New Year, New Thread

[SoonToBe]

Squirm - yes, overall things are becoming more at ease with what we are doing. She is reassuring me constantly that my wishes to be the beta for her are okay with her and that it's again something that she says we are both doing that we've both come to this acceptance.

I will say that I do still most definitely want to be the beta sexually for her. It is something I've been thinking about more lately and I think her attitude towards wanting me to be fulfilled in my own wishes and okay in that choice is helping me. I will admit I am scared and hesitant, at the same time I know that I do want this. I am working my way up to being able to tell her this and to tell her more openly what and how I want to feel and I'm actually pretty sure I'll be up for doing that in terms of my own mental fortitude by the time Labor Day comes around.

For many, outside of Squirm and others, this must seem crazy but the more time goes by and the closer Labor Day weekend gets, the more I am feeling arousal and excitement by it and while yes, I am still hesitant and scared as I said, at the same time, I cannot deny that I really do want this for us. I want to feel being a true beta and giving her completely sexually to Paul. Even as I type this my cock is rock hard and I have a wet-spot already growing. Just the thought arouses me intensely. I know it won't be easy at first, but I want to do the best I can with this to give Sue what she wants to experience too. The thought of her only sharing her sexuality with him is something I want, or I will even say, need to feel and experience.

 

[Jaxunman]

Steve, whatever it is you want to experience, call it beta, cuckold, or whatever, you have it all worked out now. The main thing you need to do now is just let it all go and embrace this. Sue has accepted you and your desires without judging you. That is a priceless gift she is giving you. You still have her heart and companionship.

You seem to still be having a bit of trouble letting go. You will have plenty of warning signs still easily seen if things start in an unfavorable direction. Let's be honest, and Sue has been, she has been provided the best sex of her life with her current lover and Robert before him. Yet, her home is still with you, her heart is still with you, her long term future plans are with you. You have not been her "alpha" in a very long time and it has not damaged the grand scheme of things at all. Yes there have been a few rough patches along the way, but they were quickly worked out through communication. Communication has always been strong with you and Sue.

True, there are no guarantees in any of what happens moving forward. There never have been any guarantees. You have both given a wonderful gift to the other. Your description of the type of beta you want to be for her is going to require that you let go. Not let her go, but just let go. Her sexual pleasure will no longer be something you need to be worried about. You will have to trust her to know that she is seeing to her own sexual pleasure. What that is, who that is with, and such won't be a worry for you. She is now responsible for her own sex life.

Life after Paul has only mildly been discussed on this thread, and mainly by others. From my view, I don't see the end of Paul, eventually, as the end of your adventure. I am not so sure you and Sue will ever be able to return to traditional roles after things end with Paul or if either of you would desire to. I am not saying you would not play a bigger role again is Sue's sexual pleasure, undoubtedly without a third player in the mix you would almost have to, I just don't see you ever becoming her main sexual source again. She may choose you for lack of other options or until Paul can be replaced. I think your place in things has been solidified.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
I think you are right to proceed with caution here. Just a few weeks ago Sue was talking about this next stage as being temporary, a final but more extreme throw of her dice before she finally packs off Paul and returns to (maybe a modified) life with you. I know she has also said that she might equally always want a lover, but that was at a time when lover was simply the stud to her hot wife and the two of you still had a normal (ish) sex life. Your life may well proceed as Squirm and others see it, but if you don't have to, then don't proceed in a way that this is inevitable and irrevocable. Sue seems to be the one a bit lost in the head rush of lust at the moment. You seem to be following in the angst lust in its wake. Somehow you need to keep a clear head here as well as enjoying your journey. In just a few weeks time you will have far more time for contemplation I suspect. Make good use of it then and don't commit all before you feel what that life does for you. The reality may well prove somewhat different a few months in. You might need a rationale to take a few steps back.

 

[dutch12]

Somehow it makes me horny, thinking of Steve, only allowed to watch Sue's vagina. No fucking, no touching, no licking, no fingering....ever again.

 

[SoonToBe]

So I only have a little time right now but had to share that last night seemed to take a different turn between us. She came home after seeing Paul and she said that she wanted to see how it would feel to share things a bit more with me. I didn't know what that meant until later on when we were in the bedroom and it was obvious that our Wednesday-time was approaching or upon us that she came over to me and after she asked me to get undressed she told me that she'd had a lot of fun with Paul and wanted to feel as though she could share more with me as long as I was going to understand that she was just sharing, not inviting or expecting anything back in return directly. I told her that I understood that and she said she wanted to be able to tease me but that she wanted to just enjoy how she felt which I told her immediately that I was okay with that and that I'd love to be able to share more.

She surprised me that once I was undressed and my cock was obviously hard that she stood next to the bed and she took her top and slid her jeans off leaving her in just the bra and panty that she'd worn earlier with Paul. I told her as she did that it turned me on to think of her with him and her both getting undressed but - I made her smile when I told her that it turned me on even more to think of her getting dressed afterwards with him.

She lay down with me and encouraged me to start to stroke and I did and as I did she told me to tell her what turned me on right then. I smiled at her and I told her honestly that right then I was most turned on that she was lying next to me and that her vagina was full of his cum (yes, I used the word vagina) - she turned towards me and told me she loved me and loved hearing me say it that way. As I stroked and told her how I was turned on thinking about him in her and him cumming in her she surprised the heck out of me when she said "I want you to do something baby" and when I looked at her I saw that she'd slid off her panties and as I looked at her she took my hand and held my index and middle-fingers together and she whispered "I want you to feel how I feel inside" and she guided my 2 fingers to the opening to her vagina and she pushed them in. I grunted and in a moaning voice told her "my god, it's so hot and wet" and she hissed and told me to "feel it good..... and then take your fingers out". She pulled her legs back and I pushed my fingers all the way in and felt around - her pussy felt so open and hot and wet. She put her hand on mine and signaled to pull them out and as I did she smiled and said "he's deeper in me than that when he cums baby..... it feels so wonderful....".

She guided my 2 wet fingers to my mouth and encouraged me to "taste it baby...". I grunted and was stroking my cock now violently with my other hand as she told me how it felt to feel him fill her vagina "he makes me feel so incredible baby.... sometimes like I can't stop cumming with him....". I think she knew I was close - yes - just a few minutes since we'd started - but nonetheless, I was on the brink and she looked at me and said "I love it when he cums in me when I feel like that baby..... " She said it with this seething kind of sexy voice and with the taste of their mixed juices still on my lips - and hearing her tell me how good it was - I just lay back and let it happen. I felt the urge rising and I stayed on the thoughts she'd shared and added my own till a moment later I felt myself on the brink. I grunted and knew that would call her attention to my hand and sure enough - when she looked at my swollen cock she whispered "cum baby, let me see you....". And it just seemed to be what I wanted knowing she was watching like that - I held off as long as I could till I stroked myself into orgasm.

She didn't cum, I knew she wouldn't, but afterwards she told me that she liked how it felt to know that she'd turned me on and gotten me all aroused and even let me feel her and that she still felt she had left herself enjoying seeing me, but still enjoying how Paul had left her. I told her that was okay with me as it was some of what I was thinking as I masturbated.

We were both quite up and a little giddy afterwards - we both felt really good about how she'd shared herself and she even told me that she thought it was something that she could let me do maybe more often (feeling her pussy) as long as she felt it wasn't going to change how she felt. Now, the next day writing about it - I can almost see how she must have felt in the past when she was possibly concerned that letting me feel her like that might lead to more between us which I can now also understand how she may not have wanted that in the past. A part of me even thinks that had I been more beta in the past, that maybe she wouldn't have felt she wanted this exclusive thing with Paul in the first place?

Anyway - she had pulled her panties back up and was sitting next to me still lying on the bed and she was quite open and explicit about playing with my cum. She told me several times how it turned her on that she could tell how much I needed to cum both by how I was when I orgasmed (she told me that she can tell from how I stroke my cock how horny I am and how much I "need" to cum). She cooed to me about how thick the last few spurts of cum were and how erotic it makes her feel to see and then play with my cum - again - and now without much concern she told me several times how it turned her on that "this stuff isn't in me" and "I love watching you cum".

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve, Thank you for your continued sharing with the group.

 

[SoonToBe]

I think some of what spurred her "surprise feel" she offered me was that when we'd been talking, I've told her now many times and continued to do so to tell her that what turns me on most is the knowledge that Paul is cumming in her and how she feels when he does and how it turns me on that she lets herself go totally with him now as she long did with me. It's actually quite intensely arousing to know she may be responding to him more - as others pointed out - since before Paul when I think she began allowing herself to feel that with Robert. She asked me to try to share how it feels to not cum in her knowing he is and I told her that when I see her much less when I see her sexually - that knowing for the longest time now that only Paul has cum in her - that I told her I can't describe how it turns me on other than to know that I am being denied that pleasure with her. She's told me that she can feel when he starts to ejaculate inside her and how she can feel a sense of warmth and, as she says, a "unique feeling of being 'full' inside" and that she too has now become quite fond of it just being Paul that gets to do that with her. She says she can feel my cock throb inside her but admits now that feeling the warmth and slipperiness is a huge part of what makes her feel feminine and sensual and what causes her to orgasm the most intensely. She asked me pointedly if I am going to be okay when she only feels that with Paul and I told her honestly that I wanted us to try it and to see how it felt.

Over the long weekend she also repeated and expanded on how she wants to feel with him. And she said she hoped it wasn't a surprise but she shared that (and she's said this before) that she would like to "feel guilty.... like I'm cheating on him.... you know, if you and I get together". I told her that I understood and that I from feedback and PM's here and elsewhere, that I should try to embrace what she wants and to see it as something we are doing together but really she is doing it for herself and that if I truly want the beta role, that I should be sure she understands that. I told her at one point what I'd posted here - that I'd hated condoms for the longest time but now I look forward to using them with her - and that I'd hoped that as we moved on with her and Paul, that I would also come to look forward to it and not feel it as a loss. She said that was one of the most beautiful things I'd ever said to her.

 

[raksdeer]

"would like to feel as if she is cheating on him"..and we still see it as a non-intimate affair. May be, I wouldn't understand.

 

[SoonToBe]

Raks - of course it's an intimate affair. He is the one who will be fucking her in the future. For me though, I know where her heart is.

 

[raksdeer]

With respect to the word cheating that she used, a few questions worth pondering:
1. Are trust and cheat opposite of each other?
2. Was she cheating on you till now?
3. If she was, she could cheat on you, but is reluctant to cheat on him?

Devil's advocate as usual. Please ignore my comments and continue

 

[SoonToBe]

Lol - had a few moments before she gets home and saw your questions.
Trust and cheat are related but don't necessarily mean opposites.
No, I believe what I said she wanted was to feel as though she was cheating on him - it's a mental thing.
Your last question actually has some sense to it in the mental-aspect.

I am going to say that I actually get it - what she wants. We've talked in the past and I can say that I do get it. She wants that infatuation, can't wait to get into bed with you feeling while she feels she's still young enough to enjoy it and to be up for it physically. I admit that being quite a few years younger, Paul can still go two and sometimes three times in less than 24 hours whereas I know after I cum once I'm largely done and any second time is far from assured - and yet I do remember how she was when we first started together - she couldn't wait for me to cum in her. We'd meet at lunch sometimes and she'd spend the afternoon with my cum seeping out of her - or we'd have a quickie after work and then go to her parents house for dinner. I can remember whole drive's home from being out at a bar where she had her panties off and would let me finger her the whole time - getting her horny to be fucked when we got home. I know that's what she wants to have with Paul and that she wants the feeling of looking forward to fucking him. And I know that my support and okay-ness is letting her possibly have what she wants in the near future. When I think about it this way, I love the thought of essentially giving her to him and the thought of her eager to spread her legs for him.

When she says she wants to feel as if she's cheating on him if she were to mess around with me - as I said - it is more of the mental state she wants to feel with him where she feels a continual desire for him. I know a lot of women want to have one last shot at feeling like a horny teenager again so how can I possibly deny her. And that she wants to tweak and tease me along the way - when I don't think about the loss and missing the feelings of intimacy with her, I can so get into this and support and encourage and want her to do it.

She'll be home soon, going to sign off now.

 

[peakmb]

Neatly put Steve, I see what you are saying.

I'm struck yet again by your references to the temporary or transitory nature of Sue's desire. While she still sees Paul, while she still can feel this way, until next summer, it won't be forever. Yours and Sue's comments are laced with the underlying feeling that all this will end one day and probably within the year, possibly to be followed by Sue being yet again with a more traditional lover (by your standards). Squirmy and others see your progress more as a transition into a new permanent state, which has huge and lasting implications for how you justify all that is happening to yourself and Sue and of course to your relationship. I understand that you now believe you may not swap back to your previous state and that your attraction to the next few months of activity makes it difficult at present to see its possible desirability but my question is, Do you still see your current vector as permanent or temporary to any extent?

 

[raksdeer]

No, I believe what I said she wanted was to feel as though she was cheating on him - it's a mental thing.
Your last question actually has some sense to it in the mental-aspect.

When she says she wants to feel as if she's cheating on him if she were to mess around with me - as I said - it is more of the mental state she wants to feel with him where she feels a continual desire for him. I know a lot of women want to have one last shot at feeling like a horny teenager again so how can I possibly deny her. And that she wants to tweak and tease me along the way - when I don't think about the loss and missing the feelings of intimacy with her, I can so get into this and support and encourage and want her to do it.

She'll be home soon, going to sign off now.

So you do agree that Cheating is more of a mental thing and not a physical thing. And you have also said that you don't believe that she was cheating on you when she was having Robert or having Paul right now. Does it signifies a higher level of intimacy and connection between Sue and Paul than she is willing to admit to you (may be to herself as well, as it might be frightening...she does admits sometimes that she is scared too). It seems that to you as well...cheating would mean going against commitment - so is she committed to Paul ?

Is the whole thing planned to ease you off into...you know either - a permanent denial (Which you tell that you don't want and which Sue says she is not interested in) or separation (Which you say is not likely) or oblivion (Which you already are in danger of)

 

[far2easy]

Have you talked to her about getting to enjoy more creampies in the future. I could easily give up pussy but enjoying eating a fresh pie is something that I couldnt give up. Sounds sexy and intimate as hell in your last encounter!

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve,
As always it is good to see that you are thinking everything through outside of the bedroom and that you have found that you and Sue each are finding your own enjoyment respectively from the journey together. As we all get older, our bodies do not always perform they way they use to and when this happens it is critical to have that non-sexual intimate connection with our partners/spouse. Woman develop these type of connections long before we men do.

Many men seem to place to much emphasis on intercourse and associated performance otherwise they do not feel they have a connection with there partner/spouse, yes a couple can have amazing intercourse and NEVER have a truly intimate connection beyond that of raw sex. These men tend to be the ones that are getting divorces when the couple enters the Empty-Nester phase of the relationship. Intimate connections which are not centered on intercourse is critical, there are many ways to enjoy each other, many ways to develop and maintain a truly intimate connection without the requirement of having multiple rapid sessions of intercourse. This is something that you have already began to experience and or will experience as the next chapter begins for you both.

As far as will this be temporary, transitional or even permanent; I do not believe that any of us on this forum can predict/project where this journey may take you and Sue although make sure that with ever step/stage that it is something that you BOTH enjoy and that you BOTH desire.

 

[raksdeer]

Squirm...is sex physical expression of love? Is a kiss (on lips, forehead) physical expression of intimacy? Why do people have sex? Just to have fun? or to unite through bodies so that uniting at mental level becomes easier?

People disconnect sex and love and it is impossible to do so. Sue has admitted many times that how can she not feel for Paul. May be because STB is there, Sue has not completely shared herself with Paul. Imagine a scene without STB in picture, and wouldn't Sue have fallen for Paul by now? So, your argument that sex can be completely detached from love is imaginary. As of now what binds Sue to STB is his past and also excitement of what STB is sacrificing for her.

And I also think that you are wrong when you say that the intimacy improves when Sex is taken out of equation. That in my opinion is completely wrong. Sex, too, is a form of intimacy - it's not just individuals rutting in. And, that precisely is the reason that Sue has said that she feels like "Cheating" on Paul. If sex were only physical, she wouldn't have felt that way. After all you work in office for 10-12 hours and remain with your spouse for just 3-4 hours - doesn't mean that you are cheating on him / her.

 

[peakmb]

I don't really believe in black and white. Most of life seems to exist wholly in the grey to me. Almost white in some places, darker in others but hardly ever on the extreme. So Steve and his directions are but another shade, and one he and Sue seem currently comfortable with. In spite of Steve's comments, I do not believe he and Sue are currently in the same place. Steve has drifted to where he is, led largely by him libido whereas Sue seems to have calculated her position far more, skillfully placing her husband exactly where she wants him. In that he is happy with this means she has done it well or been fortunate but it's not the same as a clear, transparent and mutually agreed strategy.

As to compensations, a man who becomes blind would surely talk about an enhanced sense of hearing or smell but only a fool would believe this compensated for the loss of sight. So in a marriage of passion and emotion a loss of sexual connection cannot be fully compensated. I'm sure Sue still can't fully understand Steve here, only be grateful that his stance enables her current desires with Paul.

Finally the issue of words. They mean a great deal here. Both sides can still retreat at present behind the smokescreen of a temporary change in their sexual activity. Even if it becomes more extreme or lasts for some time longer. If however either would admit to wanting this stage to be permanent, that would change things forever. Such things cannot be taken back without loss as Mr Trump is currently discovering no doubt to his future cost. So be careful Steve what you say and agree to, it may haunt you in future.

 

[SoonToBe]

Squirm you seem to understand things quite well from how I am experiencing them and what I'm feeling. After posting for so long here I find I almost need to write now to keep aware of all of my feelings and get feedback from everyone whether positive, negative or cautionary. You were certainly ahead of my own thoughts, but perhaps having read your post gave me quite a moment of grief last night with Sue.

I won't say that sex permeates all of our conversation, but it does seem to at times and most of the day yesterday was no different. I wasn't surprised that she was horny having again not seen Paul in a few days so in many ways it was a repeat of prior weekends where I was to be the beneficiary of her need. Last night in bed she continued to tease me as I did her - we spent quite some time kissing and got naked and enjoyed quite a bit of foreplay. When I touched and then began to finger her pussy she told me how she likes when Paul does it to her and how comfortable she is. She knew that would turn me on to hear her tell me how intimately her lover knows her body. When I licked her pussy and gently sucked at her clit she moaned at how good it felt but then asked me if I could at all taste any of Paul's semen. In that sense, Peak you are quite correct, she does know how to manipulate me quite well.

But what I was going to post about that is most heavily on my mind isn't how turned on I was when I pulled on the condom nor how good it was to feel her as we fucked. And yes, we even were pretty physical at times - with her and I both taking turns on top. But it was definitely missionary position that we both wanted when it was time. She orgasmed easily and often including several that were quite deep and obviously satisfying for her. I knew how wet she was from how she tasted as I was licking her and even with the condom on I could feel the slickness and openness. She teased me as I pushed into her whether she was still as tight as she was and I groaned back that she felt wonderful. I wasn't going to last long and she knew it and sure enough - with just a bit more teasing from her - I succumbed to a massive orgasm as I thrust away into her. She accompanied me as I ground against her with her own release that left her hugging me tightly.

All of that was wonderful, and as we lay together kissing and hugging I will say that I became quite aware that soon she will only have that with Paul and that the moment of feeling my cock slip out of her as we embraced and kissed would no longer be shared. As my cock slipped out of her I also felt the same feelings of unease creep in and, when she felt a change in the passionate moment we were sharing, she asked me what was going on. I told her that I wasn't sure I could do without it - and I didn't say which - and I'm not sure which - the intimate moment of kissing her while sharing the intense feelings together or that I suddenly realized I would only have 4 more times to feel that with her (some of her teasing that set me off was her pointing out the 4 remaining condoms that she'd separated).

We talked and she asked me whether it was the physical or the mental or emotional parts that concerned me and I told her that it was all 3.

 

[peakmb]

I'm so glad that your schedule is staying nicely on target Steve. Still, I can't help seeing a discontinuity between your first sentence and your last. Maybe your next post will tell us how Sue responded to your concerns.

 

[raksdeer]

Don't worry Peak. Sue will hug him back or ask him "isn't this what you wanted? And also "it'll be alright. We will have fun sometimes" and everything would be alright. At the end , you'll hear STB saying that he is aroused that only Peak will get to feel those moments with Sue.

These words of STB just play with readers like me who "falsely" assume that there is something amiss. These words don't carry much weight for STB or Sue. This was just a momentary lapse to reality. Anyway...carry on.