New Year, New Thread
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raksdeer said:
Rak,
At times that in which I put forth in print are not always read by others with an open mind. I also do my best to refrain from being judgmental on the lifestyle choices of anyone as each individual and couple are distinctively different than anyone else. I have yet to see two couple or for that matter two individuals that respond the same way to the same series of lifestyle conditions/situation that they are presented with.
I am not a professional counselor or psychologist although what I am is a person with first hand experiences and a person with observation experience of couples/individuals that I have known for decades which are also in variations of the lifestyle. What I find interesting by your assertion, is that you use physical sexuality in more general terms when you responded to me about a remark I made to Steve about “Intercourse” specifically. I am not and have never advocated someone to be completely denied physical intimacy although you and I do see physical intimacy in very different ways.
To address your very pointed questions, our viewpoints and basis as to our motivation for having intercourse I would say changes over time as we age and mature. The motivation of someone in their late teens, as well as into our 20’s and 30’s tends to be different than those in their 40’s, 50’s and 60’s. So I am not going to get into specifics of motivation and for you to be asking it would led me to believe that you are truly limited in your overall view point of sexuality and overall (sexually and non-sexually) intimacy.
It would seem that You and I would disagree that people of both genders can have a healthy sex life without the complication of emotional attachment and for that matter not having the requirement to be in “Love” to enjoy being sexual with another person. Yes some people do require a reasonable connection to enjoy sexual contact while other people do not require any connection to enjoy sexual contact.
As to the current scenario involving Steve, Sue and Paul respectively; you are correct that Steve has mentioned in prior post that Sue has some feelings for Paul which implies a connection (this is something that many woman require for longer term relationships) and is something that should have been expected considering how long the relationship has gone on. While you are inferring that this connection is “love” as a result of “sexual” contact I would say that you are being a bit short sighted as none of us know what the extent of the overall three-way relationship has been outside of what has been shared by Steve through his assorted multiple post on this forum. As I am sure that you know, women and men will engage in sexual contact with a person for the pure pleasure of sexual contact and in many cases do so with people that they would never fall in love with at the level that would lead to a long term relationship such as marriage. You would suggest that if Steve was not in the picture that Sue would have fallen for Paul by now, maybe, maybe not as it was already conveyed on many of Steve’s post that Sue and Paul click when it comes to sexual in many ways although through what I was read Paul is not the type of man that Sue would find as marriage material.
As far as Sue telling Steve that she would like to have that cheating feeling with Steve as opposed to having that feeling with Paul. That is not uncommon for a woman that is exploring this type of adventures, Sue has stated that she wanted to have the feeling that she belongs to Paul sexually which would imply that any sexual contact with Steve would be as the cheating woman in the scenario that Sue has virtually painted. If this is something that the adults within the relationship desires and are open to exploring together, what is so wrong with the approach? Should we on this forum be judgmental of Steve and Sue or for that matter Paul? Over the last two (2) years, Steve and Sue have taken a path that was much different than the path that they had taken in the past. This is new to them and they are both growing from it, both are getting what they expressed they wanted. Reality may not be quite the same as the fantasy that each of them hold and have shared with each other although it is better to try something and no like it then to never try something and regret it for the rest of your lives. I for one applaud Steve and Sue for having being married for as long as they have been, for trying something new as they enter the empty-nester phase of their relationship while many other marriage break up at this stage.
As you have said, you feel that I am completely wrong that when there is a reduction in sexual intimacy that non-sexual intimacy improves; I will tell you that more marriages would last longer if there was MORE emphasis on non-sexual intimacy. I am not saying that we should remove all sexual intimacy from a relationship as sexual intimacy come in many forms. Some of which Steve has expressed in his thread which has been happening. You seem to believe that only sexual intimacy can be hand through bare penetrative intercourse and that is where you are truly closed minded and very short sighted.
You may think I am wrong although that is the great thing about this, we each have our own view points and the only one that truly counts on this specific thread is Steve and Sue’s.
As not to high-jack Steve's thread, if you would like to continue this debate please feel free to PM me.
raksdeer said:
Rak,
You really should learn to read, those statements are non-judgmental of the lifestyle. You are like the guy that takes one or two words from the bible, from the Quran or from the Constitution and tries to make it mean something different then what the full statement said. The follow up three statements you mentions are the same as the statements were you indicating that my view point was wrong, not a statement in judgment of a lifestyle that you may or may not led for yourself and or with your wife. Than again, I do wonder what lifestyle you do live or if you simply come here to pass judgment on the lifestyle lived for others.
Is English your first or second language? By the way, do you also know what sarcasm means?
Also I am going to say it again; as not to high-jack Steve's thread, if you would like to continue this debate please feel free to PM me.
No Squirm, why should I PM you. And thanks for being so non-judgemental.
And again you are being non-judgemental...when you say:
Don't loose yourself to ,blind anger Squirm. Don't Squirm. And if you don't want me to post further rebuttal of your statements here on STB's thread, you PM me with your views and then let me decide if I want to respond to you over there.
SquirmingSub said:
And again you are being non-judgemental...when you say:
SquirmingSub said:
Don't loose yourself to ,blind anger Squirm. Don't Squirm. And if you don't want me to post further rebuttal of your statements here on STB's thread, you PM me with your views and then let me decide if I want to respond to you over there.
Raks - I've already said that I don't mind and sometimes enjoy your posts - but I've also said that you repeating things over and over and as Squirm pointed out, picking out selected phrases and quotes without the rest of the context does get old.
I post here literally for my own sanity - not sure where else I could get this stuff off my mind as I suspect therapists and other people like that would not be receptive to what seems to turn us on. But if the daily trials and tribulations of what I'm/we're experiencing aren't what people want to read, I think I'm at the point now with sufficient "friends" online that via PM's or Emails, I suppose I could dial-back the level of info I post here.
I post here literally for my own sanity - not sure where else I could get this stuff off my mind as I suspect therapists and other people like that would not be receptive to what seems to turn us on. But if the daily trials and tribulations of what I'm/we're experiencing aren't what people want to read, I think I'm at the point now with sufficient "friends" online that via PM's or Emails, I suppose I could dial-back the level of info I post here.
Steve.
There are so many people that would be disappointed in you curtailing your posts. You have entertained, enlightened and educated many of us with the years of posts. Many of us sit silent yet look forward to following your and Sue's journey.
Some on here, and I won't name names, seem to think that by the small snapshots you provide of your life gives them enough formation to know your and Sue's life, feelings, and thought processes, and know you better than you know yourself. They act like a politician and spin small snippets to "prove" they are right about everything. You cannot help or stop others from showing their ignorance but if you stop posting they will say it's because they were right. I think there are many, like me, who just skip their postings. Responding to them gives them the attention and validation they they thrive on.
Please keep posting your and Sue's beautifully exciting journey and enjoy your life as you have been.
There are so many people that would be disappointed in you curtailing your posts. You have entertained, enlightened and educated many of us with the years of posts. Many of us sit silent yet look forward to following your and Sue's journey.
Some on here, and I won't name names, seem to think that by the small snapshots you provide of your life gives them enough formation to know your and Sue's life, feelings, and thought processes, and know you better than you know yourself. They act like a politician and spin small snippets to "prove" they are right about everything. You cannot help or stop others from showing their ignorance but if you stop posting they will say it's because they were right. I think there are many, like me, who just skip their postings. Responding to them gives them the attention and validation they they thrive on.
Please keep posting your and Sue's beautifully exciting journey and enjoy your life as you have been.
vickielynn38 said:
Vickie - you speak for many of us who have been following Sue and Steve's wonderful adventure. Likewise I find it irritating that so many of the responders to Steve's postings think themselves as being therapists or experts in the field of human relationships to be providing advice when in all probability it is their own lives that are lacking interest or substance. I earnestly hope that their meddling and habit of commenting on just narrow aspects of Steve's narrative will not be the cause of him withdrawing from relating this fascinating tale.
Curt, Vickie and others, thank you.
I felt like a failure in a way when I felt the same apprehensions and concerns again. We talked a bit on Saturday night and we talked actually for a long time yesterday. She said she wanted to hear me out and wanted to genuinely try to understand. She asked me if it wasn't the same masturbating as it was when we have intercourse and my answer was "it depends". I told her that a lot of the time on Wednesday nights (or at other times) when I'm really worked up and really horny, that yes, it's pretty close - that jerking off in those situations is very satisfying. But I also told her that, at least for me, when a guys is fucking a woman that it's more than just his cock that's being aroused. I told her that in some ways, if she sucks my cock, even if it's just at the end, that it makes it a lot better at times because I can focus and enjoy just orgasming and cumming but when I have to use my hand, I have to keep the pace and stay focused. I also told her honestly that the inside of her pussy feels far better than anything else and yes that cumming like that is more pleasurable for sure. She said she had known some but not all of that and she seemed to be genuinely interested in that it feels so much better at times inside her. At first she did resort back to the prior admonitions of me just needing to fuck her and making little of that, but as we talked I think she could understand especially when I described the physical act of fucking her as being something our bodies did more automatically and asked her to compare how she feels with a dildo vs. Paul or I in her and that did seem to resonate with her. She really wanted to know more and she also started to ask me how I was going to feel and she seemed to be genuinely concerned as opposed to her taking her normal response.
As we talked I admitted to her that I thought that some of this would become easier once we get past Labor-Day weekend and I told her that I thought once we weren't having sex very often, that I probably wouldn't feel this way as much. Said she could understand my reluctance and asked me why I still wanted to go through with it. Of course I told her that I wanted her to have the experience she wanted, but I then told her what I guess is as honest as I could get - I told her that I wanted to fulfill my beta desires and let myself fully feel what I seem to be most scared and concerned about, giving her to him.
For Peak and others, her immediate response was "it's not going to be forever baby" so to address those thoughts and concerns, she immediately said that this was something she felt was a phase she was going through and she said that maybe it was her form of not so much a mid-life crisis, but a crisis of sorts and she admitted that she wanted the intensity of it to leave her sexually fulfilled (she told me it was not easy for her to tell me that) but that it wasn't going to be something she was going to want for the longer term and in her words she ".... couldn't think of it that way....". She asked me if that made it any better and I said it did and I said that us talking along the way and I clearly said "and our few times together" should make it to be something that I think we will be able to work through.
I will say that she said something which took me a little by surprise. She said "that's something we should talk about too" and I asked her right away what she meant by that. She looked at me and said that she would surely have sex with me if that's what I needed and she added "from what you told me, I can see that you probably will", but she added that she hoped it would be something we could talk about. I asked her point blank if she was suggesting that at some point it becomes more than every 2 months when we'll have sex and she just said she didn't know and she said "to be honest, I would like to not have to think about it that way and when and if it happens, then it happens". I told her I didn't understand and she said that she'd rather not have to think, based on the calendar, that she has to have sex with me on a certain date or within a certain time frame and she felt that it wasn't something she wanted to focus on. She said it didn't mean anything different as that's how she's been feeling, that she knows that just like me, that "I'm going to want you again before this is over" but that she didn't want it to be something she had to think about. I asked her if we were going to talk about it and she said yes, but that will be different because we're not going to be in bed when we have those talks about how things are going. She asked me if I was upset by what she'd said and I had to say no, that I guessed I hadn't necessarily wanted to see if from how she was saying it. I know some here are going to pick on this as more deception from her or more of her manipulating me. Maybe you're right, not sure. The thing I did know is that it was my opening about my beta desires that led her to here and in the end, she had still agreed that we're going to have our time together. I think what has me concerned and what she surely cannot answer now is whether she will want me (at all?) as much as I will want her and how it's going to feel if she's doing it "for me" instead of "with me" if she and I have sex.
We talked about more than just what's here - but for me - that is what I felt most related to how I am feeling.
She asked me again what I was feeling and thinking and with what we'd talked about so far, the talk immediately moved to her wanting to understand how I felt mentally and not just physically and she giggled when I spoke about "understanding 'blue-balls'" and how she said she did but now understood a bit more about how it could feel different. And in going the opposite way with surprise - she looked at me and said "it must be more like how you've said you feel using condoms". And I have to say that it's no longer something that we even talk about in the sense of not using them, indeed when we'd talked about us getting together physically, one of the things she casually said to reinforce that we are going to still have sex at times was her saying I should keep the condoms handy. I can't explain how I felt to hear her say that other than to feel that she truly understands, it almost brought a tear to my eye. I was quiet and she said "I know that still turns you on" and as we talked she asked me if it made me feel good to know what we were doing that way and I told her honestly that it sounded crazy but not cumming in her now for so long (with few exceptions) seemed to have really given me the sense of beta-fulfillment that I had been looking for. Before she could say much I told her that I never would have thought it but that now after so long, I simply told her it was true, that I was far more turned on by not cumming in her. She giggled and in a moment of I-told-you-so she said to me "so your brother-in-law isn't crazy" and I told her maybe not (but didn't share the second part of the thought of "not if he's thinking of some other guy filling her!"). She asked me if I was going to be okay "using up the last 4 condoms" with her and I told her that while I did feel some concerns, that I still wanted to do it and let her have the experience she seemed to "need" to have. She was almost apologetic about it until I told her more of what I remembered about how she was sexually when we were younger. She said she felt almost embarrassed at hearing me remind her how she used to love sex all the time and yes, even she had to admit that back then just as now, she came out and said it that "I guess I have always like that" (having guys cum in her). But I reminded her that it was her that wanted it back then just as I see her wanting this to happen now.
I felt like a failure in a way when I felt the same apprehensions and concerns again. We talked a bit on Saturday night and we talked actually for a long time yesterday. She said she wanted to hear me out and wanted to genuinely try to understand. She asked me if it wasn't the same masturbating as it was when we have intercourse and my answer was "it depends". I told her that a lot of the time on Wednesday nights (or at other times) when I'm really worked up and really horny, that yes, it's pretty close - that jerking off in those situations is very satisfying. But I also told her that, at least for me, when a guys is fucking a woman that it's more than just his cock that's being aroused. I told her that in some ways, if she sucks my cock, even if it's just at the end, that it makes it a lot better at times because I can focus and enjoy just orgasming and cumming but when I have to use my hand, I have to keep the pace and stay focused. I also told her honestly that the inside of her pussy feels far better than anything else and yes that cumming like that is more pleasurable for sure. She said she had known some but not all of that and she seemed to be genuinely interested in that it feels so much better at times inside her. At first she did resort back to the prior admonitions of me just needing to fuck her and making little of that, but as we talked I think she could understand especially when I described the physical act of fucking her as being something our bodies did more automatically and asked her to compare how she feels with a dildo vs. Paul or I in her and that did seem to resonate with her. She really wanted to know more and she also started to ask me how I was going to feel and she seemed to be genuinely concerned as opposed to her taking her normal response.
As we talked I admitted to her that I thought that some of this would become easier once we get past Labor-Day weekend and I told her that I thought once we weren't having sex very often, that I probably wouldn't feel this way as much. Said she could understand my reluctance and asked me why I still wanted to go through with it. Of course I told her that I wanted her to have the experience she wanted, but I then told her what I guess is as honest as I could get - I told her that I wanted to fulfill my beta desires and let myself fully feel what I seem to be most scared and concerned about, giving her to him.
For Peak and others, her immediate response was "it's not going to be forever baby" so to address those thoughts and concerns, she immediately said that this was something she felt was a phase she was going through and she said that maybe it was her form of not so much a mid-life crisis, but a crisis of sorts and she admitted that she wanted the intensity of it to leave her sexually fulfilled (she told me it was not easy for her to tell me that) but that it wasn't going to be something she was going to want for the longer term and in her words she ".... couldn't think of it that way....". She asked me if that made it any better and I said it did and I said that us talking along the way and I clearly said "and our few times together" should make it to be something that I think we will be able to work through.
I will say that she said something which took me a little by surprise. She said "that's something we should talk about too" and I asked her right away what she meant by that. She looked at me and said that she would surely have sex with me if that's what I needed and she added "from what you told me, I can see that you probably will", but she added that she hoped it would be something we could talk about. I asked her point blank if she was suggesting that at some point it becomes more than every 2 months when we'll have sex and she just said she didn't know and she said "to be honest, I would like to not have to think about it that way and when and if it happens, then it happens". I told her I didn't understand and she said that she'd rather not have to think, based on the calendar, that she has to have sex with me on a certain date or within a certain time frame and she felt that it wasn't something she wanted to focus on. She said it didn't mean anything different as that's how she's been feeling, that she knows that just like me, that "I'm going to want you again before this is over" but that she didn't want it to be something she had to think about. I asked her if we were going to talk about it and she said yes, but that will be different because we're not going to be in bed when we have those talks about how things are going. She asked me if I was upset by what she'd said and I had to say no, that I guessed I hadn't necessarily wanted to see if from how she was saying it. I know some here are going to pick on this as more deception from her or more of her manipulating me. Maybe you're right, not sure. The thing I did know is that it was my opening about my beta desires that led her to here and in the end, she had still agreed that we're going to have our time together. I think what has me concerned and what she surely cannot answer now is whether she will want me (at all?) as much as I will want her and how it's going to feel if she's doing it "for me" instead of "with me" if she and I have sex.
We talked about more than just what's here - but for me - that is what I felt most related to how I am feeling.
She asked me again what I was feeling and thinking and with what we'd talked about so far, the talk immediately moved to her wanting to understand how I felt mentally and not just physically and she giggled when I spoke about "understanding 'blue-balls'" and how she said she did but now understood a bit more about how it could feel different. And in going the opposite way with surprise - she looked at me and said "it must be more like how you've said you feel using condoms". And I have to say that it's no longer something that we even talk about in the sense of not using them, indeed when we'd talked about us getting together physically, one of the things she casually said to reinforce that we are going to still have sex at times was her saying I should keep the condoms handy. I can't explain how I felt to hear her say that other than to feel that she truly understands, it almost brought a tear to my eye. I was quiet and she said "I know that still turns you on" and as we talked she asked me if it made me feel good to know what we were doing that way and I told her honestly that it sounded crazy but not cumming in her now for so long (with few exceptions) seemed to have really given me the sense of beta-fulfillment that I had been looking for. Before she could say much I told her that I never would have thought it but that now after so long, I simply told her it was true, that I was far more turned on by not cumming in her. She giggled and in a moment of I-told-you-so she said to me "so your brother-in-law isn't crazy" and I told her maybe not (but didn't share the second part of the thought of "not if he's thinking of some other guy filling her!"). She asked me if I was going to be okay "using up the last 4 condoms" with her and I told her that while I did feel some concerns, that I still wanted to do it and let her have the experience she seemed to "need" to have. She was almost apologetic about it until I told her more of what I remembered about how she was sexually when we were younger. She said she felt almost embarrassed at hearing me remind her how she used to love sex all the time and yes, even she had to admit that back then just as now, she came out and said it that "I guess I have always like that" (having guys cum in her). But I reminded her that it was her that wanted it back then just as I see her wanting this to happen now.
Steve - As always another great post. You open communication with Sue has continued to reach new levels. The two of you will find that special place were you both will find mutual enjoyment on your journey down this path together. Only time will truly tell when it comes to what your respective comfort levels become within the lifestyle as the dynamic continues to evolve. Looking forward to your continued postings.
Steve,
Firstly, I think I must comment about your comment in the middle of the somewhat pointless exchange between Raks and Squirmy. Those two are never going to agree in philosophy and picking elements from your posts will prove anything. Even you must admit to constantly contradicting yourself in detail terms about what you can stand or not, or what you expect and not. Your latest post above being just the latest example. I know that Raks is most fired up by Squirmy's constant references to the inevitability of your direction and how you will be happy when you get there. The latest just above. It's rubbish of course, like all evangelical teachings about the promised land. No one can know what lies ahead, including you so how can any of us. Therein lies my point. By now there are many people following your threads, some have been here for years, some are more recent, some have posted hundreds of times, some hardly any. I would submit a few comments.
1. If no one commented anything, the thread would not be read by as many and would certainly not hold its interest for you. It is not just the writing of it that is cathartic for you, its the discourse as well. By its nature some discourse will be supportive, some not, some useful at times, but not at all times. You can't turn on only what you want right at that moment and private mail doesn't work. I would not send anything out to you as a PM because I would regard any response I got back as private too and wouldn't be able to use it any public message sent, even if it was to provide general clarity for all.
2. Over the years some of the comments have been prescient, some have been wildly inaccurate, rarely they have been downright offensive. In almost all cases they have reflected genuine opinion which has been roused by your writing (well done) and has been directed by the responders concerns for your welfare or their wonder at the turns your (mainly) sex life has taken.
3. There may come a day when Sue will tire of her current activities and settle down with one man who fulfils all her needs going forwards and forever as she sees it. That man will probably be you but not certainly otherwise your threads would not be as interesting. Equally there may come a day when the shear effort of posting several times a week becomes too much and you tire of it all, or the results no longer give you what you want. At some point is it probably inevitable. However, almost all your activity here (and elsewhere) has been over public forums and they are what they are, the returns have always been thus and are now no better or worse that (say) four years ago. If you want to stop, then do so, but don't blame us, collectively or individually. On here you largely made us what we are.
Firstly, I think I must comment about your comment in the middle of the somewhat pointless exchange between Raks and Squirmy. Those two are never going to agree in philosophy and picking elements from your posts will prove anything. Even you must admit to constantly contradicting yourself in detail terms about what you can stand or not, or what you expect and not. Your latest post above being just the latest example. I know that Raks is most fired up by Squirmy's constant references to the inevitability of your direction and how you will be happy when you get there. The latest just above. It's rubbish of course, like all evangelical teachings about the promised land. No one can know what lies ahead, including you so how can any of us. Therein lies my point. By now there are many people following your threads, some have been here for years, some are more recent, some have posted hundreds of times, some hardly any. I would submit a few comments.
1. If no one commented anything, the thread would not be read by as many and would certainly not hold its interest for you. It is not just the writing of it that is cathartic for you, its the discourse as well. By its nature some discourse will be supportive, some not, some useful at times, but not at all times. You can't turn on only what you want right at that moment and private mail doesn't work. I would not send anything out to you as a PM because I would regard any response I got back as private too and wouldn't be able to use it any public message sent, even if it was to provide general clarity for all.
2. Over the years some of the comments have been prescient, some have been wildly inaccurate, rarely they have been downright offensive. In almost all cases they have reflected genuine opinion which has been roused by your writing (well done) and has been directed by the responders concerns for your welfare or their wonder at the turns your (mainly) sex life has taken.
3. There may come a day when Sue will tire of her current activities and settle down with one man who fulfils all her needs going forwards and forever as she sees it. That man will probably be you but not certainly otherwise your threads would not be as interesting. Equally there may come a day when the shear effort of posting several times a week becomes too much and you tire of it all, or the results no longer give you what you want. At some point is it probably inevitable. However, almost all your activity here (and elsewhere) has been over public forums and they are what they are, the returns have always been thus and are now no better or worse that (say) four years ago. If you want to stop, then do so, but don't blame us, collectively or individually. On here you largely made us what we are.
I do enjoy posting here and hope to continue to do so for as long as I feel it helps me and as long as I know that others are interested as I know that we are exploring things that others may not have the same courage to. After this long, I almost feel in some ways that I have to post here or I'm not sure where or how else to let out what is in my head - even to the sometimes negative or unsupportive responses.
What I will share is that we have continued to talk and things have become a bit clearer between us. One thing I did say was that I did not think I was going to be ready for Paul to be spending 2 nights in a row here just yet. It was her intention that this be during the week as weekends do still somewhat need to be reserved for other things where just one night and not 2 nights would be better. I told her that we needed to work up to that desire of hers and that especially with the whole morning-time getting ready to go to work, I told her that we needed to ease into that and I suggested that we start with just 1 night during the week whenever that begins. She was very understanding but at the same time also said "so I'll just spend the 2 nights at his place then". I both was and wasn't surprised by that response. And as we talked she asked/reminded me of what I found so arousing when they have spent the night before - and all of the same things came up - and she looked at me and said "I enjoy those things honey". It was a little sobering but at the same time, even hearing her say that turned me on. She looked at me and said that was what she wanted to feel. I told her that I was a little concerned that this, to me, was more than just sex but was also bordering on more intimate and emotional stuff that I didn't think she was hoping for.
She was very open about her answer to me and said that if she wanted Paul so much that she would surely have figured out how to see him more or be with him more. I asked her what does he think and she told me that other than my fictitious ED issues, that she's been telling Paul more and more over the past few weeks since she's felt my acceptance. She said she's told him that I"m not upset by the ED issue and that she's sort of told him that "it sort of works for his fantasies too" and she says that she's told Paul that she thinks she's having a midlife crisis and that "you are the lucky one" that she's picked! I asked her more about what she's said and she's told him that in talking with me about Paul and my supposed ED issue, that she's shared that we (she and I) have decided that she can use this opportunity and coincidence to let her "live out her fantasy of having a younger stud lover who she can go crazy with. She said he laughed at her calling him a younger-stud. I asked her what he said about me in all of this and I said that I wasn't sure how I was going to feel when I saw him next. She said that he was actually very okay with evertyhing and he said something about him being a little self-conscious if he had an ED issue and that he thinks its great that I am so willing to let her have fun. So I asked her again about what it all means to her (and him) and whether it's more than just them having sex.
She was quiet for a moment and then said that she didn't feel she was in love with Paul nor did she feel like she was falling-in-love with him and she proceeded to tell me how she feels about him vs. me. She admitted to being infatuated with the idea of turning up the sexual intensity between them and she looked at me and said pretty clearly that in the midst of passionate sex with him, that she admits it's a very intimate moment between them when "I really am his..... at least for a little while". She looked at me and asked me if I was okay with that. Before I could answer she told me that I've watched and been there many times when they've been having sex "you've been there baby" and she asked me how I felt. I told her what I'd shared here many times, that it makes me ache in one way but that seeing them together is very beautiful. She asked me how I felt seeing her "take him in me" and I told her that it was one of the most intense moments and one that made me feel amazingly turned on. She smiled and then asked how I'd felt the last time Paul had spent the night. I told her that she knew what sorts of things had gotten to me and turned me on after which she looked at me and said "it's no different baby". It did make me think for a moment as she said that and then - to be honest - I looked at her and just said "ok". I realized in that instant that if either of them wanted this to be more than what it is - that they've already had plenty of opportunities to do so. We talked more but to be honest, most of it was a repeat of what we'd already shared.
So, least night, some of this came back up. Our talk from earlier that I shared above was still in my mind last night when Sue came out of the bathroom in her night-shirt and asked if I was "ready to have some fun". I almost feel like Pavlov's dog in how my cock starts to get hard on Wednesday nights. Last night when we lay down in bed and turned the volume down on the TV she looked at me and said that she "enjoys sharing this" with me a lot and how she said it makes her feel very close to me and she was the one who said it was very intimate. I told her that I hoped we were still going to do this after Labor Day and she immediately said "me too baby!" and she proceeded to tell me how she still wanted this to be good for me and she smiled and giggled and said that she hoped it was something we were going to continue to do for the future. She teased me that she hoped I was ready to "give up fucking me" and it surprised me at how forward it was of her to just say that. I grunted and I told her that I wasn't sure I was ever going to be ready but I moaned and told her that I wanted it to happen. She smiled and moved closer to me and she started to say things to me about how she's going to feel "when it's just Paul I get to feel". I groaned and told her that as much as it pained me to think about it, I looked up at her and said "but I want you to do it baby". She cooed back to me that she loved hearing that from me and again, she promised that it was going to be something that would be good for both of us.
She no longer really needs to prod me or to ask me to start masturbating for her. I like saying that I am doing it for her too - I mean it's obviously for me too - but I like the idea and how it feels to think that I am doing it for her and knowing she loves to watch makes it even easier. She complimented me in that I'd done quite a bit of manscaping - she'd suggested it a while back and I have to say that I hoped she'd have noticed as I thought I'd done a pretty good job of it. As I stroked my cock she cooed that without all those pubes that she could really see more of my cock and she said again how it turned her on to see my big hard cock and that she knew she wasn't going to be fucking it soon. I looked at her with eyes wide open at what she said and she looked at me and said "what? you know it turns me on that you aren't going to be in me soon!" and then she added "besides, I love seeing how big you look while you let me watch you". My cock was hard already and she giggled and said "besides, I love watching you cum baby and seeing your big hard cock too".
As I started to stroke away she leaned closer and started to coo in my hear for me to tell her what turns me on to think about regarding the future. With how frank and open our recent talk and what she'd just said to me, again it was one of those moments when feeling her hand on my shoulder and hearing her softly moan as I stroked myself, as she encouraged me to tell her what turned me on, I found myself sharing my thoughts with her. I told her how I liked hearing her cry out in pleasure and how I liked knowing how she felt. She moaned softly and I told her that it turned me on to think about what he was doing to or with her and how he was likely fucking her as I heard her. I stroked my cock and she softly asked me to "tell me more". I told her that it really turned me on that she'd be in our bed with him and that she'd likely fall asleep naked with him and I actually told her "and with his cum still in you". I have to say - it felt good to say it - even now I can feel this kind of feeling of relief having told her things more explicitly. I moaned as I talked and I know I told her how it turned me on that she'd sleep with him and how she'd feel warm all over next to him and how he might feel her hard nipples on his back if she rolled towards him. She moaned right along with me.
I felt like it was sort of a dream in a way - she was just moaning gently in approval of what I was saying such that I think I even closed my eyes and sort of "was there in person" in my head. She teased me and said "sometimes he wakes me up in the middle of the night...." which made me moan in reply! She asked me if I "did this" (meaning masturbating) when I heard them and I told her yes and that it was something I found myself enjoying sometimes even more just hearing her than seeing her. She giggled and told me I had a good imagination. But it was when I told her that "it really turns me on and drives me crazy to think of you waking up with him in the morning....". She moaned at that but then cooed "mmm, yeah, it's something I want to do more of...." and I know I pretty much just grunted my reply to that. I am surely skipping a lot that would take me more time to type than it'd be worth sharing - but our little teasing banter went back and forth for a while as I got closer and closer to cumming. I finally was right on the edge when I told her that "... I am just so horny at thinking of you with him in our bathroom getting ready in the morning....". She knew, could tell from how my voice sounded, that I was saying something that was close to my heart. I told her that I could "see" her in the shower with him and that really turned me on and she giggled back and asked me if I liked "him drying me off?". I moaned and a moment later - with thoughts in my head that I did not share at the moment of her sitting on the toilet while he was at the mirror shaving - I moaned that I was close and she slid over closer and she told me she loved to watch me and then said "come on baby, let me see all that cum". As I said, Pavlov's dog or not, at that moment, the feel of her hand gently touching my shoulder as she moaned with an incredibly sexy sound, was enough to push me over.
What I will share is that we have continued to talk and things have become a bit clearer between us. One thing I did say was that I did not think I was going to be ready for Paul to be spending 2 nights in a row here just yet. It was her intention that this be during the week as weekends do still somewhat need to be reserved for other things where just one night and not 2 nights would be better. I told her that we needed to work up to that desire of hers and that especially with the whole morning-time getting ready to go to work, I told her that we needed to ease into that and I suggested that we start with just 1 night during the week whenever that begins. She was very understanding but at the same time also said "so I'll just spend the 2 nights at his place then". I both was and wasn't surprised by that response. And as we talked she asked/reminded me of what I found so arousing when they have spent the night before - and all of the same things came up - and she looked at me and said "I enjoy those things honey". It was a little sobering but at the same time, even hearing her say that turned me on. She looked at me and said that was what she wanted to feel. I told her that I was a little concerned that this, to me, was more than just sex but was also bordering on more intimate and emotional stuff that I didn't think she was hoping for.
She was very open about her answer to me and said that if she wanted Paul so much that she would surely have figured out how to see him more or be with him more. I asked her what does he think and she told me that other than my fictitious ED issues, that she's been telling Paul more and more over the past few weeks since she's felt my acceptance. She said she's told him that I"m not upset by the ED issue and that she's sort of told him that "it sort of works for his fantasies too" and she says that she's told Paul that she thinks she's having a midlife crisis and that "you are the lucky one" that she's picked! I asked her more about what she's said and she's told him that in talking with me about Paul and my supposed ED issue, that she's shared that we (she and I) have decided that she can use this opportunity and coincidence to let her "live out her fantasy of having a younger stud lover who she can go crazy with. She said he laughed at her calling him a younger-stud. I asked her what he said about me in all of this and I said that I wasn't sure how I was going to feel when I saw him next. She said that he was actually very okay with evertyhing and he said something about him being a little self-conscious if he had an ED issue and that he thinks its great that I am so willing to let her have fun. So I asked her again about what it all means to her (and him) and whether it's more than just them having sex.
She was quiet for a moment and then said that she didn't feel she was in love with Paul nor did she feel like she was falling-in-love with him and she proceeded to tell me how she feels about him vs. me. She admitted to being infatuated with the idea of turning up the sexual intensity between them and she looked at me and said pretty clearly that in the midst of passionate sex with him, that she admits it's a very intimate moment between them when "I really am his..... at least for a little while". She looked at me and asked me if I was okay with that. Before I could answer she told me that I've watched and been there many times when they've been having sex "you've been there baby" and she asked me how I felt. I told her what I'd shared here many times, that it makes me ache in one way but that seeing them together is very beautiful. She asked me how I felt seeing her "take him in me" and I told her that it was one of the most intense moments and one that made me feel amazingly turned on. She smiled and then asked how I'd felt the last time Paul had spent the night. I told her that she knew what sorts of things had gotten to me and turned me on after which she looked at me and said "it's no different baby". It did make me think for a moment as she said that and then - to be honest - I looked at her and just said "ok". I realized in that instant that if either of them wanted this to be more than what it is - that they've already had plenty of opportunities to do so. We talked more but to be honest, most of it was a repeat of what we'd already shared.
So, least night, some of this came back up. Our talk from earlier that I shared above was still in my mind last night when Sue came out of the bathroom in her night-shirt and asked if I was "ready to have some fun". I almost feel like Pavlov's dog in how my cock starts to get hard on Wednesday nights. Last night when we lay down in bed and turned the volume down on the TV she looked at me and said that she "enjoys sharing this" with me a lot and how she said it makes her feel very close to me and she was the one who said it was very intimate. I told her that I hoped we were still going to do this after Labor Day and she immediately said "me too baby!" and she proceeded to tell me how she still wanted this to be good for me and she smiled and giggled and said that she hoped it was something we were going to continue to do for the future. She teased me that she hoped I was ready to "give up fucking me" and it surprised me at how forward it was of her to just say that. I grunted and I told her that I wasn't sure I was ever going to be ready but I moaned and told her that I wanted it to happen. She smiled and moved closer to me and she started to say things to me about how she's going to feel "when it's just Paul I get to feel". I groaned and told her that as much as it pained me to think about it, I looked up at her and said "but I want you to do it baby". She cooed back to me that she loved hearing that from me and again, she promised that it was going to be something that would be good for both of us.
She no longer really needs to prod me or to ask me to start masturbating for her. I like saying that I am doing it for her too - I mean it's obviously for me too - but I like the idea and how it feels to think that I am doing it for her and knowing she loves to watch makes it even easier. She complimented me in that I'd done quite a bit of manscaping - she'd suggested it a while back and I have to say that I hoped she'd have noticed as I thought I'd done a pretty good job of it. As I stroked my cock she cooed that without all those pubes that she could really see more of my cock and she said again how it turned her on to see my big hard cock and that she knew she wasn't going to be fucking it soon. I looked at her with eyes wide open at what she said and she looked at me and said "what? you know it turns me on that you aren't going to be in me soon!" and then she added "besides, I love seeing how big you look while you let me watch you". My cock was hard already and she giggled and said "besides, I love watching you cum baby and seeing your big hard cock too".
As I started to stroke away she leaned closer and started to coo in my hear for me to tell her what turns me on to think about regarding the future. With how frank and open our recent talk and what she'd just said to me, again it was one of those moments when feeling her hand on my shoulder and hearing her softly moan as I stroked myself, as she encouraged me to tell her what turned me on, I found myself sharing my thoughts with her. I told her how I liked hearing her cry out in pleasure and how I liked knowing how she felt. She moaned softly and I told her that it turned me on to think about what he was doing to or with her and how he was likely fucking her as I heard her. I stroked my cock and she softly asked me to "tell me more". I told her that it really turned me on that she'd be in our bed with him and that she'd likely fall asleep naked with him and I actually told her "and with his cum still in you". I have to say - it felt good to say it - even now I can feel this kind of feeling of relief having told her things more explicitly. I moaned as I talked and I know I told her how it turned me on that she'd sleep with him and how she'd feel warm all over next to him and how he might feel her hard nipples on his back if she rolled towards him. She moaned right along with me.
I felt like it was sort of a dream in a way - she was just moaning gently in approval of what I was saying such that I think I even closed my eyes and sort of "was there in person" in my head. She teased me and said "sometimes he wakes me up in the middle of the night...." which made me moan in reply! She asked me if I "did this" (meaning masturbating) when I heard them and I told her yes and that it was something I found myself enjoying sometimes even more just hearing her than seeing her. She giggled and told me I had a good imagination. But it was when I told her that "it really turns me on and drives me crazy to think of you waking up with him in the morning....". She moaned at that but then cooed "mmm, yeah, it's something I want to do more of...." and I know I pretty much just grunted my reply to that. I am surely skipping a lot that would take me more time to type than it'd be worth sharing - but our little teasing banter went back and forth for a while as I got closer and closer to cumming. I finally was right on the edge when I told her that "... I am just so horny at thinking of you with him in our bathroom getting ready in the morning....". She knew, could tell from how my voice sounded, that I was saying something that was close to my heart. I told her that I could "see" her in the shower with him and that really turned me on and she giggled back and asked me if I liked "him drying me off?". I moaned and a moment later - with thoughts in my head that I did not share at the moment of her sitting on the toilet while he was at the mirror shaving - I moaned that I was close and she slid over closer and she told me she loved to watch me and then said "come on baby, let me see all that cum". As I said, Pavlov's dog or not, at that moment, the feel of her hand gently touching my shoulder as she moaned with an incredibly sexy sound, was enough to push me over.
Great comments Steve. I can understand your initial reluctance to go straight to two nights in your house just as much as I can understand Sue saying she will switch to his after waiting all summer for her new adventure to start. I think that is a good compromise to start with. It is after all, no more than happened many times with Robert in what was a far deeper relationship for Sue at the time. The thing is, you will start all this still feeling somewhat delicate emotionally, especially after knowing all the justifications (I don't want to call them lies) that she had fed Paul to get him to the required start point from her perspective. She is of course manipulating both of you but at least you know it. The interaction of the three of you has every potential to go a little off the rails because of this though. Sue will have to respond to anything Paul says innocently by thinking about what she has told him. As such some comments designed solely to keep him on board could sound quite hurtful to you and Sue would be unable to explain it to you at the time. Communication therefore remains the key, both while he is still there and after he leaves. Just don't believe she means everything she says to you or him while he is around. Difficult but try to shield your delicate emotions from it. Otherwise I believe you are both in the right place (as far as you can be) to start your latest adventure. Just remember to savour the remaining times with Sue. The memory may have to last you some time...
Steve - As always another great post.
I would agree with Peak that communication has always been and remains the key to keeping everything in check before, during and after activities with Paul. Peak is also on point that Sue may say things which may indeed sound hurtful to you and the communication is critical in this area so that you and Sue are on the same page in regard to your overall approach to the lifestyle and the inclusion of Paul.
When making adjustments in the lifestyle such as the direction that you are Sue are going into next with consideration to labor day weekend and beyond. Your initial reluctance is very understandable as your next steps together effectively means Sue and Paul spending more time together through consecutive days/nights at your home or at his home along with simultaneously agreeing to give up intercourse with Sue for a duration of her choosing so that she may be able to experience the feeling of belonging to Paul sexually speaking.
As I had mentioned early in the week, your open communication with Sue has continued to reach new levels. The two of you will find that special place were you both will find mutual enjoyment on your journey down this path together. Only time will truly tell when it comes to what your respective comfort levels become within the lifestyle as the dynamic continues to evolve. Looking forward to your continued postings.
I would agree with Peak that communication has always been and remains the key to keeping everything in check before, during and after activities with Paul. Peak is also on point that Sue may say things which may indeed sound hurtful to you and the communication is critical in this area so that you and Sue are on the same page in regard to your overall approach to the lifestyle and the inclusion of Paul.
When making adjustments in the lifestyle such as the direction that you are Sue are going into next with consideration to labor day weekend and beyond. Your initial reluctance is very understandable as your next steps together effectively means Sue and Paul spending more time together through consecutive days/nights at your home or at his home along with simultaneously agreeing to give up intercourse with Sue for a duration of her choosing so that she may be able to experience the feeling of belonging to Paul sexually speaking.
As I had mentioned early in the week, your open communication with Sue has continued to reach new levels. The two of you will find that special place were you both will find mutual enjoyment on your journey down this path together. Only time will truly tell when it comes to what your respective comfort levels become within the lifestyle as the dynamic continues to evolve. Looking forward to your continued postings.
Steve,
I am a bit worried about your mental/emotional health if Sue has her 2 nights in a row at Pauls place every week! I will try to explain beneath.
Weekends, as she says, will be reserved for 1 night activities (whatever that me be).
A. Let's say her first of the 2 night "shift" will start on Monday, than Sue is leaving you in the early morning to go to work. She will not come back to you untill after work on Wednesday. This will be, as always, YOUR (reserved) night with Sue (masturbating for her, cuddling and talking). You will be a very lonely man in your home for almost 3 days! Did you realise that?
B. Would it not be better for your emotional feelings to keep the original plan to let Sue and Paul have their 2 nights in a row at your place? You're able to see her every day than.
You have still time to think about it, will it be A. or B. ?
I am a bit worried about your mental/emotional health if Sue has her 2 nights in a row at Pauls place every week! I will try to explain beneath.
Weekends, as she says, will be reserved for 1 night activities (whatever that me be).
A. Let's say her first of the 2 night "shift" will start on Monday, than Sue is leaving you in the early morning to go to work. She will not come back to you untill after work on Wednesday. This will be, as always, YOUR (reserved) night with Sue (masturbating for her, cuddling and talking). You will be a very lonely man in your home for almost 3 days! Did you realise that?
B. Would it not be better for your emotional feelings to keep the original plan to let Sue and Paul have their 2 nights in a row at your place? You're able to see her every day than.
You have still time to think about it, will it be A. or B. ?
- Status
