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New Direction For 2017?
- Thread starterSoonToBe
- Start date
Steve,
Sue said to you some time ago that if you were wishing to reverse some or all of your beta desires / path, that she would make sure you meant it. That she would test you to make certain you meant it before accommodating any of it. I can't blame her for this, she has gone a long way down this path with both you and Paul. She now has far more invested in him than she ever expected to and her affair with him (for it has become one) has lasted longer than either of you expected and perhaps as a result longer than is healthy for a normal cuckold bonding.
So her conduct over the ski weekend was partly her desire and became partly a test of you. You were never really clear whether you shared your hesitation about even going with Sue beforehand but clearly this step was too much too soon for you. Fair enough. Sue's conduct and her statement presumably after that Paul has become her primary sexual outlet and will stay that way is her opening salvo in the negotiation that you must now have on your future as a less beta lover for her. You need to prove you can walk the talk before she is ever going to really move back down the path she has trod with you and in particular Paul. Whatever he thinks, in her mind she has dedicated her bare pussy to him for some time and breaking that bond is hugely meaningful to her. That you even came close on Valentines is significant. That ultimately is was you that hesitated is also. Had you pushed in at that moment I have no doubt she would have accepted it. She knew before that her conduct over the ski weekend would have pushed you to an edge. She might even have intended or even hoped that it would have done so.
It's been a week since that night though and the conversations with her and her meetings with Paul since then will have meant far more than the extremes of the ski weekend or the actual sex on Valentines. Ultimately, was that just a mercy fuck designed to placate you or was it the start of Sue rebuilding a true sexual bridge back to you. Are you reducing your masturbation sessions to focus yourself back to her or are you allowing her to continue to use her supervised releases to maintain the status quo.
Only you know even part of it. As SS said, I do hope it works out for you, and I do hope you do tell us how it goes.
Sue said to you some time ago that if you were wishing to reverse some or all of your beta desires / path, that she would make sure you meant it. That she would test you to make certain you meant it before accommodating any of it. I can't blame her for this, she has gone a long way down this path with both you and Paul. She now has far more invested in him than she ever expected to and her affair with him (for it has become one) has lasted longer than either of you expected and perhaps as a result longer than is healthy for a normal cuckold bonding.
So her conduct over the ski weekend was partly her desire and became partly a test of you. You were never really clear whether you shared your hesitation about even going with Sue beforehand but clearly this step was too much too soon for you. Fair enough. Sue's conduct and her statement presumably after that Paul has become her primary sexual outlet and will stay that way is her opening salvo in the negotiation that you must now have on your future as a less beta lover for her. You need to prove you can walk the talk before she is ever going to really move back down the path she has trod with you and in particular Paul. Whatever he thinks, in her mind she has dedicated her bare pussy to him for some time and breaking that bond is hugely meaningful to her. That you even came close on Valentines is significant. That ultimately is was you that hesitated is also. Had you pushed in at that moment I have no doubt she would have accepted it. She knew before that her conduct over the ski weekend would have pushed you to an edge. She might even have intended or even hoped that it would have done so.
It's been a week since that night though and the conversations with her and her meetings with Paul since then will have meant far more than the extremes of the ski weekend or the actual sex on Valentines. Ultimately, was that just a mercy fuck designed to placate you or was it the start of Sue rebuilding a true sexual bridge back to you. Are you reducing your masturbation sessions to focus yourself back to her or are you allowing her to continue to use her supervised releases to maintain the status quo.
Only you know even part of it. As SS said, I do hope it works out for you, and I do hope you do tell us how it goes.
Steve,
I'm glad you got together on Valentines-day. I wonder why you hesitated to have bare sex with Sue. Did you fear that Sue would denie you that kind of intimacy or was it your beta-side which still wanted Paul to be the only one filling her with cum? I honest think Sue wanted you to be her husband again. You had the chance to prove you fully want her and you are serious wanting your wife back and be more the old Steve. I'm sure Sue would have stopped you if she didn't want it yet that way. So in my opinion it should have been her choice, not yours. You withheld her the mind-blowing orgasm she only can have when having bare sex. Prove to her that you can be as much a man as Paul is.
I'm glad you got together on Valentines-day. I wonder why you hesitated to have bare sex with Sue. Did you fear that Sue would denie you that kind of intimacy or was it your beta-side which still wanted Paul to be the only one filling her with cum? I honest think Sue wanted you to be her husband again. You had the chance to prove you fully want her and you are serious wanting your wife back and be more the old Steve. I'm sure Sue would have stopped you if she didn't want it yet that way. So in my opinion it should have been her choice, not yours. You withheld her the mind-blowing orgasm she only can have when having bare sex. Prove to her that you can be as much a man as Paul is.
Steve,
I won't repeat what others have said here. The only additional thing I would suggest to you is that you ditch the condom use. I would also suggest if you are interested in keeping some sort of alpha presence, you go and take Sue sexually randomly at least one to two times a month to keep her on her toes.
Lastly, no masturbation. You need to be hard and ready for her when she wants it and when you want to take charge. Use the knowledge and view that she prefers Paul's love making to your sexual activity as a motivating factor. I know it isn't your kink, but if you find that you can't stop yourself from fapping .... then invest in chastity or something to prevent yourself from doing it.
Sue needs to see if she shows herself to you naked or shows interest that you are good game and great for sex.
I won't repeat what others have said here. The only additional thing I would suggest to you is that you ditch the condom use. I would also suggest if you are interested in keeping some sort of alpha presence, you go and take Sue sexually randomly at least one to two times a month to keep her on her toes.
Lastly, no masturbation. You need to be hard and ready for her when she wants it and when you want to take charge. Use the knowledge and view that she prefers Paul's love making to your sexual activity as a motivating factor. I know it isn't your kink, but if you find that you can't stop yourself from fapping .... then invest in chastity or something to prevent yourself from doing it.
Sue needs to see if she shows herself to you naked or shows interest that you are good game and great for sex.
Good update. It seems you and Sue are mutually prefering a 'baby step' approach to you assuming more of an alpha role in your sex life. That makes sense as long as your end game is clear and you keep up the steps in that direction.
I'm amazed Paul has been around for over two years now, would seem safe to bet that can't last.
I'm also amazed your children know or suspect nothing about your covert life....kudos on that and best of luck maintaining that veil of secrecy moving forward.
I'm amazed Paul has been around for over two years now, would seem safe to bet that can't last.
I'm also amazed your children know or suspect nothing about your covert life....kudos on that and best of luck maintaining that veil of secrecy moving forward.
Dear Guhun, did you meant Paul wouldn't last? Because according to Sue's view as presented by STB, he could outlast STB and be the main man in her life in all ways. She enjoys being sexual with him, she enjoys non sexual things with him too. So I guess, nothing left for STB - other than bring the father of her kids.
Now this is a side comment... With consideration to recent post by Steve as it related to remarks made by Sue.
Now some of you guys are starting to see why I previously said that Steve, Sue, and Paul "seemed" to be in more of a "Poly with a Cuckold Twist" than the so called more typical Hotwife/Cuckold arrangements that a lot of people seek out. As many of us are clear on, Steve encouraged Sue to become more with Paul, he may have only expected that it would be purely physical/sexual although after 2 plus years we all know that people eventually do develop an emotional connection as this was not simply an occasional hookup that took place over multiple years, this was a very regular hookup which developed over time into much more than purely a sexual relationship.
It is now more about how Sue seems to view the overall relationship and how Sue has now expressed it per Steve. This is no longer about the so-called beta/alpha aspect, there is now a lot more to this than anyone us would expect to see on a Forum of this type. This is much more common to see on actual Poly Forums were people are having much more open discussion about relationships, about marriage, about the emotional and physical aspects as opposed to simply (only) focusing on the sexual side. It does seem as if Sue has developed strong feels for Paul and she still loves Steve. Does Sue truly need to make a choice, maybe for Sue to be happy at this point, maybe she needs BOTH of her men moving forward.
Steve truly does have a some soul searching, reflection, discussions to have and decisions to make.
Ideally no matter what comes from this chapter in their respective lives, they come to a arrangement/agreement that works for them both as a couple.
Now some of you guys are starting to see why I previously said that Steve, Sue, and Paul "seemed" to be in more of a "Poly with a Cuckold Twist" than the so called more typical Hotwife/Cuckold arrangements that a lot of people seek out. As many of us are clear on, Steve encouraged Sue to become more with Paul, he may have only expected that it would be purely physical/sexual although after 2 plus years we all know that people eventually do develop an emotional connection as this was not simply an occasional hookup that took place over multiple years, this was a very regular hookup which developed over time into much more than purely a sexual relationship.
It is now more about how Sue seems to view the overall relationship and how Sue has now expressed it per Steve. This is no longer about the so-called beta/alpha aspect, there is now a lot more to this than anyone us would expect to see on a Forum of this type. This is much more common to see on actual Poly Forums were people are having much more open discussion about relationships, about marriage, about the emotional and physical aspects as opposed to simply (only) focusing on the sexual side. It does seem as if Sue has developed strong feels for Paul and she still loves Steve. Does Sue truly need to make a choice, maybe for Sue to be happy at this point, maybe she needs BOTH of her men moving forward.
Steve truly does have a some soul searching, reflection, discussions to have and decisions to make.
Ideally no matter what comes from this chapter in their respective lives, they come to a arrangement/agreement that works for them both as a couple.
Raks, yes I did mean that. My completely unprofessional and unexperienced logic is this: as STB moves to become more alpha, Paul will necessairly be relegated to a more beta role. I can visualize him viewing himself as a puppet in this 3-way relationship and walk away altogether but with more confidence in his ability to attract and keep a quality babe in his life in an exclusive relationship. It just seems to me that IF Paul becomes the 'main man' in Sue's life - as has happened sexually all ready and is a real possibilty as being portrayed to us - then all this talk of STB becoming more alpha is mute and the next steps will be occasional/continued condom intercourse, then none, and possible spare bedroom for STB and exposer to family. Those last two steps are major and I don't see STB and Sue letting that happen......thus Paul, realizing he's a second fiddle, will grow tired of the situation and walk away.....thanks for asking Raks.....and YES, I could be wrong.
Yes Raks - Sue enjoys nothing at all with me so why stick around? LOL - sometimes I really just have to call out your gloom-and-doom for what it is. You continue to read your-view into everything I say. I find it funny and I tend to ignore it because it is very far from the reality that is. I just love your last sentence above, I expected nothing less.
So - to start with - I will share that Sue is seeing Paul this evening. She is going there after work and will be home later tonight. As she stated, she intends to keep seeing him and I have told her that I am okay with that. We didn't really talk more until later on Monday after our daughter went back to college - she came home on Saturday. But since, we've been talking quite openly and I think more honestly - admitting to our more truer desires.
I have told her that I love her fucking other guys and that as long as things don't spiral out of control with Paul, that I am still excited, satisfied and happy that she continues to fuck him. We even talked a bit more about why and while I can't explain it, I told her that it's as it's always been, that I love knowing other guys are "in her" and that she wants it with them and I told her that it makes me really horny and that it always has.
She asked me how I felt about "the way" she cums with him and as we talked she again told me that right now, it's better with him and that she wants sex with him more than me. I told her honestly that her orgasms with him are something that I both am very aroused at from my beta perspective and that it does genuinely turn me on that this is how she feels. I told her that she's read the same stuff as I have over the years and that we both knew that this could happen, that sex would be better with another guy and that I rhetorically asked her that "wasn't it better with Robert too" and she reluctantly said yes, but that it was different because it was separate from me. But I told her that for me, knowing she was cumming like she was with Robert and "all that goes with that" - that at the time and even now, it still turns me on. And I told her that I knew that for her to feel or let herself feel that or to even be able to feel that with Robert or Paul, that I knew what she'd meant when she had said it took a lot as a woman to let herself do that and to feel that with another man. And I told her that if it was good, then it wasn't soemthing that I wanted to take away from her, but more something that I now think we need to figure out how to use to make things good and exciting between us.
We talked more last night as I masturbated with her and we talked more about condoms. It was obvious to her that it turned me on and we talked openly about when and whether I should cum in her again. At one point as we were talking more than really getting into getting me horny and I told her that I knew she needed to feel it inside her to let her let go and have that type of deep body wrenching orgasm that she has. She blushed when I said that but I told her that I knew it and that I also knew that if we used condoms together, that she was unlikely to cum like that with me. I can't recall the exact wording we used but I told her that it still turned me on that she would have that with Paul and likley not with me. She asked me if that was okay and I in turn said to her "I think you need to answer that first." and I told her that I needed to know if not feeling that with me was going to be okay for us.
It led to my cock deflating and the both of us talking very intensely. She told me that this is maybe the first time she's feeling like she is since so long ago that she can barely remember (other than when I bring back memories of her fashion-show and lingerie or other things). It stung a little to hear her tell me how she enjoys "feeling Paul" in her and how she enjoys sharing all of herself with him. So I asked again how she thought things would be from her perspective if that still remained something only with him and not me.
It took a lot for her to tell me what she said next, that she loved me very much and that she knew we needed to resume a more physical relationship for it to remain good between us. And she looked at me and said "how important is it to you to make me cum like that?" (as I said, not exact words - I'm paraphrasing). I was honest - and I told her that as I'd said already, that it turned me on that she felt that with Paul and that "the beta side of me says I'm okay" but then I added that "I think we need that together too sometimes". She smiled at me and said we can talk about that more.
I was hard again and as I started to stroke again it was clear we were moving away from more serious talk now that we'd reached a plateau of sorts - as I started stroking again she told me reassuredly that "you'll get to feel me again like that baby...." and then she giggled and said "maybe we can have some fun getting there" and when I turned to look at her questioningly she smiled and said "if you need to be with me baby, then maybe I can make it more fun for you in other ways". I still wasnt' getting it but kept stroking because she was sounding very sexy as she talked. She smiled and leaned over and said "I was thinking....." and she leaned over and kissed me and then kept talking. She asked me how it would be if "our new rule is you can only have me after Paul has left or I've come home, not before....?" I am quite sure my grunt and moan in response gave her a clear answer of yes but I did manage to get out ".... uhhh... that'd.... beee..... hot....". She teased "not every time though baby...." which made me moan even louder. As I stroked my now rock hard cock she giggled and hissed in my ear "....mmmm.... I'll make sure you really want me...." which she knew would get to me and it did. I could feel pre-cum already dribbling out and she saw it too and gave me a soft moan and whispered ".... your cock looks so amazing...". She knew I was close when she started to tell me how wet she'll be when "you have your turn" and when she started to push me about "what you'll be thinking about...." - that was it for me. It felt so good to cum for/with her again last night - I felt my back arch off the bed and my balls tighten up as she moaned in my ear about how she stilll loved to see me cum. The first spurt landed on my neck with the rest on my chest and stomach. She squealed and moaned and told me how "it's been too long since I've watched you" and she was downright giddy as she played with the cum on my stomach and told me "it's so warm and sticky".
As she began to get my cum on her fingers and let me lick it off I told her that it felt like a long time since we'd done this and she agreed and said that we needed to get back to our old rhythm and that was when she asked if she could see him tonight. I hesitated a moment until she said "we can try our new thing when I come home" - which I knew to mean her maybe having sex with me when she got home. I looked at her and asked her "will you want that? in the past you said that was something you didn't always like". She'd brought the last finger-ful of cum to my lips and as I licked it off she smiled and said that she thought it might be fun and that if I wanted to ease the depth of beta-ness (my words - again paraphrasing here) that maybe she could play along sometimes and tease me and she giggled and said "wouldn't it turn you on if I teased you about how wet I am tomorrow night when I'm with you?" (meaning when she's having sex with me). I groaned at what she said and told her "yeah, that would be very hot.... if it's something you're good with" and she smiled and said "we'll see". We kissed and hugged and shared I-love-you's and I thought our sexy talk was done for the night.
But about an hour or so later when we were getting into bed - she got undressed and stood there naked as she pulled on her night-shirt - she knew I was watching her too. It was when we lay in bed and she leaned over and caressed my cock and looked up at me and asked me "is 'he' going to be up for me tomorrow night?" (meaning tonight). I moaned softly from her touch and I told her that I was quite sure he would be 'up'. She kissed me and said "that's good baby..." and when I thought that was it she turned to me and said "not bare though, right?" I turned to look at her and I said what I thought she wanted to hear which was "...uh... no... unless it's what you want, right?" and she smiled and said "that's good - we'll get there honey, lets just go slowly" and she kissed me quickly and then said "we'll talk more".
This morning - as I said, its seemed like a bit of a reboot - this morning she came prancing out of the shower naked - her bald pussy clearly visible and for the first time in a while - she turned to me and held different pairs of panties against her waist and asked me "what color?" - obviously leaving out the next 2 words "for Paul". I told her that it was a warm and supposed to be sunny day - that she should go for the yellow ones with the lacy fringe and the matching bra. She smiled and said "I like it".
So - to start with - I will share that Sue is seeing Paul this evening. She is going there after work and will be home later tonight. As she stated, she intends to keep seeing him and I have told her that I am okay with that. We didn't really talk more until later on Monday after our daughter went back to college - she came home on Saturday. But since, we've been talking quite openly and I think more honestly - admitting to our more truer desires.
I have told her that I love her fucking other guys and that as long as things don't spiral out of control with Paul, that I am still excited, satisfied and happy that she continues to fuck him. We even talked a bit more about why and while I can't explain it, I told her that it's as it's always been, that I love knowing other guys are "in her" and that she wants it with them and I told her that it makes me really horny and that it always has.
She asked me how I felt about "the way" she cums with him and as we talked she again told me that right now, it's better with him and that she wants sex with him more than me. I told her honestly that her orgasms with him are something that I both am very aroused at from my beta perspective and that it does genuinely turn me on that this is how she feels. I told her that she's read the same stuff as I have over the years and that we both knew that this could happen, that sex would be better with another guy and that I rhetorically asked her that "wasn't it better with Robert too" and she reluctantly said yes, but that it was different because it was separate from me. But I told her that for me, knowing she was cumming like she was with Robert and "all that goes with that" - that at the time and even now, it still turns me on. And I told her that I knew that for her to feel or let herself feel that or to even be able to feel that with Robert or Paul, that I knew what she'd meant when she had said it took a lot as a woman to let herself do that and to feel that with another man. And I told her that if it was good, then it wasn't soemthing that I wanted to take away from her, but more something that I now think we need to figure out how to use to make things good and exciting between us.
We talked more last night as I masturbated with her and we talked more about condoms. It was obvious to her that it turned me on and we talked openly about when and whether I should cum in her again. At one point as we were talking more than really getting into getting me horny and I told her that I knew she needed to feel it inside her to let her let go and have that type of deep body wrenching orgasm that she has. She blushed when I said that but I told her that I knew it and that I also knew that if we used condoms together, that she was unlikely to cum like that with me. I can't recall the exact wording we used but I told her that it still turned me on that she would have that with Paul and likley not with me. She asked me if that was okay and I in turn said to her "I think you need to answer that first." and I told her that I needed to know if not feeling that with me was going to be okay for us.
It led to my cock deflating and the both of us talking very intensely. She told me that this is maybe the first time she's feeling like she is since so long ago that she can barely remember (other than when I bring back memories of her fashion-show and lingerie or other things). It stung a little to hear her tell me how she enjoys "feeling Paul" in her and how she enjoys sharing all of herself with him. So I asked again how she thought things would be from her perspective if that still remained something only with him and not me.
It took a lot for her to tell me what she said next, that she loved me very much and that she knew we needed to resume a more physical relationship for it to remain good between us. And she looked at me and said "how important is it to you to make me cum like that?" (as I said, not exact words - I'm paraphrasing). I was honest - and I told her that as I'd said already, that it turned me on that she felt that with Paul and that "the beta side of me says I'm okay" but then I added that "I think we need that together too sometimes". She smiled at me and said we can talk about that more.
I was hard again and as I started to stroke again it was clear we were moving away from more serious talk now that we'd reached a plateau of sorts - as I started stroking again she told me reassuredly that "you'll get to feel me again like that baby...." and then she giggled and said "maybe we can have some fun getting there" and when I turned to look at her questioningly she smiled and said "if you need to be with me baby, then maybe I can make it more fun for you in other ways". I still wasnt' getting it but kept stroking because she was sounding very sexy as she talked. She smiled and leaned over and said "I was thinking....." and she leaned over and kissed me and then kept talking. She asked me how it would be if "our new rule is you can only have me after Paul has left or I've come home, not before....?" I am quite sure my grunt and moan in response gave her a clear answer of yes but I did manage to get out ".... uhhh... that'd.... beee..... hot....". She teased "not every time though baby...." which made me moan even louder. As I stroked my now rock hard cock she giggled and hissed in my ear "....mmmm.... I'll make sure you really want me...." which she knew would get to me and it did. I could feel pre-cum already dribbling out and she saw it too and gave me a soft moan and whispered ".... your cock looks so amazing...". She knew I was close when she started to tell me how wet she'll be when "you have your turn" and when she started to push me about "what you'll be thinking about...." - that was it for me. It felt so good to cum for/with her again last night - I felt my back arch off the bed and my balls tighten up as she moaned in my ear about how she stilll loved to see me cum. The first spurt landed on my neck with the rest on my chest and stomach. She squealed and moaned and told me how "it's been too long since I've watched you" and she was downright giddy as she played with the cum on my stomach and told me "it's so warm and sticky".
As she began to get my cum on her fingers and let me lick it off I told her that it felt like a long time since we'd done this and she agreed and said that we needed to get back to our old rhythm and that was when she asked if she could see him tonight. I hesitated a moment until she said "we can try our new thing when I come home" - which I knew to mean her maybe having sex with me when she got home. I looked at her and asked her "will you want that? in the past you said that was something you didn't always like". She'd brought the last finger-ful of cum to my lips and as I licked it off she smiled and said that she thought it might be fun and that if I wanted to ease the depth of beta-ness (my words - again paraphrasing here) that maybe she could play along sometimes and tease me and she giggled and said "wouldn't it turn you on if I teased you about how wet I am tomorrow night when I'm with you?" (meaning when she's having sex with me). I groaned at what she said and told her "yeah, that would be very hot.... if it's something you're good with" and she smiled and said "we'll see". We kissed and hugged and shared I-love-you's and I thought our sexy talk was done for the night.
But about an hour or so later when we were getting into bed - she got undressed and stood there naked as she pulled on her night-shirt - she knew I was watching her too. It was when we lay in bed and she leaned over and caressed my cock and looked up at me and asked me "is 'he' going to be up for me tomorrow night?" (meaning tonight). I moaned softly from her touch and I told her that I was quite sure he would be 'up'. She kissed me and said "that's good baby..." and when I thought that was it she turned to me and said "not bare though, right?" I turned to look at her and I said what I thought she wanted to hear which was "...uh... no... unless it's what you want, right?" and she smiled and said "that's good - we'll get there honey, lets just go slowly" and she kissed me quickly and then said "we'll talk more".
This morning - as I said, its seemed like a bit of a reboot - this morning she came prancing out of the shower naked - her bald pussy clearly visible and for the first time in a while - she turned to me and held different pairs of panties against her waist and asked me "what color?" - obviously leaving out the next 2 words "for Paul". I told her that it was a warm and supposed to be sunny day - that she should go for the yellow ones with the lacy fringe and the matching bra. She smiled and said "I like it".
Sure I am reading into things STB...you are having a rock solid relationship with Sue. Paul is just a distraction and surely Sue is acting how she had promised. We understand your story through your narrative STB and it was you who was in a bad mood a few days ago. Or do I need to CCP your comments to prove that.
Please think why out of so many comments did you chose to mock mine ? Was it closer to truth ?
Good luck to you STB. And Good bye. I had always wished you well..I wish you well now.
Please think why out of so many comments did you chose to mock mine ? Was it closer to truth ?
Good luck to you STB. And Good bye. I had always wished you well..I wish you well now.
If you replaced Paul with myself as a "master" or boy toy depending on the view ... Steve would have been put in a very uncomfortable position during the holidays. I would be his new best friend that he met while golfing, and I would of course would be having some issues with my house or apartment that would require me crashing at the house from time to time .... while the kids were around ... since they are old enough there is less risk of mental issues with the kids and confusion ....
But I digress ....
But I digress ....
raksdeer said:
Steve,
I can't help thinking that you need to stick your neck out a bit more. Get off the fence and be clear about what you want and when. I've read through both your recent posts twice now and to be honest I haven't a clue. If that truly is a reflection of your conversations with Sue then neither has she.
I still believe that Sue is probing, as she said she would, to determine whether you truly want to return to a more alpha / less beta state. On this evidence it's only if she allows you to or wants you to! She laid it out for you quite plainly. Her best orgasms only occur when no condom is used. How can not have as a goal the need for you both to experience these together? Ok, take some time but be clear with her what your goal is and be equally determined to find out why it is not hers if she prevaricates. I can see no reason why either you or Paul should ever use a condom again. Whatever bullshit reason Sue may give you about enjoying condom play with you, the fact cannot be denied about where her best sex is derived so ask her plainly why she puts this behind her condom play. Personally I would try to ask her when you aren't naked and playing with your dick either.
I can't help thinking that you need to stick your neck out a bit more. Get off the fence and be clear about what you want and when. I've read through both your recent posts twice now and to be honest I haven't a clue. If that truly is a reflection of your conversations with Sue then neither has she.
I still believe that Sue is probing, as she said she would, to determine whether you truly want to return to a more alpha / less beta state. On this evidence it's only if she allows you to or wants you to! She laid it out for you quite plainly. Her best orgasms only occur when no condom is used. How can not have as a goal the need for you both to experience these together? Ok, take some time but be clear with her what your goal is and be equally determined to find out why it is not hers if she prevaricates. I can see no reason why either you or Paul should ever use a condom again. Whatever bullshit reason Sue may give you about enjoying condom play with you, the fact cannot be denied about where her best sex is derived so ask her plainly why she puts this behind her condom play. Personally I would try to ask her when you aren't naked and playing with your dick either.
I have believed for a while that Sue and Steve were re-enforcing roles by what they were saying to each other - "it's what you want isn't it, Babe?" etc. that pushed Steve more deeper as well as Sue's view of him as a beta.
It is good that they are talking like this and that Sue realises that it will take time to re-condition Steve to be less Beta and that she is willing to invest the time to re-train him
It is good that they are talking like this and that Sue realises that it will take time to re-condition Steve to be less Beta and that she is willing to invest the time to re-train him
She's not home yet so I thought I'd answer Peak's question about the continuing condom usage. I don't know how to explain this other than it is something we both enjoy knowing and feeling between us, that this isn't something we will share. I don't know what else to say other than it is something that seems to fulfill me and that she admits, enhances what she feels and experiences with Paul.
For Engima - yes, I recognize that we have been reassuring each other by saying yes to "isn't it what you want" in both directions, her and me. But I do know that she understands that I need penetrative sex with her more frequently than either of us would have thought based on how things were in the past. I have told her that honestly now, that if things will be the way they are with her and Paul, that I am no longer able to be the denied beta with long distances between when we will have sex together. I know it sounds simple and crass in a way, but I need to fuck her and she has admitted that she too knows it's something that we need for us.
So Peak - my hope is that she can aspire to her intentions for tonight where she wants to tease me and hopefully have sex with me. At 7:30pm with another perhaps 2 hours to go before she comes home - my hope is that she'll come home and tease me about where she's been and what she's been doing and then we'll head up to the bedroom where she'll tease me as we have sex together. I've pretty much told her this is what I would like to try out between us - and she's said she would like that too. Sitting here thinking about all of this, I wonder if my continued push for my beta-wishes may have pushed her away from what I think I would very much enjoy. If she won't do it but is receptive to sex, I will tell her that I want her to tease me about it.
I thought about the first paragraph and I feel I need to add to it. I accept that I seem to need to feel her deny me something that she gives to her boyfriend. And I am being honest with her and everyone here when I honestly say that using condoms with her turns me on incredibly. It doesn't mean that I don't want to or won't ever cum in her again, but right now, I have to agree that right now, I don't want to - but at the same time, I can almost let myself start to feel aroused about when I may get the chance to do so. Still, the thought of us even perhaps going away in the spring together and even then - somehow still adhering to condom usage - in my head right now, that thought so arouses me at the thought of her staying "true" to Paul in that way and my going along and even wanting it.
Let me go for now.
For Engima - yes, I recognize that we have been reassuring each other by saying yes to "isn't it what you want" in both directions, her and me. But I do know that she understands that I need penetrative sex with her more frequently than either of us would have thought based on how things were in the past. I have told her that honestly now, that if things will be the way they are with her and Paul, that I am no longer able to be the denied beta with long distances between when we will have sex together. I know it sounds simple and crass in a way, but I need to fuck her and she has admitted that she too knows it's something that we need for us.
So Peak - my hope is that she can aspire to her intentions for tonight where she wants to tease me and hopefully have sex with me. At 7:30pm with another perhaps 2 hours to go before she comes home - my hope is that she'll come home and tease me about where she's been and what she's been doing and then we'll head up to the bedroom where she'll tease me as we have sex together. I've pretty much told her this is what I would like to try out between us - and she's said she would like that too. Sitting here thinking about all of this, I wonder if my continued push for my beta-wishes may have pushed her away from what I think I would very much enjoy. If she won't do it but is receptive to sex, I will tell her that I want her to tease me about it.
I thought about the first paragraph and I feel I need to add to it. I accept that I seem to need to feel her deny me something that she gives to her boyfriend. And I am being honest with her and everyone here when I honestly say that using condoms with her turns me on incredibly. It doesn't mean that I don't want to or won't ever cum in her again, but right now, I have to agree that right now, I don't want to - but at the same time, I can almost let myself start to feel aroused about when I may get the chance to do so. Still, the thought of us even perhaps going away in the spring together and even then - somehow still adhering to condom usage - in my head right now, that thought so arouses me at the thought of her staying "true" to Paul in that way and my going along and even wanting it.
Let me go for now.
Thanks for the explanation on your condom thoughts Steve, it is very much what you have said before, but this was when you were justifying deeper beta thought to yourself and not how you thought two or three years ago. Then you couldn't ever imagine not coming inside her. Again the argument that Sue says it makes sex with Paul more special is part of her beta pattern. I simply cannot believe that in her heights of passion with him she is thinking about you using condoms. It's ridiculous. The connection you ignore, again, in your explanation is what is best to regenerate the sex between you and Sue. Your continued (for the present) desire to cling to the beta angst high with condoms is quite selfish. Your best shot at creating a newly satisfying sex life with Sue is to not use condoms. The bridge between you will not get fully rebuilt without that. It really is that simple. Ask Sue the question, "Would the best sex between us in the future be by not using condoms?", and don't let her turn it round by her asking you to answer it first.
Peak - I readily admit to pushing Sue probably beyond what she was comfortable with when I came to her with my beta-desires and then continued to amp-up the intensity of it. I do know that for a long time this was immensely satisfying for me - yes - even the complete denial at times still somehow seemed to "tweak my beta needs". And I do know that despite the warnings of others here that I did profess to Sue that I wanted her to enforce complete denial for me for period of time.
She's been honest with me and I cannot blame her for the rise in her feelings or more for Paul as a result of it - but she also understands that it truly did turn me on and make me fulfilled (for the most part) for quite a long time now. And equally I expected (shit - I asked and told her to) to enjoy the sex with Paul as much as she could. So her response to me about not wanting change things with Paul doesn't surprise me. I truly didn't know how or when the depth of my beta desires would be reduced. I know that I had felt it changing and shared that here - but the events leading up to the first ski-trip and then this second one have pushed the pendulum back a lot. I know that my telling her that I want to back away from the extreme is a challenge for her and I right now for how to make it work better without bringing back the old feelings she had of feeling obligated to have sex with me at times vs. when she wants it - and for her to "want it" more often with me.
But we will work our way through this if last night was any example. She came home after 9pm and it felt different with her coming in afterwards as she was more forward with me about her having had a "great time with him" and "really felt great with him tonight". We made small talk till she said that we should ".... go upstairs and see what happens..." as we entered the bedroom she told me that Paul had been particularly amorous and I joked with her that denying him over the weekend must have done to him what it does to me. She smiled and said "yes baby, and you'll get to see what he did to me soon". But before she stripped down she told me that she was "tired and a little sore" so that I would have to "take it easy" with her and to be gentle with her. I looked at her and asked her "do you want to do this tonight?" and she smiled and said "I have been thinking about it all day and even though I'm pretty satisfied right now, I think it'll be fun to see what happens". She kissed me and took my hand and slid it down the front of her jeans and below her panties - her fingers guided mine to slip between her slippery lips and she hissed and teased "he left me very wet baby" and then she added "... but you won't.....".
Things are blurry for the specifics after she said that to me as my mind went crazy at feeling my middle finger probing deep in her pussy and feeling how wet and hot she was. She was saying something to me about "....Paul....." and "..... in me....." but I just couldn't focus on her words as long as she held my hand down there - it was only when she slid my hand out that I told her "oh my god..... I'm soooo horny......" and she giggled and smiled and said "that's good"... I was hesitant to take an aggressive stance with her but I was truly hard and horny for her. She slid off her jeans and top and stood there in the same lacy pale yellow panties and bra that I'd seen her put on that morning - but when I looked closer, it was clear her panties were wet and a darker yellow between her legs. She pulled me to her and as we kissed, she slid off her panties and bra and lay back on the bed and she motioned me to get undressed while she spoke to me.
She told me that Paul had fucked her twice and "came inside me both times" and that she wanted me to know that she'd cum several times including deeply both times he filled her. But wasn't just what she said, it was how she said it. Sooooo sexily!!! My cock was hard before I even got my pants off. She raised one leg and caressed it, but careful to now show me too much just yet and she looked at me and smiled when she saw my cock bobbing away as I stood there staring at her. She saw me looking at her breasts and she smiled again and said "oh yes baby, he sucked them too...." and then added "his mouth felt good on them as I came with him". The way she smiled and how she said this stuff, I realized after a moment that she was saying it not just to turn me on but for herself too - the more she talked to me, the more she rubbed her legs together and a few moments later, as she caressed her legs, I noticed she'd begun caressing her pussy too.
I sat on the bed next to her when she patted it and motioned me over closer. She sat up and kissed me and rubbed her breasts on my arm and chest and she moaned in my ear again how ".... he was so big tonight baby....". I honestly wasnt' sure what was going to happen - I would have been happy to jerk myself off all over her by that point but at the same time I was hoping she'd spread her legs and either let me see or maybe let me climb on top of her. We kissed again and she told me that she loved me and that she loved that we could try new things and turn each other on. When our kiss broke she looked in my eyes while we were still in our embrace and she said "I like that you like me fucking him" and I kissed her for a second and I told her "I do baby. It just turns me on." to which she smiled and pulled me close for a bigger hug.
When she let her arms go I wasn't sure what was going to happen until she smiled and turned and reached over her shoulder and picked up a condom that I hadn't noticed sitting there and she turned to me, handed it to me and then said in the most intensely sexy voice, "do you want to fill this up?". Oh god - I think I trembled for a moment. She looked at me and whispered "I think I'm wet enough for you".
Now Peak - I'm not sure you can understand it - but at that moment, I was genuinely eager to pull the condom on and to have sex with her. And I'm going to also say that - while we haven't really talked about it just yet - that from how she smiled and how she responded, that she felt the same way - that for now, this feels right for me and for her. I say that because the teasing and taunting and arousal that followed left no doubt including when she said pointedly "... too bad you can't really feel it..." and "...it's nice that it'll be special for Paul....". She said other stuff but by then I was too far gone into what was in my head and how my cock felt. She felt like soft butter and my cock felt like a hot-knife. As she said stuff about how wet she was - at some points her eyes bulged out and I felt her body tremble as she would orgasm and moan back at me that I "... feel huge in me!!!!..." and at another point she opened her eyes wide and said ".... my god, I can feel you throbbing inside me...". And yes, Peak, she did cum - she came hard and strong and deep while I kept fucking her - and a few moments after she finally subsided, I felt the urge in me and by then, she looked up at me with glazed over eyes and she just encouraged me to "... feel good baby....". And sure enough, a few minutes later I followed her and as I finally came and let out all of my pent-up desires, she moaned to me at how "... I can feel it getting hot in there...". She moaned and said she "came a little" with me as I let go but she smiled and said "I had plenty before that from you". I stayed in her until we both caught our breath and I knew she wanted to be the one to hold the condom on me as I pulled out so when she slid her hand down and encircled my now softening cock, I followed her lead and pulled back out of her.
I have seen that same gleam in her eye for over 2 years now when I pull out of her and she sees my cum in the condom and last night was no different. The tip was filled and as she slid it off me she reached up and gave my cock a tug and she smiled when another thick drop showed up at the tip of my cock. Instead of letting it drip into the condom she scooped it off onto her index finger and daintily offered it up to me. I smiled as I held her and and took her finger into my mouth. She tied the condom in a knot and then surprised me by going down and sucking my cock clean. Of course she kissed me right after that - but it was still a lovely feeling.
As we lay in bed she said "it's not going to be a regular thing baby, you're not having me every time I see Paul" but she turned and looked up at me and said "but I think we can come to something that will work for the both of us". She kissed me and said we can talk over the weekend. I inquired about Paul but apparently with the nice warm weather, he admitted that he wanted to get some golf in as he gave up a good weekend when we were skiing. I told her I was sorry to hear that but she giggled and said "he said I could come by on Sunday if I wanted to".
She's been honest with me and I cannot blame her for the rise in her feelings or more for Paul as a result of it - but she also understands that it truly did turn me on and make me fulfilled (for the most part) for quite a long time now. And equally I expected (shit - I asked and told her to) to enjoy the sex with Paul as much as she could. So her response to me about not wanting change things with Paul doesn't surprise me. I truly didn't know how or when the depth of my beta desires would be reduced. I know that I had felt it changing and shared that here - but the events leading up to the first ski-trip and then this second one have pushed the pendulum back a lot. I know that my telling her that I want to back away from the extreme is a challenge for her and I right now for how to make it work better without bringing back the old feelings she had of feeling obligated to have sex with me at times vs. when she wants it - and for her to "want it" more often with me.
But we will work our way through this if last night was any example. She came home after 9pm and it felt different with her coming in afterwards as she was more forward with me about her having had a "great time with him" and "really felt great with him tonight". We made small talk till she said that we should ".... go upstairs and see what happens..." as we entered the bedroom she told me that Paul had been particularly amorous and I joked with her that denying him over the weekend must have done to him what it does to me. She smiled and said "yes baby, and you'll get to see what he did to me soon". But before she stripped down she told me that she was "tired and a little sore" so that I would have to "take it easy" with her and to be gentle with her. I looked at her and asked her "do you want to do this tonight?" and she smiled and said "I have been thinking about it all day and even though I'm pretty satisfied right now, I think it'll be fun to see what happens". She kissed me and took my hand and slid it down the front of her jeans and below her panties - her fingers guided mine to slip between her slippery lips and she hissed and teased "he left me very wet baby" and then she added "... but you won't.....".
Things are blurry for the specifics after she said that to me as my mind went crazy at feeling my middle finger probing deep in her pussy and feeling how wet and hot she was. She was saying something to me about "....Paul....." and "..... in me....." but I just couldn't focus on her words as long as she held my hand down there - it was only when she slid my hand out that I told her "oh my god..... I'm soooo horny......" and she giggled and smiled and said "that's good"... I was hesitant to take an aggressive stance with her but I was truly hard and horny for her. She slid off her jeans and top and stood there in the same lacy pale yellow panties and bra that I'd seen her put on that morning - but when I looked closer, it was clear her panties were wet and a darker yellow between her legs. She pulled me to her and as we kissed, she slid off her panties and bra and lay back on the bed and she motioned me to get undressed while she spoke to me.
She told me that Paul had fucked her twice and "came inside me both times" and that she wanted me to know that she'd cum several times including deeply both times he filled her. But wasn't just what she said, it was how she said it. Sooooo sexily!!! My cock was hard before I even got my pants off. She raised one leg and caressed it, but careful to now show me too much just yet and she looked at me and smiled when she saw my cock bobbing away as I stood there staring at her. She saw me looking at her breasts and she smiled again and said "oh yes baby, he sucked them too...." and then added "his mouth felt good on them as I came with him". The way she smiled and how she said this stuff, I realized after a moment that she was saying it not just to turn me on but for herself too - the more she talked to me, the more she rubbed her legs together and a few moments later, as she caressed her legs, I noticed she'd begun caressing her pussy too.
I sat on the bed next to her when she patted it and motioned me over closer. She sat up and kissed me and rubbed her breasts on my arm and chest and she moaned in my ear again how ".... he was so big tonight baby....". I honestly wasnt' sure what was going to happen - I would have been happy to jerk myself off all over her by that point but at the same time I was hoping she'd spread her legs and either let me see or maybe let me climb on top of her. We kissed again and she told me that she loved me and that she loved that we could try new things and turn each other on. When our kiss broke she looked in my eyes while we were still in our embrace and she said "I like that you like me fucking him" and I kissed her for a second and I told her "I do baby. It just turns me on." to which she smiled and pulled me close for a bigger hug.
When she let her arms go I wasn't sure what was going to happen until she smiled and turned and reached over her shoulder and picked up a condom that I hadn't noticed sitting there and she turned to me, handed it to me and then said in the most intensely sexy voice, "do you want to fill this up?". Oh god - I think I trembled for a moment. She looked at me and whispered "I think I'm wet enough for you".
Now Peak - I'm not sure you can understand it - but at that moment, I was genuinely eager to pull the condom on and to have sex with her. And I'm going to also say that - while we haven't really talked about it just yet - that from how she smiled and how she responded, that she felt the same way - that for now, this feels right for me and for her. I say that because the teasing and taunting and arousal that followed left no doubt including when she said pointedly "... too bad you can't really feel it..." and "...it's nice that it'll be special for Paul....". She said other stuff but by then I was too far gone into what was in my head and how my cock felt. She felt like soft butter and my cock felt like a hot-knife. As she said stuff about how wet she was - at some points her eyes bulged out and I felt her body tremble as she would orgasm and moan back at me that I "... feel huge in me!!!!..." and at another point she opened her eyes wide and said ".... my god, I can feel you throbbing inside me...". And yes, Peak, she did cum - she came hard and strong and deep while I kept fucking her - and a few moments after she finally subsided, I felt the urge in me and by then, she looked up at me with glazed over eyes and she just encouraged me to "... feel good baby....". And sure enough, a few minutes later I followed her and as I finally came and let out all of my pent-up desires, she moaned to me at how "... I can feel it getting hot in there...". She moaned and said she "came a little" with me as I let go but she smiled and said "I had plenty before that from you". I stayed in her until we both caught our breath and I knew she wanted to be the one to hold the condom on me as I pulled out so when she slid her hand down and encircled my now softening cock, I followed her lead and pulled back out of her.
I have seen that same gleam in her eye for over 2 years now when I pull out of her and she sees my cum in the condom and last night was no different. The tip was filled and as she slid it off me she reached up and gave my cock a tug and she smiled when another thick drop showed up at the tip of my cock. Instead of letting it drip into the condom she scooped it off onto her index finger and daintily offered it up to me. I smiled as I held her and and took her finger into my mouth. She tied the condom in a knot and then surprised me by going down and sucking my cock clean. Of course she kissed me right after that - but it was still a lovely feeling.
As we lay in bed she said "it's not going to be a regular thing baby, you're not having me every time I see Paul" but she turned and looked up at me and said "but I think we can come to something that will work for the both of us". She kissed me and said we can talk over the weekend. I inquired about Paul but apparently with the nice warm weather, he admitted that he wanted to get some golf in as he gave up a good weekend when we were skiing. I told her I was sorry to hear that but she giggled and said "he said I could come by on Sunday if I wanted to".
It's a start Steve. It's better than the place you could have been in. It's not a middle though and it's certainly not the end point you're now aiming for is it?
Only you can decide where that is and what is an acceptable time to get there. Exciting as it was to read and doubtless to experience, it was a mercy fuck. Sue was by her own admission, tired and sore. She had given her best that night to another man. You will be back on target when she gives her best to you some nights. Until then what you have may be satisfying, you may both come and enjoy it even but it's not what it could be nor what you need to reconnect. It doesn't have to be a roaring fire but it does have to sometimes be fueled by just the two of you and the smouldering embers need to be memories of just the two of you.
I remain glad that you both have stepped away from the edge, but you both still next to it. Hold hands and step away further.
Only you can decide where that is and what is an acceptable time to get there. Exciting as it was to read and doubtless to experience, it was a mercy fuck. Sue was by her own admission, tired and sore. She had given her best that night to another man. You will be back on target when she gives her best to you some nights. Until then what you have may be satisfying, you may both come and enjoy it even but it's not what it could be nor what you need to reconnect. It doesn't have to be a roaring fire but it does have to sometimes be fueled by just the two of you and the smouldering embers need to be memories of just the two of you.
I remain glad that you both have stepped away from the edge, but you both still next to it. Hold hands and step away further.
Steve,
In my opinion it is not Sue but YOU denying YOURSELF bare intercourse, because only the taught of not touching her pussy with your cock and not cumming in her vagina does make you as horny as hell. Sue knows that kink and (for now) acts the way you hope she will do.
In 2+ years Paul emptied "a bucket" of sperm in her, you maybe just a few spoons. You will never be able to outdo that amount the rest of your live. You're now back somewhere in early 2016. This is no reconnection but a replay.
Don't or didn't you enjoy sloppy seconds (or even thirds)? Many men do, cucks and men married to a hotwife.
As changeover from "nothing" to internal ejaculation you could pull out and spray on her belly or tits.
Sue will only have that famous mindblowing orgasm when a man ejaculates in her vagina. Don't you want to experience that anymore yourself, caused by YOU and not just watching when Paul does?
Throw away those rubbers asap. You're not maried to Sue's sister!
In my opinion it is not Sue but YOU denying YOURSELF bare intercourse, because only the taught of not touching her pussy with your cock and not cumming in her vagina does make you as horny as hell. Sue knows that kink and (for now) acts the way you hope she will do.
In 2+ years Paul emptied "a bucket" of sperm in her, you maybe just a few spoons. You will never be able to outdo that amount the rest of your live. You're now back somewhere in early 2016. This is no reconnection but a replay.
Don't or didn't you enjoy sloppy seconds (or even thirds)? Many men do, cucks and men married to a hotwife.
As changeover from "nothing" to internal ejaculation you could pull out and spray on her belly or tits.
Sue will only have that famous mindblowing orgasm when a man ejaculates in her vagina. Don't you want to experience that anymore yourself, caused by YOU and not just watching when Paul does?
Throw away those rubbers asap. You're not maried to Sue's sister!
