The truth comes out

[Saraha]

A wife can be in love with her husband ("main squeeze") and also with the other guys in her life. A wife must have the space to fully enjoy each lover she goes to bed with, and a husband must give her this space so she does not have "account for what she enjoys with her lover".

I think Sue needs to go with Don or dates lasting 48 hours WITHOUT YOU BEING THERE, so she can grow her friendship and sexuality with him.

You and Sue got together, so she and Don can grow their relationship without you holding her hand and NEEDING to watch over her as closely as you are doing.

I would say that she definitely was in love with Brad, and it would be best if she felt free to sleep with him from time-to-time in the future on a very casual basis if the opportunity occurred. Brad is rebuilding his relationship with his wife, no doubt prompted by Brad's increased sexual energy while seducing your wife, Sue. His wife is now benefiting from Brad's adultery.

I really think that Sue needs her privacy with Don, and that you need to develop some new hobbies and interests for a few months so that she can cement Don into her lifestyle.

I feel that Sue knows what she wants, but is frightened to tell you, simply because you are watching too closely over her like a mother. I would guess she is also having some sadness over losing Brad for awhile, and is unable to express how she is feeling about that.

It is a pity that you can't have a "friend" for awhile to amuse you, so that Sue can have extra space. This would help you grow in understanding in ways that are not yet obvious to you.

 

[SoonToBe]

Troilusand - I think you are asking whether she ever felt emotionally in love with him. I know - from her telling me and from hearing it - that in the midst of passionate sex, that she would readily tell him that she loved him. She always said to me that when she did tell him that - that it was very much related to the "moment". Outside of that, separately she did say over time that she did feel very emotionally connected to him. She hesitated to say that she loved him - I think because she may have been concerned about how I felt about that - but over time she did admit to having some of those feelings. She took time to explain that it's not that she loved him like she loves me - as her husband and partner in life - but it is more as she would love a best-friend in terms of being connected to him in a deeper way.

I actually felt better when she explained that to me in that I felt okay that she was keeping things in perspective. I wasn't surprised as they had shared a lot of time (and sex) together over the months.

And I do think she did take it a bit hard when their time together became more infrequent. More in the sense of something like a loss of friendship and not being lovesick or something more, akin to a divorce or whatever. She said she felt sad but not hurt. I think this may be very similar to what you expressed about your wife being "in love" with her partners - just her way of explaining it vs. how Sue expressed her own feelings.

I just want Sue to have what she wants out of her relationships. I do know that many times she and Brad had definitely "made love" instead of it just Brad "fucking her". That did hurt at first, but over time I became more comfortable with it and towards the end - when I felt that there was no threat to us (Sue and I).

I know you say that your wife now loves both you and her lover and that she goes away on vacations or spends several nights at his place. I don't think I (or Sue) is ready for this yet. If Brad were someone different or if he was in a different place in his life, then that might have happened. If they had gotten to that point, I think I would have been okay. It's hard to tell but I think I would have accepted it.

Now - Saraha's post is just way over the top. I mean she hasn't done more with Don than to just flirt. Yet Saraha is already marrying her off for multiple nights away with him. To be honest, I don't think Sue is just going to jump into the deep end of the pool when all she's done is put her bathing suit on! And, I'd add that at this point - she seems to be very supportive and in favor of my being involved, at least initially. So I think your comment about "being a mother" to Sue is way out of line. If she expressed to me that she wanted to go solo with Don, I would probably let her. But it's way too early in anything between them to even suggest they would even get together in the first place (not that I doubt that Don would say no to sex with her).

And I'd say that Saraha's comments are very much in conflict with things that Indy-Hubby and others have shared in the past where they've suggested that I remain more involved and be a part of what happens.

I'd also remind Saraha that we do still have a 14 year old daughter here at home with us - and Sue is very protective of her. If she suddenly starts going away overnight frequently - it's going to raise questions that I don't think we're prepared to answer or deal with. I know we skirted a lot of issues (and we're not sure that the kids don't suspect anything) when she was seeing Brad and there were late nights and the very infrequent overnight.

I also think you are wrong - Sue doesn't know anything right now except that she thinks she might be interested in Don as possibly her "next lover". She is VERY up front with me about it - she's shared her thoughts with me and I have no reason to believe she is holding anything back. Why would she? We haven't discussed stuff that much but we did discuss that things with Don would be different than with Brad. I'm okay with that. I think it was me that told her that he may want something more than just sex but less than a committed relationship - she said she wasn't sure what she wanted other than her knowing she would like another sex partner.

I have been thinking about this more as the past 2 weeks have gone by and as we are talking about going out and trying to casually "meet" him at one of these clubs - I have been thinking about where this could go and what I could accept. Honestly, as long as it's as Troilusand says "that she loves me most" I could probably accept anything else. There's a part of me that would love for her to experience something intense to give her something she really wants. If it happened over a long time like things took with Brad, I could probably accept anything. In my mind (and with my right hand) I've gone over so many scenarios that I would enjoy her experiencing - whether they're overnight visits, going to a party with him as his "date" or even going away for a few days - if it happened naturally as in them growing together over time (and, as long as it's a secondary thing and not replacing me/us) then I would be okay with it (I hope).

But I really think that Saraha is off base for where they are and for who Sue is.

 

[AngleBaby]

Sarah always goes over the top when she can have fun with it. But she can also offer sound advice when needed. I would suggest you keep Sarah in your own wings so you may seek her humor in the day and advice at night.

 

[Troilusand]

I understand your reaction to Sahara's post--I thought the same thing when I read it last night...but if you read her prior posts on other topix and have a perspective of where she's coming from, well, I don't think it's mean-spirited. She just has a bent toward empowering women (that's my read anyway). Sahara said, "A wife must have the space to fully enjoy each lover she goes to bed with, and a husband must give her this space so she does not have "account for what she enjoys with her lover"." Well I agree 100%...but it should work in the other direction, also. And I can't remember a post where Sahara would deny a man's pleasure; it just seems she's an advocate for the distaff side.

I like this forum; you get a lot of thoughtful replies here. Unlike some forums where the wankers post reply after reply to a post like yours, as in, "Dude, Sue is already fuckin' Don, his boss, her boss, the postman and the dog that bit him. You are SO cucked." There are some dopes here, too, but I don't at all think Sahara is one of them.

Soon, I think you and I are very similar. Let me briefly describe myself: I'm in an open (we both have permission), poly (including permission to love), cuckold (I love being married to a slut!) marriage. I gravitate towards cuckold sites since, to me, hotwife sites seem to be about mmf encounters; and I have never seen my wife fuck another man (listened a few times though). But I am NOT a sub-sissy who wants to be humiliated by another man. I'm not denegrating that for others; but it's just not for me. If I were to watch another man fuck my wife, the minute he said said something demeaning to me, he'd be pulled out of my wife by the ankles, popped on the nose, and shown the door. I DO like that there are men out there who have fucked, or think they still could fuck my wife; and I DO like the fact that she's enjoyed the sex with most of them more than she does with me, but don't confront me with it.

Anyway, all my life I've always tried to help my friends get laid; and for the last 20+ years my wife has been my best friend, so why wouldn't I want to see her get all the sex/love she can stand. Are we similar, Soon?

T.

 

[SoonToBe]

While I'm tied up on the phone with a problem at work I thought I would post an update here to T and Grinch.

I know and understand where Saraha is coming from - and I can respect her opinion and position provided it's what the woman involved wants too. And that's where we part ways because right now, Sue's not there.

If she really wanted something, I'm sure I would say okay to her. The only experience I've had thus far says to me that I can trust her. So far, I have been okay and have enjoyed everything so far - even if a bit painful at the time it occurred. I wouldn't change a thing if I could.

But I honestly don't see her truly "falling in love" with another guy. I understand that she may develop an emotional relationship with him. It's not something I would want her to do but again, if it were something she did want - and want for herself, not for Don or whoever - then how could I say no if I love her.

T - I do value posting here, you're right, there aren't that many jerks. And yes, we are similar in that I definitely derive pleasure out of knowing Sue is having the type of sex she wants without me being a part of it. And totally agree in that I would not tolerate anyone treating Sue badly (unless she wanted that....). But where we differ is that I don't think either of us is ready for any sort of poly relationship - at least not in a true sense of the word where parts of our relationships merge together.

Anyway - nothing happening here tonight as I'm stuck doing work...

 

[Troilusand]

Soon, I think you're in a good spot attitude-wise. You seem prepared for what ever Sue might bring to you. Gotta love our horney sluts!

Grinch, I posted a reply to your poly thread that explains myself a little more. I didn't wanna hijack Soon's thread here, so I'm glad there was a place to talk poly/cuck. I hope you get through the pain soon. You don't seem very happy. Good luck.

T.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, it's going to be a quiet 4th around here as Sue period arrived the other day. She has an "early out" at work today too so she's not even sure if Don will be around this week. I told her that we could go out next Friday evening and check out the clubs/bars he mentioned to her. She smiled at that suggestion!

I was looking into the Poly stuff after T's last response - but I have to say that I don't think we are ready for that and I don't know how that could possibly work for us with kids in the picture. We are not about to share our sexual lifestyle with them and since they're going to be around, in and out, for the next 10+ years until our daughter finishes college - I suspect we'll never adopt a poly lifestyle.

I've been thinking about how I'd feel if Sue wanted to do more with Don. Assuming I like him and am okay with him - I'm not sure that I would necessarily interfere in anything she might want to do as long as its within reason. I know that I look back and am still so incredibly turned on when I think about her having spent the night with Brad - thinking about them sleeping together, fucking all night whenever they wanted - that's a turn-on for sure.

But since I've been thinking about it more - I'm almost scared to say that the part that turns me on maybe even more is thinking about them in the morning together when they woke up. The shared intimacy they must have shared waking up next to each other - maybe a quick fuck - then showering and dressing together. So, I'm sort of thinking now that if she did want to get a bit more serious with Don - that maybe I would be okay and might even enjoy knowing she is out on a date with him and knowing she is out in the open with him. I haven't said it to her but I do sort of miss the anxiety and arousal I always felt when she would say "no" to me on Wednesday nights because she wanted Brad the next day.

Of course the memories are incredibly intense. I know that I will never forget the moment I experienced when I watched Brad cum inside her. Part of me says it sounds crazy to be turned on by that - but the bigger part of me just cannot get the image of him thrusting into her and hearing it as he gave my baby his cum in her pussy. She does know that it turns me on incredibly to know that he came inside her a LOT in the time they were together, maybe even more than me at times.

My mind also wanders to the other posts here that may be more on the fantasy side but that talk about the 2 of them "chemically bonding" from his sperm inside her. She was so concerned about how I'd feel knowing she was sharing her pussy - it all seems sort of funny now looking back on it as that part was actually very easy for me to accept.

Oh well - I guess these are just part of the ups and downs of this.

Have a Happy 4th everyone.

 

[AngleBaby]

Kids can accept a lot and today, morality centers on treating others the way one wants to be treated far more than what is normal in society. If you are worried this will result in a screwed up or confused childhood for your children, then you are misguided. Of course you would need to explain it, but they can understand anything you are able to explain. They would not be confused by your wife sleeping with another man and loving him as much as she loves you. To them, that would be as normal as anything else.
Do you watch Penn and Teller? They did a show on marriage and called the morality behind it BS. They found a husband and wife who have an open marriage. If it were rare, then they would need to take who ever they could get to sign a waiver. But they found from their choices, a couple that each have a boyfriend and girlfriend, who also sign waivers, and the couples son, who also went on camera. Either they were lucky, or this is far more common than you think.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, it may be more common than I think but it is still not something I would want our kids being ******* to. Perhaps when they are older, married and secure in their own lives they could accept the decisions their parents have made. But right now there are too many divorces and other turmoil in their friends lives to give them anything to worry about in their own lives.

In a purely philosophical sense, pehaps the openness and honest that we have about this and that we are both knowingly engaging in this behavior would perhaps ease their concerns. "Gee if Dad knows Mom is fucking someone else and he's okay with it, then we don't have to worry" sounds great on paper but I have to think it would be VERY confusing to our son who is in his first more serious relationship and to our daughter who may misinterpret this as a license for promiscuity as she gets older and becomes sexually active.

Sorry - but what you see and hear in the media isn't always what's best for kids. Especially not for ours who have grown up in the more traditional family structure much like we all grew up in back in the 50's and 60's (I know, not everyone grew up that way but we did and those are the values we want to espouse to our kids).

 

[AngleBaby]

Well...I will start off by pointing out the irony of worrying about the promiscuity of your daughter: Your wife and you engage in the very activity you fret your daughter might pick up on.

I will continue by expanding on what I said earlier: Your children can understand what you are able to explain. Homosexual couples do explain their relationships to their adopted children and it has not affected the sexuality of their kids. Neither would it affect the sexuality of your kids if they were explained what your relationships are. It is not to say it will be easy to explain, but that burden is on your own shoulders.

I will wax poetically on philosophical matters: Growing up shouldn't be easy either. It is a time for trial and error and errors do hurt, but we learn from them. The earlier lessons are learned, the better we are for it.

Get pragmatic: Teach your daughter safe sex early on. All daughters will have sex, but it only takes one round while ignorant to contract an STD. As for her behavior when she become sexually active; so what if she is sexually active with a few boyfriends? As long as she is safe and maintains her bright future, I do not see how safe sexual activity will do any harm. It will in fact help mature her sense of self if she learns it is normally a private matter, e.g. it is not your place to ask what kind of sexual activity she engages in.

And I will finish by asking you to qualify a list of those values and I will reply with a list of older, more important American values I raise my kids with.

 

[SoonToBe]

Angle - while I will discuss most anything here, please do not try to be a parent to my kids. You may feel differently about yours but I do not care to continue this discussion about MY kids. I have said how I/we feel and anything further is not in scope here. This lifestyle is difficult enough as it is.

 

[Troilusand]

Umm, Angle, was one of those superior values raising other people's kids? While I happen to agree with you about the sexual activity of teenagers, I wouldn't presume to lecture someone on a cuckold site, for crissake, on THAT subject. I think ANY reason someone has who wants to stay in the closet about a society percieved perversion, is legitimate. When that person cites their kids as the reason......need I say more?

And if I've offended you, I'm sorry. You can PM me if you'd like, I'd be glad to dicuss/debate; but I won't be responding to this subject further in this thread, as I hate when threads get hijacked over something like this.

With respect,

T.

 

[Troilusand]

Soon, not to push you toward poly, but the logistix of poly needn't be any different than hotwife. Instead of being simply fuck buddies, they're "in love", too; that's all. It's not the public togetherness that makes it poly, but their emotions. If Sue and Don (or any other lover, for that matter) are never seen together outside his apartment, but they're in love...that's poly. If a bull (Zounds, I hate that term) moves into your house, takes your wife to family events, etc., and it's just for kinky sex...that aint poly.

What I'm saying is, make your marriage poly if more LOVE is what you both want for Sue. You've handled hotwife with Brad, I'm sure you two can adapt to make poly work--if that's what you both want (notice how I repeat this part?).

T.

 

[Susan's Slave]

Wow, some hard-hitting stuff going on all the sudden. Happy Fourth to you and Sue.

I can agree with Angle that kids can learn to adapt to almost anything if you you start them early enough, but in my experience teenagers can be the most judgmental creatures on earth. I guess they like to feel grown up and have freedoms but rely on their parents to provide that solid anchor to a safe place at home. So SoonToBe I support you not only because you are correct that they are your kids, but also because they need home to be that safe and innocent place! Talk to them about this lifestyle only if/when they confront you with questions about what they have seen. Then be honest and open to their concerns.

Now, back to our original programming and good luck with your bar hopping next week!

 

[SoonToBe]

Not much to share here - it's been a family-filled 4th weekend with more yet to come with dinner out tonight with more family. Sue's got her period so it's not like there's a real reason we need to be home. Still - awesome weather, finally....

We started discussing plans for later this week. She's already let me know she's going to be horny when she's ready in another day or two. We're figuring on going out Friday night after work - with our son now driving, he can take care of dinner and have the kids can have the house till we get home late. Sue asked if she should dress really sexy and I just said she should be herself - but if she wanted to be a little risque she could do that. I asked her if she thought she might want to go as far as hooking up with him on Friday and she said she didn't think she'd be ready for that just yet. And then she added "besides which, you'll be there".
But that's all there is for now.

 

[Troilusand]

I don't see anything sinister. I think it falls right in line with my perception of Sue's personality that I've gleaned from Soon's posts: A playful howife/poly slut. Remember, Don's a workplace guy with whom she's gone no further than flirting, not somebody she's meeting at the bar from AFF. I just don't think Sue's the type (at this point in her level of expeience) who would broach the "let's fuck, I'm a hotwife" subject with a new man while her husband was at the table with them. I simply see it as Sue is being honest. Can't wait for an update!

T.

 

[SoonToBe]

I sort of remember this attitude with her from last year when she started to really get more interested in Brad.

She woke up in such an "up" mood today. Even the kids were looking at her strangely - she said "its a beautiful day" - and it is!

She can't dress slutty or revealingly for work but she did pick out something today that did look good on her!! A sort of low-cut blouse that would open up a bit if she leaned forward. A bra with a lot of lace on it instead of a closed cup - behind her open blouse you can clearly see her tits and even make out the color of her nipples. Hot - very hot! Just a skirt, panties and thigh-highs on the bottom - nothing fancy panty-wise either.

But her attitude gave it away to me - she normally doesn't rush off to work but today she did. I asked her if she thought he'd be there today and she said "of course - he wasn't in last week" - so whatever he supplies/adjusts/tends-to will certainly be there for him today. She said she was going to casually ask him "what were those clubs again?" even though she knows them both very well, just to get him talking again.

I told her that we could go to one or both of them tomorrow night, we already told our son that we'd be out late so he'll tend to the house and his younger sister.

That's it for now.

T - you have a good assessment of Sue. Unlike so many others here who think she's just going to jump into bed with a new guy - you seem to understand her the way I do. Thanks for the reassurement.

 

[SoonToBe]

Just a quick note.
Sue was all bubbly and giggly last night when she came home.
She said Don was in and that he spent some extra time hanging around her area and they talked for a while. She did as we discussed and hinted that we might be checking out one or both of the clubs he mentioned.
She said he seemed happy about that and said it'd be fun - she said he even joked about him "getting her out on the dance floor" when she said that I don't dance much. I told her that was fine - if he asked her to dance that she knew I would be fine with it anyway.

So - that's it - we'll both be home for dinner tonight and will then go out about 8:30pm. Apparently Don said that both clubs have live bands who don't start until about 10pm. She didn't push more to find out which club he'll be at - so we'll just cruise both of them tonight.

Wish us luck.

 

[SoonToBe]

Oh one more thing.
I asked if we might get frisky last night in bed and she looked at me and said that she'd rather wait till we get home tonight. I joked with her that she wanted to be horned up when she's dancing with him and she just blushed at that but didn't answer me.

 

[duke9555]

Oh one more thing.
I asked if we might get frisky last night in bed and she looked at me and said that she'd rather wait till we get home tonight. I joked with her that she wanted to be horned up when she's dancing with him and she just blushed at that but didn't answer me.

========

i have confidence STB your delightfully
adulterous wife will not disappont us all
and will carry on a torrid affair here as she
did with Brad ...only this time she'll rub your
face init even more!!