New Direction For 2017?

[peakmb]

Steve, you seem to have an almost wilful desire to ignore something bearing down on you like an express train. The thing is, it takes a while to stop. If you do nothing it hits you, if you merely dodge it at the last minute it passes you by and you never see it again.

Even you know your decision is clear, even you know you have to give up your pleasure in the angst to get your wife back. One last trip actually does mean you have to recover from a lower point and blurs in Sue's eyes your half stated resolve to end your beta status. For her, it's not the same. This last trip may well be her last big fling in this area and she intends to enjoy it. For all your expected involvement though it truly won't matter to her whether you are there or not. Your choice but I think you already know what I think.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve,

On a positive note, Sue is being expressive about what she is thinking, what she wants to experiences and she has put a few things on the table per say. At this point in time it truly does not make any since for any of us on the forum to attempt to assess your current situation although you are truly at that point where you do need to step back reflect and truly determine what your desire and preferences are and how those actually fit into what Sue is willing or open to doing with you.

The only thing I would recommend at this point is that you have a strong solid positive and be able to convey how you feel want what you desire no matter what you decide to do moving forward.

SS

 

[raksdeer]

I wonder what happened to " we will always talk and I'd never hurt you'. Before starting this phase, she had assured STB that she will step back when needed, but there goes her assurance. There have been far too many instances when she has gone back on her words.

I wonder that what this weekend will achieve other than to leave a scar on their mutual relationship. How can you be doing something willfully which will hurt your spouse. This longing cannot be sex alone. There is love somewhere, no matter how less, but it has to be there.

She asks ' if you will be ok' and STB doesn't uses that question to say that no I will not be OK. So he too, in a sense is making his choices. May be he wants and enjoys pain.

 

[tegelad]

I think Sue is giving Steve exactly what he asked for and she told him she would take it up a level and there would be a stopping point. Steve's conundrum is normal. Him wanting to be "alpha" is the equivalent of a bottom attempting to top from the bottom. Over the past few years she has allowed this to happen; however, in the new year she has take the dominant role as he requested. This situation is exactly fits the statement "Be careful what you wish for" that usually follows guys the beg their girls for chastity ....

I wouldn't say it is all doom and gloom, she is going to give Steve a full dose of being a beta whether he likes it or not. On the flip side ... being wishy washy is really not fair or nice to Paul either. I am sure Sue is fantastic in bed, and to ask to end it at this point wouldn't be fair or right either.

None the less it will be interesting.

 

[raksdeer]

Fair ? Is Paul fair to Sue? Who has invested more in Sue? Paul or STB?

 

[tegelad]

Paul always has the risk that the husband can turn on him physically when he is mosts vulnerable. Plus, being engaged sexually with woman for over two years there are always feeling in play. We are all human beings no matter the kink or the act.

 

[SquirmingSub]

@tegelad those that truly have never fully embraced the lifestyle have no idea what goes through the mind of all parties involved and the associated risk of the lifestyle. Some here seem to get very offended. Your last two post are on point.

 

[peakmb]

Well, we shouldn't let this slide to page 2 and although Steve did visit earlier it seems he's not yet ready to either engage or comment. It becoming pretty pointless for us to do either as he's already said he's not reading it and he seems willing to accept Sue's comment that he can only give her his opinions after the next ski trip. Any position tending towards equality or even mild Alpha thus hardly starts from a position of strength and conviction but there you go.

Squirmy, sometimes you use your supposed experiences in life to deliver posts of huge condescension. As if only you can assess risk! Maybe you didn't mean it, maybe it was an 'alternative fact'. Oh yes, you don't want me to mention Voldemort, he who shall not be named. Or maybe his acolyte Teg who introduces supposed possible threats from Steve against Paul, to justify his opinion, a bit like Voldemort would.

Either way, it's a storm in a teacup without Steve, and he's not playing.

 

[tegelad]

We all know cucks lives matter to you peak ... as to my rebuttal I speak from experience of seeing this happen between guys and girls ... so what may be fantasy fodder or mere speculation to you, others may have seen in real life. I am man enough to not have to use fear to subdue someone (unless that is their personal kink), I say what I mean and mean what I say. I have provided suggestions for his benefit, and possibly others that are "interested" in view/scenes or whatever.

As for Squirmingsub ... I have nothing more then a similar view point ... as I have been a master (something you may have a hard time grasping) over a sub before maybe you should realize there are others out there that may have as much or more experience in some areas then you ... and there is no "superior" view ... just one that has either gotten burned more and survived or was smart enough to side step the upcoming freight train getting ready to hit them.

As I have stated to you ... I respect views like yourself's and raksdeer because the way I view it, you are looking out for his best interest so I let things be ... however ... attack and you will be responded back ...

 

[SquirmingSub]

Peak,

First off, I am a very opened minded person and I am do not get offended easily. With that said, I would expected that anyone that comes this type of forum would be generally open minded also although what I have found over the years is that fact that so many people that post here are VERY judgmental of others that post.

Second, on my last post, #67 on this thread, “@tegelad those that truly have never fully embraced the lifestyle have no idea what goes through the mind of all parties involved and the associated risk of the lifestyle. Some here seem to get very offended. Your last two post are on point.”, it was just that a remark that was a blanket remark in agreement with Tegelad on what was his two more recent post #64 & #66 essentially supporting his remarks.

As to my posting style, you will see that I post in many different way depending on the specific topic and with consideration of the audience. You may feel that I delivery my post with condescension; I will put it out there by saying that it is NOT the intent to be condescending to you or anyone else. With that I said, just as everyone else on this forum thread, I also tend to be very blunt by saying what I mean and meaning what I say. Yes some people may take the direct bluntness as condescending and at times can take offense to what is said if they take it personal as some on this thread have in the past. We have others on this forum which have absolutely no tact in how they present their ideas and suggestions which has had them labeled by Steve. While I find that everyone has very sound ideas to be respected, I find the way that some put those ideas forward as disrespectful in some cases and those that I am speaking of should know whom they are without me having to call them out on this open forum. So with regard to your “Voldemort” remarks, I consider this simply a mockery of my prior remarks.

Yes I have been known to provide suggestions based on my own years of experiences. There are times were we all agree and other times were we do not agree, although we all should respect the fact that we each have out own respective viewpoints which can be colored by our own personal experiences. It would seem that many which have been following Steve’s journey have had a hard time with the fact that Steve and Sue have taken a different direction over the last few years. Some guys have the arrogant alpha mindset, some guys have a more beta mindset, and even fewer have the courage to have or explore both. There is all forms of balance and pseudo equality within the lifestyle. There is no 'alternative fact' here, it is simply a matter of perception from each side within the respective relationship and how we on the outside also see their respective relationships.

Yes I do believe that I have said on multiple occasions that seem to have little or no actual experience in the lifestyle and in turn are a bit judgmental when they post. I am sure that you, Rak and others feel the same way about how I post at times and no I do not take it as personal as some of you have when I post. I honestly do find the various viewpoints enlightening and good for the overall group. We ALL should take time in our own self reflection and we all do need to understand that Steve and Sue have been on a journey that may not be consistent with what we on the outside would prefer. In my case, I simply would like to see Steve and Sue find that in which works best for the BOTH of them as they have had a long relationship and should be happy moving forward.

While you may down play some of Teg’s statements, he did make a good point that everyone within the three way relationship has emotions and time invested within their respective aspects of the relationship and each has something to risk respectively. As with any relationship, more so with the alternative lifestyles, there is always a real threat to each member within the relationship. Relationships of all types have rewards and risks; although in this type arrangement the risk increases and can include emotional, psychological, and physical so you down playing suggestion of the level of risk is a bit naive.

As Teg indicated, “Maybe you should realize there are others out there that may have as much or more experience in some areas then you ... and there is no "superior" view ... just one that has either gotten burned more and survived or was smart enough to side step the upcoming freight train getting ready to hit them.” There are some of us such as Teg and myself which have a vast amount of experience through being part of multiple aspects of the lifestyle. This does not make our views “superior”, it simple means we have navigated these waters before and learned from our experiences.

It has always been my opinion that a person considering entering this lifestyle should always be careful what they ask or wish for, as the reality may not be the same as fantasy!! I have a feeling this has been the case with Steve, his reality may not have been the same as his fantasy.

Steve has made it clear in prior post that he no longer reads all of our posted remarks and that he will not be posting here as often as he has in the past. I did suggest that he transition to a blog style posting on his own space where he can treat is more like an online journal such as others have done.

It is going to take a considerable amount of time for Steve to truly process how he has been feeling based on the experiences he has been having.

SS

 

[peakmb]

Squirmy, the diplomat emerges once more. A few points though.
1. Teg was specific about physical threats. It was not justified by anything Steve has ever talked about.
2. You make the point about emotional investment but Steve seems to have been clear to date (ok via Sue) that Paul has always said he was in it purely for the physical. By now that wears thin with me but Steve has never intimated otherwise so far.
3. My Voldemort was not you. It was the guy you took offence to me mentioning by saying I had made the thread political. The dig of using the phrase 'alternative facts' was a joke from the same area. I think it was Voldemort's press secretary that used it re Inauguration numbers.

I forget how much we over here use humour to illustrate issues and how much you guys do so far less. Sometimes we truly are two nations divided by a common language. Try not to take it personally.

Finally, as to Steve's decision to stay away and determine how to proceed, I have said all along that if he's happy to continue down his 'beta' path, then I'm certainly happy for him to do what he wants. My concern is only if he isn't happy but doesn't quite know the best way to stop or pull back a little on the track. Every event like the ski weekends makes that route more difficult. Eventually he may reach a point with Sue where it becomes impossible. I sure don't know when that might be but I don't think Steve does either. I just hope he stays happy with the direction he chooses or defaults to.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Peak,

Good day, you know how the various approaches comes out. Thank you for your clarification on the few areas in which you highlighted.

I do see your point specifically about the possible physical threat. While Steve has never implied or suggested it, this could’ve be something that Paul might have been concerned with early on and might be concerned about if the dynamic were to change in the future. As we all know when there is an emotional reaction to an activity which is not welcomed it can result in a variety of responses. With that said, it is unclear as to where the whole dynamic will go if Steve does push back and there is a ripple effect between the three of them.

I would agree with you that Steve has continued to state that the relationship between Sue and Paul has always been purely physical although I have a very hard time believing that there is no emotional connection after the number of years that the two of them have been seeing each others. I have a feeling what Steve is saying is either what he would like to believe or what Sue would like him to believe. I am not saying that I believe that the level of emotional connect is the same, just that I believe that there is one.

As to your “Voldemort” remark; now that you clarified, I get it an just had to LOL I have to deal with the crazy political stuff outside of this site and do my best as of late to stay away from it in my free time. Thinking about it now it is truly a bit funny and I truly not to take politics personally, although we have a lot people in this country which are far left, and others are far right with very few of us in the middle of the spectrum.

Those of us that have been following Steve’s post for years all seem to be very concerned over the direction this has taken. I believe you and I both completely agree that we would like to see Steve and Sue find a place of balance were they are both happy no matter the path in which they choose to follow in the future. I do think your right that Steve does need to find what makes him happy and should stay with that direction of choice.

I can only imagine, the first ski weekend of 2017 must have been very difficult for Steve considering that Sue took it to a new level the way she did.

It will be interesting to see what comes from their discussion following the next ski weekend.

I do appreciate you taking the time to provide some clarity on a few items.

SS

 

[Windjammer78]

Fellow readers, I have just gone back and re-read Curt Bruch and wingman’s posts (#53 & 54) and was wondering if there isn’t some way to send a private message to each other. That way you won’t clutter STB’s thread with politics, sarcasms and bickering? In these battles of wit it seems as if some of the participants may be unarmed.

Of course, that’s just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Windjammer78

 

[wingman]

I agree guys. On outhotwives, hijacking a thread to this degree would have been shutdown days ago.

I enjoy and value all of your opinions, but this is getting a bit out of hand.

I second, how about taking it private, or toneing it down. Tks

 

[peakmb]

Subtlety is lost on you isn't it Wingman. You could just as easily read Windjammer's remarks as being you and Brunch should PM each other. And you're wrong about the other site. Abuse gets stamped on quickly, debate and opinion is there in abundance. The xleglover series was probably the closest serial story there to Steve's narrative here and it was sometimes difficult to find the story among the many comments.

Find me a post in the past seven years where Steve says he doesn't want feedback and I and others may listen to you. I can point you to many where he says he likes to see debate and alternative opinions. He has shown time and again how easily he can ignore it all. He's doing so right now and that is not because any of us are posting but because he is trying to think and not get quite so immediately involved. In the meantime, he does appear close to making a major decision about his long term preferences, one which he has shied away from now for over a year or more. Sue is putting far more pressure on him to decide that anyone here is. If he can deal with that, he can laugh at us, and probably does quite often.

 

[wingman]

I have been on x's threads for several years, and see how the admins step in when the non ops hijack the thread. This convo is quickly heading that direction. I will no longer add to the hijack, and will no longer post to anything but directly to Steve with words of encouragement.

 

[Curt Bruch]

I have been on x's threads for several years, and see how the admins step in when the non ops hijack the thread. This convo is quickly heading that direction. I will no longer add to the hijack, and will no longer post to anything but directly to Steve with words of encouragement.

Wingman, I'm with you on this. I likewise have never done anything other than post encouragement to Steve; it's always been his story and not an invitation for apparently inflated egos to grandstand their opinions. Indeed, I dismiss their comments when they can't even get my name right in their quotes.
As for PMs; I already communicate with the most important person in this thread and do not see the need to expand any further on that or anything else.

 

[peakmb]

Q.E.D.

 

[SoonToBe]

Hey everyone. I remain on the sidelines here. I haven't read the last pages of posts very much since my last time here. Yes, I"m a bit somber and borderline annoyed/concerned about everything. She insists that this is just her "getting back at me" and "rubbing my face in it" but at the same time some of what others here had predicted has come to pass in that things are not going to go back to how they were.

I should clarify a few things here though. I do still absolutely believe that if I truly needed to and "had to" have sex with her, that even now, that she would acquiesce and give in - assuredly reluctantly - but I still believe that if I needed her that way, that she would let me. But while I do most assuredly feel the desire for her - it isn't to where I need to say that to her, at least not yet.

She has told me several times now that as many here anticipated, she doesn't feel a desire for me sexually right now and she's comfortable telling me that it is what I told her that I wanted - and she's said it to me many times that I was the one who told her that she should look to Paul to satisfy her desires. She's also told me that my having not cum in her now in over 2 years (she pooh-pooh's the few odd times I did last year) has also had an effect on her where when she thinks about it, that it's Paul she wants and would rather have cum in her than me. And she, perhaps teasing, has said that she thinks that there may be something to the chemical/hormone thing given how she feels about him when they're having sex. I know that he's had her hundreds of times with more to come.

I haven't read anything above and I'm not even replying based on any of that. She saw Paul 2x last week including her going to see him over this past weekend. And she's made a point to tell me how she wants him to "fuck me hard" when she sees him and that I'll see more if I join them next weekend skiing. When I said that I was thinking of not going with them she said she would be going anyway with or without me. That led to a bit of a row between us that culminated with her telling me that she IS going to fulfill her desires and that next weekend away will be the culmination (at least for now) of her wanting to give herself to him - as in her "whole big affair" which she reminded me I had also agreed to and that I should be happy that she's getting what she wanted without having to put me through her giving herself emotionally to him too as she had originally thought she was going to want to feel.

He was going to come here this past Saturday night but I told her that it was enough for me and that I was regretting things already. She took pity on me in her own way and said she'd "fuck him at his place" instead. She did not spend the night and instead came home quite late. It was yesterday morning when she woke up in bed next to me and told me how wonderful she felt that she finally asked me if I was truly going to want to give up being the beta for her. I told her that I was sure I wanted to give up a lot of it and she smiled and said that we can talk about it when the time is ready. I told her that I still like how it felt for her to have sex with Paul and she smiled and said she had no intention on stopping that and that if and when I started to have sex with her again, that it would be me AND Paul fucking her. "And what about condoms?.... what are you thinking about that?". I told her that it still turned me on to think of "only him cumming in you" that I knew that it was something we needed to resume at least some of the time. She smiled and said "okay, we can talk about that some more baby" and she lay back and she started to talk to me without really talking to me - just sharing her thoughts. She told me she was amazed and loving how in touch with her own sexuality she was now and how she could appreciate sex in such new ways now. She turned to me "not just for how it makes me feel, but how it makes you feel too honey" and she said that it's been fun and amazing to see how her fun and enjoyment would make me feel and what it would make me want.

There was no lack in her sharing how she is enjoying the sex with Paul including it being "better than with you honey..... sorry, but that IS what you told me to do and want". I told her that it was and that it did still turn me on to think/know about, but that I was now starting to feel that maybe "sharing with him" instead of "giving to him" is more how I was feeling. She giggled at that and said "well, it's a little late for thinking that" but she said that we will find some middle ground that will make us both happy and she proceeded to tell me how wonderful she feels when she fucks Paul like they did the night before. She giggled and said she "cums so much with him sometimes" and then she said it - she said how wonderful she feels "when he cums in me" and how natural it feels to feel herself cum with him when he does. I was starting to get aroused and she knew it and she teased me that "you can jerk off if you want baby" and then she hissed and said "mmmm - want to see what I look like down there" and she giggled and pushed the covers down and as I leaned up on one elbow she pulled her night shirt up and then slid off her panties. The crotch was damp in them as I saw her kick them off her ankle and as she did so she spread her knees apart and she said "come take a look honey".

I didn't think I'd get hard but I did. She's still totally bare - over 2 1/2 years now for him. But when I did get up onto my knees - and for the first time in I guess weeks and weeks - I was sitting up close to her naked body and looking at her all over. It turned me on and at the same time made me feel very anxious when I looked at her pussy and the first feeling I had was "gee - I haven't seen this in ages" and indeed - it felt weird and crazy to look at her pussy and to almost feel that it isn't mine and that in some ways I barely recognized it! It was so reddened all over - not just between her labia that were swollen, but her whole mound was a darkened pink and almost swollen. I didn't ask as I knew it was from him banging his pubic bone over and over into her. She giggled when she saw me staring and my cock getting hard and she said "you can see inside" and as I looked she reached her hands around the sides of her butt, under her legs and she pulled her vagina open for me. "That's where he fucks me baby....." and then she giggled and said ".... it still feels wet in there..." and she hissed at me again and said "IS IT?!!?". When I said that it looked wet she put her legs back together and said "You have at least another week to wait before you get any of that".

The thing I'll end this with is that while I do feel as though I've lost her sexually and will have to find a way to reclaim her in the future if I want to have a sex life with her - the thing I do feel is that she isn't looking to leave me. What she has said is that unless I put myself back in her life sexually, that at some point she isn't going to want or let me back in. But we aren't there yet and she is talking positively about "after next weekend" so at this point, I'm going to go ahead and endure one more painful weekend with her being his. In some ways, hearing the absence of emotional stuff in everything that she's telling me has me feeling more comfortable for the short term.

I do still love the idea of her being his - so I'm hoping that after next weekend - that we can talk openly about what we both want and need and that she'll be ready to listen.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
Thanks for keeping us all in the loop. It's no joy to know that life has gone for you as some feared. I think you are taking the right steps and I do think you should let Paul and Sue be by themselves on their last ski trip. It sends the right message to both if you stay away.

As to the After, I do think you need to be clearer edged about what you want. Sue has said you need to insert yourself back into her sex life. She isn't going to invite you and it won't just happen. Sharing her with paul needs to be done as equals, particularly at first. It may be that you can both develop some specialisms later but to begin with, inserting yourself quite literally needs to be done without a condom or Sue simply isn't going to take you seriously or treat you as Paul's equal.

Good luck.