Denial 2015

[Knk069]

Steve,
Thanks for the great updates. Like, Manon, I had some thoughts on Sue deciding not to stay over at Paul's tonight. Earlier today I started to write that this was some good news/bad news. The good news is that Sue is tapping the brakes a little (Not fully hitting them) so that things don't get too out of hand. The bad news is that it got to the point where she had to slow things down. She has spent the night with him since Valentine's Day, so that argues against Manon's possibility 2. Your response about trying her staying on Tuesday nights seemed positive enough that I don't think it would cause Sue a concern, which would argue against possibility 1. So I suspect that Manon's possibility 3 may be what is really at play in her decision.

If it is number 3, whose's emotions are heating up? Sue, like my wife and other women I know, tends to downplay or underestimate her emotional attachments (i.e., Brad, Robert). So it could be Sue feeling herself being drawn in emotionally and, thankfully, hitting the brakes a little. I think Paul may be the one getting more attached. Paul may be asking her to stay over more often as he has been ramping up his alpha role. In the month leading up to Valentine's weekend he progressively (or regressively?) exhibited less and less concern for your feelings to the point that he was pretty much in your face that weekend trying to show his ownership of Sue's sexuality. Since then he has demonstrated some concern but that might be because Sue told him to. Regardless of whose's attachement, Sue backing off a little is the right thing.

Of course, there is another less ominous possibility. Maybe Sue is trying to avoid sexual/emotional burnout with Paul. She has mentioned that things could start to wear thin (or something to that effect). She has been getting a lot of very intense sex from Paul two or three nights a week lately. And it has been fairly regular - Tuesday and Saturday. That new relationship energy level (new since New Year's) can only sustain itself for so long before the intensity lessens. She might be trying to extend that time of intensity. If that is the case, maybe some quickies after work (like tonight), before work or during lunch (don't forget the period pads!!) might let her have the exciting sex without the drawn out post coital tenderness that can build emotional attachment. Just a thought.

Best of luck during these times.

 

[peakmb]

For those playing the numbers game, what is your prediction for the Tuesday next week after the two night skiing weekend? On or off?

 

[Knk069]

Yes to seeing Paul after work but no to an overnight stay. I think Sue is setting some limits to keep things under control. If Paul stays with them, he and Sue could have sex (make love?) as many as 7 times - 2x each evening, 1x each morning, and maybe once midday Saturday to play out Steve & Sue's fantasy of her slipping back to the condo for sex with someone before meeting up with Steve again. That's almost as many times that Steve has this year. No matter what, I hope it is an exciting weekend for all.

 

[peakmb]

Knk, you're not the first to comment about the sheer number of times that Sue is making out with Paul at the moment. Question is, with her missing her usual session last night, did she substitute any sort of contact last night or perhaps tonight. My bet is allowing Steve to watch while she brings herself off. A crumb from the table of plenty but a meal to a starving man?

 

[SoonToBe]

Just finished exercising and Sue's already suggested that we have our usual Wednesday night fun later so I am now looking forward to that!!!!

Knk - yes, I am well aware of the potential for the weekend. Crazy part, I would love to see it happen and while I am sure I will regret saying this when I'm lying there alone sleeping, I am glad he is going to stay with us for both nights. Maybe it's as you said, close to living out my ski-lodge fantasy. All I know is that I am strangely looking forward to seeing her be so open and sexual with him.

To Raks and others concerns about feeling desires and her knowing that I want her - of course she knows that I want her. The part I guess, about denial that you find hard to understand is the arousal I feel at her preferring sex with Paul right now. It's something that I can't explain but I want to feel what it's like to be with her but not be sexual with her and to know she is getting that from him and not me - of course it's more than just sex - for me it's seeing this look on her face of just bliss and knowing that I'm giving her something she couldn't have ever known she'd want, something taboo. I can feel so much more about her - even just looking at her I feel a whole new way about her and feel desires that I'd long forgotten or diminished. Just seeing her naked and knowing how long it's been since I've felt her bare pussy now - it's such a turn on to have her be off limits like that and yet to still feel so fulfilled being with her by all these other things. Just being around her seems so much more enjoyable and fulfilling, like I"m re-noticing parts of her that I'd overlooked for so long. Or perhaps, resetting their importance - how soft her hair is, how she feels when she breathes so relaxedly when she's in my arms (and that's where I so feel that I had so long pressured her), that it's fulfilling to me.

Anyway - my cock is hard already anticipating later tonight.

As far as last night - that's what I was referring to - no, no sexual contact, but a lot of closeness that was something special.

 

[wingman]

... my ski-lodge fantasy. All I know is that I am strangely looking forward to seeing her be so open and sexual with him....

I missed the description of the ski-lodge fantasy. Would you mind doing a recap, or let me know where to find it?
Thanks

 

[SoonToBe]

Sure Wing. I'd told this to Sue a long time ago. We go away skiing and stay in a condo that is sort of a smaller 'lock-off' from a larger one. We hear commotion next door but pay no attention but while skiing we meet and then learn that a bunch of guys are staying in the condo next door and that evening we unlock the connecting doors and hang together. Varying levels of details, but in the longer version some of the guys have some porn on the TV in another room and they joke with Sue about being a prude and she says they can leave it on, she doesn't mind. Alcohol and other intoxicants are consumed and over the course of the night and the rest of the time there, Sue becomes their plaything and freely goes from guy to guy. Again, varying levels of detail but common theme.

So - last night was a surprise - as if there can still be more. As I said earlier last night, I was horny and waiting. So when we headed upstairs towards the bedroom about 9:45pm I was quite ready. I went in the bathroom to get a bit cleaned up and when I came back out she was lying on our bed looking very enticing and I noticed the nightstand drawer was open where the condoms were. I climbed upon the bed and I asked her what was up. She said that it'd been since last week that we'd had sex together and she said that she was thinking that it wouldn't be until after we get back from the weekend that we'd have the chance again and she said that if I needed it, that she wanted to do it with me. She said we'd be packing and stuff tonight and that she'd want to be "you know, getting ready" for Paul. I looked at her and I asked her if she really wanted it or if she was doing it because she felt like she had to or that she felt guilty about not. She was quiet for a moment and she asked me if I would be okay if we didn't. I told her that I hadn't expected it and she looked at me with almost a wondrous look and she said "ok, I wasn't sure" and then she smiled and giggled and said "well, do you want me to get undressed anyway?" and she told me how she knew that my seeing her but not having her was a turn-on for me on Wednesdays.

She reached over and put he hand on the nightstand drawer and looked back at me and said "you sure?" and I just nodded. As she closed it and she lay back down next to me I held her hand and I told her that i knew this was going to start to happen and I told her that it was okay, that I liked seeing her wanting Paul more and I told her that I really appreciated that she thought about me on Tuesday.

Well, we talked for a little while before I got down to business and she actually said some of what others here have said. That as the sex with Paul becomes more fulfilling - and she said it - that as we have it less, that she finds it sometimes to be hard to "change gears" and to feel sexual with me. She said that she didn't think she'd start to feel this way so quickly with Paul. I didn't mention that my using condoms now for 2 months with her is also probably at play with her feeling more intensity and likely more of a hormonal/chemical attraction to him. She held me and told me that she still wants to feel me in her at times and admitted that even last night that she did want me to fuck her but she also told me that she knew she probably wouldn't cum with me. And with that she told me that she hated it when she felt like this and that she felt like she was depriving me and was "the worst wife ever" knowing I was so horny but that she didn't feel that way for me.

I held her tightly and told her that it was okay and that I knew this was going to happen and that it's okay if it's happening sooner as long as it's something we both are open and talk about (I thought about what others here posted and suggested). She told me she didn't deserve me, and we went back and forth for a bit until I finally told her that it would turn me on more to masturbate for her knowing how she felt that she didn't want to cum with me than it would for me to "use her" pussy. And as if indignant a bit - I told her "I don't want to do it in you". She giggled and said that she guessed if I truly chose that, then she would feel better. I joked back with her that "I guess you'll just have to watch and see!".

There was a bit more we talked about but that was the most important parts. At least for then....

After that conversation, I sort of felt kind of proud to pull down my boxers and start to stroke it in front of her. She pulled the front of her night-shirt up even more and revealed all of her pussy and as I started to stroke it she started to tell me about her thoughts for the weekend. She touched herself and ran her finger up the furrow of her pussy and teased me that "Paul's going to have me all weekend baby" and she encouraged me to tell her about how I felt. I told her about being horny about her living out my skiing fantasy and she giggled and said "well, it's not a bunch of guys" but she did moan a bit when I told her that I hoped she and Paul would feel like they can do whatever they want. She cooed and teased back at me "oh, you want to watch, huh baby?" and she teased me about "wanting to see me". The effect was obvious - my cock was so hard and she began to moan and said "baby your cock looks so hard and big" and she began to tease me "you'll really want me next week, won't you?" I moaned back in obvious agreement.

We talked, well as much as I could, about how things were progressing with Paul. She told me "how good he feels" and as I got closer, she told me "how much I cum with him..." and I told her that I loved watching her. I felt her hold my hand tighter and I knew she'd moved closer to my cock and she told me "I want to watch you..." and just how she sounded was so sexy that I just let go and as I started to cum she let out a loud moan and I am sure she did cum from her own arousal. I stroked until there was nothing left and she moved up and kissed me. When she ended the kiss she pulled back and asked me "is that as good for you as, you know....". I looked at her and told her that when she was with me and it was like it just was, that it was very satisfying and including feeling her next to me and with me, that in a way it was better right now. She kissed me again and when she moved back I told her that it was also really good when I came with them last time. Wow did that bring the most angelic look on her face, like hearing that from me was something she loved to hear. She held my hand and said "what about the other times, you know, when I'm out?". And I answered her honestly, I told her that it wasn't as good and that it always made me feel even more horny. "Is that okay?" and I held her hand and said "yes, in a way, that's what I want to feel more of". I couldn't believe that I said it. She asked me why if it doesn't do it for me. I admit it was a little weird talking to her like that while my chest and stomach were covered with my cum, but I told her that's the crazy part of this denial stuff that seems to turn me on, that in a way, feeling more horny for her is what I want to feel, knowing she is with him.

I think she was surprised by what I'd said. She leaned up on one elbow and began playing with my cum. She told me that seeing me cum always turns her on and that she loved knowing how I'd felt and why (she smiled at me). She drew out a string of cum and told me how sexy it is to play with my cum and that "it's not in me" and she looked up at me and said "it's been a while baby, are you still okay about all of this too, you know, the condoms?" I was very mellow and she was talking in this very calm sexy voice and I told her "yes, it's still really exciting". She brought a fingerful of cum up to my mouth and said "so you're still happy that it's just Paul's stuff in me?" and she let me lick her finger before I answered her and said "yes" and I felt a little sheephish as I said "it still turns me on".

So again, i keep seeing her looking for validation and verification from me but - I guess, maybe less and less. I think for me, I'm hoping that maybe this weekend will bring her forward a bit more.

Am I crazy to want this for this weekend? A part of me hopes she'll run around naked when we're in the condo and will let me see everything. I've already decided that there's really nothing to be embarassed about if I'm horny enough that I need to jerk off while I'm with them. I'm trying to break myself free from that weird feeling I guess I still have about it being "gay" or whatever if I jerk off in front of him/them.

Anyway - let me run - work calls.

 

[raksdeer]

I looked at her and I asked her if she really wanted it or if she was doing it because she felt like she had to or that she felt guilty about not. She was quiet for a moment and she asked me if I would be okay if we didn't. .

So she doesn't wants you...despite knowing that you are horny for her...? Doesn't wants you, but loves you...sounds weird ?? At least to me. Kind of difficult for me to digest. She offers you "Pity sex" and not because she wants it, she just wants you to get your rocks off. To me your relationship has become more exciting, but it has started its downhill travel. It seems to me that you wish that she should separate from you....and she will...or rather should I say..She already has.

 

[Harry2614]

Raks, To really understand what Steve is saying here and has written several times, in various ways over the past 6-7 years, you have to do some research and a lot of reading, back into his earlier threads.

Although these words are re-played many times very similarly at other points in his post's over the years, I suggest going back to the thread, "Sue and Robert" post's # 171-2 April 18, 2013 where in just a portion of that, Steve writes: "I told her that it turned me on to think of her giving her lover something that I can't have. That having her deny me sexual contact with her while openly being with her lover is a thought that can get me hard, even today after last night. I told her that I think about what could happen with her and Robert - how turned on I get seeing her naked body and knowing I can't have any of it. I even told her how it blows my mind to think about seeing her like that and either seeing his cum dribble out of her, or to see her in the bathroom with one foot up on the toilet as she cleans up from him.
I don't think she was ready for my explicitness, but in my head, it just seemed right to say it to her. I told her that knowing I was jerking-off instead of having her, was, ..... in my own head as demonstrating [of] my desire for her to do it - that I would masturbate instead of having sex with her - that in my head, it symbolized that I do want her to do it."

Be sure to read it all. Time has passed, but it seems that he would still give the same reasons for his choices today.

I'm sure you can look into the annals of psychology and find reasons why some men will 'act out' in this way. Maybe it's just a desire to "live on the edge." Maybe it's a form of self denial, (as in the life of a priest). Maybe they apply, and maybe not. I wont speculate here, but Steve does explain himself very well in the 2 posts I have referred to.

Cheers, Harry

 

[raksdeer]

The effect was obvious - my cock was so hard and she began to moan and said "baby your cock looks so hard and big" and she began to tease me "you'll really want me next week, won't you?" I moaned back in obvious agreement.
.

Of course you will really want her next week... But will she? I am sure she won't as she will be sated by the man she loves... Paul.

 

[Jaxunman]

Steve, the whole thing with you feeling strange (or gay) by masturbating in front of Paul is simply you hanging on to the last vestiges of your old alpha persona. You are now clearly assuming a role beyond beta in your sexual relationship with Sue, so why the issue demonstrating it in front of Paul? Do you not think he is already very much aware? Sue would send you out of the room with no objection from you in their first few times at your home, Sue has been sleeping overnight with him at his place, and has now slept all night with her in your bed twice. Yeah, I would say he definitely has a clue already that your hand is providing most of your relief right now. Your access to Sue's body has been steadily throttled down since Paul arrived on the scene. Just as you have been struggling to let go of your former place in Sue's sex life, Paul has probably known everything but has been struggling to let go of his nice guy persona and take the place you and Sue both want him in. I can easily see him progressing more and more. From early on in the gentlemanly way he showed his appreciation to you and was even a bit shy to accept what was being offered to him, to now, being more open in taking his pleasure from and with Sue and losing more and more of his inhibitions about showing affection with her in front of you. So while I agree it might have been a bit much for him to look around and see you masturbating the first few times he and Sue were together, that time has now passed to the point where I think they are much more concerned with each other's pleasure.


I am not sure I understand Sue's mild guilt about not having sex with you, Steve. She has said for a long time now how much it turns her on to watch you masturbate and expel on your stomach. She has made a show of playing with what you deposit into a condom before tossing your essence in the trash. She has on a few occasions (you may never how many in actuality since you discovered it a bit by accident) gone to the trouble of douching to clean your essence from herself. It would seem then that denial, therefore, should have her ecstatic! While at the same time, she can't achieve that big coma inducing orgasm of hers without internal ejaculation. I understand she has Paul cumming in her plenty and providing those orgasm now, but before Paul, and even Robert, why was she willing to give up her greatest pleasure just to keep your cum out of her?

Could Sue's behavior and desires now over where you ejaculate, be a manifestation from her feelings that she had always felt pressured to have sex with you? Has she ever mentioned how far back over the years with you that she felt pressured? Are condom use, masturbation, douching, and denial of you maybe fantasies she has always had in her head as a result of maybe feeling a bit resentful of having sex over the years with you when she did not really want to?

 

[peakmb]

There is a danger here of us all seeing this solely through male eyes. Not helped by having an understandably male narrative from Steve. Paul has only one person's feelings to worry about. So does Steve. Neither really care much about the other so long as Sue is okay. That leaves Sue with the emotional balance. There is nothing in actions or words that suggests she has lost her love for Steve, nor really that she has any such for Paul. This must create a conflict in any rational woman. One she tries to compartmentalise by restricting her physical interactions with Steve. She says she has trouble with this physical switching. Why can't we see that for what it is? Obviously there was a degree of guilt from her when she offered her pussy. She needed to limit it for her own sanity, not Steve's torture. Clearly she was relieved when he turned it down. This lust will burn out eventually. It looks like being an interesting ride till it does though.

 

[SoonToBe]

Raks - not sure why you keep mixing her being in love with Paul into things, at this point I think she has some feelings for him but I don't think she'd say she's "in love" with him, nor is love or lack of it something that's at play in her denial. I want her to feel these desires for Paul and to want her to want him. She's not hurting me and knows that even though I "want her", that I don't have to have her to feel satisfied.

Jax - you have asked a really interesting question that I never even thought of but now has me really thinking. I don't know and I'm not sure how to ask her that question but it really has struck me because of the logic in it. I honestly never thought of it from her perspective how it must have felt to always feel my arms around her and to continually feel me grabbing at her breasts - I mean I know I did it, it's just how it felt right as we snuggled together that I would hold her breasts, not necessarily in a sexual way but I know that she wouldn't have known that. And all the years of driving my hard-on into her backside with her obviously knowing if she's say yes that I would have been in her in a flash. Yeah, Jax, it's a curious question.

I know that she's much more open about accepting her own darker fantasies and desires, she still teases me at times about what "could have been" and she'll rub her stomach and that's not something she'd ever have gone towards in the past. I guess I deserve it if you're right, that I opened the door and she's now tasted what I guess in her mind is her responding, finally, to it. And, in a way, it's actually kind of exciting if that is what's happening as in many ways, whether that was the reason or other things, for her to want more of this type of sexual play and denial is still what I'd wanted. I guess, maybe it's a concern if she has some kind of resentment towards me because of it, but i don't think I feel any of that, just our realization of it.

 

[SoonToBe]

Just saw Peak's reply - and I think you continue to say what is in my mind almost better than I can express it.
I think you've captured what I was trying to say and I think, what she was feeling as it's what I tried to convey.
I've said that I think she feels conflicted in many ways other than just this. What I think is common to all of those conflicts is that her knowing I want her to do it and that it turns me on is something that I am not sure is ever going to change in some ways.

 

[Jaxunman]

Steve, I appreciate the reply from you. There is no substitute for getting clarity on stuff straight from the source and I thank you! I think anyone can appreciate the in depth descriptions you provide as you are traveling the path of sexual denial you are on.

Peak, I am not sure if your above post was in any way directed at me or not. I asked STEVE a few questions trying to see what drives some of Sue's desires. Nothing more, nothing less. For the record, I don't see any issues at all for Steve and Sue in this. They are not doing anything with Paul that they have not done with others and they handle everything well. I think the secret to much of their success is they are marching to the beat of their own drum. No matter how loud the other drums in here get and try to change their cadence, Steve and Sue keep marching to their own beat. Got to admire that. Too much of the advice here, if followed, by now would have had Steve wearing women's clothes, in chastity, blowing strange men in darkened porn theaters, and unable to look at himself in the mirror!!

 

[raksdeer]

Steve, do tell me if you find my queries intrusive. Yes you tell us that you "want her and still need no have her to feel fully satisfied". As you are realizing and as we all know that this is going to escalate to full denial. For how long..is not know. Assuming that this affair with Paul will run its own course (and we don't know in how much time) and knowing that Sue is feeling less and less sexual towards you (even during this two months limited time)...it seems to me that when (and if it does) this ends......will sue feel sexual towards you ever again? I am sure both of you must have talked about the long term. Or you are stepping on the accelerator while going downhill and thinking to just push a little bit more as you race towards the end?

May be (and I sincerely hope) that I am wrong. But if Sue stops seeing you as Sexual partner...how will she start seeing you as that again ? (Even after Paul has left). As far as I can think she will then look for other partners...because you will stop cease to be a Sexual Partner to her by the time you are done with Paul.

 

[SoonToBe]

Putting in a last bit of time for work as we're both (all 3?) cutting out early tomorrow afternoon.

Raks, no, your queries aren't intrusive, but I guess the best answer I can give you is that it's something we are both aware of. It's going further than we have before and yeah, I guess there is always that danger. But there's that danger with or without doing this, if she's really curious and wants this, then I think it's better for us to go into it together and to be there. I really have no doubts that we'll always be sexually attracted to each other. In a crazy way, it's going to be actually quite intense to rediscover each other when the time comes.

I'm still on pins and needles about the weekend. I'm nervous and yet I'm wicked horny about it. I just want her to let herself go with him and I just want to it happen.

I know things are going kind of faster than I'd thought. For example, one thing I thought about after leaving the bedroom a few minutes ago is that it's also now been a week or two possibly (I have to figure it out) when I last gave her an orgasm and that surprised me. I can feel her wanting it and that's also why I want to be there this weekend so that I'm a part of it and whatever that brings, it has to be better for us than if she was alone with him. Its late and I shouldn't be over-thinking things so I'm not but I will say that it's so turning me on to think that she's already begun this transition of hers maybe without me even seeing it starting?

I know I sound crazy at midnight but there it is.

 

[peakmb]

Steve, I'm sure you are both going to have a great, if intense time this weekend. Just don't forget in your excitement and frustration that Sue will be the most stressed of all of you. By the end she will be both tired, satiated on one side and a little guilty perhaps on the other. Give her the space to recover.

 

[raksdeer]

That was what I too was hinting at in my earlier comment...

my cock was so hard and she began to moan and said "baby your cock looks so hard and big" and she began to tease me "you'll really want me next week, won't you?" I moaned back in obvious agreement.

STB would be horny...She would be sated..and tired...and then it will be next Tuesday...again

 

[Harry2614]

"That was what I too was hinting at in my earlier comment...
STB would be horny...She would be sated..and tired...and then it will be next Tuesday...again"

Rax, That is literally the 'theme' of all Steve has and will write here. That is what he wants and desires. To be Refused, To be Denied, To be the last to have Sue for his own pleasure. To be a cuckold. That is what he writes about, constantly thinks about, and clearly expresses here. OH YES!, he does finally want the pleasure of sex with her himself. don't be mistaken of that.

It is either Steve's "Kink" -or- Steve's burden. But it is also Sue's frustration, and the reason he has encouraged her to have "boyfriends" for her relief and sexual satisfaction. It is his love for his wife Sue, that causes him to "give" her to other men. Literally, Steve gets 'turned on' by vicariously having sex with her, visually, and/or mentally, through the boyfriends she has chosen.

He can then most effectively make love with her himself. At other times, when they are having sex, including when she is 'between boyfriends', he will mentally replace himself with another man, -or- sometimes even her dildo, who she has named "Bill" after the first extramarital fling she ever had.

Steve has had various ways to express this theme. And Sue has had several 'boyfriends' to provide him 'fodder' for his posting here, but this sums up the emphasis and reason for his writings, that he sometimes calls his "journal," and sometimes his "therapy."

That is as I see it!! and pardon me, Steve, if I have missed the mark.

Cheers, Harry