New Year, New Thread

[azsurfer77]

STB: I have been away for three weeks and after catching up, was stunned to read your entry yesterday. My sympathies on your predicament.

I have followed several cuckolding websites(SW, OHW, CM), and done quite a bit of reading for several years, fascinated at the psychology of cuckolding. It appears to

have quite a spectrum of relationships: from the hotwife/shared wife, to the dominant wife who cuts off all sex with the cuckold. One website mentions that a good

cuckoldress does not humiliate her cuckold, and Sue seemed to follow that mold. She had touched that aspect a little bit during her time with Don, but it wasn't in

her comfort zone, and she seemed to respect you too much to let Don become her dominant at that time.

You two had seemed to settle into a role near the more benevolent end of the spectrum. You enjoyed Sue having lovers. You allowed Sue to be shared at times, and

wanted to participate, or at least know what she was experiencing. You had also relaxed somewhat and allowed Sue to go off and have her lovers alone, at both their

home, and on several trips away. You seemed to thrive on the knowledge of what Sue was doing, and the denial she was providing you. However, you still maintained a

sexual connection, be it infrequent sexual/penetrative sex, moving into semi-denial with the use of condoms, and your Wednesday night ritual of Sue watching you

masturbate. You had penetrative sex on average nearly once a week, so you weren't being totally cut off.( you were actually doing quite well)

I was somewhat worried when I kept hearing you repeat during your thread, that Sue was thrilled whenever you came in a condom, or by masturbating, that your "semen was

not inside her vagina". It seemed to be a cruel stab, but with your continued explanation of the love and intimacy you and Sue shared, outside of sex, I had to wonder

if Sue had learned enough to play to your "big head", to enhance your desire to be a "beta" and sexual denial. You two certainly seemed to talk through all of the

issues fairly well.

With her latest revelation: the "truth" being that she has found better lovers, and no longer wants any sex from you, is quite a reversal from your story. She has now

swung the relationship to the other end of the spectrum, cutting you off and leaving you with just masturbation, and your imagination of Sue with her lovers, to fuel

your libido. This is true denial. I don't get the feeling from your tale that this is what you wanted, as you feel you have some needs that have to be met to enjoy

this type of relationship. February was a big example. You can enjoy Sue having Paul for the entire weekend, and watching them fuck and play together, but you wanted

some reconnection afterward. When it wasn't forthcoming, there was a fracture in the relationship that you and Sue spent several weeks mending.

My thoughts now though have turned dark. Sue may back up again and start having sex/penetrative sex/bare sex with you to resolve this issue, but now you will have

another concern in the back of your mind. Sue has expressed her "truth" about not wanting sex with you. She has compromised your trust, and thrown the relationship

into turmoil. If Sue reverses course on this new "truth" you will always face the question: is Sue having sex with me because she loves me and wants sex with me, or

is she giving me a "mercy-fuck" so that she can resume her relationship with her lover?

You and Sue have quite a bit of fence mending to get over this issue. You need to repair the compromise of your trust, and be satisfied that you know what Sue's real

intentions are before you can proceed.

I have followed your thread on this site, and know you were once on OHW (although you appear to have asked to be removed, including all of your posts as a search finds

no reference to you anymore). Can you tell us what sites you do use, so we can get other opinions from people who respond to you. Also, do you know of any sites Sue

may be using, that we may see her side of the story.

 

[Knk069]

Steve, it seems like it has been a while since the three of you have been together. Other than the kids being back recently, it seems that Sue (or Paul) may be trying to keep distance between you and Paul. My concern is that he may be pushing for a deeper commitment from Sue. It might be time for the three of you to get together and you can see if his previous 'I don't want to come between the two of you' statements are still true.

 

[SoonToBe]

So, I knew that was going to generate a lot of response and I also knew that I wanted to give Sue and I some time to talk more.

Yes, I'm hurt but more from her not telling me how she felt than how she feels, not sure if that makes any sense. She's said a thousand times till Sunday already how she didn't want to hurt me but that my continued asking about it made her realize she needed to accept what she's feeling too and not so much throw it in my face but at least tell me about it.

I don't know what I feel right now. Peak, you seemed to have the most cogent reply of everyone. Some of what you wrote already came up in our discussions. The thing she's explained is that when we have had sex, she's not faking any of it. Matter of fact she giggled when she said it, that the sex between us is always good and that she says is part of her own confusion on it. So that part has always been real for us as well as the physical reconnection because while she said she doesn't want it with me, at the same time she also said that she knows that we both need it at times (her too). She insists that she has no desire to leave me or change anything, well, anything other than our sexual relationship. We talked about Robert too and she admits she has similar feelings but that Paul doesn't want anything more than what they have now - she even admitted this that "he just likes to fuck me mainly" - and she insists that her feelings for him are mainly physical and that she doesn't have the same sort of budding emotional desires that she admitted about Robert.

She asked me what I felt and was thinking. I told her I was hurt by it all but as we talked, as I said, I came to feel that it was her not telling me everything that hurt much more than anything else. She said she became aware of how she felt earlier this year, the ski-trip and the aftermath made her realize that she had really not wanted to have sex with me that week after we got back and she wasn't sure of what she was feeling or how to explain or tell it to me yet. But she asked me - except for that - how was I feeling and what was I thinking. I told her honestly that I thought this was coming and that her request for more condom use and less sex was a step towards it. And it felt good to tell her what she'd said to me a while back - that I thought if it happened slowly and we took steps towards it, that when it did happen, that it wouldn't be such a big shock. But I then told her that I was still thinking it was further off and I told her that in my head I'd thought it would be something that would evolve over the next year or two.

So that led to her laughing a bit about what I was thinking which alludes to what others have posted here - that would mean she'd have been with Paul for almost 4 years by then and she looked at me and said that I must feel okay about Paul to see that far into the future and that she was sorry for jumping the gun but again pointed that it was my insistence on her telling me everything.

It was kind of weird because she looked at me and said "you knew what I was going to tell you didn't you?". And then she said it again, that she feels this is what I wanted when I told her that I wanted to be the beta. She reminded me that I told her I wanted this very thing - for her to want him to fulfill her sexual needs instead of me - and she asked me if it was something I still felt. I admit I nodded yes and when she saw that she asked me if this was too much or too far in listening to what I'd wanted?

Now I know I'm going to get flamed right now but I looked at her and I told her I was scared. I told her I was scared that I didn't know what I wanted. I told her that I didn't want to lose her - and she immediately replied that I wouldn't "no matter what". She held my hands and told me I could tell her. I think I even had a tear in my eye and I honestly struggled with what I wanted to say - but as I said, I'm sure I'm going to get flamed when I say that I told her that it turned me on to think about it. She held me and told me to just talk and let it all out and say what it was that was in my head. So I did. I told her how I couldn't live without her and how I needed her - and as she encouraged me - I also let myself start to talk about everything.

I don't know if it was as cathartic as it felt at the time but I told her that it turned me on to think about her wanting just Paul and how I may have to wait to have sex with her again at some point. She didn't respond much but encouraged me. I don't know if I could repeat it again to her but I know that I told her that I loved the idea of her wanting him instead of me and that it turned me on what she'd asked about condoms. I told her what I'd said earlier that I had thought this was going to happen and I admitted that it turned me on and that I'd long masturbated to the thoughts of her pussy being only for him. But I also told her I was scared at that step and what it meant for us and what it would mean in general. And I also told her that I still have these, easing but lingering, concerns at how this was making me feel as a man vs. a cuckold.

She told me that she had many of the same feelings and then reminded me that we are a strong couple because of just that - that the same things turn us both on as it has been forever. There was something very true about that and in that moment it made me realize that in many ways, everything we'd done so far we'd done as a couple. Yes, she may have pushed things as so did the guys she was with, but it always felt like something we were doing together. She said that I should have known that because of that - and that's the way it's been forever. I willingly learned to like and enjoy things she was into and the same for her in things that I was into - so in many ways - her own feelings mirrored mine. And it made me realize it was directly related to what she'd long said to me, that she likes the same things as I do, just from her own point of view.

I don't know how to explain it, but sharing that discussion and realizing that her desires with Paul are, in many ways, my own desires for her with Paul - made me realize I don't necessarily need to be scared. But it was also how she expressed it to me, that I don't think she realized that I had some of these same feelings, that surprised her in a way. It didn't change how either of us felt at the moment but it did change how I felt inside.

We haven't reached any decisions - and she's going to see Paul this evening when our daughter is at work. I didn't see any reason for her not to, nothing's going to change between now and then and to be honest, it turned me on that she'll tease me about it later tonight.

No, the real thing that's happened is that it's making me realize that I need to be honest with myself. For all of my trepidations, it turns me on incredibly to think about accepting her request regarding condoms. I am not saying that I never want to feel her pussy bare again but I am trying to get myself to accept that I do want to try it - I do want the feeling of it being for real - that it's no longer an option and no longer something I should think or wonder about. I have told her before but the thought of her only having Paul's semen in her (unlikely but possibly forever) is a thought that makes me crazy with arousal and yes, makes me want to say yes.

I think what scares me is what I really do want to experience. I know it's not possible but it makes me feel very self-******* when I know that had she become pregnant from a lover that I likely would have been turned on by it - it just kind of scares me in a crazy way almost as crazy as it makes me to be aroused by that thought. So, it's just as almost upsetting and yet incredibly arousing to feel turned on by her admitting she is thinking of just wanting Paul sexually. I guess it's like walking on the edge of a cliff - as long as she holds onto my hand, it's fun to lean out over the edge. I think I'm scared to say so.

What's more important is that its out in the open now and as she agreed and admitted, it's not something we need to decide now, just something that is now something we need to talk about.

One thing - I didn't mention it yet intentionally - is that through all of this she's said that we still need to reconnect physically and that means, as she put it, that "we'll still fuck a few times baby" and she said "that's not negotiable". I know what she means, she didn't need to explain any further. Maybe that's what's also in the back of my mind reassuring me that it might be okay to say yes - to walk leaning off the cliff - because there will be those times when we will reconnect. And I already know how I'm going to feel those times. Is that enough? Will it work? Will it help or will it make things worse? I don't know but I think I'll find out more tonight.

She's apologized enough that I am past the hurt of her not telling me sooner about what she's feeling, now, in a way, I feel a desire or almost a need to resolve it now and get everything out in the open.

 

[Knk069]

Great update Steve. I'm glad you are getting it sorted out. One thing that troubles me is her frequent statements that she has "feelings" for Paul spoke in the context of emotional feelings. Yet in this post she is saying she only has sexual feelings. You may need to pin her down on the exact nature of them. It seems to shift based on your level of anxiety.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
I understand that this is your thread and your are posting your feelings and concerns , but your response to all the alarm raised by Sue’s revelations was full of your responses and reacts and pretty thin on Sue’s feelings and motivations. I hope she said far more than you posted because if you gave us what you got, you are still very much in the dark about what is actually behind her actions in the past and her desires for the future. Further, you cannot make any rational conclusions from it. Of course, neither can we.

Just a few glaring holes. Sue says sex with you (can I assume she regards this as making love as well) is good, that she needs it, but that she doesn’t want it and clearly hasn’t for some time. WHY?

Sue’s feeling for Paul are ‘mainly’ physical. That bit you knew, it’s the bits that are more than physical you need to understand. Equally Paul likes to fuck her, ‘mainly’. What else is there? Is it a growing thing, a threat?

Maybe you have talked more about Robert and it was clear at the time how deeply Sue felt about him. You never met him and Sue’s interactions with him always therefore excluded you. Is Sue trying to recreate her feelings at the time by excluding you again now? Does she feel able to ‘let go’ more when she is at his place or away? All this is more than fucking whatever she says.

Your recollections of your comments to her reveal than you seem to have been totally honest about your true feelings and concerns. Worryingly for me they also suggest that there was a degree of excitement at your possible future. Are you sure your conclusions and statements were not influenced unduly by your sexual excitement? Sue’s certainly were not, don’t forget. Are you certain that you now know the true extent of Sue’s thinking over the last few years and her plans going forward? It really doesn’t feel so from your comments. More that you want to believe her and are willing to overlook the inconsistencies and deviations.

Letting her go to him today in my view was a mistake. You are telling Sue that none of it matters before you truly know the full extent and impact of it. I am amazed that Sue did not choose to try to make love with you this week. Clearly nothing for you over the weekend and very little since her weekend away really. She seems confident that her desires will prevail without fully understanding the underlying damage that remains. If nothing else, this seems an unloving gesture at a time when loving reassurance seems more appropriate.

I still think you should call a time out until you have both sorted this out. Of necessity this also sends a message to Paul that you take priority at times like this, however Sue chooses to explain it privately to him.

It is clear in spite of all the danger signs that you want to proceed down Sue’s overall track. I said before that Sue needs to learn as much about how to be a loving and supportive Alpha as you do about how to establish, negotiate and keep limits as a Sub. This seems to be an ideal time to have this conversation as equal adults where you talk about her mistakes, what she has learnt and your failings and what you have learnt about limits and boundaries. Insist that the time out stands until these are mutually agreed and in place.

It’s still a shaky work in progress. Good luck.

 

[raksdeer]

Good luck of course. You are going to need it. LOL

 

[Pnisnvnh]

Steve sounds like you are getting yourself ready to accept condom only 99% of the time and also limited sex with Sue, congrats on that. Sounds like the classic phase out. As I told you before in PM my wife K and I have been members in a HW/Cuck group for 15+ yrs.
When we first joined there was only 8 couples in it and it slowly grew to 30+ over the years but in the last 2-3 years it ballooned up to over 120 couples now. K and I don’t know every couple but I can say that at least 2/3 to maybe as high as ¾ of the cucks in the group are fully cut off.
I’ve seen many a time the phase out happen. Starts with condoms only for the cuck then limit sex with his wife. The wife would encourage him to masturbate while slowly reducing sex with him over time. Her sex would increase with others while it reduces with her cuck and his masturbation increases all over time until he finally realizes that its been months since he’s had sex with her and that’s when she tells him he is cut off. Which since it been months for him makes it easier to accept it.

 

[Pnisnvnh]

Oh the reason why I said that is because on one your post long time ago you talked about being cut off and Sue said if it happens it will happen over time and in a way that you both will be happy with and it would just end up happening not be something you two would plan or just say but it would just happen all on its own. Thats not the true quote of what you said but the jist of it.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Steve,

As always you have published yet another great update.

Recently I have refrained from posting directly on your thread as I disagree with the approach some others take in your replies to you. Some of these people here seem as if they would prefer that you only do what gets them off, what excites them, what does not make them uncomfortable and they truly do not seem to be concerned with what actually works best for you and Sue. While everyone on this thread may not agree with you, they all should respect you for continuing to be so open about your experiences and feelings.

As some of us have always said, honest and open communication is always the key even if what is being said is not always what the other person would like to hear. Only you and Sue know what is best for each of you individually and as a couple. Not every couple survives the transition from having a house full of kids into being the empty nester stage of life, so you and Sue are doing something that many fail to do, as a couple you seem to have common goals in and out of the bedroom, your friends, your lovers even if not having bare intercourse, you have found ways continue to move forward as couple. Not every couple can say the same. You may also find those that judge you from a distance either truly have no “real” experience in the lifestyle or they have had a bad experience.

No matter how much you may feel flamed on this thread, you should do what is best for you both (you & Sue) and those that flame you should show you some respect to you for taking the time out of your busy life to continue share some insight into your life experiences with all of us. As to Sue’s possibly of developing some sort of feelings for Paul, this is always a general risk no matter the approach to this lifestyle. There are women out there that cannot truly enjoy sex without having some sorts of feelings and or connection to the other person she is having sexual relations with.

As long as you and Sue are continuing to communicate openly as you have described, only you two will know the next best steps/directions in your journey as a couple.

 

[far2easy]

^ couldn't agree more!

 

[azsurfer77]

Keep communicating: talking and listening to each other. Your entry from the other day seemed more dire than your last reply. It appears Sue and you are moving to the next level of cuckolding, and as long as you both are comfortable with it, you will enjoy it. Just be honest with each other, listen and think before replying, and make sure both of you are comfortable with your path.

As I have pointed out before, you still have a good amount of sex with Sue, albeit with condoms for penetrative sex, so you seem to keep a good balance of cuckolding, and re-connection sex.

 

[SoonToBe]

AZ - it hasn't been an easy few days here talking about this stuff. Sorry for sounding dire, more concerned than anything.

Our talk on Wednesday night and again last night surrounded what I was expecting/wanting to happen over time as Sue pointedly asked me "what did you think was going to happen?" Between my own "coming out" as that is how Sue and I feel it felt, with my beta desires, coupled with as she put it "4+ years of great sex, first with Robert and now with Paul". But she added on that it's now been years where her lovers have been quite capable and that it's now been at least 4 years where she's been with her lover(s) far more than with me, and on top of that she made it a point on Wednesday night to remind me that Paul and Robert before were both able to cum at least twice in a night and Sue told me several times to think about how she has been feeling with such virile lovers and she reminded me that the last times she spent the night with Paul, that he fucked her 3 times in not much more than an overnight visit.

So - I think for me, the biggest thing is to accept that my beta-desires have been fulfilled and that she has done just as I asked - so as she put it "what did I expect would happen" is I guess "this".

I know there's a lot more in her head that she's now just coming to terms with, one of which I guess is the official demotion of me sexually.

The thing is, for as concerned as I am about it all, at the same time, it almost feels as if this is what is supposed to happen. As Pnis and others said, maybe for a cuck who accepts his beta-wishes, that this is the outcome?

For me, I still believe what she says that it's mainly physical. I can accept that and accept that she's not lying about that part. I guess I can only be hoping she is being honest about the emotional parts. I haven't re-read what others posted in the past 2 days - not up for it - not right now.

 

[peakmb]

Steve,
You sound defeated and demoralised more than accepting to me. No consequence of coming out to beta desires is inevitable. Pnis and others may see them so for themselves, which is fine but that doesn’t mean you have to follow that route. Yes, you have jointly created a situation where Sue has enjoyed great sex with others. That does not imply less joy for you, Sue has shown that she is capable, even desirous of extended sex play with you and your oral skills and additional love must make up for sheer fire power on days when she is not seeing her lover. If that is what you both want.

You have suffered a big shock to your emotional system. One that frankly deserves some tender loving care to recover from. Whichever way you jointly decide to proceed, you deserve some time out to reconnect emotionally at least. How you proceed is entirely up to you both and I am not trying to suggest a path but I do think you should proceed down whichever route you decide feeling emotionally strong and well connected to your wife. It doesn’t look like you are either at the moment.

 

[raksdeer]

Don't beat your head against wall Peak. STB was and continues to remain convinced of Sue's honest and truthfulness despite what she has said and done. None of us are there. If he thinks it's ok, it must be. Who knows STB might turn out to be a bigger cuck than squirmy or pnis. He has already surpassed rick of rick and Brenda fame.And we all enjoy cuck stories..that's why we come here..no?

We are waiting for Custer to cheer STB on hos path. Don't worry Custer, this time you will be received openly.

 

[SoonToBe]

Well, we aren't rushing into anything right now, she's agreed to keeping things the same for now even if I know that some of her actions with me aren't necessarily truly mutual, I think her knowing how I am feeling and understanding my anxiety is what I need most now. I know that Raks and others feel she's not being honest with me and that there's more than she is telling me about regarding her feelings towards Paul. A part of me knows that is likely true, I'm not totally stupid or blind to it, I know that a lot more than the weather has been talked about and shared between them. I also know that I'm partly turned on by that, that they've shared some of what was only mine before is a huge turn on to me. And yes, I'm likely turning a blind-eye to that she likely has feelings for him that go beyond just the physical. She's long said that what happens between her legs is different than what happens in her heart, but I know that a part of that is also likely his now too.

But at the same time, there is this honesty and sense of just openness and sincerity to what she says to me that really does disarm me if it's true and for real.

 

[Guhunkadorn]

Your wise to be concerned and if you where giddy and excited then I for one would then be quite concerned for you. As it is I'm not that concerned for you because you both seem to understand that much communication, understanding and love in in order and your both acting accordingly.............it's really an amazing journey your on and I think you've entered this new phase as well as one can.
Embrace your much more permanent beta status and look forward to those once or twice a year 'non-negotiable' bareback experiences.....when they happen I doubt you'll last 60 seconds.....could be wrong though, either way I look forward to reading about it.
Best of luck.

 

[raksdeer]

STB, as
I have said before what draws me to this thread is uniqueness of your relationship that you enjoyed with Sue. The pleasure that you took in her journey, the way you supported her adventure and the traits of loving wife Sue exhibited. I would hate to say that some of what I had predicted has already come true in worst sense. Even in your last post you have admitted that he does have a place in her heart and mind you it's exclusive. Now you can't take or reoccupy that place. May be you don't want to. May be this fuels your arousal further. But I hope STB that you are cautious - first it is weekend hubby, then it is long period denials, then condom only sex and now it is progressing towards no sex. Sue doesn't wants it with you. If she is as compassionate towards your needs, i wonder how she can deny sex or for that matter any other need to the man she says she loves. Anyway to each his own. I hope you don't grow apart and then one day when you ask why she has been hiding her feelings and why she has been lying to you, she says ' what did you expect to happen?'.

Once again I implore you to think hard, atleast on lines suggested by Peak and refrain from becoming a Pnis or Squirmy. I know you wouldn't enjoy serving your wife and her bull.

 

[raksdeer]

STB, as I have said before what draws me to this thread is uniqueness of your relationship that you enjoyed with Sue. The pleasure that you took in her journey, the way you supported her adventure and the traits of loving wife Sue exhibited. I would hate to say that some of what I had predicted has already come true in worst sense. Even in your last post you have admitted that he does have a place in her heart and mind you it's exclusive. Now you can't take or reoccupy that place. May be you don't want to. May be this fuels your arousal further. But I hope STB that you are cautious - first it is weekend hubby, then it is long period denials, then condom only sex and now it is progressing towards no sex. Sue doesn't wants it with you. If she is as compassionate towards your needs, i wonder how she can deny sex or for that matter any other need to the man she says she loves. Anyway to each his own. I hope you don't grow apart and then one day when you ask why she has been hiding her feelings and why she has been lying to you, she says ' what did you expect to happen?'.

 

[SquirmingSub]

Sometimes it is amazing how some do not know how to be supportive and also be non-judgmental of choices made by consenting adults.

 

[raksdeer]

Squirm, I understand that your comment refers to me. But aren't you getting judgemental too?

Anyway, that's not the point. Just answer me these simple questions based on STB's narrative.

1. Do you think cuckolding relationships are based on complete trust, openness and communication?
2. Do you think Sue has been completely honest with STB?
3. Do you think any extreme step in cuckolding should be conscious choice of both partners as against one of them trying to push the other?
4. Should one of the partners go ahead with his / her thoughts even when the other partner is aprehensive about it?
5. "Go and live with Paul" was STB's reaction when Sue opened to him. Shouldn't it serve as hint to Sue as to what STB is comfortable with?
6. Also its not about Condom only sex. As illogical as it sounds ( even to STB) the "obligation" problem still persists and Sue doesn't wants to have sex with STB and not only not right now but ever!!!!!!
6. Finally why the hurry to deny? What is the emergency? Why the push?

If you still think my advice to STB is misplaced or misinformed, please tell me why?

Don't take it otherwise Squirm. You have mentioned this earlier and you mention it yet again that I don't respect people opting for a cuckold lifestyle. That's completely wrong Squirm. If I did not I too would not spend time here writing and explaining comments.

Cheers (forgive typos, because I use my cell to type comments)