New Direction For 2017?

[SquirmingSub]

Gentleman,

If may play the role of devil's advocate for a moment. First off I would agree that it would seem that Sue continues to change the rules to the game based on the narrative that is presented by Steve. Is it really Sue that is changing the rules or is it Sue that is adjusting to the feedback and responses that she is receiving from Steve himself? What has been generally consistent is that she has for the most part always given Steve a way out, a way to change the situation, a way to change the arrangement, a ways to change the active scenario; what we have seen from Steve is that is he is wanting the benefit of being an alpha yet also wanting the effects of being the beta. Steve seems to enjoy aspects of the denial yet as the coin flips does not want to be denied, continues to say that he wants Sue to have something special with Paul that she does not have with himself. With that said, while we may blame Sue for changing the rules, it could be said that Steve is the one that is establishing the basis for the continued scenario and Sue is simply adjusting her responses to Steve's feedback respectively. Steve may need to start acting like an Alpha before Sue will treat him as an alpha.

While I currently agree with many of you; this post is simply a devil's advocate expression.

 

[peakmb]

Squirmy, I agree with your analysis if Steve is capable of exhibiting judgement in a normal way with Sue. The thing is I don't think he is. Nor do I believe he fits the classic stereotype of the submissive cuckold. He went into it quite naive as to Sue's motivation and mindset and very nearly lost her to her first real lover. It was only him moving away that ended that risk. It was her second lover that introduced Steve to him submissive side. One which he fault at the time and ultimately which ended with him winning Sue back. The pattern was set here though. Steve admitted here that he was strangely both attracted and repulsed by his feelings of submission at the time. Feeling which he said he did not share at all fully with Sue.

It is clear though that this set a pattern with Sue also. She liked the idea of losing her will or herself with an Alpha lover and to do that in her head, Steve had to be less alpha. The subtle emasculation began by her at that point. The teasing about what her lovers had enjoyed. This was later ramped up by her adding, What you don't enjoy. Steve faught back over successive lovers but the pattern of one step forward and two back for him was established and remains.

The key question in my head is Why. Why does Sue play it this way and why does Steve accept it, even like it. My worry is that he has become addicted to the emotional state of the beta but not in a positive way. He can't seem to break lose and when he tries Sue finds it easy to slide him right back and further. It's happening again right now. She is playing the role of enabler at this point because it's her best way of keeping a lover she has trained to be an almost perfect fucking machine for her and her circumstance. The submission in Steve appears to be addiction more than preference to me which means he will find it difficult to break free without help. The best help would not be able to go against Sue though. It is clear that if someone made him choose between an addiction controlled life or his wife it would be no contest. It might help if he called her on it but her standard response is, 'I thought that was what you really want,' and we know where that goes.

Perhaps Sue or Paul will finally tire of each other, although there are few signs to date. Sue's repeated assertions in the past that it would burn out in the next few months now seem hollow, yet another ruse to push Steve further down the submissive path. We, in the meantime, can only watch it happen. It is though seeming to me like watching a car crash played out in very slow motion. On this path, if Steve is addicted, it can't end well for them.

 

[far2easy]

I just wonder if the total denial and almost zero sexual contact was the issue. It seems as if Sue allowed Steve to worship her pussy and give her pleasure, redefining their sex, if Steve would really need penetration as often. Then they both get what they want and continue to play their game.

 

[SquirmingSub]

@peakmb I appreciate the feedback in your post #142, when going back to the prior relationship (pre-Paul), you truly can see were the transition may have began. Steve and Sue do need to determine what the root issues are between them so that they may be able to move forward without destroying the marriage.

@far2easy you also made a good point in your post #143

 

[manon]

Classic signs of addiction with Steve. He probably realizes it as this point but is unable or unwilling to find a center of balance. Now is Sue fully realizing and playing that card? To date actions would say yes. Typical emotional troubled waters ahead outlook.

Very sad

 

[SquirmingSub]

It truly might be time for Steve and Sue to see a lifestyle or poly friendly marriage counselor to see if they are able to provide the two of them some help before it blows up.

 

[peakmb]

Perhaps Voldemort could persuade his friends not to dump on a national treasure like that!

 

[SquirmingSub]

Seems this forum was hit with a spammer across multiple threads.

 

[SoonToBe]

Peak, you're replacing Raks with talk about destroying our marriage. Quite the oppposite right now as there is a definite emergence of a bit of a redefinition of things that are working for us. Or put another way, we are coming to our new equilibrium. Her challenge that she's now been very clear about is that she needs to figure out how to put things together in terms of both keeping things things hot and fulfilling sexually between us and yet return to more sexual interaction between us. That is a result of my admission that the extreme beta direction we were going in wasn't working - but that's where I read with question that some must have thought I was abandoning all my beta desires.

Quite the opposite. I still have some definite desires and I have actually told her they are needs at this point as I truly feel that I need some level of beta-ness to feel the type of satisfaction I feel now with her sexually. What I pulled back from, in terms of physical aspects, is that we are not continuing down the ever-expanding denial direction that we were going in. Not that it wasn't pleasurable - it was for a period of time - yes, it was for me very pleasurable to agree and be somewhat ****** into being fully denied. The feeling of letting go of her sexually was amazingly intense and strangely fulfilling - but as I know now, that isn't feasible as an ongoing state. And that is where I said I wanted to pull back from the beta-ness I'd pushed for. I need to fuck her - maybe not as often as others here might think - but once every 2 weeks seems to be what I need.

She has admitted that she enjoys this frequency too for now and as we've talked, she now admits that she too would like to enjoy sex with me more often. Whether it's what she truly feels deep inside as I do, perhaps not fully, but there is no doubt to her eagerness and response with me when we are now having sex again. And yes, we are having sex again, perhaps not as frequenlty as some here would say we should, but enough that as I said, it seems to have restored a bit of equilibrium.

What has changed is the acceptance and understanding of what we both want. She makes no secret that she wants to have and enjoy sex with Paul. We have however, agreed that overnight stays will be less frequent. What has also changed and is still evolving is her understanding of how to incorporate what she is doing with Paul with our newly emerging routine. I have admitted to her that I love knowing and hearing/seeing of her fun with Paul and that if we are going to look to every 2 weeks for us to have sex, then I told her it makes me feel wonderful and far more at ease to enjoy masturbating in the in-between weeks. She told me it was almost exactly what she hoped I would tell her as she wanted to also understand more of what would work best for us. She has also told me that she has shared a bit more of this with Paul and she teased that "maybe he'll cum more those times" - which as I said, is part of the change that she is working out - how to tease me and bring more arousal to me with the goal of us having more intense sex when we do have it together.

She has also clearly stated that we are in absolute agreement about condoms. She was surprised when I told her that I wanted and perhaps even needed to use them with her - but it also let her admit to me that she feels incredibly sexy with the knowledge that only her boyfriend is cumming in her. But before we jump to conclusions, we both have been clear that "a few times" of me cumming in her is also something we both want - and we agreed that perhaps those should be on special-times or vacations or other events. She says she truly feels so in touch with me and able to talk with me - I told her again that I need to feel her deny me something and that for now, using condoms gives me that. We talked very clearly about what this means and I admitted to her that I wanted this. Whether it's what she wanted all along or that her own desires have changed over time to work with mine, she says she also felt relief that I wanted this because she too feels it from her side of the coin - she says that she has never felt this type of continual ongoing sexual awareness and arousal ever (something she feels even more remarkable to have happened at 55 years old).

Before I go - I'll just share the plans for the weekend are for her to see him on Saturday evening (after his golf game) and then to have sex with me on Sunday, or perhaps Saturday night if she's in the mood. But if not, then Sunday for sure - and this is the bigger change between us, that she is wanting this. So as I said, perhaps our new equilibrium with her being far more open with me along the way and on Sunday too.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve, Good to read that you and Sue have found that balance that bring you both mutual happiness. The journey moving forward should be much better for all involved now that you have found that place that works for you both.

 

[tegelad]

Great news Steve .... if twice a month does it for you ... rock on. Just make sure you are getting the quantity and quality you desire. If denial to you is no cum in her ... that is great ....

I strongly suggest, that you should talk to Paul, and one of the nights plan something where you both have her "at the same time" ... Yes that means dual penetration and making her feel the burn. Let me tell you I don't care how alpha she is .... when a woman loses 100% control like that it is good for the dynamics.

In life .... people are either the follower or leader .. but everyone switches roles ... I strongly recommend you take that path at least once ....

 

[peakmb]

Steve, maybe I'm just getting too cynical but your new balance is going to have survive a while before I believe it. Time and again recently Sue has made this sort of 'new deal' with you only to amend / withdraw / cancel it a few weeks later. I still see her actions currently as enabling your denial addiction in order to continue at her current level of intensity with her trained lover, Paul.
In 'discussion' you have backed away considerably from what seemed to be a very clear intention / desire to have less beta in your life. Not zero but quite a bit less. Now maybe that was you not being clear or me misinterpreting what you said but where you are already now redrawing the line is not where you appeared to want to be. Time and that alone will tell. Sue's actions and your responses will tell over the coming months how stable this new equilibrium will be. Not words.

Please don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I really hope you are not addicted, that Sue does have only your interests in her heart and that the coming months are filled with sunshine and bunnies in green fields for you both. I just want to wait now to see it happen.

 

[dutch12]

I need to fuck her - maybe not as often as others here might think - but once every 2 weeks seems to be what I need.

And Sue agrees, thats great. Hope that Steve can tell us in a few months all worked out as planned and agreed.
I'm a believer when I see it. No pun intended.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, we are snowed in today here and both of us are working from home. But to keep everyone in sync here, things seem to be going well - she did see Paul on Saturday and we've reached a bit of an agreement regarding that, but more on this in a moment.

But back to Sunday. We woke up a bit later than usual and she knew I was still quite horny and even before we got out of bed, she was in quite the teasing mode including at one point reaching into my boxers and holding my balls and asking me "are these full and in need of emptying baby..." and she teased me about whether I was horny from her "being with my lover" and "having him take me". Obviously she had my morning hardon at full mast in no time.

We had talked before she went to see Paul on Saturday that I wanted her to feel more comfortable teasing me more openly - as long as we were going to be having sex together - and she understood it, as we talked more she, I think, is starting to really get into making this good for both of us even with the change/reversal I asked for. I was able to convey to her that her amping up the teasing almost as part of foreplay or even the day or so before that - that it was something I wanted - and at the same time I made sure to be certain she isn't feeling pressured to automatically have sex with me every other week. She smiled and agreed that as long as she can understand how/when to tweak me - that she thinks she can have fun with it too. And this past Sunday seemed to hopefully go in that direction as she surely enjoyed herself.

She teased me about whether I wanted to go "down there" as she was after sleeping all night and "you know, baby, his stuff is probably all over me" or whether she should go off to the bathroom and "clean up a bit" first. Before I could answer she took my hand and put it under her night shirt and she let me feel her pussy and she whispered "I think I"m still wet inside" as I pushed my middle finger into her. She giggled at first as my eyes opened wide and then laughed out loud when I darted under the covers right then and there.

I hadn't even started licking her yet when she pulled the covers down and said "I want to watch you" and she slid down in the bed and arched her back a bit more for me. As I started to lick her she asked as if it were nothing "can you still taste him in me?" to which I groaned back a loud "yes". She pulled her knees back a bit for me and said "just a little bit now baby" and she let me lick her for a few more minutes until I swore I felt her pussy start to respond and spasm a bit. I was ready to really dig in but she put her hand on my head and pushed me back and said "that's all for now......." and then added ".... we have all day....." and she giggled more and said "he's going to be hard all day" as she caressed the now large lump in my boxers and she got up and pulled her night-shirt down and went off into the bathroom.

I was still in bed when she came out and said "Your turn" and then she went off to the kitchen leaving me there with my hardon.

She continued to tease me until just after lunch when she poured us a glass of wine each and it was clear she was finally ready. She teased me when she kissed me and said "soooo baby.... think you're ready for some fun...." and when I eagerly nodded yes she smiled and said we should go up to the bedroom. She had pulled off her pants leaving her in just a t-shirt (she almost never wears a bra) and her panties on the bed when I walked into our room. I pulled off my clothes down to my boxers and she giggled and said "show me yours and I'll show you mine". I slid off my boxers and she smiled and continued to giggle and said "oooh, someone is glad to see me" (referring to my cock) at which point she pulled off her t-shirt and then she lay back and lifted her butt and slid off her panties.

More in a bit.

 

[SoonToBe]

I don't think I will ever tire of seeing her lying naked before me - her bare pussy a reminder as well as the darkened reddened interior of her pussy where her lips separated that Paul used her the night before. She patted the bed next to her and I lay down while she still teased me as I lay down when she said that she was "... still a little sore..." and she giggled. We kissed, quite passionately and for a good amount of the time it was truly almost "normal" as our hands and fingers roamed over and into each other. She let me finger her quite deeply and took the opportunity to tease me and ask me "is it still wet inside?" and when I groaned back that "it's wet and very warm" she cooed in my ear that "you should enjoy it then....".

Now we'd talked about the next part a lot actually. I told her at one point that I wanted to be sure that we were okay if we continued to use condoms together and she was very supportive and very emotionally in touch with me when she held me and asked me if it mattered to me. I told her no, that it was as it has been, that it makes me feel somehow satisfied and even "complete" now when I use them with her. She told me that even though it prevents us from "sharing some things" she made it clear that it is also something she knows means a lot to me and as she said "it's not what we don't have together, it's what we do share together". We talked about lots of stuff and one thing I shared with her was something she said made her realize how this feels to me - I told her that I was still particularly aroused and turned on and all that when I think about Paul ejaculating in her - and she knew from me saying it like that and not about him "cumming" in her - and that I felt so aroused and amazed in some ways at thinking about knowing he is in her when he does orgasm and that he shares that intimacy with her and not me. She seemed particularly interested in how deep seated that arousal is - and I felt she really understood it when she said "it's always turned you on that I was with other guys like that... you know... bare all the time" and I told her that I didn't fully understand it all just that knowing he's in her when he cums is something that just does it for me.

She repeated a lot of that back to me when we were in bed. As I touched and felt her and put my fingers in her again she teased and turned me on like crazy asking me things like "do you like knowing Pauls cock was where your fingers are now baby?" and as I went down to lick her she teased me even more and told me again how ".... thick his cum is sometimes baby...." so there might be some left in her. Needless to say - it was intense and I felt like a teenager again with my cock bobbing away as we touched and felt each other. She asked me at one point "... so baby? do you want to put it in me bare?...." and then added ".... just a little though..." and I looked down at her and saw that she had spread her pussy wide open for me - I could see into her wet vaginal interior and I so wanted to just push into her at that moment - but at the same time - and as I said, knowing I felt this merely just reminded/convinced me that I do truly want what we're doing - I actually looked at her and said "maybe next time" and she watched with her eyes open wide as I opened the foil pouch and - with my cock not fading at all, if anything, even harder and throbbing even more - I pulled the condom on and I must have let out a moan or a smile because when I looked up at her she had a huge smile herself and as I leaned downward she raised her legs around behind me and said "...come and get it....".

Of course she teased me the entire time I was fucking her - but she came and wow did she cum at a few points - her own teasing as well as my thrusting brought her to several orgasms where she thrashed her head back and forth and I could totally feel her pussy get slick and open inside. She looked up at me and said several times that "....oh god.... you feel HUGE in me!!!". Including one last time when she couldn't get the words out as she slipped into one more orgasm. Seeing her eyes close and feeling her cum one last time was all I needed and a moment later I came with an intensity such that I could barely hold myself up above her. She wrapped her legs around behind me and held me deep for a few more moments before I felt her relax her hold on me. I was still breathing deep when she whispered "let me get my hand in between us" and as she slid it towards my cock and she held it she added "I don't want to make a mess" and a moment later I raised up and I slid off of her. Her hand guided my now softened cock out of her and I lay back on the bed. She was moaning softly as she fiddled with my cock but it was a second later when she said out loud "holy.... wow...." and when I raised my head up off the pillow she was holding the condom and she just looked at me and said "wow - you must have needed that..... there's SOOOO much cum...." and she played with it between her fingers squeezing it.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve - it does seem as if you and Sue have found a balance of sorts which works for you both.

 

[peakmb]

Working out so far then. Glad to see it Steve. It's clear that you're keeping a mental record of days since bareback though. Let it go. Take up Sue's suggestion of just dipping it in before you start. The pressure it creates for both of you will go with it. It will leave you free to make the choice each time without history tapping you on the shoulder. Might leave you free to leave that choice solely up to the Alpha too. Still, this progress away from the cliff edge of January and February. Well done.

 

[SoonToBe]

Peak - we'll work our way up to that, but for now, this new routine seems to be working.

I should add some other things that we have talked about which may help others come to understand what I now do about Sue. It wasn't that she was offended or hurt by my pushing to be more and more beta/denied, but the way she's explained it is that she hadn't wanted to go further for herself, but agreed to do so because she knew/felt it was what I wanted. As I've shared, I have told her that I feel bad that she did things that she may not have wanted and I know that by doing so, she opened herself up to Paul perhaps more than she would have wanted to - but we both accept that this is water-under-the-bridge and that we are dealing with where we are now.

She's said that she had wanted to come to more of this type of agreement/schedule/equilibrium with me but also knew that I wanted more and that rather than pushing back, she decided to go the opposite route and ****** me to the extreme of what I was asking for. She said she expected me to pull back as I did, but also said that it happened sooner than she had thought. And so what she's explained to me is that it's what I also tried to share here - that she says she is almost re-learning what turns me on and how to use it to our advantage.

Not sure if that was clear before but I feel better trying to explain it one more time.

 

[peakmb]

It helps, and thanks STB.

 

[Knk069]

Thanks for the updates, Steve. I had a thought earlier, before I read your posts, that Sue might head to Paul's ahead of the storm so she could be snowed in with him for a day of sex. I'm glad that it didn't happen that way.