She Is His

[peakmb]

Steve,
I was just about to post the very same point, but it was made far more eloquently by pmandt above. Desiring Paul, and for a time, only Paul is one thing. Actively saying that all or most of the sex you had together last year was merely an obligation for her is really quite another, and one of the things I mentioned as a slight.

On the issue of the request to clean being apparently denied, I claim confusion from your own writing. You went to some lengths to explain just how you were convinced to ask, which you then did to be told only 'later' by Paul. Your next update then starts with you watching and leaving for a coffee. It is unclear whether this is a continuation of the night or the next morning. So I ask, were you invited to clean Sue up on Saturday night or not? It is clear that after Paul left in the morning, the dynamic of a clean up between just the two of you would be different and I would never have expected that in your present phase.

As to accepting your beta desires or not, I think I have been clear on that. You do clearly currently desire to go deeper in that direction for as long as you can this year. I still do not believe you see this (to this level) as a permanent state, nor do I believe deep down do you desire that to happen. It may even go that way once you get further into sub space and feel its boundaries a bit more, but at the moment you aren't there yet and still seem unsure whether you really want to be going quite so far long term. "It did feel good to not have that (sex) between us RIGHT NOW."

It is worrying to me that Sue does not see (or want to see) the depth of your caveat / doubt as she is busy burning any bridges you might have to return over. Don't misquote me. I have no doubts whatsoever that you want to be exactly where you are today and where you will be tomorrow and next month. I just do not believe at present that you believe you can sustain it indefinitely, and that Sue is rapidly creating a position where there is nowhere to go back too.

 

[digger7275]

Steve,
Have you had, or plan to have soon, your "sit down" discussion with Sue?
The other two gentleman may speak from experience or more authority on your situation than I could.
I'm not as pessimistic but I have no track record on this.
I can only wish you (all three) the best outcome. Whatever that may be.
Digger

 

[azsurfer77]

At first you shared Sue with her many lovers (although you never got to meet Robert). You have even had a few shares with Paul. Sue started denying you, first with condoms and trying to move strictly to Paul last year, but there was a meltdown in the relationship, and Sue backed off, and you enjoyed several months of bare sex with Sue. Sue then started going back to the condoms, which seemed to please you. Sue has now prepared you for total denial, for an indefinite time. Supposedly this should last until Sue feels satisfied with her 'teenage lust' and has devoted all her sexual energy to Paul, while you two hold hands take walks and watch the sunsets.
At least you two share her experiences and seem to communicate very well together.

More telling were Sue's words, as reported by you. Sue would be happy to watch you masturbate, or use a condom, and comment that she was glad your semen wasn't going into her vagina. Only Paul's semen was allowed in her vagina. Sue also started making you use the proper terms for sexual organs. Then Sue started preparing you for total denial of PIV sex. Sue has recently expressed her thoughts about how she felt obligated to have sex with you, every other week last fall, with the implication that she would have rather not. Yet she has sex with Paul with no complaints, every week for hours, twice and three times in a 24 hour period. She has sex with Paul during your ski weekend, Friday night, several times Saturday, and again Sunday. She even spent the week you traveled to the West Coast over a year ago, in Paul's bed, morning and night, from Sunday to Friday. To keep this on the positive side which you seem to be enjoying, Sue has become a master manipulator. She has read enough, chatted enough, and maybe talked out points with Paul, so that she knows just what to say and do to tweak your cuckold angst to the max, and reinforce your desire to act like a beta.

Which brings me to another topic you and Sue have discussed, as well as Sue and Paul, in the recent past. Sue has floated the idea that you are under some 'pressure' at work. Sue and Paul have discussed this, and Sue has repeated what she and Paul feel is that you yearn for beta feelings because you feel job pressures, and just want to relax and lay low so-to-speak. I gather from your thread you are in IT at a large (maybe Fortune 500) company, possibly owned by some Southeast Asian entity.
Do you see yourself as an Alpha at work? Do you manage others, and/or a budget, and that is your source of pressure? Or is it just the type and amount of work/projects with short due dates that cause the pressure? Has this pressure led to any performance problems in bed?

It seems not as you are always commenting about being aroused, erect, and dripping with your thoughts about Sue and Paul. When you did describe you sexual bouts with Sue, you didn't express any issues, could last sufficiently to provide Sue with several orgasms, and you seem to work out so appear to be in good health. Is Sue trying to 'convince' you that the job pressures may be behind your desires to be beta?

 

[Enigma632]

@azsurfer77 It is very common for people (both men & women) who are in charge or who are decision makers at work to want to NOT be in charge and/or NOT take decisions in some or all areas of their life outside of work.

This can be as simple as leaving the decision on what to eat for dinner to their partner

Of course, it's also often applied to their sex lives with a desire to be dominated in the bedroom - here in the UK at one time barely a month went by without some sex scandal about a politician who wanted to be spanked or dressed as a baby etc, etc.

Whatever is behind Steve's desire to want to "explore his beta side" the situation that he's in at the moment does seem to leave him (mostly) quite relaxed

 

[pmandt]

I'm curious as to Sue's definition of "beta" vs Steve's.

It seems to me that Sue could have had what she said she wanted (the teenage thingy) simply by denying Steve and going out on dates with Paul and shacking up at his place. Instead she hass Steve watch and clean up (now with Paul's permission), taunts him, throws the denial in his face by talking about the pussy he can't touch or have anymore. I'd be surprised if she did that in high school. Of course, she is a master manipulator......

 

[SoonToBe]

Not sure to laugh or be annoyed.
I'll take a moment and respond to pmandt and say that if she did what you said - denying me and going out on dates and shacking up at Pauls place then that would be denying me what I am enjoying out of this - or do you not understand that part of all of this? Yes it's a bit denigrating - but at the same time - what we seem to have going is - sorry if this isn't for you - but I am actually quite enjoying this right now. But it seems that this isn't something you consider.
Elsewise - taking what's shared in one conversation and casting it as the overall feelings - as in the case of Sue saying she still felt somewhat obligated - again seems to be looking over what I write with a fine tooth comb as if this is a well edited book. I share that we had fun taking a hike and doing other things and rather than saying "nice - they do share a lot of other stuff together" - instead, nope, you seized on the relatively minor parts of the conversations that were shared. Sure it sounded dramatic as she said it - but clearly you've never talked to Sue who shares my propensity to make everything sound a bit more serious than it is.
But it's not going to matter.... As you are saying - I wonder what Sue's definition of beta is vs. mine - it's the same friggin' thing! She is only doing what I am into experiencing - and yes, perhaps pushing the envelope a bit but it's all in the same vein. It just makes me laugh.

Am I a beta. Well, lets see, for me that means relinquishing the alpha male role with my wife - to put it bluntly. That of course has folded well along with her own desires (or are they one in the same as I have continued to feel all along the way here - that her desires continue to mesh with my own). And yes, that means when she says yes or no to me cleaning her up, seeing her naked or touching her sexually vs. otherwise, these are decisions I am freely and right now, happily relinquishing to her to decide. And yes, I know that for now - that means Paul will be replacing me sexually.

Everyone is seizing on my words ".... I know that FOR NOW...". What more can I say? What more can Sue say? Neither of us know when or if our feelings are going to change direction. Will I reach a point where it's too much. Possibly. Does that mean I"m not beta now? Or does that mean I want to return to alpha then? What about her? She continues to leave the future very vague and she still doesn't talk long-term with Paul. So this is all FOR NOW. To her point - lets play it for real - that means me letting go and truly going into what I call beta with her.

But I'm sure that this post will elicit yet more conspiracy theories and more negative comments about Sue or our relationship - which folks - I'm really not interested in you sharing. As my mom would say - if you aren't going to say something nice, then perhaps don't say it at all. I"m happy to share thoughts and all that - but to be honest, it's getting tiring defending what feels good to me.

 

[dana007]

STB
i very much like reading about your, and sues ride togather.
so keep us posted.
and enjoy the ride and see where. it takes you and sue.
lok fordward to your next post.

 

[pmandt]

Not sure to laugh or be annoyed.
I'll take a moment and respond to pmandt and say that if she did what you said - denying me and going out on dates and shacking up at Pauls place then that would be denying me what I am enjoying out of this - or do you not understand that part of all of this? Yes it's a bit denigrating - but at the same time - what we seem to have going is - sorry if this isn't for you - but I am actually quite enjoying this right now. But it seems that this isn't something you consider.................
.

I seem to have touched a nerve. I'm sorry you're upset. My reasons for writing what I did was because I was concerned for you. To me it
sounded like you were being eased into a permanent situation that you might not otherwise desire and that could be irreversible. You said
yourself that some of the things she's said and done hurt you. I didn't like that.
Now you're saying that you and your wife are on the same page with this.That was not at all clear before. I know that in the last few weeks
you've said you were all in, so to speak. But for a long time before you weren't. You were on the fence for quite a while, and there were false
starts. It certainly didn't sound like you were totally positive about it. It seems to have taken a lot of persuasion to get you to this point. Had
me fooled.

The reason I wondered about your definitions of beta was because I did not know you and your wife were on the same page, and it was not
clear from what you had written. You and Sue seemed to have had some differences (masculinity?) about it, but apparently that doesn't
matter now.

And what you're doing is certainly not for me. I must be alpha I suppose, at least in that respect. I'm trying to understand the appeal of denial,
but it has no appeal to me. I'm getting old, my body is wearing out (one part in particular) and an all-to-frequent activity now is attending
funerals of friends. I am so thankful for every act of sex that I've had, and I'm very appreciative of what I can get now, before it's too late. Sorry if that sounds melodramatic, but it's exactly how I feel.

I'm not a skilled writer and I know sometimes my words come out wrong, and I apologize if any of what I just wrote offends you.

With that, I bid you well. I sincerely hope you're happy with what you get.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
At last, a bit of anger. I'm not happy I upset you if I did but I am happy that it caused you to clarify a few issues that you left hanging in the wind.

I concentrate on 'a few words', particularly quotes of yours from Sue, because that is all I have. I can see that you wrote that entire peace about the walk in the country to show how good you are together and how good you are feeling right now. It was convincing, which meant it was even more disturbing that Sue would attempt to 'sell the bad news with the good' by saying she felt obligated when she had sex last year. You didn't use the word 'somewhat' at the time. It left the impression of cynical manipulation on her part and angst ridden acceptance on yours. It's not the only example of such writing either.

Apart from a wobble in the first two weeks, so far this year the tone from you has been your new found acceptance of being beta. Or your collective version of it. In three whole previous years is has been your ultimate fighting against it. Trying to do what Sue asks, trying to be at peace with long term, enjoying it (or at least going along with it) for a while and the finally reacting against it resulting in Sue going bareback again to bring stability back. Three years versus one month, so don't assume we have just invented a lack of belief in your new found total acceptance of beta.

Finally, I question because I care. Not because I am trying to wound or be hurtful in some way. All any of us have to understand how you, and Sue, are going with all this is your words.

 

[StudCaptM]

Steve
Dont get down by the "haters", I think some here are jealous and envious of you and your life now, we look forward to more updates on the weekend and your journey!

 

[far2easy]

StudCapt right on! Enjoy Stb and keep sharing!

 

[SoonToBe]

I suppose my energized response was the perception that I have of feeling like I need to continue to somehow defend what we are doing and that I feel I need to remind that this is very voluntary on both of our parts. Hearing Sue being described as cold or manipulative are not endearing to me - they are your opinions not necessarily share by me and as such, they sound somewhat derogatory - although I am sure that is not how it was intended.

I actually brought up some of this last night with her. Not directly but as we lay there together in bed and she watched me I asked her if she thought things would change over time? She smiled and said it's always changing. But I think she must have anticipated what I was asking, maybe because of how comfortable things feel right now between us - because she said "nothing is forever dear" and later on she made a point of saying that her sexual desires are always changing. I didn't ask what she meant but in light of what had been posted here, I thought it was relevant now.

pmandt - if you look back as you said, early on I most definitely felt differently. I even think I wrote about it thinking it odd or crazy for someone to willingly do what I have done/given Sue. From an alpha perspective, I surely remember the feeling and the desire back then. I know and still vividly remember the desire to reclaim her sexually - and I will admit I miss it in some ways. But at the same time - I do not. And I will say it again, my god do I love her denying me as she is. Yes, it's only been 5 weeks but I feel amazingly different than in the past about it. Does that mean I'm beta?

From my perspective, it is as I've shared. We are 2 sides of the same coin and I am more convinced than ever of it. It isn't coincidence that she is enjoying denying me more as I've begun to enjoy it more. I don't think so. So - I am thinking more about what the question really is - am I beta? For right now - most definitely. But does it mean I don't ever want to fuck her again - no - that's not something I'm about to say. I'll even share that a small part of me is thinking about if that day will come.

But for right now - for the foreseeable future - the answer is most definitely that I wish to be as beta as I can be. Maybe that's what people here don't understand or can't feel - but I don't feel threatened by this nor do I feel I'll lose Sue over this. How will she be after her teenager-fantasy passes and she's experienced all she wants? I don't think she's sure about that much less really thought about it. And in that sense, that's where I think we both now are understanding that we are here and we should enjoy and experience as much of this as we can.

For example - anal sex. I haven't talked to her about it again nor has she brought it up. It's going to be probably painful for her given Paul's size and shape - but at the same time, I know it's something that she has said she wants to experience now. A year ago it wasn't a thought in her head and a year from now it equally may not be.

Given that - I can honestly say I would love to watch him have her that way.

 

[digger7275]

Here is what I see.

An extra special couple who are in love. Both are intelligent and committed to each other. Open to change.
And Steve is gracious enough to share the experience with us.

I don't think there is anyone on here that doesn't wish them (all 3) well
.
Alpha or Beta? Six months or a year from now? Who the hell knows? As long as Sue, Paul, and Steve are happy with the outcome and the journey getting there.

Btw, Steve, I didn't see you at the Eagles parade. In your defense it was crowded.

Please continue to share.
Digger

 

[SoonToBe]

Change in plans here for the weekend. Our daughter needs to come home this weekend - she'll be home on Saturday morning so Sue told me this morning that she's going to see Paul after work today but will be home late tonight. Needless to say, she's annoyed but, as a mom she wants to be here. I think there's a bit of Valentines turmoil going on or something with her boyfriend (daughter, not Sue). Either way, plans for the weekend are changed. I gave Sue a kiss when she just left for work and told her she should enjoy herself tonight and not worry about me for dinner.

Thanks digger - appreciate your thoughts. And yea to Philly!

 

[Knk069]

i second Digger's comments.
Thanks for your continued sharing of your journey and exploration of your beta side. I for one find it very enlightening. Your journey is one I would like to explore if I could only convince the wife. If she comes around, I would hope she plays it all out like Sue.

Beta or alpha - Who cares. Embrace whatever feels best at the time and ignore ones who try to change it.

Fly Eagles fly!

 

[SoonToBe]

Change of plans here again. My son just called and with our daughter coming home this weekend and with the recent and upcoming weather - I'm going to be talking off later this afternoon - meeting up with him - and the 2 of us are going to ski this weekend. I told Sue she could stay over at Pauls if she wanted but that she would need to be home early enough tomorrow relevent to our daughter's arrival.

 

[SoonToBe]

She just called me and told me to have a good weekend with our son. I asked her when she was leaving work and she said soon - hopefully before 4pm which will be nice for her on a Friday. I asked her when she'd be home and she giggled and said "before xxxx gets home" (our daughter). I told her that if she stayed over that she should be careful to not be enjoying herself too much which made her laugh out loud. She in turn giggled a bit more and told me that I should be quiet if I'm masturbating in bed or the bathroom over the weekend - something to remember if my son is sleeping in the next bed over.

 

[far2easy]

enjoy your weekend Steve. i know it doesn’t seem to some that this can work and work well under the circumstances you describe but it can as long as you both enjoy your relationship. please keep sharing!

 

[peakmb]

Well Steve, it looks to me that fate (and your children) has dealt you a good opportunity this weekend. You get time to get some perspective on how things are going so far, whilst Sue still gets her Paul fix but also comes back to an empty house for a period, which might give her some other perspecive in her 'buzz' time. Either way, I think it will be both helpful for now and for the future as you continue your adventure. Maybe Sunday would be a good time to have your first 'review' session.

 

[digger7275]

Steve,
This "change of plans" is what I was referring to in an earlier post. Life happens.
Do your children know Paul? Have they met? Thinking of integrating Paul as a friend?

If you want bad or negative feelings, take this fact.
I'm jealous and envious of your situation!

Somebody mentioned about going to funerals more often now. Hey, I've been going to them just about every day.
Unlike marriages you only get one.