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Seems like Thursday's will be a regular thing

  • Thread starterSoonToBe
  • Start date
Hey all - I saw the posts from earlier and I wanted to update more.

What came out was something that I'd sort of known or guessed but when I heard it from her it hit me that this may be more than I'd wanted and that maybe some of you were right.

She says it is nothing and it is something she had told me about long ago. After her divorce before me she saw a shrink for a while. One thing she said she learned about herself was that she could say "I love you" and have it be only for that moment or for that feeling - and she said it to me very early on during sex. She reminded me of this many times, how she'd said that to me possibly the first time we had sex together and how that made me feel so close to her as we fucked.

But it felt so different now when she told me she'd scream that out to Brad as they fucked. I told her I felt it was different - she was working that out with her shrink as she was dating guys and stuff - and I told her that saying she loved him just felt too much to me even if it was only about their sex together.

She really didn't want to hear any of it and she sort of said at one point that she could no more easily stop saying that than I could stop snoring at night!

I asked her if Brad said it back to her? She said she didn't think so but that she couldn't really say it one way or another.

I asked her honestly if she'd ever said it to him outside this peak of passion between them. And that was the other moment that hurt me. She didn't answer "no" right away and I knew that meant yes. She said it wasn't like that - and that it was still about the moment. I asked her if it was the moment or the man? She was very firm that it was just the moment and that's all. Over and over she said that.

I told her that this, on top of the intimacy level between them was just about too much. That was when she said "what do you expect? we're fucking each other, aren't we?" She said that it's been a few months now - she said she does have feelings for him. Not in any way that she'd leave me or is even thinking about such a thing but that she does feel strongly about Brad and not that she loves him, but - as she said several times "he is far more than a friend".

She then started to tell me more of what they talk about when they're not fucking. She said that she's talked with him about all sorts of problems he's having with his kids and his wife's way of taking care of them. They've talked about his problems at work and what she thinks he should do in certain situations. And she told me that she's shared some stuff with him about our lives and asked his opinions and such. And I guess I began to see more sides of their now, apparently, relationship that has come up.

We went on and on and she remains fairly adamant that this is not love between them, just intense friendship and that she always puts his family life above her desires. I told her that I felt like she'd shared so much of what used to just be ours together - and that it happened not just so quickly but more that it happened so easily for her to let him have those parts of her.

I told her how I felt about the whole diaphragm thing, the naked thing, the showering together thing, the kissing and hickeys thing and yes, the denial thing. And I told her how some of this stuff some of the time might be exciting but giving it all to him every time feels like it's too much.

She listened very intently and once again told me that she just felt really good with him and that she wasn't ready to change that just yet and how she didn't want to. She held me and said I didn't have anything to worry about and she told me that Brad may get her body but that he would never have her heart as that was mine.

I was speechless at that. And I asked her what she was going to do and all she turned it on me - after she'd said that - and asked instead - what did I want her to do? She said she'd do anything that I wanted if I told her what it was I wanted.

I thought for a second or two - or was that a minute or two - it was long enough that she asked "well?" a second time. And I finally just said that I wanted her to be careful with "us" - I was going to say more but before I could think of how I wanted to say it, she leaned onto me and started kissing me and telling me over and over how she loved me and stuff like that.

There was some other stuff but that was most of it. We had some other talking today and we seemed to reach a happy place as we found time for a "quickie" this afternoon and, despite no teasing or mention of Brad or stuff like that, we both thoroughly enjoyed ourselves very much.

She went to bed a bit early and here I sit thinking of this whole situation and I"m not sure what to make of it. I do believe her when she says she loves me and wouldn't ever hurt us. But I also believe that she's already given a part of herself to Brad that cannot come back. That this part with Brad is sexual is very much a turn on for me. That he shares her body as easily as I do - that she screams with him as she does with me - that's all still a turn-on. But thinking of her clutching his back as she does mine and thinking of her screaming how she loves him - the feeling those thoughts give me are just so strange and different.

I will encourage her to seek out another partner - but I need to be sure I make her understand that it's not that I want her slutting herself out all over the place, but rather than I want her to have more experience so that she can know better what she wants and how far she wants it to go. I'm just not sure when I'll ask her - as I also don't want her to think I'm somehow jealous about Brad as I wouldn't want to drive anything they're doing underground to keep it away from my knowledge.

Anyway - that's a long enough update. I do still love her, maybe even more than before if that can be. Marys-pet, I'm sorry I never commented more on the things you wrote - some of what you wrote was very profound to me, perhaps there will be more time this week.

Perhaps it's time to start a new thread?
 
SoonToBe said:
Anyway - that's a long enough update. I do still love her, maybe even more than before if that can be. Marys-pet, I'm sorry I never commented more on the things you wrote - some of what you wrote was very profound to me, perhaps there will be more time this week.

Perhaps it's time to start a new thread?

Comment on as much or as little as you like. I felt badly for writing so much, and hijacking your thread in the process. Keeping the conversation going in this thread seems to be working for now, so let's just go with that.

Back when all of this started with Brad, several people here, myself included, suggested that you encourage her to have more than one extramarital partner. At the time you did not feel the need, and now that you are starting to feel it, you're confronted with the reality that you would have had a greater ability to impact what she does back then than you do now. Sue is growing in her role as your cuckoldress, and starting to wear the power you have given her comfortably.

At this point you can offer your opinions and desires, and she will hopefully (likely at this point, imo, given that the two of you seem to have a marriage based on deep love) take them under advisement, but even she realizes by now that the final decision is hers. I would bring up your desire for her to take another lover sooner, rather than later, before it becomes too late. Frame it that you do not in any wish to take away from anything that she has with Brad, and any feelings that she's starting to develop for him, but that you would feel more comfortable if she was carrying on with two men outside your marriage, which would make it less likely that either of her relationships with them would grow over time to compete with you and your marriage. You need to be very up front with this, both about your desire for her to take another lover, and about your reasons why. This is not the time for subtle hints or beating around the bush.

Out of curiosity, several months ago I suggested that I clearly saw the possibility of chastity play in your future. At the time you were fairly adamant that you couldn't see either yourself or Sue wanting to go that way? Are you still feeling so sure of those thoughts?
 
Marys-pet, I had a few minutes with her already off to work and I re-read both what I posted and what you added.

I guess I should have maybe listened to others here regarding her having another guy - but I just don't see how she would have agreed to that or even been interested in it at that time. Even now, I'm not sure why she'd want another guy other than to satisfy my concerns and if I can convince her to see that she might be going in too far with Brad right now.

The thing is, she continues to tell me this is nothing more than just a once-a-week thing. For either of them. So she's either terribly naive of she just doesn't see it that way - and I"m not sure how to argue that point with her. She insists that there's nothing to it and she says that makes my concerns, well, less concerning, I guess.

There's been some people who've posted about more extreme stuff. You about chastity for me and Custer about subservience via masturbating at her feet.

I think what I'm realizing is that I am a cuckold and that I want to be one. By that I mean that I do want her to fuck Brad and I do want her to enjoy it - and, to a degree that it enhances sex between us and my overall level of arousal - that she flaunt and tease me about that, and to a degree, also deny me. But I don't want anything beyond this, at least not at this point. I think I'd have a problem with chastity as I did enjoy masturbating for/with her last Wednesday and I do enjoy it at other times.

But I don't see her wanting to control me that way either. I know that if she were to come home on a Thursday and tell me she was too tired or whatever to have sex with me, that I could accept it voluntarily so I'm not sure why she'd want to prevent me from any self-pleasure at other times? If she asked me to - I'd masturbate anywhere for her I guess. That's really nothing new as she's long liked to watch me since we first got together and I think she always liked that I wasn't so self-conscious as to mind.

It's the sharing of herself like she does that gets to me. I know I am the furthest thing from her mind when she's with Brad - as I think it should be. But since she's told me how she is with him - it just gets to me in an uncomfortable way - that I guess, I'll just have to get used to it seems.

The thing about it is that when she tells me that stuff as part of foreplay or sexual-sharing between us - and even when I'm alone masturbating to some fantasy or something - the images and ideas that I get about them together are actually incredibly exciting to me. I mean there's a part of me that would like to see them in the shower together - him behind her soaping her breasts. Even now - sitting here - thinking about her just being naked with him when they're together - just something as simple as that turns me on. The physical side of all of this is such a turn on for me - even her spreading her legs and letting him put her diaphragm in - that part, it seems, does turn me on - knowing she's opening herself and he's inside her readying her for him - that part is actually quite arousing. It's the emotional side that I'm having problems dealing with, I guess.

Anyway - I think it's time for a new thread. I think my brain is tired of thinking and hopefully, I'll work up the courage this week to tell her what I'd like in terms of us and her.

Marys-pet - I've been thinking about you and your situation for a while now too. I would have to say that what you are going through I would describe as scarily-arousing at this point. I honestly cannot say that I would be okay if I knew now when the last time I'd have sex with Sue would be. But on the other hand - I can certainly understand some of what you must be going through in terms of the intensity and mental states you must go through each Saturday you are together. I would guess that there is a conflict in feelings of both wanting the pleasure to last forever - but at the same time, am I correct in sensing that there is also a desire for time to pass by - maybe not so much more quickly, but maybe less-slowly so as to keep the intensity of knowing the end is coming more of a sharp-edge?

I can say that on Tuesday nights when, hopefully, Sue and I have sex - that I am acutely aware that she will say "no" to sex on Wednesday night with me and I must admit that it is powerfully arousing to hear her say and to know clearly now that she would prefer to wait for Brad.

Do you think Mary derives any pleasure in knowing that you are one day closer to that end? I wonder how she feels about your Saturday nights together and whether she marks each weekend as a pleasurable experience or as simply "one less time" with you? I think that would be interesting to know - very similar to my curiosity about what Sue thinks and feels on our own Tuesday-Wednesday thing.
 
SoonToBe said:
Marys-pet, I had a few minutes with her already off to work and I re-read both what I posted and what you added.

I guess I should have maybe listened to others here regarding her having another guy - but I just don't see how she would have agreed to that or even been interested in it at that time. Even now, I'm not sure why she'd want another guy other than to satisfy my concerns and if I can convince her to see that she might be going in too far with Brad right now.

The thing is, she continues to tell me this is nothing more than just a once-a-week thing. For either of them. So she's either terribly naive of she just doesn't see it that way - and I"m not sure how to argue that point with her. She insists that there's nothing to it and she says that makes my concerns, well, less concerning, I guess.

I recommend presenting it to her that the fact that her level of intimacy with Brad is a problem for you makes it a problem for the two of you as a couple. Explain to her that if she were to take another lover, you would feel less threatened by either one of them individually. She will take what you have to say under advisement, and either take another lover to appease you or not, but this may be your last, best chance to head this off.


SoonToBe said:
There's been some people who've posted about more extreme stuff. You about chastity for me and Custer about subservience via masturbating at her feet.

I think what I'm realizing is that I am a cuckold and that I want to be one. By that I mean that I do want her to fuck Brad and I do want her to enjoy it - and, to a degree that it enhances sex between us and my overall level of arousal - that she flaunt and tease me about that, and to a degree, also deny me. But I don't want anything beyond this, at least not at this point. I think I'd have a problem with chastity as I did enjoy masturbating for/with her last Wednesday and I do enjoy it at other times.

It will be interesting to see if your feelings about this, and hers, evolve over time. Mary and I have done occasional chastity play, using a CB-3000, so I guess I don't view it in the same "extreme" light that you do. With us, it started off at first as something that we did when we were going to be apart for more than a couple of days, if either of us was away on business or whatever. Especially if she was going to be in a situation where she could hook up with someone during our time apart, she wanted my focus to remain on her. Like many guys, if I get off while I'm thinking about her being with someone else, afterwards the edge is gone and I'm just lonely and want her to come home. Although I'm more than happy to abstain, Mary is very much of the "trust, but verify" philosophy.

I suspect, as we get closer to the end of our partnered sex life, that it will become a more regular thing with us. For our 20th anniversary, which is a little more than 2 years away, she's said that she'd like me to get a PA piercing. She hasn't come out and explicitly said this, but knowing her as I do, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that she wants this in order to enable the use of a Lori's tube for more long term chastity play. Once I'm no longer granted access to her pussy, I can see her wanting to make sure I'm not satisfying my sexuality in ways that take my focus away from her, i.e. by masturbating to private fantasies, and so she will want to control my releases.

SoonToBe said:
Marys-pet - I've been thinking about you and your situation for a while now too. I would have to say that what you are going through I would describe as scarily-arousing at this point. I honestly cannot say that I would be okay if I knew now when the last time I'd have sex with Sue would be. But on the other hand - I can certainly understand some of what you must be going through in terms of the intensity and mental states you must go through each Saturday you are together. I would guess that there is a conflict in feelings of both wanting the pleasure to last forever - but at the same time, am I correct in sensing that there is also a desire for time to pass by - maybe not so much more quickly, but maybe less-slowly so as to keep the intensity of knowing the end is coming more of a sharp-edge?

I'd say that you understand my mental state quite well. Knowing that the end is coming, and that each Saturday we're able to fuck (or even Saturdays when we aren't) brings us closer to the end definitely ramps up the volume on my head trip. At the same time, I'm not yet ready for our sex life to end, and take some comfort in the knowledge that it's still quite a way off. As it gets closer, I imagine there will be more of an element of panic involved, which will also contribute to ramping up the intensity. I love knowing that the end of my sex life with my wife is coming, and hate it at the same time.

SoonToBe said:
Do you think Mary derives any pleasure in knowing that you are one day closer to that end? I wonder how she feels about your Saturday nights together and whether she marks each weekend as a pleasurable experience or as simply "one less time" with you? I think that would be interesting to know - very similar to my curiosity about what Sue thinks and feels on our own Tuesday-Wednesday thing.

She enjoys our Saturday nights together, and almost always experiences several orgasms during them. Our encounters are very connective for both of us, but at the same time she tells me that on a purely physical level they aren't as satisfying for her as when one of her fuck buddies fucks her, and she's happy to tell me so. She also embraces her role as my cuckoldress, and to a certain extent gets off on the Domme aspects of cutting me off. I don't think she's quite ready for our partnered sex life to be over yet, but she does very much enjoy knowing that the end is coming, and that it does so because it's her wish that our sex life cease at some point.

All in all, I'd say that what's going on in both our heads represents a bit of a paradox.
 
My wife and I have engaged in chastity "play" with a cb-3000 also. There are a number of aspects of chastity for me:
1) I have to sit to pee. This is not a favorite for me.
2) I absolutely cannot masturbate
3) It reinforces who is in charge of our sex life.
4) It gives my wife peace of mind that I'm not cheating (either with a woman or by masturbating)

My wife thinks is a great head game to keep me in line. Neither of us consider it all that extreme, and I have grown used to it. I'm mostly kept locked up when we are apart, but there are times that she locks me up purely for the effect it has on me. I'm much more focused on pleasing her, and she knows it.

It's not something I'd recommend for everybody, but it can add spice to things.

As I have posted in this thread before, I think it's important for Sue to have another fb besides Brad. With the level of intimacy that happening, emotional ties are bound to develop, even if they are not wanted.
 
OneForSure said:
My wife and I have engaged in chastity "play" with a cb-3000 also. There are a number of aspects of chastity for me:
1) I have to sit to pee. This is not a favorite for me.
2) I absolutely cannot masturbate
3) It reinforces who is in charge of our sex life.
4) It gives my wife peace of mind that I'm not cheating (either with a woman or by masturbating)

My wife thinks is a great head game to keep me in line. Neither of us consider it all that extreme, and I have grown used to it. I'm mostly kept locked up when we are apart, but there are times that she locks me up purely for the effect it has on me. I'm much more focused on pleasing her, and she knows it.

It's not something I'd recommend for everybody, but it can add spice to things.

As I have posted in this thread before, I think it's important for Sue to have another fb besides Brad. With the level of intimacy that happening, emotional ties are bound to develop, even if they are not wanted.

It sounds like our experiences with chastity play are very similar, although I don't think my wife would ever seriously consider the possibility that I might cheat with another woman. She knows me better than that. Mostly she just likes to control my masturbation.

Yeah, having to sit to pee sucks, and working out at the gym while locked up can present some interesting challenges.
 
Hello OneForSure and Marys-pet - thanks again for the fascinating insight into the whole chastity thing. But I don't see it as something I'd want or desire, and I'm not sure I see Sue wanting this either.

I guess I don't see what would be in it for her - that plus the fact that she's never mentioned it. I would actually think the opposite would be true for her - that she would be happywith my masturbating as a way of alleviating my desires for her. This is sort of what we did last week when I masturbated on Wednesday when she preferred for herself to wait for Brad on Thursday.

I think, if anything, that if she genuinely begins to prefer Brad at other times, in effect increasing her denial of me - I would think that she would be even more encouraging of my masturbating. Possibly the only application I can see would be her wanting to prevent me from such masturbation so that I would want her more on the nights when she is available to me. But in that case - all she needs to do is just say that's what she wants! I don't see a physical need for chastity and I wouldn't simply go along with it just because it's what she wants. I have not ceded that level of control to her.

I don't see this as something Sue would want as I don't see what she would get out of it other than, apparently, some sort of satisfaction out of controlling that aspect of my own sexuality.

I have never found the subject of chastity to be arousing in and of itself. However, none of this is to say that if she did want to try it, that I would resist - more that I just don't see her embracing it as a concept for us.

I have actually suggested, a while back now so she may have forgotten, that she TELL me to masturbate, possibly even several times, before she goes out as a way of curbing my desire for her when she returns. But that would be as close to ****** chastity that I can see her doing and I would associate it more with aspects of short-term denial than chastity.
 
rego79 said:
You wrote your going to suggest Sue finds another partner. I was wondering if you meant an extra as well as Brad or someone else instead of Brad. How do you think he would react to either of these choices? Would he share Sue?

That's not his decision to make. Brad is Sue's fuck buddy, not her husband or even someone she's in a relationship with, and his coming to terms with that reality would also be a good thing.
 
It's my opinion that there is a chance of Sue becoming emotionally involved with Brad. If things continue to be just Brad and SoonToBe. Sue having another Fuck Buddy would minimize this possibility. It is true that this is Sue's decision, and it appears to me that SoonToBe understands that, BUT if he continues to urge Sue to expand her sexual activity beyond Brad, I think their marriage will be stronger. Sue will realize what she sees in SoonToBe (her emotional base), and what she sees in her Fuck Buddies - a good time. It's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
 
Howdy Soon To Be

Well Sir you and Sue have came a long way. That is the beauty of the whole thing. Remember i was one of the ones who suggested more than one stud lover for Sue. No harm no foul, for it is not to late to accomplish all that you want from your very fulfilling hot wife experiences with your hot lady Sue. It is not mandatory by any means for Sue to have other lovers, BUT its much hotter for all involved, plus it is a huge sort of a safety net. Sure Brad is a fuck buddy and good friend of Sues, but he must realize and realize now,that is all he is. A good hot wife or girlfriend can hardly wait to get home with her fresh filled pussy so she can show he man what she has done for HIM. This Sue does for you and she is even keeping it full until you have your shot at her fresh done pussy. This is what its all about and you two are there! You should just let her know your deepest wishes and any fears you have must be addressed at this time. From reading your posts it is obivious that you two are very intellegent people and you shall have no problems moving on in your hot wife lifestyle. Sue is very attractive from what we can see, has a wonderful ass and all the goodies to be a very sought after hot wife. Now please dont think i am suggesting that she just have sex with just anyone, for i am not. Just saying she will be sought after, if she gives any man of her choice, the smallest hint that she is intrested and might be available for him. You Two will be just fine and i hope you take no offense to what i have said. Happy Days okdeacon PS I have had a few lady friends in my life that have said to me, I LOVE YOU while giving her the long quick deep strokes. But we both knew what they were saying was that she loved the SEX. Some said it in front of their men, i often wondered how the man took it. None ever said anything about it afterward. I know i would not like it. Its not simple is it? okd
 
Hey all - our son is about to go to bed so Sue and I will finally have some time alone. I'm not sure what the rest of the night will bring (of course, I know what we won't be doing).

I've been reading everything that you've been writing here and I do agree. She already told me she'll have her period next week, and after that is Thanksgiving so it'll be a while in there when we'll have time to talk and she won't be seeing Brad on Thursdays.

In the meanwhile, I have to say that last night we didn't fuck - we made passionate love (sorry to sound corny), it was very connecting for us as we both really drove the other wild till the very end. No mention of Brad or anything like that - just tender closeness. It was very reassuring too.

Till later.
 
Sounds cool, SoonToBe, and please keep us posted on how things are going. Very fortuitous that Thanksgiving this month, and Christmas and New Year's next month, will provide natural breaks in Sue's Thursday routine with Brad. Perhaps you'll be able to get out in front of this thing after all.

Very cool that you and Sue were able to make love on Tuesday, and here's wishing her a great fuck session with Brad this afternoon. Out of curiosity, does she not let Brad fuck her when she has her period?
 
Greetings,

I won't dwell too much on last night suffice to say that Sue asked me if I wanted some "alone time" - meaning she'd leave me alone with the computer in the office if I wanted to masturbate - or she asked if I "wanted her company" which I understood her to mean if I wanted to masturbate with her ( or rather in-front of her). I told her that it didn't much matter as I knew we weren't having sex and she said that she "always likes to watch" and she offered again to tease or encourage me if I wanted. I had thought about maybe finding a good video on the 'Net (she's not into computer video porn) and having some fun alone - but I reconsidered (figuring I'll have plenty of alone time next week) so I said okay to her offer.

Sparing all the details - she did lie next to me naked and as I got closer - she spread her legs and teased me how Brad was going to be the next to cum in her. She kept going on about that and just a few minutes later I started to get close. I hoped she'd lean over again but last night she said she wanted to watch. I've always loved her to watch me so I let it fly all over my stomach and chest. She played with it with her fingers and at one point, put them in my mouth which I think turned her on. A little bit later she got me a warm washcloth and cleaned me up.

This morning was her regulat Thursday routing. All happy & giddy. Left a little earlier with a spare bag with her that I saw contained her diaphragm, some lingerie and I thought I saw one of her vibrators in there too. She let me know too that she would probably be home later again as this is their last time together for a few weeks.

Marys-pet - Sue doesn't like sex during her period. She's just not okay with the mess and she believes she'd still need to use her diaphragm so that's just too messy. Yes - she knows that good sex/orgasms during her period can reduce cramps, etc., but she's just not into it.

It's now about 1pm and I'm getting all horny again writing this and thinking about her later tonight.
 
It's 7pm and the kids are eating downstairs in front of the TV. Meanwhile, I'm pacing eagerly waiting for her to get home. It's such an intense feeling to think of what she and Brad are doing right now. I don't expect her till between 8 and 8:30pm so I have another hour or so.

The kids are used to it - every Thursday mom has a late meeting - they don't think anything odd.

It's this part of her and Brad - this and then later tonight - that I would have to say that are the most arousing to me. Mentally now and physically later.
 
Been there, done that. Last night I was home alone with our kids while mom was out at a "book club meeting" -- i.e. a dinner date with one of her fuck buddies.

It's quite the head trip, thinking about what they're doing, isn't it?
 
Just a short update and then I think I'll begin a new thread.

MP - yes, it's quite intense when you let yourself think about it. To be honest, most of the time I'm/we're too busy to dwell on it and let the entire reality sink in. During those times, I think I just feel arousal in general - like when it's busy at work so I just look at the clock and think briefly about it.

But when there's time to dwell on it - especially when it is the actual same time as she's busy with Brad - the mental aspects of it are just incredible. I think my brain amplifies everything as I go in a million directions at once and try to think about everything they're doing together.

The thoughts of them writhing together on the bed or wherever are enough to torment me for hours or so it seems.

But then - as with last night - seeing her come in - with that unmistakeable look on her face. My god the feelings are just so intense - jealousy, anxiety, love, admiration and even a bit of rage!

Last night was quite comical. As Sue puttered around the kitchen when she came in before going upstairs - our daughter was talking to her/us. At one point Sue was at the kitchen sink and our daughter said 'uh oh mom - looks like you sat in something'!!!!

At that moment I looked over and could see a wet-spot on the back of her skirt! I immediately knew what it was and Sue just said "oh, I must have leaned against something that was wet"! And with that she (and I) went up to the bedroom to get changed.

I'm going to start a new thread later to continue this thought as right now it's lunchtime and I'm famished. Good sex always give me an appetite the next day and last night was definitely up there in terms of "good".
 
Congratulations, SoontoBe. Your wife is handling everything really well, and you are so lucky that she will still masturbate with you. She obviously cares about you very much, and you are having a huge range of emotions - which is as it should be.
 
SoonToBe said:
I'm going to start a new thread later to continue this thought as right now it's lunchtime and I'm famished. Good sex always give me an appetite the next day and last night was definitely up there in terms of "good".

Looking for ward to reading your new thread, once you get it up, and hearing the latest updates on your continuing discussion with Sue and your evolving relationship.
 

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