Denial 2015

[Harry2614]

Steve, My thoughts have been greatly influenced by the following reference, from a very inspiring person.
This has caused me to understand that by constantly 'advising & urging' you to do something that is obviously not within your frame of mind, and would not fulfill your desires/fantasies, I am only burdening my own psyche with thoughts/concerns I neither need or want. I understand that you have a scientific & technical mind, therefore what follows should be easy to comprehend.

“By paying attention to the way you feel, and then choosing thoughts that feel the very best, you are managing your own vibration, and point of attraction — Which means you are creating your own reality.
It's beneficial to realize then, that you can create your own reality without trying to ‘manage’ someone else's. So the less attention you give to somebody else's chosen reality, the purer your vibration is going to be — And the more you are going to be pleased with what comes to you.” Abraham [December 8th, 2001]

"Such an excellent reminder for us to consciously make the choice to give everyone the same freedom we would want for ourself. Freedom to do what is theirs to desire, or do.

If what they are doing isn’t what you think it should be, by becoming involved your attention is drawn in, and the 'law of attraction’ will draw you into their environment. The Universe interprets that (dispassionately and neutrally) as a desire on your part to experience similar.

This is why and how we are creators of our own reality. Better to focus on thoughts that will return an emotional feedback of happy and pleasant feelings, and your ‘reality’ will be likewise." Larry Swartz Unity of Tucson. 04/17/2015

As an example, I give people massage to relieve their aches & pains. I do not ’take on’ the cause of their discomfort. So in consideration of that advise, I shall no longer try to 'lead' you in any direction at all. But leave you to your own thoughts/imaginations.

I have not been a believer of everything you have written (especially the 'Paul chapter') anyway. I’m sure you have known that. I may read along, as I would a novel, Just to see how you'll bring it to a close. You could continue to 'tell it as it appears to be,' or you could disappear into the vapor as 'radicalguy,' who wrote the 'Rick&Brenda’ story did. Rumor has it that he didn't fare so well in the end. I wouldn't wish that upon you, Steve.

So for my own health and benefit, as stated above, I will discontinue posting here. I guess I have willed to do this before, but am now much more serious.

Feel free to PM, or e-mail me if you wish.

Cheers, Harry

 

[wingman]

Stb. If she told him she was exclusive to him and wanted his help in teasing u more, with things like spending more time together, face timing during sessions,etc, might that stoke him up to go for more with her?

 

[SoonToBe]

Wow Harry, thanks so much for your post, yes sarcastically intended. I wonder why people seem to feel the need to put such posts up - surely it makes you feel better somehow - but adds zero for everyone else other than sharing YOUR thoughts. And you know what I've already told you about whether you believe or not, I could care less.

Knk, Mundy and Peak - all I can tell you is the side I've heard from her which I took as a bit of resentment (in a way) or perhaps disappointment? that more hasn't been asked/suggested by Paul - but Mundy, maybe you've hit it with the last part of your post - something that I'd felt since the beginning, that he's not aggressive/dominant enough.

But the absence of that from him may also be what's happened to her. We've talked more in these past few days/nights now that we aren't having sex and she's said several things to me that have really made me see that she is quite serious about her "new discovery" about herself and how she thinks she's felt for so long. The one thing she's repeatedly said is that she loves how she feels now that she is forcing herself to separate us sexually and that she's again said she likes how she feels regarding "control" of her sexual desires, again harping back to that somehow, she's always felt this pressure to perform with me sexually and now she's saying that she's felt it even more up until recently where she's long felt that she needed to be with me and in a way, make up for it with me by feeling like she had to have sex with me after she'd been with her lover.

Maybe it's all bs from her but there's clearly some truth to it from how she is so calm about saying what she feels even when it's not a sexual moment. And then there are the things she's said that make me a bit heistant about things in general too. One thing she did say that has me concerned was that she's said a few times now that she feels like she needs to be with Paul enough times to "forget how it felt with you" meaning me. She's picked up on how that statement has hit me and she's said it's not meant to be a bad thing about me or us, just that she wants to feel the same kind of unfettered and self-driven sexual desire for me like she feels with Paul, instead of the guilt-overtone feeling she now says she's felt. When I asked her more she says that it's just how she feels but then will admit that it is for real sometimes for her, that sometimes when she now seems me naked that it turns her on to think about how it's going to be when she does feel me again. She even made light of it and told me that when she does want to have sex with me again that she's going to "feel very tight" when we get to it and she's said (quite openly as if it's nothing) that it's only the head on his cock that is "so big" and that she feels her pussy is actually quite tight.

I should have mentioned that when I was out for a while yesterday evening, that when I came back and went up to our bedroom/bathroom, that "Jim" her favorite dildo was lying on the bathroom countertop - obviously having just been washed up. So she'd been masturbating when I was out. But it also fit into her conversation when she kissed me to make me feel more comfortable in our conversation and she said that when we get back together, that she can't wait to feel me again in her knowing how I am going to make her feel. Of course she also threw in a bit of a tease and told me "of course it'll all feel new to you baby".

I did ask how things were between them and she said a contented sounding "they're good" and then added that so far that things seem to be staying in control and she mentioned maybe spending 2 nights with him again next week, she suggested maybe Tuesday and Wednesday? I told her that it was the first time in a long time that it'll be more than one night away from me. She said something about only having a few more weeks before the kids come home. When I asked her if that was going to change things - she giggled and said "not between you and me" but she did say that she expected things to change with Paul but when I asked her more she said she wasn't sure what was going to happen. Then she giggled and said "maybe he'd better fuck me a lot by then" so she can hopefully feel like she's ready to move on with things. I admit it seemed kind of a crazy thought to me that in a way she wants to fuck him even more to help her "disconnect" from me.

Despite the gloomy nature of our talk, it didn't feel that way - I really felt she was just being honest with me and telling me how she feels - something she says she couldn't ever own up to earlier. When she asked, I had to nod my head and say that we do feel closer together in many ways without having sex with each other.

I will end here by saying that when we woke up this morning she said thank-you to me for not pressuring her about sex and not pushing it in her face that I was obviously horny. She said she doesn't mind me masturbating at all but admits that sometimes she even still feels a little guilt at knowing I am jerking off because she isn't fucking me - and when she said that I think I may have even seen/understood a little about what she meant. I'm sure it must feel good to her to know that last night, for example, even though I was horny and all that, that instead we lay together in bed, spooned up, just hugging and caressing and massaging/rubbing each other but not at all sexual. I guess I kind of understood what she might have felt had she known I went off to our office to masturbate, or what she might have felt if I lay there next to her and did it.

I'm not sure I understand it all, but at least I can see and feel some of what she's saying at times. And I guess if I feel it a little like last night, that it must have been a big realization for her to come forward with - and she continues to tell me it's about her own self even more than it's about me - that she understands guys will "always want sex".

More later.

 

[raksdeer]

One thing she did say that has me concerned was that she's said a few times now that she feels like she needs to be with Paul enough times to "forget how it felt with you" meaning me. She's picked up on how that statement has hit me and she's said it's not meant to be a bad thing about me or us, just that she wants to feel the same kind of unfettered and self-driven sexual desire for me like she feels with Paul, instead of the guilt-overtone feeling she now says she's felt. .

Is it even possible to forget that? have you started forgetting how it felt with her? And her makeup statement is even worse - She wants to feel the same kind of "unfettered and self-driven sexual desire" that she feels with Paul. Buddy you have already lost her if she feels that way with you. It's just like saying that eating something (good or delicious) every day will make me forget how bad the food that I was eating daily. And after I forget (because of eating delicious food daily) that how may daily food tasted, I will develop a taste for having the same thing again. Sorry STB, but please think clearly! Please. !

 

[Mundyman]

Steve,
It sounds like Sue has some serious issues to work out in regards to her feelings about you. Unfortunately, or fortunately, she is doing it while playing and possibly connecting emotionally with another.
Is it possible that while she is still emotionally in love with you, or at least connected to you, that she is no longer physically in love with you. Sue's statements that she wants to play more with Paul so she can "forget how it felt with you" would freak me out to. Honestly, who says that? I thought the physical part of a relationship is supposed to be so awesome you never want to be WITHOUT that feeling.
It would seem to me that her issues run a lot deeper than perhaps you both want to acknowledge. While she tells you she looks forward to being with you,eventually, does she believe that or is she just saying that for your benefit?
I wouldn't call this a midlife crisis she is having, but more a crisis of desire for you sexually. And if and when you do start being physical again what if it doesn't meet her expectations? Are you back to where you are now? Is she at the age of her life that she desires more different experiences rather than the same old Steve?
Good luck Steve, I realize more is communicated between you two than you can ever begin to share here. It's just that the last couple of posts have taken a somewhat ominous tone from where I sit.

 

[SoonToBe]

Mundy and Raks - yes, at the end of it all, we've discovered something about Sue and maybe I'm minimizing it for now, but yes, it something that can't be "un-found". The thing is, I have no doubt that she loves me. I do already feel the disconnect sexually, and yes Raks - it does concern me - but at the same time, right now, she knows that I want to feel this kind of denial by her - so for now, without saying so, we both know what we are doing. Without saying it and without saying it in so many words, there is a lot more that I feel between us now that I'll admit to.

I believe that she is playing this up much more than it really is, but it is convenient for her to do so in that - at least from how I feel - she is using it to justify what she wants to do. I will also say that taken of context, her statement about wishing to forget how it feels to be with me sexually does appear severe - but I know how she meant it and it isn't meant to mean to forget me physically or so totally, but to forget it enough that as she's said - that it will all feel very new when we do re-connect.

And perhaps thats the thing that I haven't emphasized enough for everyone - and that's what I said when we both said like things were accelerating quickly. Yes, we've moved to this denial phase much more sooner than I'd ever thought, and yes, she's vocalized a lot of things that she wants to resolve. But what I also hear, or rather don't hear, is anything about Paul in the future other than in a teasing way. My honest thought is that the things that we've put into motion will accelerate things between them and between us and that within the next few weeks, that I feel things will become more clear - they have to by the time our kids get home - so in my head, she wants to take all the brakes off and let this happen as fully as it can in the short 6 weeks or so we have left of our empty next. Her mention of 2 nights in a row is out of place in my head given the sense of 'rejection' that I know she felt about this weekend with him, again, I can only feel that it is her trying to wring every drop of cuckold/beta actions as can be.

I thought I'd have more time right now, but we're going to watch some TV for a while and then she's promised me some "fun" later so I am quite eager to be with her.

 

[Mundyman]

Cheers and best wishes for a funday Sunday night!!

 

[golfman2315]

STB do you think that Sue reads what you write here or have you two talk in such detail about what you desires that she seems able to deliver it almost perfectly?

It seems to me that ever since your total denial started she has really been playing to your desires and giving you exactly the experience you want. There is little doubt that Sue really enjoys the sex with Paul but all the other stuff seems to be playing to your wants from the little reminder that you got when rubbing her back to her leaving "Jim" out for you to see.

I still wonder if she would prefer that the situation was more like with Robert where you guys could have periods of denial but not the fullness of the current arraignment. In the current scenario you get what you want but does she truly get what she wants? It seems to me that in some ways that she is being denied as well.

No matter what Sue is an extraordinaire woman and wife to have given you these experiences for all these years.

 

[Knk069]

Steve,
I chuckled when I read that "Jim" made a reappearance. I was thinking about it this weekend and was going to post a question to ask if Sue was using "Jim" while Paul is away. For someone as sexually charged as Sue it must feel like an eternity to wait while her lover is away. All husbands should be so lucky to have such a sexual wife (even if he isn't getting any!).

A couple months ago I was pretty sure that Paul was trying to take Sue away from you. I am glad that I was wrong. Now, he isn't very aggressive about sex with Sue (except when in the act), which is bothering Sue. He wanted to know about "dating" and going away when you came out to him about the alpha/beta roles. Now, he is going away and not inviting Sue. Maybe there is a good reason that doesn't affect their relationship. But it does raise questions. Do you think Paul may be seeing someone else or working on a new relationship? I hope not.

Finally, Sue has always been lover-monogamous from what I have read. Only one outside lover at a time. Do you think that might change if Paul isn't seeing her enough and she still wants to totally deny you? I'm sure Tony might like another time or two. Also, I seem to remember from some posts before Paul started that Sue might go back to that conference where she slept with Bill and might run into him again. Is that still on? Do you think she would sleep with someone else while still with Paul?

Hope you had a great weekend and a have great week despite two nights alone.

 

[SoonToBe]

From the PM's and emails I've received, perhaps I haven't been playing up the "other parts" of our communications and overall togetherness that have definitely been increasing for both of us. Yes, her sexual denial of me has also been increasing but some of the notes I received said I should convey more of those changes so that people like Raks and others wouldn't view this as so much doom-and-gloom. One longtime friend here actually said he thought this was a good thing for us, that it represents something most 30-year-married's and generally considered older-folks wouldn't ever consider or be able to do.

After seeing the posts here and the notes I received I asked her last night as we lay together in bed, whether this was okay for us or whether I was losing her. For Raks - unless she was acting, in which case she deserves an Oscar - she turned to me and almost had tears in her eyes when she told me that she loved me and never wanted to lose me. As she sniffed and took a moment to reply that she wanted this to be as good for me as it can be while she works through things and that she doesn't want to hurt me. I told her that I loved her and that as long as we were together it would all be okay. She told me "it's not forever baby" and then we snuggled into spooning together. As we spooned she murmured to me how close we feel like that and she was quite clear that even though she could feel that my cock was chubby-ing up, that she said it was nice that she could let herself know that she didn't have to let me have her and that I would be okay. I told her that it turned me on that there were two thin layers of cotton separating us and that I knew I would have to find my own relief but that I loved being against her and feeling her next to me just the same, if not more even. She pulled my arms tightly around her as I said that and said "that's it.... I love you".

I never asked about "Jim" being out in the bathroom nor did I mention anything when it got put away. I don't know if I was supposed to find that or not but my god did it turn me on to think of her relieving her own desires and knowing she wanted to separate them from me. I know that some here cannot understand that and yeah, it's a little scary for sure. But at the same time, she's come this far and has been able to share and vocalize what she has and I've actually understood it once she was able to explain it more, so the question I have asked and answered myself is how I could possibly tell her not at this point, that after all of this she can't continue exploring herself. I don't think I can do that and by doing that I would have to tell her that I don't trust that we can put things back together and that I don't trust that she knows, loves and understands what we're doing - when that flies in the face of all that we talk about and communicate about. So in a way, I would have to call her a liar or that she's not realistic with herself, if I say that I want her to hold back from what she now feels somewhat driven to resolve.

More later

 

[UKResearcher]

Although I have read every one of your posts right from the start, I haven’t posted since long before Robert. However something that I think important was said in your last post. It has been obvious to many for a while that your situation has moved beyond you having the beta experience that you wanted. Your wife’s reported words seem to highlight the crux of the new situation but I don’t think that the ‘things’ that she wants to work through have ever been exactly defined.

 

[SoonToBe]

Uk - near as I can tell since my opening up about my wanting to more fully experience the beta-role, she seems to have seized on a previously unknown but apparently long-standing feeling of some kind of sexual pressure to perform and participate with me over the years. I sort of understand it. The things I see her wanting to work out are resetting the feeling of her feeling pressure to give me some sort of sexual interaction when she sees that I am aroused and/or horny. So, when she says she has things she wants to work out, I am now more clearly understanding that she wants to find a way to remove that self-generated feeling of pressure to have sexual relations with me just because she thinks I want it - rather I actually want it to be when she wants it. She says that to do that, she needs to feel her own sexuality with Paul separate and in exclusion of me. I sort of get it, by forcing the separation between us, she gets to control how/when she has sex and gets to tease the heck out of me in the meanwhile. But that's about as specific as I think I can get without going "too psychologist" on you.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
I can see where everyone is getting upset. This latest phase of your life with Sue breaks the pattern of her previous lover experiences by her desired treatment of you and by you desire for her to have her way with it. If she hadn't wanted the denial at this stage I'm not sure which would have won out, your desire to take on the beta role or your desire for denial itself. The point is moot though.

I think the big thing we worry about is the WHY Sue feels this way at this time. The mechanics of it are easier to see. In any long term loving relationship a certain pressure must build up. In some relationships more than others perhaps. One partner usually wants sex more than the other and however subtle that one may be about it, the other senses the desire. This creates a pressure to respond, either to refuse or sometimes to perform when not wanting to really do so. If the more active partner is also the dominant partner, this pressure could get quite high in the submissive who will want to please the dominant who they love.

This kind of pressure doesn't exist in an affair as both partners there take the trouble to really listen and build every precious encounter to maximise their own and their partners pleasure. A date wouldn't even go ahead if both didn't want to do so on that day. In Sue's case this would have been felt by her as a great release when she was with her lovers and may explain partly why she has said she would always want one in her life in some way. It may partly be why she seemed to react differently with you when away on holiday as your build up during such days would act as a sort of 'date' with her and get her into the same relaxed mode.

What you have now is Sue in dominant mode for the first time. This is the big change and it is from this that the disquieting changes and responses have emerged from. Sue has voiced how she felt. It is not a reaction of someone who doesn't love you but someone that does but doesn't want that pressure in her life again. Maybe she even sees that without that pressure she may not even need lovers in the future, at least in the same way. However, like all addictive withdrawals, it takes time to reset her reactions and also yours. You need to stop your 'short cut' wooing responses that sometimes got sex in the past. Stop thinking of 'fucking' Sue and always start by thinking of making love with her (even if it turns into fucking because it's what you both want). In dominant mode, Sue is simply able to finally say what she really wants. You need to bear in mind that fortunately this has coincided with you wanting a beta role. Just bear in mind that your cucky desire to 'obey orders' is not the same thing as listening to what she says and understanding what is behind it. The 'reset' will only work when Sue feels confident enough in her newly dominant skin to let you back in as an equal, and when you truly understand what she is driving at and change your approach to lovemaking more akin to that of a new lover. Listening, watching, reacting and only going forward when mutual pleasure can be maximised.

In the meantime, the lady needs satisfaction. Whether that is from 'Bill' or her human version, Paul really is of no emotional consequence to her. It all is just enabling her to repair her loving relationship with you in a way that makes sense to her, and hopefully to you too. One thing is for sure. Life after Paul will not reset to exactly as it was this time. Sue will not become the submissive she was partly was before, and your alpha wings may never grow back, certainly not in the same way.

Or that's my spin on it at the moment...

 

[dana007]

STB
So did Sue and you talk about,her going to stay with Paul for two night's in a row.
is she going to aleast stay tonight with him.
keep us posted.

 

[peakmb]

Steve, your night alone is about to start I guess. Time to reflect. Maybe even update here. Let us know how you're feeling.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, you can only stay at work just so late. Yes, it's an empty house.

Reflecting - yeah, for sure. I find myself feeling torn on nights like these - one part of me definitely misses her here and, well, the other part has me already horny thinking about her. For a change though, she promised to call me this evening rather than just a few text messages.

She did say that she's not sure she's staying tomorrow night though, that she might opt to come home late instead. Nonetheless, she did take enough clothes and such for 2 nights. She smiled when she saw that I was hard as I watched her packing her stuff in just her silky (and skimpy) bathrobe that she later did put in her bag as she got dressed. I know, well at least in my head, she played up a bit more of our whole morning routine - again, I really think she is as I've said "pushing my nose in it" and making a bigger deal out of things. Just little things like her not tying her robe very tight and letting me see her as if it were just accidental or her just happening to wait till I was in the bathroom before she let me see her run the razor around her legs and then between them as she finshed in the shower.

For Dana - when I asked her more about "why 2 nights?" - she said that "the timing is good" and when I asked further she said that it's something she's wanted (no, I didn't mention whether it's her way of getting her 'weekend' with him) for a while now. I guess, thinking about it, she must be horny herself as I'm pretty sure she isn't one to masturbate a lot other than what I guess she wanted me to see.

I didn't ask but still feel that she is accelerating everything.

And yes, the thought of her likely being in something sexy, or perhaps just one of his dress-shirts as she used to enjoy, either way the thought of her pussy likely getting wet as she thinks about finally getting laid herself has me very turned on.

I hope it doesn't sound too weird but so far, I am enjoying how it is feeling to detach from her sexually like this. The strangest and perhaps most awkward thing I am dealing with is that when she gets home she really will not want to have anything to do with me sexually, even after being gone for so long. Again, something I want to feel and want to experience, it's the only way I can explain it.

 

[dana007]

STB
Sound's like Sue is giving ,you everything you are wanting and more. well have your fun tonight and let us know if there is any nrws.
keep us posted.
ps do you think that there is any change that he will ask her to , go away with him for a weekend in the next six week's.

 

[SoonToBe]

She called me earlier and got me distracted. I was surprised, we talked for a few minutes. She shared a bit of humor from her job today about some mutual acquaintances - among other things. I didn't ask nor did she share anything about what she was doing (or had done), but we talked about tomorrow and she said that if she did come home that it would be late - and she reminded me that she was working from home on Thursday so that made more sense to me why she'd want to be home.

I received several PM's and emails from many people here who are starting to see what I think I'm seeing. One realization that I have is that to put into words what I've thought - her desire to forget-me isn't to forget me physically, but it's to forget her response to me, that "pressure" she says. It was an interesting thought that makes more sense to me the more I have thought about it tonight.

I will say that I am once again wicked horny and turned on that looking at the clock and seeing 12:30am, that I have an almost perverse sense of enjoyment at the thought of her perhaps sleeping naked next to him after an evening of sex. As with the last 8 years, I can't explain it other than to say it turns me on.

Dana - I'm not sure, to answer your last question. As I said, maybe her desire for 2 nights is a way to have that with him her way if he won't ask of initiate.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, after another fitful night of sleep, she did surprise me this morning with a "good morning sweetie" text message.
Otherwise, well, it's another morning without her here.

 

[dana007]

STB
So did you get good new's from Sue, is she going to stay abain tonight or come home later.
keep us posted.