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Roger Clemens
- Thread starterpimpology101
- Start date
Victoria and Dan said:
I don't see how his stats back that up -
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemero02.shtml
I'm not sure where this 'sudden' dominance you speak of occured but the stats sure don't support it. I wish the yankees had him when he truly was dominant, those years he pitched for the redsox(barf).
the stats tend to correlate with his alleged steroids use. he was tall and lean coming out of texas and his early years with boston. he has filled out alot over the years, which in itself is not necessarily abnormal. but he had a few down years in row and some injuries in boston at the end, Pedro Martinez was now the pitching star there, and when he went to Toronto where he started with this trainer guy...well he became all world again, and has kept it up into his later years. I said it before i say it again, I dont care what any of them took. its professional sports..i dont go to Roger Clemmons, Barry Bonds for morality..just entertainment. Id like to think clemmens didnt take anything, but I just dont know, and dont necessarily believe him either. but he is not guilty until proven otherwise. Bonds at least admitted he took steroids,,just claims he didnt know what they were.
Clemens as guilty as OJ
Huge Red Sox fan here. I don't know how anyone can look at pictures and video of Clemens during the 80's versus late 90's and beyond, and not see very significant changes in both his body and his head size. Natural aging? C'mon, get real. His performance level was sliding when Dan Duquette let him walk to Toronto. All of a sudden, he starts winning Cy Young awards again, and his fastball improves. Then there is the "roid rage" incident, where he throws the broken bat at Mike Piazza. Now we have his personal trainer, under threat of being jailed if he doesn't tell the truth, say that he personally injected Clemens with both steroids and HGH. Andy Pettite adds credibility to MacNamee's statements. So, for all you Clemens rump swabs, that want to believe him, and give him the benefit of the doubt, I say "If his old hat doesn't fit, you can't aquit."
Huge Red Sox fan here. I don't know how anyone can look at pictures and video of Clemens during the 80's versus late 90's and beyond, and not see very significant changes in both his body and his head size. Natural aging? C'mon, get real. His performance level was sliding when Dan Duquette let him walk to Toronto. All of a sudden, he starts winning Cy Young awards again, and his fastball improves. Then there is the "roid rage" incident, where he throws the broken bat at Mike Piazza. Now we have his personal trainer, under threat of being jailed if he doesn't tell the truth, say that he personally injected Clemens with both steroids and HGH. Andy Pettite adds credibility to MacNamee's statements. So, for all you Clemens rump swabs, that want to believe him, and give him the benefit of the doubt, I say "If his old hat doesn't fit, you can't aquit."
He supposedly took steroids in 1998. His era DROPPED from 2.06 in 97 to to 2.65 in 98.
He supposedly took steroids in 2001-2002. His era was 3.51 and 4.35 (worst of his career)
Guess facts are not what interest you guys,lol.
And Roger was famous for his temper when with Boston, who you kidding? lol
He supposedly took steroids in 2001-2002. His era was 3.51 and 4.35 (worst of his career)
Guess facts are not what interest you guys,lol.
And Roger was famous for his temper when with Boston, who you kidding? lol
Yearn4Mor said:
Andy Pettite admittted to doing HGH TWICE in his career. Not steroids. Meanwhile mcnamee claimed Andy did steroids. This only makes Mcnamee look like a liar not add credibilty.
Where do you get these 'fact's ' about his head size and bulk? Other than getting fatter, I don't see those changes in him when I look at pics.
Sometimes I think people just repeat things they hear without bothering to look into the facts themselves.
ro his 97 year with toronto was prob his best overall in his entire career. that was coming off what some called a mediocre prior couple years...its very possible..he just had a lull in his career, some injuries that slowed him down, ..and he picked it up when he went to a new setting...but thats when he met the trainer....his era dropping to 2.65 in 98 ...well come on in baseball terms that is still an incredible era..and far above the norm, maybe his 3rd-4th best season of his career ..he wasnt nearly as dominant when he came to the yankees for first couple years, but i think he was mostly fighting leg problems and wasnt himself...dont know if drugs had anything to do nor do i care. he was totally dominant for astros ..where pettitte did his hgh...some of that is accountable going to easier (for pitchers) national league...but also his age...not many pitchers..if none ever..were anywhere near as good as he was at his age....so there are def reasons to be suspicious.
clemmens pissed off people in boston, and left in bad way, he wasnt happy he wasnt the #1 guy anymore, and the boston press there is horrible., left toronto for yankees after they gave him his rebrith not to mention millions...he wasnt that good for yankees first 2 years..then turned it around...some say do to hgh??? ....and then left yankees to retire..only to unretire on them...then last yr held astros hostage and left them....its not as if his integrity is beyond reproach.
i give him benefit of doubt since nothing proved but i do think he prob did something at sometime in his career.
clemmens pissed off people in boston, and left in bad way, he wasnt happy he wasnt the #1 guy anymore, and the boston press there is horrible., left toronto for yankees after they gave him his rebrith not to mention millions...he wasnt that good for yankees first 2 years..then turned it around...some say do to hgh??? ....and then left yankees to retire..only to unretire on them...then last yr held astros hostage and left them....its not as if his integrity is beyond reproach.
i give him benefit of doubt since nothing proved but i do think he prob did something at sometime in his career.
His improvement in Toronto is pretty easy to explain. Going from one of the best hitters parks in baseball(fenway) to to one of the worst(Skydome),lol. He was in toronto in 97 and 98..
He did have a mediocre year in 1999, at least for him mediocre. Show me one pitcher that doesn't come to the yankees and have a bad first year really. It's one thing I dread about them trading for pitchers. I always figure they'll suck first year. I don't want Santana for that reason,lol Still would have been great for 90%. However the next year he won the Cy Young award with a relatively lousy 3.71 ERA.
The best part of this discussion is I've been ****** to research all kinds of stuff. Hitting/pitching ratings of ballparks, rogers' stats, even how well the yankees batted for him in 2001 (avg 6.7 runs per game). I'm going to really dazzle the boys wiht my baseball knowledge now,lol. I already know more than most men about the yankees as it is,lol.
I live for baseball season. Well, right after sex and shopping anyway.
He did have a mediocre year in 1999, at least for him mediocre. Show me one pitcher that doesn't come to the yankees and have a bad first year really. It's one thing I dread about them trading for pitchers. I always figure they'll suck first year. I don't want Santana for that reason,lol Still would have been great for 90%. However the next year he won the Cy Young award with a relatively lousy 3.71 ERA.
The best part of this discussion is I've been ****** to research all kinds of stuff. Hitting/pitching ratings of ballparks, rogers' stats, even how well the yankees batted for him in 2001 (avg 6.7 runs per game). I'm going to really dazzle the boys wiht my baseball knowledge now,lol. I already know more than most men about the yankees as it is,lol.
I live for baseball season. Well, right after sex and shopping anyway.
nothing sexier than a hot babe who loves sports too!
ro stats can be deceiving. fyi..toronto is not a bad hitters park...clemmens career stats can be debated for both sides of the drug debate. his personality is not without reproach. he has done many good things for charity and is family man, but he is also a mercinary with huge ego...he has burned britches in boston, NY, Houston, prob toronto also. that is why many people dont believe him. Its too bad cause he is arguably one of top 5 pitchers ever. same with bonds but he has always been such an asshole people want to hate on him every chance they get, and he gives people many opportunities.
ro stats can be deceiving. fyi..toronto is not a bad hitters park...clemmens career stats can be debated for both sides of the drug debate. his personality is not without reproach. he has done many good things for charity and is family man, but he is also a mercinary with huge ego...he has burned britches in boston, NY, Houston, prob toronto also. that is why many people dont believe him. Its too bad cause he is arguably one of top 5 pitchers ever. same with bonds but he has always been such an asshole people want to hate on him every chance they get, and he gives people many opportunities.
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Get a grip, people, baseball, football, the Olympics are dirty. Meaning there are multiple athletes who have been taking anabolic cocktails to enhance their performance. My bet is Clemens cheated, like Bonds, Sosa, and Mcguire. I will give Clemens one caveat; I wasn't in the room when his butt turned into a pin cushion, but I would bet the lives of all my future children that he used the juice.
It's the same rationale that pro bodybuilders use...steroids, alone won't make you win a Mr. Olympia title, without proper diet and a serious weight lifting regimen. But any pro bodybuilder will tell you outright there's no way you can win a bodybuilding championship without going on the juice.
Traditional pro sports is a different game. Most pro athletes take steriods to give them a competitive edge or extend their careers. That's wny guys like Bonds and Clemens can rationalize their drug use, they were already hall of famers before steriods. But when a genuinely gifted athlete starts juicing, he warps the game. Bonds never tracked throughout his career as the greatest power hitter in the history of the game. Roger CLemens was supposed to be on the decline when he was traded to the Blue Jays, not about to win a World Series and a couple Cy Youngs.
But trust me, like Marion Jones, Roger is in denial. No, he probably didn't use a huge amount of steriods, and probably used it on and off the last 4-5 years and worked his ass off. BUt like a pro bodybuilder, you can't separate the steroids from the extraordinary performance he experienced late in his career.
It's like when an A student gets caught cheating on a test. Everyone knows the kid is smart, so why did he cheat this time? Defective character and insecurity, b/c he heard that someone else in has class was cheating too.
What pissed me is that guys like Clemens and Bonds are shitting on the history of the game. Can you imagine Sandy Kofax or Bob Gibson if they were juicing? Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron?
And Clemens trainer didn't have immunity, he squealed, like most people do when interviewed by the feds, b/c he didn't know what info they had on him. Get caught lying, you go to prison.
My last steroid tip of the day. MArion Jones was bad, but go google Florence Griffith Joyner, the WR holder in the 100 meter dash, now dead.
It's the same rationale that pro bodybuilders use...steroids, alone won't make you win a Mr. Olympia title, without proper diet and a serious weight lifting regimen. But any pro bodybuilder will tell you outright there's no way you can win a bodybuilding championship without going on the juice.
Traditional pro sports is a different game. Most pro athletes take steriods to give them a competitive edge or extend their careers. That's wny guys like Bonds and Clemens can rationalize their drug use, they were already hall of famers before steriods. But when a genuinely gifted athlete starts juicing, he warps the game. Bonds never tracked throughout his career as the greatest power hitter in the history of the game. Roger CLemens was supposed to be on the decline when he was traded to the Blue Jays, not about to win a World Series and a couple Cy Youngs.
But trust me, like Marion Jones, Roger is in denial. No, he probably didn't use a huge amount of steriods, and probably used it on and off the last 4-5 years and worked his ass off. BUt like a pro bodybuilder, you can't separate the steroids from the extraordinary performance he experienced late in his career.
It's like when an A student gets caught cheating on a test. Everyone knows the kid is smart, so why did he cheat this time? Defective character and insecurity, b/c he heard that someone else in has class was cheating too.
What pissed me is that guys like Clemens and Bonds are shitting on the history of the game. Can you imagine Sandy Kofax or Bob Gibson if they were juicing? Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron?
And Clemens trainer didn't have immunity, he squealed, like most people do when interviewed by the feds, b/c he didn't know what info they had on him. Get caught lying, you go to prison.
My last steroid tip of the day. MArion Jones was bad, but go google Florence Griffith Joyner, the WR holder in the 100 meter dash, now dead.
bigstink9 said:
From MLB regarding Mcnamee -
"Brian McNamee, the former personal trainer who accused the seven-time Cy Young Award winner of using performance-enhancing drugs, reached an agreement with San Francisco-based federal prosecutors last year that he would not be charged with a crime as long as his statements were truthful. McNamee's claims were a central part of last month's Mitchell Report on drugs in baseball. "
1/17/2008
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080117&content_id=2349961&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Looks like immunity to me.
Will this is comming to the wire I heard them say last night one of the two or going to prison for lying to them on capital hill. Why the hell wasn't clinton in prison for lying his ass off to capital hill this is really a damn waste of tax payers money fucking with this as who can tell a bigger lie then someone who works on capital hill. Politics running the sports how the hell can they do that when they can't even run education or medical care in the country. A bunch of sorry asses in my book.
i just stated this in sports thread but as a pers trainer...i have seen very few females ..post childbirth..let alone 4 who were able to achieve the type of definition Debbie Clemmons has ..naturally...not that it cannot be done naturally for it can...its just rare as you woman know ...with all the changes you go through hormonally and physically during pregancy birth... if you have 1 kid very young, say by time you are 23 then the chances of youre body recovering are much greater..but 4 kids...hmmmm?
i cant wait till Wed..hopefully shortlythereafter...we can move on and Spring training will taake over and Clemmons and Mcnamee and the Mitchell report will go away...
yea ok so i'm a bit idealistic
i cant wait till Wed..hopefully shortlythereafter...we can move on and Spring training will taake over and Clemmons and Mcnamee and the Mitchell report will go away...
yea ok so i'm a bit idealistic
also where is the outcry for Actors taking the shit...come on Brad Pitt def took stuff before the Troy movie...these guys/gals. gain much weight and lose and change there looks so much for different movies/roles...nobody cares?
i see there will be some thing on some show..maybe 60 min...about many woman taking HGH now to improve there body looks....you certainly dont need to be a athlete to benefit from these drugs...and God knows how this soiciety is always looking for the miracle PILL for this and that....
i see there will be some thing on some show..maybe 60 min...about many woman taking HGH now to improve there body looks....you certainly dont need to be a athlete to benefit from these drugs...and God knows how this soiciety is always looking for the miracle PILL for this and that....
Sylvester Stallone just was on the Howard Stern show saying he took HGH for the latest Rambo movie and that it has positive effects for someone his age, it's a good drug in that regard.
But that has nothing to do with Roger Clemens.
I don't really care that Roger Clemens took Human Growth Hormone a few times to expedite his recovery times late in his career... he was already the best pitcher of this generation prior to that. Frankly, he was pitching against a bunch of juiced up batters anyhow, he was only keeping pace with the rest of the chemically enhanced.
It does bother me that he has chosen to do everything to cover up this transgression. And it bothers me that his dopey fans continue to believe every word he says.
One of either Brian McNamee or Roger Clemens will go to jail for lying under oath to the feds. It makes no sense to me why McNamee would lie and go to jail... but I understand why Roger Clemens would take that risk.
One little nuance that I've noticed in the latest Clemens denials (and maybe this means nothing), is that Clemens and his lawyers say Roger never took "Growth Hormone"... they leave out the word "Human"... listen closely to what they say in the next little while. When you're up against the feds and there are potential purgery charges on the line you have to choose your words very carefully... if your words can have different meanings, it might help beat charges down the line.
But that has nothing to do with Roger Clemens.
I don't really care that Roger Clemens took Human Growth Hormone a few times to expedite his recovery times late in his career... he was already the best pitcher of this generation prior to that. Frankly, he was pitching against a bunch of juiced up batters anyhow, he was only keeping pace with the rest of the chemically enhanced.
It does bother me that he has chosen to do everything to cover up this transgression. And it bothers me that his dopey fans continue to believe every word he says.
One of either Brian McNamee or Roger Clemens will go to jail for lying under oath to the feds. It makes no sense to me why McNamee would lie and go to jail... but I understand why Roger Clemens would take that risk.
One little nuance that I've noticed in the latest Clemens denials (and maybe this means nothing), is that Clemens and his lawyers say Roger never took "Growth Hormone"... they leave out the word "Human"... listen closely to what they say in the next little while. When you're up against the feds and there are potential purgery charges on the line you have to choose your words very carefully... if your words can have different meanings, it might help beat charges down the line.
not a chance in hell clemens gonna end up in jail nor will macamee this crap gonna blow over after wed for a while until the Bonds trial, and they wont prove or disprove anything.
i also stated i dont care bout the steroid use for professionals ....but it def is a problem with teens and now woman too and others in general population.
lets just PLAY BALL
i also stated i dont care bout the steroid use for professionals ....but it def is a problem with teens and now woman too and others in general population.
lets just PLAY BALL
HGH will flow around your bloodstream if you use these new brain entrainment CDs.
They slow your brain speed down to 1-3 cyces per second which is called DELTA waves, and your body thinks it is asleep and releases HGH to repair your muscles and slow down aging process. Some people even lose their grey hair and original color comes back.
The CDs cost around $30.
They slow your brain speed down to 1-3 cyces per second which is called DELTA waves, and your body thinks it is asleep and releases HGH to repair your muscles and slow down aging process. Some people even lose their grey hair and original color comes back.
The CDs cost around $30.
I agree play ball but Pooch I think all the fans can thank Clemens for a turn upside down world in baseball as I think this is the case that will start all kinds of shit for the players and owners. I agree with the issue with the movie stars also what is right for one should be right for everyone.Pooch said:
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