Denial 2015

[raksdeer]

I told her that I wish she'd have said something all this time but she genuinely doesn't blame me and says that "it's not you, it's me" and that not having any contact with me is helping her. The thing is, she sounds so open and honest, there's even almost a tear in her eye at times, it's hard to not believe that this is how she's feeling.

But she' also said "I have every intention of seeing him somehow twice a week even when the kids are home" and she looked at me and said that "You'll know when I'm past my issues when that changes" and before she would let me say a thing she added "I am so lucky, I love you" .

So in essence, the denial you are experiencing is because of issues she is facing....? And not because both of you are enjoying it? Or issues are being used to justify the denial...(I wonder how else once can justify denial?). She says "it's not you it's me...and still while she is enjoying the companionship of Paul, you are being denied (it's not that you are not enjoying it...but still I hope you get my point). Or She is just saying that to ease your guilt and in her mind you are guilty and that's why you are getting denied. The game you two started playing sounded like a game and now it has started to sound like a "issue resolution journey" rather than a mutually arousing game. It's no more a game, but a power play wherein she wants to assert that "it is helping her to really feel that I can see her, be horny for her and for her to know that unless she wants it with me, that she doesn't have to do it." and "she wants to be the one to want to have sex and to not feel like she "has to" do it".

Please be assured that I am not picking holes in your argument or your way of thinking. I am just trying to understand from where I stand.

 

[golfman2315]

" I wasn't sure how you were asking your last question - whether you were suggesting that she is adopting this full-denial because she thinks I want it."
I was not really asking a question but suggesting that I think she thinks this is what you wanted.

I mean did y'all discuss what this phase would look like or has she just kind of set the rules. I can understand you wanting her to get great pleasure out of this but, it just seems a little over the top. It is almost starting to read like one of those stories where the husband is an inadequate lover so she replaces him for her sexual needs. I have never thought throughout all your post that that was the case or is the case. That is why I think she might think this is what you want. You have mentioned several times that she emails with a pen pal and you thought they might be helping to guide her. If so maybe they misread y'all's relationship. I mean damn throw a guy a bone or some used panties or something. On numerous occasions she has mentioned reminding her and she will do something special I guess either those never happened or you did not report them.

There also seems to be a lot of guilt trip being laid on.

Based on how your relationship has been conveyed over the last 7 or 8 years and the strength of your love I don't see the harm in being honest about the fact that this is may not be exactly the way you thought it would go and that you expected more involvement.

If this deal was food you would have starved to death by now.

 

[raksdeer]

But that's exactly the point golfman...! STB is enjoying it and Sue is using the "Guilt Trip" so that she doesn't feels guilty when it's all over (if it gets over at all). For all we know STB might be inadequate lover because what we read here is STB's account. So STB might be adequate according to his opinion whereas he actually might be not. Didn't we hear Sue saying that "She will always have a lover". Why?

 

[dana007]

STB
Would you thimk about tellimg Sue that if she wanted, to you would talk about her stayimg over there with Paul. for three nights and not two.
now that it is almost time for the kid's to come home. for the summer, what would she say and think about that . and could you stand it for that long.
keep us posted.
ps we know you have gone that long when she went away with frank, but you got to have her when she got back. now you won't will that make a big deal out of it.

 

[SoonToBe]

Raks - I think you are continuing to underplay the other changes that have been going on between us. Yes it is becoming more anxious for me the longer we don't have sex together - but at the same time, sharing moments like we have when she is next to me and shares her excitement with me while I masturbate - Far2 and others have said it - and they're correct, it's not like actually having sex with that deep connecting release together, but it is exhilirating and quite satisfying in many other ways including feeling her against me. It felt amazing to feel her bare breasts against me and to feel her hard nipples - and she knew it too. It's the first I've truly felt her sexually now in over a month and I have told her several times since that it was really a moment that really resonated with me.

She's said the same thing. She admits that she feels horny around me but at the same time that she really wants to feel that she can control herself around me and I've done nothing but support her and even encourage her. I may have also underplayed that she does want this to be good for me. That comes through loud and clear as she talks to me and adjusts what she says and does in accordance with my response, so there's no way to hide that all of this still turns me on so. And I will definitely say that I know that if I had pushed her back against the bed and told her that I needed her, that she would have had no qualms about letting me have sex with her. Despite all the bravado and showmanship, under it all, there is still a palpable sense that she wants this to be good for me and us.

We talked a bit more last night in bed and she even asked me if it wasn't better and easier to lie together in bed now that it's more clear that we aren't going to have sex together. She teased that she can see my cock was hard beneath my boxers and she pulled up her night-shirt and "showed me" (in a teasing way) that she was wet too but she pulled it back down and pulled me to her and hugged me and said that it's good for both of us to put sex back as something that we both want instead of something that we both feel we need to. And I admitted to her that I often did feel as if I needed to have her right when she got home long ago and she looked at me and said that she felt that start to change a bit over time and she said that she felt that I was ready to let go of that feeling and need when I came out with my beta desire. She said something that, if anything, my ability to open up and say that I wanted that was something that she felt almost made her take a look at herself and come to the realizations she has.

Will we go back to normal vanilla sex, I don't know. I don't know that either of us could go back to just that, she admits she wants to have other men at least some of the time and for now, I don't mind that at all. With us not having sex, I've become incredibly aware of what I am missing and have given up that she is still sharing with Paul, and for right now, that still turns me on incredibly.

Not sure if this addresses Raks or Golf's concerns but I don't feel like she's leaving me out, if anything, these past few weeks have made it easier to deal with because of how open she is being with me. It's a journey we are both on for right now. I will say that sitting out back last night with a bottle of wine on the deck enjoying a warm spring evening was quite relaxing whereas in the past I admit I'd have spent the evening anticipating taking her to bed and somehow knowing to not even think about it now has made things quite different in how we relate to each other and how happy I am spending time with her, yes, not trying to think about how to get in her panties.

 

[raksdeer]

Forgive me if I seem to dissect your arguments. But I am just trying to understand what you are saying. if at any point of time, you feel that I am stepping on something, please warn me and I will stay clear.

Raks - I think you are continuing to underplay the other changes that have been going on between us. I will say that sitting out back last night with a bottle of wine on the deck enjoying a warm spring evening was quite relaxing whereas in the past I admit I'd have spent the evening anticipating taking her to bed and somehow knowing to not even think about it now has made things quite different in how we relate to each other and how happy I am spending time with her, yes, not trying to think about how to get in her panties.

Was it such a bad thing? Feeling horny for each other? Wanting to have sex with each other? May be it was....and that's why you've turned to others

She admits that she feels horny around me but at the same time that she really wants to feel that she can control herself around me and I've done nothing but support her and even encourage her.

Why does she wants to control herself around you? And not say for example around Paul? What will this control achieve? Does she wants to have a non-sexual relationship with you because you have become too familiar and sex with you lost its novelty and you have forgotten how to seduce her? Make her feel good, worthy and happy?

She teased that she can see my cock was hard beneath my boxers and she pulled up her night-shirt and "showed me" (in a teasing way) that she was wet too but she pulled it back down and pulled me to her and hugged me and said that it's good for both of us to put sex back as something that we both want instead of something that we both feel we need to.

Sure needing her isn't as good as wanting her ??? SO I need to have food is actually worse than wanting the food ? Sorry difficult for me to digest. And I am sure if you think you will find that too.

she said that she felt that I was ready to let go of that feeling and need when I came out with my beta desire. She said something that, if anything, my ability to open up and say that I wanted that was something that she felt almost made her take a look at herself and come to the realizations she has.

If you have come to realization as described above, what you two are waiting for? Or is these all realization just an excuse for her denial / you wanting to feel denied / humiliated ?

With us not having sex, I've become incredibly aware of what I am missing and have given up that she is still sharing with Paul, and for right now, that still turns me on incredibly.

Here in lies the real reason. She is getting turned on by denying you and you are getting turned on by getting denied.

Not sure if this addresses Raks or Golf's concerns but I don't feel like she's leaving me out, if anything, these past few weeks have made it easier to deal with because of how open she is being with me. It's a journey we are both on for right now.

No it doesn't addresses the questions that I have raised. But they are my questions. You are not obligated to answer. But that being said -I would say that you two are not totally truthful about what you want from this journey.

 

[raksdeer]

And I will definitely say that I know that if I had pushed her back against the bed and told her that I needed her, that she would have had no qualms about letting me have sex with her. Despite all the bravado and showmanship, under it all, there is still a palpable sense that she wants this to be good for me and us.

How do you know STB? How do you know? You can never be sure of this answer as you are not going to try it and even if you try, I doubt she will take it lying down. After all what will happen to your training - I mean your training in becoming more and more beta....!!!

Remember, She already told you in beginning that this time, she won't be relenting as earlier. So you above assertion is not an assertion at all...just your wishful thinking. And that's what I think. I am not there so I see your world through my eyes. May be I am wrong (I so wish that I am wrong and you two stay tight together...)

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve - Sounds great, it has been good to read your continued experiences and evolution as a couple. It was also good to see your clarification to others in an effort to help everyone better understand how your relationship is going. You and Sue have shared an amazing journey which will only get better as time goes on.

 

[Knk069]

Hang in there Steve. I must be very difficult for someone with beta desires but very rewarding.

 

[cleaner]

Steve,
Of course I have been following you for years nearly everyday and rarely make a comment. But in between sessions I thought I would ask a question about Sues lovers over the years. My question is for Sue, If she could pick just one of the many lovers she has had (including Brad and Robert and Paul), which lover does she have the best sex with and whose penis fits her the best (That would of course include yours). Also, who does she think ejaculates the most in her pussy? Thanks for you time. Your life is unbelievable with a fantastic partner.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, I just walked through the door - begged to leave work to come home and pick back up with a problem so I have limited time right now.
She is at Pauls tonight and yes, again tomorrow night. I hope to have more time later to post some of our discussion from last night, but the short of it is that we have these last 3 weeks where she has the freedom to do this - to spend Tuesday and Wednesday night with him. I asked her openly and to the point if she had developed feelings for him or if things had progressed beyond it being just sex. She was honest and said that she does not love him and has no long-term desire for him, but at the same time, she said that she is really into the sex with him. It was how she said it though that made me understand that she's telling me the truth and she added that it is what she wanted to happen with him. She set no end-point but again, the conversation convinced me that even if it's not yet in sight, that she understands that there is one - at least to the current state. My thought after talking to her at more length is that she may want to have him as a lover for a longer period of time than I'd originally thought, from her way of expressing things, this is maybe the first where I think she is indicating he may be a long-term person in our lives.

She asked me in return if I was enjoying my beta-status - and that is when I expressed my desires to have her/them at our place and also when I told her that I had thought things would be different, that it wouldn't be exclusive but that I would still have some sexual contact. She giggled and said to me that she felt she was going to "figure myself out" soon (harking back to the kids coming home) which again leads me back to my thoughts of her accelerating things these next few weeks. When I asked her that, she said that she hasn't thought things all the way out yet. We talked for a bit also about what will happen after the kids are home. She pointed out that it is 10 weeks for the summer and said that she was hoping she'd still be able to see him somehow. We exchanged ideas that were possible, such as her and I going out on a standing date and it being really when we'd go to his place. That fell right into line with the earlier discusson about him coming here too. We also agreed that she could use some PTO time to see him if she felt it was needed. She smiled at that and said "lets talk about that when the time comes" - again, fueling my thoughts about this having a sooner than later end.

For Raks - I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree since I feel like a dog chasing it's tail as our discussions go round and round. The simple fact is I am enjoying what we're doing for the time being and no, I don't want to push that issue with her and tell her that I need her when I really don't feel that way (yet). That wouldn't be honest on my part and would convey something very different than how things are to Sue - I am sure if she saw that I suddenly needed to feel her again without other reason, that she might change direction and think that this isn't okay for me or us.

For Cleaner. If I had to describe Mr. Right, it'd be the attitude of Don (I still think she'd like a more dominant guy), Robert's cock (overall size), Paul's technique, but if I remember correctly - she gloated about how much Glenn, her summer paramour, would cum in her. I will be humble and admit that given a choice of just cock only, that she may opt for Robert liking the size aspect.

I will also comment as i get on my conference call here that while I always appreciated and was turned on (since before we even met and I knew she'd been with other guys I worked with) that she fucked many other guys and almost always took them bare. Now, it no longer seems weird to say that I enjoy knowing that. I know that a lot of guys, certainly non-cucks, can't fathom this, but it really doesn't phase me that she fucks Paul like she does. No more than it's bothered me about the tens of other guys in her past, some of whom she still will talk fondly of. So her fondness of Paul right now, while it seems crazy in some ways, that she's there wanting him to fuck the shit out of her tonight, honestly, that part gets to me the least, as weird as that sounds. I do miss fucking her - I do miss it all - but at the same time, I am not yet at the breaking point and I AM still enjoying this as is she while she at the same time says she is resolving her issues. Are they real or contrived? Doesn't really matter to me, they seem real to her, or real enough to let her use them to justify what she is doing - either way, she wants to fuck him right now and she has made it clear that in the next 3 weeks she wants it a lot. I've gone this far, these next few weeks really are more of an arousal at seeing her getting more and more worked up than anything else.

More later.

 

[dana007]

STB
What about giving her a gift and offer her a third night for the next three week's.
keep us posted.

 

[dana007]

STB
It was just a throught i had , that you could give her a mother's day gift .with that in mind.
keep us posted.

 

[SoonToBe]

She may get a 3rd night with Paul this week if she invites him over this coming weekend, but as far as a 3rd night during the week - I suppose if she wanted it she'd ask for it but to be honest, 2 nights with her away is hard enough.

So, as I said, sometimes I wonder about this rediscovery thing of hers, but at times she seems very serious about it. Our conversation yesterday as I said included her asking me about how it felt to be the beta and whether it was what I had hoped it would be. I shared part of that earlier, but what I also told her was that while it's difficult for me at times, that I was enjoying things so far and yes, I surely missed feeling her in all ways, I told her at the same time I am also incredibly aroused and horny about her all the time. She asked how I felt other than sex and as we talked it seemed she wanted to make sure that in other areas, that things hadn't changed. I surprised her and told her they had which caught her off guard until I told her some of the things I've shared here that I am pleasantly enjoying with her. Her response was "that's good, I'm glad you are understanding me" but it was a spontaneous response too which brings me back to thinking that maybe she really is figuring herself out like she said.

She surprised me and told me that she, in some ways, feels more sexually aware of me than before. When I pushed her to explain, she said that because I seem to be so open and able to now say what I am feeling and "enjoying" by not being with her that she feels she's more aware of me and she said that being there with me when I masturbate, even though it's not directly stimulating her, that it does make her feel horny and aroused. I asked her if that was a conflict for her and she answered me very poignantly and said no, that it's what she wants to learn to feel that it's okay about - meaning that she merely watch and encourage me but that she doesn't feel she has to participate with me. So I guess that's the crux of it for her, to get herself where she doesn't feel this unsaid obligation.

Well, that was the "heavy" part of the conversation. There was more but enough for now. What she didn't hide was that she likes the sex with him and that she is really happy that she can share that with me - in several different ways now - including her being quite explicit with me - and now, enjoying that she doesn't have to "put out" to me and that she can enjoy how she feels afterwards. She was quite glowing about his oral skills and told me in several different ways how his tongue feels - yes because we were talking openly - but also because she rarely misses an opportunity to give me a little tease. And she made no secret about telling me how it is fucking him, she talked quite comfortably actually, including how different his shape is and of course, how he can make her moan and cum like crazy.

The thing I never hear from her is anything about him other than having fun with him. There's never a talk about doing something next week/month, etc., there's never a talk of "he and I were....". Someone here called him a human dildo, I sometimes think about him that way.

I'm tired but yet know I'll toss and turn all night long without her.

 

[dana007]

STB
thank's for your answer. hope all goes well for you tonight.
keep us all posted.

 

[wingman]

STB - Ever thought about really pushing your buttons and suggesting she spend the entire week (including weekends on either side) with Paul (at his place) before the kids come home. They could face-time you every night to give you a peek, and she could face-time you to watch your wed night self-fun. If you really want the angst, have her tell Paul she is exclusive to him while she is face-timed to you (then they could both tease you a bit).

Sounds like things are going well, so even if it progresses no further, it will be some fun weeks!

 

[wingman]

STB - Ever thought about really pushing your buttons and suggesting she spend the entire week (including weekends on either side) with Paul (at his place) before the kids come home. They could face-time you every night to give you a peek, and she could face-time you to watch your wed night self-fun. If you really want the angst, have her tell Paul she is exclusive to him while she is face-timed to you (then they could both tease you a bit).

Sounds like things are going well, so even if it progresses no further, it will be some fun weeks!

 

[Knk069]

Thanks for the updates Steve. I hope tonight goes well with Sue still at Paul's.
Dana mentioned giving her a Mother's Day gift of a third night. I think another gift should be a couple sexy lingerie sets that she could use exclusively with Paul. That would further show your support, as well as feed your imagination thinking about how she looks wearing them.

In post 591 you talked about how Sue said she doesn't love Paul and has no long-term desires for him. My wife and i were just talking about friendship relationships outside of marraige and it got me thinking about their relationship. My guess is that Paul is a 'safe' or 'comfortable' relationship for her. She doesnt feel enough for him to fall in love like she did with Brad. Although he isn't a dominant like Don, Paul doesn't pose the threat to your marriage Don did by trying to pull her away. He can get her off as well as Robert. Unlike Frank (I think), Paul isn't looking for a wife. All in all, Paul is not a threat to your marriage because he doesn't want more than sex (although at times is seemed different), she can enjoy herself, and she knows you love her.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, just got home and am hopefully heading over a buddy's house for a few beers and to watch some tube tonight for a while to pass the time.
I'll be home by about 10pm in time for her call usually about 10:30pm.

Lingerie for Mothers Day might be nice - it's be very sexy if when she wore them for me eventually that she would tease me about having already enjoyed wearing them for Paul.

Wing - she hasn't ever said she wanted more time than she has with him now so its not something I'm going to suggest but if she wanted, she would come out and say it.

Knk - you have it summed up from what I see and what she's told me about Paul and how she feels. Yes, she's admitted that lying in bed with him at night, it does get romantic and they do make out and all of that, but she swears it's "situational" and that it doesn't mean anything. She insists that other than screaming it out during their moments of passion, that neither of them has used the "L" word.

More later.

 

[Cuck-Rick]

Hi Steve,
I just wondering what kind of story you tell your buddy about why your not home with Sue?

Rick