Hey all - I saw the posts from earlier and I wanted to update more.
What came out was something that I'd sort of known or guessed but when I heard it from her it hit me that this may be more than I'd wanted and that maybe some of you were right.
She says it is nothing and it is something she had told me about long ago. After her divorce before me she saw a shrink for a while. One thing she said she learned about herself was that she could say "I love you" and have it be only for that moment or for that feeling - and she said it to me very early on during sex. She reminded me of this many times, how she'd said that to me possibly the first time we had sex together and how that made me feel so close to her as we fucked.
But it felt so different now when she told me she'd scream that out to Brad as they fucked. I told her I felt it was different - she was working that out with her shrink as she was dating guys and stuff - and I told her that saying she loved him just felt too much to me even if it was only about their sex together.
She really didn't want to hear any of it and she sort of said at one point that she could no more easily stop saying that than I could stop snoring at night!
I asked her if Brad said it back to her? She said she didn't think so but that she couldn't really say it one way or another.
I asked her honestly if she'd ever said it to him outside this peak of passion between them. And that was the other moment that hurt me. She didn't answer "no" right away and I knew that meant yes. She said it wasn't like that - and that it was still about the moment. I asked her if it was the moment or the man? She was very firm that it was just the moment and that's all. Over and over she said that.
I told her that this, on top of the intimacy level between them was just about too much. That was when she said "what do you expect? we're fucking each other, aren't we?" She said that it's been a few months now - she said she does have feelings for him. Not in any way that she'd leave me or is even thinking about such a thing but that she does feel strongly about Brad and not that she loves him, but - as she said several times "he is far more than a friend".
She then started to tell me more of what they talk about when they're not fucking. She said that she's talked with him about all sorts of problems he's having with his kids and his wife's way of taking care of them. They've talked about his problems at work and what she thinks he should do in certain situations. And she told me that she's shared some stuff with him about our lives and asked his opinions and such. And I guess I began to see more sides of their now, apparently, relationship that has come up.
We went on and on and she remains fairly adamant that this is not love between them, just intense friendship and that she always puts his family life above her desires. I told her that I felt like she'd shared so much of what used to just be ours together - and that it happened not just so quickly but more that it happened so easily for her to let him have those parts of her.
I told her how I felt about the whole diaphragm thing, the naked thing, the showering together thing, the kissing and hickeys thing and yes, the denial thing. And I told her how some of this stuff some of the time might be exciting but giving it all to him every time feels like it's too much.
She listened very intently and once again told me that she just felt really good with him and that she wasn't ready to change that just yet and how she didn't want to. She held me and said I didn't have anything to worry about and she told me that Brad may get her body but that he would never have her heart as that was mine.
I was speechless at that. And I asked her what she was going to do and all she turned it on me - after she'd said that - and asked instead - what did I want her to do? She said she'd do anything that I wanted if I told her what it was I wanted.
I thought for a second or two - or was that a minute or two - it was long enough that she asked "well?" a second time. And I finally just said that I wanted her to be careful with "us" - I was going to say more but before I could think of how I wanted to say it, she leaned onto me and started kissing me and telling me over and over how she loved me and stuff like that.
There was some other stuff but that was most of it. We had some other talking today and we seemed to reach a happy place as we found time for a "quickie" this afternoon and, despite no teasing or mention of Brad or stuff like that, we both thoroughly enjoyed ourselves very much.
She went to bed a bit early and here I sit thinking of this whole situation and I"m not sure what to make of it. I do believe her when she says she loves me and wouldn't ever hurt us. But I also believe that she's already given a part of herself to Brad that cannot come back. That this part with Brad is sexual is very much a turn on for me. That he shares her body as easily as I do - that she screams with him as she does with me - that's all still a turn-on. But thinking of her clutching his back as she does mine and thinking of her screaming how she loves him - the feeling those thoughts give me are just so strange and different.
I will encourage her to seek out another partner - but I need to be sure I make her understand that it's not that I want her slutting herself out all over the place, but rather than I want her to have more experience so that she can know better what she wants and how far she wants it to go. I'm just not sure when I'll ask her - as I also don't want her to think I'm somehow jealous about Brad as I wouldn't want to drive anything they're doing underground to keep it away from my knowledge.
Anyway - that's a long enough update. I do still love her, maybe even more than before if that can be. Marys-pet, I'm sorry I never commented more on the things you wrote - some of what you wrote was very profound to me, perhaps there will be more time this week.
Perhaps it's time to start a new thread?
What came out was something that I'd sort of known or guessed but when I heard it from her it hit me that this may be more than I'd wanted and that maybe some of you were right.
She says it is nothing and it is something she had told me about long ago. After her divorce before me she saw a shrink for a while. One thing she said she learned about herself was that she could say "I love you" and have it be only for that moment or for that feeling - and she said it to me very early on during sex. She reminded me of this many times, how she'd said that to me possibly the first time we had sex together and how that made me feel so close to her as we fucked.
But it felt so different now when she told me she'd scream that out to Brad as they fucked. I told her I felt it was different - she was working that out with her shrink as she was dating guys and stuff - and I told her that saying she loved him just felt too much to me even if it was only about their sex together.
She really didn't want to hear any of it and she sort of said at one point that she could no more easily stop saying that than I could stop snoring at night!
I asked her if Brad said it back to her? She said she didn't think so but that she couldn't really say it one way or another.
I asked her honestly if she'd ever said it to him outside this peak of passion between them. And that was the other moment that hurt me. She didn't answer "no" right away and I knew that meant yes. She said it wasn't like that - and that it was still about the moment. I asked her if it was the moment or the man? She was very firm that it was just the moment and that's all. Over and over she said that.
I told her that this, on top of the intimacy level between them was just about too much. That was when she said "what do you expect? we're fucking each other, aren't we?" She said that it's been a few months now - she said she does have feelings for him. Not in any way that she'd leave me or is even thinking about such a thing but that she does feel strongly about Brad and not that she loves him, but - as she said several times "he is far more than a friend".
She then started to tell me more of what they talk about when they're not fucking. She said that she's talked with him about all sorts of problems he's having with his kids and his wife's way of taking care of them. They've talked about his problems at work and what she thinks he should do in certain situations. And she told me that she's shared some stuff with him about our lives and asked his opinions and such. And I guess I began to see more sides of their now, apparently, relationship that has come up.
We went on and on and she remains fairly adamant that this is not love between them, just intense friendship and that she always puts his family life above her desires. I told her that I felt like she'd shared so much of what used to just be ours together - and that it happened not just so quickly but more that it happened so easily for her to let him have those parts of her.
I told her how I felt about the whole diaphragm thing, the naked thing, the showering together thing, the kissing and hickeys thing and yes, the denial thing. And I told her how some of this stuff some of the time might be exciting but giving it all to him every time feels like it's too much.
She listened very intently and once again told me that she just felt really good with him and that she wasn't ready to change that just yet and how she didn't want to. She held me and said I didn't have anything to worry about and she told me that Brad may get her body but that he would never have her heart as that was mine.
I was speechless at that. And I asked her what she was going to do and all she turned it on me - after she'd said that - and asked instead - what did I want her to do? She said she'd do anything that I wanted if I told her what it was I wanted.
I thought for a second or two - or was that a minute or two - it was long enough that she asked "well?" a second time. And I finally just said that I wanted her to be careful with "us" - I was going to say more but before I could think of how I wanted to say it, she leaned onto me and started kissing me and telling me over and over how she loved me and stuff like that.
There was some other stuff but that was most of it. We had some other talking today and we seemed to reach a happy place as we found time for a "quickie" this afternoon and, despite no teasing or mention of Brad or stuff like that, we both thoroughly enjoyed ourselves very much.
She went to bed a bit early and here I sit thinking of this whole situation and I"m not sure what to make of it. I do believe her when she says she loves me and wouldn't ever hurt us. But I also believe that she's already given a part of herself to Brad that cannot come back. That this part with Brad is sexual is very much a turn on for me. That he shares her body as easily as I do - that she screams with him as she does with me - that's all still a turn-on. But thinking of her clutching his back as she does mine and thinking of her screaming how she loves him - the feeling those thoughts give me are just so strange and different.
I will encourage her to seek out another partner - but I need to be sure I make her understand that it's not that I want her slutting herself out all over the place, but rather than I want her to have more experience so that she can know better what she wants and how far she wants it to go. I'm just not sure when I'll ask her - as I also don't want her to think I'm somehow jealous about Brad as I wouldn't want to drive anything they're doing underground to keep it away from my knowledge.
Anyway - that's a long enough update. I do still love her, maybe even more than before if that can be. Marys-pet, I'm sorry I never commented more on the things you wrote - some of what you wrote was very profound to me, perhaps there will be more time this week.
Perhaps it's time to start a new thread?