she felt after having been with him that much (I think she also may have preferred to have had a bit less of a hangover maybe).

I am honestly not sure how I am feeling. I mean as you said - if I cannot tolerate being denied after the way I anticipate her being - then it will likely be more than just 6 or so times this year. And honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about that as a part of me had truly wanted to be denied and yet - I also know how I felt and what I needed so - unclear about just what direction things are going to head in just yet.

It remains an ever changing adventure as I think we are both still learning a lot about what we each want and need.

 

[Jaxunman]

I really hate that at times any of us who show concern are labeled gloom and doomers. With that said, I have been following along without really commenting much. Sometimes, a person can be too close to a situation to get a clear picture that can be clearer to those from a distance. When it comes to "your new normal" and whatever benchmark you see you and Sue returning to someday when Her and Paul are over, I don't believe things are near as cut and dried as they may seem. Sue has given you some fairly mixed signals for there to be any certainty about what you will be returning to.

Condoms sex. I know you see it as a gift to her or sacrifice you are making, yet, when you look back at what first initiated the whole topic of condom sex, it was not tied to you being a beta. The examples at the time given by Sue first were reading about it in a story in Penthouse Letters. If memory serves, it was of a couple who got off on the husband's cum being wasted and the different ways they enjoyed disposing of his wasted essence. Another example she gave was of her sister, who had made her hubby wear condoms their whole marriage. I think condoms may be your new norm, no matter how long Paul remains in the picture. Where you see condoms and Sue taking Paul bare as a package deal, I see them as two totally separate things. Sue has already mentioned rather strongly that condoms are something she does not see ever going away. You may have agreed as part of this beta experiment you are currently in, and maybe Sue played on those beta desires to overcome your initial resistance in not wanting to use condoms. It points to perhaps your days of ever being inside Sue bare may have already passed.

You posted that Sue has mentioned from time to time how well you two seem to get along since denial has become a staple of your marriage. Beginning with Robert, Sue began complaining about always feeling an obligation to have sex with you. That is where she began taking small steps in denying you. Then it became an issue again once her and Paul got started. The underlying theme seems to be that Sue always felt a pressure to have sex with you, her husband. To now mention, however casually, about how well she sees you two getting along the less sex you two have, is a bit troubling. Would it now make any sense, from Sue's perspective, to after Paul want to return to normal marital intercourse and risk losing the closeness and getting along so well with you she has now? Maybe I missed it, but there never really was much of an explanation on how or why Sue was feeling all the pressure to have sex with you. In most marriages, the wives usually dictate when sex happens and when it does not. There is nothing really alpha or beta about it (or female led either), it is just the way it is.My own wife is a submissive, yet, when she is not in the mood, sex does not happen.

This is getting pretty long as it is but I am not trying to take anything out of context by only using a couple of things. I really am basing my concerns on the overall tone of what you post and what you report of your and Sue's discussions. The way things look to be headed is your current norm has a good chance of becoming permanent. I don't see any danger to your marriage. I haven't seen those red flags in a very long time. Sue fully admitted, at the time, that Robert was giving her the best sex of her life. Now with Paul, she readily admits Paul pleases her more than you do sexually. Is it such a stretch to contemplate for a minute that at some point Sue simply will say she loves you and always will, she wants to spend the rest of her life with you, but she no longer desires to have sex with you, period? Is that so tough to imagine?

Sorry if that was a bit too blunt. I could see you giving up Sue sexually altogether as a bit like drinking a large bottle of bourbon. Not too bad done slowly and over time, but not something that could be easily accomplished in one gulp.

 

[raksdeer]

Well said Jaxun. These are some of issues I also questioned long back, but then STB stopped posting and a whole lot of cheerleaders came down upon me as to how I had driven him away. I can reproduce the posts and say "See I told you so"...but what the heck...it's not my life. If STB is feeling good, so be it. This too as Peak has said like an addiction.

And yes I too don't get the obligation part and condom part. If it doesn't matters (Condoms) why she is having bare sex with Paul and if she is having bare sex with Paul why can't she offer the same to STB. (It's a different matter if STB wants it or not - but Sue pushing for it sounds humiliating and 'putting stb in his place). Similarly she is not feeling "obligated" towards Paul (there are many instances when she has in her conversation with Paul has remarked that she is doing because Paul was feeling horny...or Paul wanted her to do that..) but she has that sense of "Obligation" towards STB? Doesn't make any sense. But hey as per some of the other regular visitors, their communication and intimacy is increasing (Why the intimacy cannot be sexual is beyond my comprehension...had STB been impotent or a wimp or a non-performer it would have made some sense...but denying a loving husband is really...something which I cannot comprehend).

And like you, I have been labeled as naysayer and something more. That's why I have stopped posting. I do read the thread - but I don't let what STB is going through to my head. There are simply so many inconsistencies in Sue's logic and story that she comes out of the entire narrative as a cruel cuckoldress as against the portrait of a loving wife.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Jaxunman,

Well said, it is good to see a well thought out post which provides a clear assessment along with respective view points. Just as you, I have refrained from posting most of my view points for some time now. It indeed has been an intriguing read following Steve’s journey throughout the years and this transition that Steve has been going through has been very interesting. I for one do not see Sue ending it with Paul any time soon, and as you recalled from prior post, Robert and Paul have brought about a level of sexual satisfaction to Sue which she will not be able to have with a beta. Sue is clearly more sexually drawn to alpha men. I would also agree with you that Sue has made it a slow steady progression to helping Steve become accustom to being denied bare intercourse and to reduce the frequency of intercourse. It will be interesting to see what methods Steve and Sue employ to maintain and build their non-sexual intimacy and how well they will get along with the reduction in sex over time.

SS

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve,

Peak and Jaxunman both have made some very good points. I had also refrained from commenting much recently as there has been a considerable of level of conflicting information (mixed signals) being published. Initially I sat back with the assumption that just maybe this was part of the growth process with associated emotional roller coaster as you and Sue went through what was the next phase of your mutual adventure. As Jaxunman indicated, “Sometimes, a person can be too close to a situation to get a clear picture that can be clearer to those from a distance.”, this can truly be the case with your situation and or that of virtually any situation. Unfortunately as a group of readers we are only able to see/read your interpretation of those fairly mixed signals of Sue’s actions as you have presented them to the forum. I would agree with many of my fellow readers that there does seem to be series of mixed signals when it comes to the approach by Sue as you have framed it.

As you can imagine, while I agree with Peak and Jaxunman in many areas I do have my own take on it.

While I believe that ever couple has their own respective dynamic; with that said what works for one couple may not work for anyone else. I believe that you and Sue have come a very long way since you initially opened up their marriage to include Sue taking other men. We have also seen your mutual lifestyle/relationship dynamic change over the last few years more so since Sue began seeing Paul as you shared your desire with Sue to experience being a beta within their relationship/marriage. First off, I have always said that a couple should always have honest, open and judgment free communication no matter the lifestyle choice being made. These are the same skills required for even the most traditional vanilla relationship/marriage. With that said, it is great that you and Sue seem to be getting better at communicating with each other as this should eventually help with those mixed signals which have been shared through the prior post.

Many of do look back at your history and make comparisons between how Sue is with Paul as opposed to how Sue was with prior lovers. While there has been some similarities, there has also been some very distinct differences which may or may not have been partially as a result of your omission to Sue that you wanted to experience being the beta (submissive) within the relationship. Through my own personal experiences; I had been married to a submissive wife in the past and I am currently married to a strong confident woman which is clearly alpha, with that said you can see that I have experienced the lifestyle from various approaches. While many would like to say that they have a relationship of equals, this is typically not the case within most marriages. Even the most dominate/alpha type man can be subtly manipulated by even the most submissive woman as the submissive has much more power than most would ever like to admit to. So as it has been said by Jaxunman, “In most marriages, the wives usually dictate when sex happens and when it does not.” and while he would like to say that there is nothing alpha/beta/FLR about it; this is truly his viewpoint and the viewpoint of the mainstream of sorts. Society as a whole (pre Gen-X/Gen-Y) established the so-called norms of what many of us expect from a married couple and when a couple ventures outside of that so-called norm many are not clear how to respond or act. Within the younger generations beginning with Gen-X, followed up by Gen-Y (Millennials) the socially expected norms are much more open and flexible considering a broader acceptance to what many consider alternative lifestyles. Each of these generations approach the same lifestyle with a much different viewpoint than those of the Baby-Boomer generations. Many couples within your generation are actually going through divorces as their children leave the nest as they find that they have little in common with each other have decades of marriage or the fact that they truly do not have honest open communication. You and Sue have so far beaten the odds and should consider yourselves fortunate that you and Sue have been able to open up (Honest Open Communication) to each other, and have found a way to continue your growth as a couple as you enjoy each other.

In the case of you and Sue; you recently made it clear that you and Sue remain on an ever changing adventure as you are both still learning a lot about what you each want and need. I would agree with you in saying that this is a good understanding to have and it does allow you to a more open minded to what may come in the future. With that said, I had previously conveyed to you that many women are more sexually attracted to alpha men as opposed to beta men; while beta men have a special place sexually with a woman, it is clearly not the same as that of the alpha. You have recently mentioned that the frequency of your intercourse with Sue for 2017 will likely be down to possibly six times and that condom sex has become norm. Looking at this from a purely traditional perspective, many couples have barrier/condom intercourse throughout their sexual life, so your wife’s sisters relationship with her husband is a typical norm for many so I would not consider condom sex as a beta thing. In my viewpoint, what does make condom sex a beta thing is when you as Sue’s husband are the one wearing the condoms while Sue’s lover “Paul” is being allowed by Sue to have bare full access virtually any time they desire to have each other while you are restricted to just a few times a year.

I would agree with Jaxunman assessment in saying that it does appear based on your post that your new norm has a very good chance of becoming permanent as Sue has made clear that Robert had previously given her the best sex of her life and now with Paul becoming her primary sexual partner it is not a far stretch to come to the same conclusion as Jax. While some here would not agree with me on this, I have said this many times before that the relationship that you are headed to what I have called a Poly with a Cuckold twist. My prior assessment was based on the same line of thinking as presented by Jax when he asked you “Is it such a stretch to contemplate for a minute that at some point Sue simply will say she loves you and always will, she wants to spend the rest of her life with you, but she no longer desires to have sex with you, period? Is that so tough to imagine?” Essentially meaning that Sue would continue to have YOU and a LOVER (possible Paul) in her life moving forward.

It is good to see the acknowledgment by you that you and Sue are on an ever changing adventure as you are both still learning a lot about what you each want and need. This has led you and Sue into an area that most may never fully grasp although what it important is that you and Sue are mutually enjoying your shared journey and there will be a point where you both will find what each of you need and want out of the lifestyle. Continue to enjoy your journey….

SS

 

[raksdeer]

Squirm, you make it sound so funny! And it's not a poly with Cuckold twist. It's a cuckold relationship. In poly - all are equal. Here STB is a sub a cuckold and Sue - the dominating partner. In this relationship, only what Sue wants is happening. Not only that Sue is exhibiting traits of a very manipulative cuckoldress. The way she has brainwashed STB is "mind control" demonstrated. In fact she has done a better job than you Squirm!

 

[SquirmingSub]

Squirm, you make it sound so funny! And it's not a poly with Cuckold twist. It's a cuckold relationship. In poly - all are equal. Here STB is a sub a cuckold and Sue - the dominating partner. In this relationship, only what Sue wants is happening. Not only that Sue is exhibiting traits of a very manipulative cuckoldress. The way she has brainwashed STB is "mind control" demonstrated. In fact she has done a better job than you Squirm!

Raksdeer,

While I understand you are simply seeking to find a reason to debate. I am not attempting to be funny although I do make efforts to see most all sides to a situation, lifestyle choice, and more as I engaged in discussions with the thread owner and those that also post on various thread such as this one. While we may not all agree there are times were I actually do agree with Peak, Jaxunman and others; what make your post so different is that you tend to show very little respect to the thread owner (Steve) and what he has chosen to share so openly. I even mind value in what you post although the issue is not what you post it is how you tend to convey it. It is as if you feel if someone does not agree with you that they are absolutely incorrect, abnormal, selfish, etc.

The reality is, we are ALL guilty of placing labels on various relationship models and lifestyle choices. Who is to say whom is correct verse incorrect. While some would call it a hotwife relationship, others would call is a cuckold relationship and due to the direction the relationship has taken even more so recently some would consider if a Friend with Benefits or early onset Poly. Based on the time spent and how Steve at times describes the relationship that Sue has with Paul many on the forum have indicated that there were red-flags in the past. This was at time as result of variations of denial, the perception of deception at times and the belief that there has been a level of emotional development with corresponding connection. Most of you freaked when the description of the relationship between Sue and Paul appeared to have a bit more of an emotional connection to it and now that they number of days have adjusted up/down, with the knowledge that not all the time is purely sexual in nature leading to a greater amount of non-sexual time. Based on recent post by Steve, even Sue has been encouraging a better connection (friendship of sorts) between Paul and Steve.

As to your knock on my Poly with a Cuckold twist remark. I have said this many times in the past, and by the way, even Steve would not call it a Poly although my rational behind this remark is that it would seem that Sue has been developing a emotional connection with Paul while maintaining her emotional connection with Steve. I used the phrase Cuckold twist because that it is simply that, it is clear and there is a cuckold aspect involved although there also appears to be a lingering non-physical connection which many of you have pointed out also. As to your viewpoint on Poly, you say that Poly is all equal; there are so many variations to poly relationships and if you believe that they are all equal you truly have no clue. You are correct in that Sue has taken on a more Alpha role, yet I would not classify her as denominating as you would otherwise Steve would be a lot more restricted than he actually is. You say that in their (Steve and Sue) relationship, only what Sue wants is what happens; I believe that you are truly incorrect as Steve has a LOT of leverage, at many point he himself has requested the beta role, he has re-affirmed his desires to Sue on multiple occasions over the years since he had expressed this desire.

Now to the funny part; you indicated the following (Not only that Sue is exhibiting traits of a very manipulative cuckoldress. The way she has brainwashed STB is "mind control" demonstrated.) Many people (men/women) are manipulative, passive-aggressive, while some are simply open honest and direct about their preferences and desires. You seem to think Steve has been brainwashed using your terms while others would simply believe that just maybe Steve and Sue have a great connection, chemistry, intimacy, love for each other and great honest open judgment free communication were they can openly share their desires, fantasy and preferences with each other without feeling as if the other is being judgmental. So if they are not judging each others desires, why should you be the judge of what works or does not work for them as a couple?

Great (cough-sarcasm) to have heard from you to jump start 2017. Enjoy your day…

 

[peakmb]

Well Steve, you certainly left the door open by putting the question mark after this thread title. It suggests what we all suspect, that you have no idea really what you want for this year, and that in her heart neither does Sue, or if she does she isn’t really sharing it, just asking you. Let’s try and work within what we appear to know.

As has been suggested many times, most recently above by Squirm, Paul is not going to be going any time soon. He gives Sue the sex she needs, he doesn’t currently otherwise impact and he appears to harbor no desires for other women or another type of relationship. Sue is happy with him, on several levels. The only way he is shifting is if you do it yourself by saying he’s not welcome and you think he’s a threat. Which is not going to happen unless a lot else happens first so he’s staying. Maybe for years to come if nothing else changes. Think how that impacts your vision of life in 2018 and beyond. Will your sexual desires with Sue even impact? Will you still have them?

Sue still likes sex best without condoms. Period. No arguments or side issues. Yet you have had this sex with her on so few occasions in the last two years. This is linked to..

Sue seems to prefer her sex with Alpha or equal males, not beta males. All of her partners in the last seven years have been alpha or at least equal males, and while none have openly ridiculed you (Sue would drop them if they did), they have all had the ability to see sex with a married woman as something they could do and enjoy. Sometimes with her husband watching, sometimes just with his knowledge. To them you were / are a cuckold, not a partner of any sort to them.

Sue did not ask you to become a beta. She may have put some of the bricks in place, but you built the house. She has repeatedly asked you whether you wish to stay a beta and every time so far you have said yes, sometimes you have said you wish to go further. Given the two points above it is inescapable that Sue interprets this as you not wanting sex with her on her best terms. These issues are so closely linked in her mind that only at times of extreme stress is Sue likely to grant you a mercy fuck without condoms. The last time was last year after the ski weekend when you switched off your beta desires and insisted on some attention. Sue immediately dropped the condoms and gave you free reign as her alpha/equal. She would do this again if you said the same but as time goes by, the hurdle of convincing her you mean it gets higher. Soon maybe but not yet, you may be unable to get over this hurdle and you will then be in danger of losing Sue. She still believes her husband is in there somewhere, that’s why she still asks, the extra attention you think are getting emotionally could in part be her way of caring for a sick animal. Love and kindness until he recovers. Until she realizes that he won’t recover, that this is the way he really wants it to be. Her current hardening could be the start of this process. Never forget, every time you say you want to stay as the beta, you are telling her you don’t want sex with her ON HER TERMS. Anything else you get is a mercy fuck, a wifely duty, not a meeting of the previous partners in carnal desire.

This ceased to be a game a long time ago, something that you played with. It is having real consequences in your life with Sue. I still believe it has become an addiction rather than a real desire in you, but if I’m wrong and this truly the way you want to go then at least understand that soon it will become permanent. Sue will no longer be able to see you as an equal in sexual terms and that fire will die in her. Again if that is ok with you for now and for the foreseeable future, then fine, I really wouldn’t try to stop you or even persuade you against it. It’s simply that I think your desire is clouded by the addiction and that this is blinding you to the consequences.

What can you do? Well you can’t switch back, you can’t really change quickly at all, but you can decide not to go deeper, or at the least state that this will be only for two months and then it stops. That you need periods of genuine equal intimacy with Sue. Not just one fuck or even one night but a week or two at a time. You may even need counseling to achieve it, but obviously not from any of us. From someone who is qualified and who can get the whole story over time.

Good luck.

 

[SquirmingSub]

@peakmb Well said...

 

[peakmb]

Steve, One last thought on the subject. One way of determining in your mind between addiction and natural preference. Maybe after you have experienced the longer term denial, but soon perhaps starting in March or April. Decide with Sue to stop denial for two months. No teasing, no supervised masturbation, if fact as little masturbation as you can manage, but as much sex as you are capable of and whenever the urge takes you and Sue. Maybe aim for 3+ times a week over 2-3 sessions. I'm sure Sue could cope with it.
If your denial urge is natural, then a break away would not be a problem for you. You'd know it would end shortly if it didn't work for you. It may even give you the peace of mind to continue the denial.

If your denial is an addiction, you will find the sex difficult, particular at first. You may even find the thought of it difficult now. Your urge to 'waste' your sex urge by masturbation and thus destroying some natural sex will also be high.

I think the two states over two months will be easy to tell apart. If Sue is aware of why I'm sure she would go along with it. Paul's view is irrelevant. You could always say you were trialling some new drug. Sue doesn't have to see him less anyway.

If you struggle and thus realise it might be an addiction I really believe you will need help to cure it. It may be like alcohol to you where the only cure is permanently to stay away from it. You might be able to continue in a small way for limited times in controlled environments.

Either way, Sue originally said this hard denial was a two month trial. Hold her to it and propose your own two month trial. When she knows why she will go along with it if she loves you. Which means she will.

Have fun talking..

 

[SoonToBe]

Wow - so much to read and think about but I see several areas where I suppose greater clarity, at least from my perspective is needed to be shared. The one that struck me is the one that I actually totally understand from Sue's perspective - the comments about feeling pressured to have sex with me.

They actually span both before and after our start with being with other guys. While she is, and has always been, very sexual, it's clear to me and expected that once our kids arrived that things would change between us with less time and others to focus on. However, I guess I was insensitive to this in looking back - not in the sense that I ever expected or demanded sex from her - but insensitive to now what I see as her sometimes forcing herself to have sex with me when she knew it had been a while or, as actually was more the case, to her response to seeing me hard and aroused and her thought that she wasn't being a "good wife" if she didn't have sex with me which meant I would be resorting to masturbating more. I admit now that thinking back I probably should have seen that I should have said "you know, if you're too tired or...." but honestly, she never showed those signs of not wanting to - which she admits was her own issues at the time.

I clearly know and understand that once she began seeing other guys - as far back as Brad - that again initially, she felt she had to have sex with me after being with him. I probably was also insensitive and somewhat at fault but at that time, it wasn't something I recognized either - again her attitude somewhat masked it from being something I could even really see unless, of course, I truly was thinking about it from her side and not mine. So I am sure and I clearly accept some responsibility for this because I do believe I expected sex from her when I now know that she likely would have preferred to wait - or later on - as she said - to allow her to enjoy the afterglow or whatever of being with him and not have me take that away.

I admit that this is one of the things I see very clearly and I am 100% sure of how she feels about it too.

I will also share that there are very few other things that I feel as clear about or as sure of right now.

I do know that our sexual relationship and yes, for Raks, our lives, marriages and most other things, have been affected by what we're doing and the direction we're going in. And yes, some things have changed. Sue has said now for many years that she feels that she will always want and have a lover, so whether Paul becomes someone who is truly long-term for the future, or whether he's someone who passes through our lives and may be gone before 2018 arrives, that won't matter. We have even joked that Sue will be the "hottie at the retirement home". I can accept that and I'd even say that in many ways - I want that. Regardless of beta or not - since she started with other guys - I have always enjoyed that she shared herself with others. Could Paul "move in" with us at some point in the future? Perhaps - and yes, I do see the distinction between poly- in this regard. But again here - I'd point out that it's not my feelings that I am not an equal-player should it become a poly-relationship just because he has more sex with her than I do. But to me a poly-relationship is more than just sexual and, at least for now, Sue has kept that line in the sand and for the most part, I do believe her that it is far more physical for her than emotional with regards to Paul. To me a poly-relationship would be difficult to keep discrete - so that part is almost a non-starter for us should it be something of consideration at all. Could I share her with Paul if she truly wanted this - I honestly don't know that I am prepared to share the emotional/family/long-term-committment/life-together side of her with Paul. Granted that may happen over time - but then again, it'll be that much further down the road where I cannot see at all right now. I just don't see things going to that extreme - unless of course, as the gloom-and-doomsayers imply that she will leave me at some point.

I do know that sexually she's changed and so have I. I know that she has learned to appreciate and desire and control sex for herself and her own desires and not always to mine or even Paul's. It is amazing to see how "confident" she is sexually and how in control she is over herself and what Paul or I (or others) will do with and to her. And yes, part of that change is her awareness of truly wanting to be with other men in addition to me - and yes - at times - in preference to me. I am quite sure that if/when I relinquish or move away from my beta-desires, that this may come back and bother me - perhaps a lot - but for now - I am absolutely thrilled by it and feel strangely energized and satisfied for the most part. But that is also something we will just have to deal with when and if it happens, I am sure that if she retains her current desires and I move away from wanting to have the beta role that there are going to be some conflicts.

And yes I am also aware of the potential long-term effects of our condom-usage. I know that because of how she is and how she responds sexually that the longer we go down this road, the more it's affects become more imbedded. Of course it pains me to read it in clear black-and-white that the longer she experiences the extreme pleasure of sex with him and not me, that the less it leads to between us. And yet, it is something that we are both actually quite vocal about continuing to enjoy. Perhaps Peak this is where you see this as a drug-addiction in a way - that despite the likely impact of it, we continue to do it. I do recognize that in many ways that the boat has actually already sailed on this subject in that, unless things drastically change, that I am likely destined to use condoms with her indefinitely. And just as I expressed apprehensions above about her preference for sex with him, at this time, neither of us want to change this. Even last night when I masturbated with her, she continued to tell/tease/taunt me about my cum not being in her - and it continues to bring about an intense response from me. I suppose the real issue isn't that I may use condoms with her - but that whoever her lover is in the future will likely be going bare with her. I know for right now this is a true turn-on for me. Indeed - I absolutely love the way it makes me feel to know how few times I've cum in her and how many times he has - I don't know why but as I said, it has always turned me on that other guys have cum in her. The thing is, she knows it and while we both understand that that act by her lover is usually a part of an explosive orgasm for her, that she also knows it's something that turns me on - so as I said, in a way, despite it all, some desire for my pleasure is still in her thoughts. But I would also be lying if I said that at times even now I find it hard to believe that she will never allow me in her bare again - and yes it pains me to think that way - but at the same time - that same thought also has me incredibly aroused. For me, that arousal is what assures me over and over that I am truly a cuckold.

Was it a mercy-fuck on Sunday? I don't know - as I said - she did cum with me - but at the same time I see what everyone is saying, that she was reluctant and not enthusiastic to let me have her. But is that really unexpected? She has by our agreement and my own admission, been pushing herself to experience and enjoy more with Paul than me? In that way I was actually warmed by her response, that once I confirmed my desire and need, that she acquiesced and eventually enjoyed herself.

More later or whenever.

 

[Knk069]

Steve,
Thanks for the update and the great analysis of your situation in response to the other posters. You are in for an interesting 2017 and I wish you the best. Go with your gut and enjoy the whole experience, pain and pleasure, angst and calm. Your readers learn a lot from your posts.

 

[peakmb]

Steve, you just don't see it.

You both being excited that other men come in her doesn't have to mean that you don't. Either ever or some of the time. The two are simply not connected.

You both seemingly being excited by Sue teasing you is simply her feeding your addiction, either knowingly (and thus as a way of avoiding sex with you) or unknowingly which has the same effect but which is creating long term irreversible change without either of you seemingly being aware.

This issue of Sue feeling 'pressured' before. Understandable that she would wish for some time separation between lovers but it's not an excuse to avoid sex with you at other times. What she wanted was additional sex not replacement sex. At the time you certainly saw it as something that excited you both and thus led to MORE sex between you than otherwise. Sue agreed with that.

The danger in future is not from Paul, not if that relationship continues as is. The danger is from someone after him that wants the emotional relationship too. This is what Sue said she wanted don't forget. It would marginalise your emotional relationship with Sue and confirm again that your sexual relationship is irrelevant to her. What do you have left then?

Your overall response above indicates to me that you don't want to think about the future. It's too big or too worrying or you just don't care or can't see it. I just can't see it's helpful to you ignoring it.

 

[far2easy]

Try out a cage so your can't be tempted to try and mount her until its your turn. You'll both love it!!!

 

[peakmb]

Talks not withstanding. I'm assuming this is the first of your sex free weekends this year. Is Paul with you or is Sue going over to his? How does it feel?

 

[tegelad]

Everyone added such tremendous feedback, the only thing that I feel I can add from a perspective is .... Sue's sexual needs far exceed anything her beta house husband can provide even in his more alpha state. If you step back and think about it, she has the capacity to go 3-6 times a week. I would be interested in knowing how far as an alpha Steve pushed his wife for sex ... and my guess is probably not as much as she over the cuckold trek they have both taken.

She wants and desires sex with a strong man who takes her, and that is her fantasy and need. This goes counter to your fantasy and needs, and I think you two are working it out ok. I wouldn't be too fast to push Paul out as he seems well balanced and just aggressive enough to ensure your relationship stays solid.

Even after this feedback by you and others, I do think you need to step back and think about the quantity of sex you want with her (PIV, Oral, By hand) and how much you fly solo. Like I stated previously, I believe the only orgasms you should have is with your wife present and with PIV being very rare and in between; however, I do believe she should partake in the other aspects with you to keep you connected. If I were the other "unicorn" in the relationship, you would not be masturbating solo and I would make her edge you then make you stop and watch as I took her. The next day when I was gone, then relief could be had.

My point is as was before, sexual intimacy should be had, just not in the traditional vanilla way ... and you should for the next 3-4 months really try to step up the beta and denial with her. I would also set a stop/discussion date sometime in March/April about where you want to go from here reviewing what you guys did and didn't do ....

Anyways ... thanks for the update ... and @peakmb and @SquirmingSub and @raksdeer you guys are just fantastic responders to @SoonToBe you guys are a treasure to this forum!

 

[peakmb]

I'm trying to decide what now constitutes an uneventful weekend...

 

[peakmb]

A week since your last post, the reality of a long denial now starting to bite. At one time we would be lining up wondering what was going on, even going wrong. Yet all is strangely quiet. I assume/hope all is going to plan and I'm just wondering when your first ski weekend is planned?

 

[tinykimbal]

What a beautiful way to start the year.

 

[dutch12]

Oké Steve, now we know how denial feels LOL