Great update STB. See this is what is worrying. She is again taking you ( not that you are offering any resistance) the way that you were earlier. And, she uses your intimate moments to coax you into it. Sounds manipulative. And why she should want her time with Paul to be special at your cost is beyond me. These, IMHO, are not signs of a loving cuckoldress.
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Steve,
I think Raks makes a good point and I would like to expand on why I think I agree you again seem to be heading into a danger zone with Sue.
Take yourself back a few months. You exploded (by your recent standards) over the lack of apparent respect and loving that Sue was exhibiting. You were not wrong and Sue saw it and amended her actions. It was her that initiated bareback sex, not you. Even then I don’t think you would have done that, you were so tied up on what your then current record of denial was. I remain convinced though that this was the only action Sue could take that could fix things and she used the treatment several times but it now seems only until she was convinced you had returned to your previously submissive self.
It is again worth remembering how you both currently regard bareback sex. You still seem to put top of your list but the extra buzz you get from its denial, combined with Sue’s constant teasing about how you don’t get it and Paul does all the time means that condom sex for you is almost as good. I suspect even better on a few days when the angst is high. For Sue, she says she now gets a buzz from knowing she denies you but for her bareback sex remains by far the best sex she has, with Paul or you, and she seems only able to get to her highest orgasmic state while engaged in it. Your own feeling constantly blind you to this simple fact.
Sue denies herself her best orgasms when she has sex with you with a condom. Yet she is now proposing a future where this is a permanent state. I know how much this actually excites you, but look at this from Sue’s perspective for a moment. Why would she regard this as a desirable outcome? As part of a short term game to get your juices running, fine, but where is the benefit for her in extending it for far longer? The only logical answer is not good, it is that she no longer finds sex with you exciting enough so needs to limit it in some way to really enjoy it elsewhere. By exploiting your fetish, she can do this easily. This is now the third time in two years she has tried to extend it in this way. Each time previously you have finally cracked and stopped it happening. You need to do so again. It needs to stay a game, not a way of life.
Sue likes sex for sustained periods and multiple times. You have witnessed this many times now with Paul and she has told of others. Last weekend with Paul it was five times, and the last one only for her. Coming that often, Paul would have been able to last a long time between orgasms, their sex could have lasted for hours. That is what Sue loves. With you she bottles you up all week (or longer) so that by the time you roll a condom on and finally penetrate her you come almost immediately by comparison. You don’t even seem to get her really horny first by giving her oral (as Paul does), or extend her pleasure by doing so afterwards. The contrast is huge. Is this really all she wants from you, or is this really all you can now deliver?
Sue restarted all this extra denial stuff a few weeks ago on the pretext of needing to get a more sustained effort with Paul in before the summer started and at the time said your time would be then. She has done this several times before and each time NOT reverted back but tried to continue the denial regime in some way. This February being the latest before now but she did the same last year at this time too. This latest attempt is being disguised by extra teasing and attention but strip that away and ask yourself why, for a woman that loves sex, multiple times and for long periods, and when her lover is not quite as freely available as before Sue wishes to extend her denial with you of sex at her own admitted orgasmic peak. Without a condom.
As Raks said, it makes no sense for a woman that truly loves you and wants a loving sexual (by her standards) relationship with you.
I think Raks makes a good point and I would like to expand on why I think I agree you again seem to be heading into a danger zone with Sue.
Take yourself back a few months. You exploded (by your recent standards) over the lack of apparent respect and loving that Sue was exhibiting. You were not wrong and Sue saw it and amended her actions. It was her that initiated bareback sex, not you. Even then I don’t think you would have done that, you were so tied up on what your then current record of denial was. I remain convinced though that this was the only action Sue could take that could fix things and she used the treatment several times but it now seems only until she was convinced you had returned to your previously submissive self.
It is again worth remembering how you both currently regard bareback sex. You still seem to put top of your list but the extra buzz you get from its denial, combined with Sue’s constant teasing about how you don’t get it and Paul does all the time means that condom sex for you is almost as good. I suspect even better on a few days when the angst is high. For Sue, she says she now gets a buzz from knowing she denies you but for her bareback sex remains by far the best sex she has, with Paul or you, and she seems only able to get to her highest orgasmic state while engaged in it. Your own feeling constantly blind you to this simple fact.
Sue denies herself her best orgasms when she has sex with you with a condom. Yet she is now proposing a future where this is a permanent state. I know how much this actually excites you, but look at this from Sue’s perspective for a moment. Why would she regard this as a desirable outcome? As part of a short term game to get your juices running, fine, but where is the benefit for her in extending it for far longer? The only logical answer is not good, it is that she no longer finds sex with you exciting enough so needs to limit it in some way to really enjoy it elsewhere. By exploiting your fetish, she can do this easily. This is now the third time in two years she has tried to extend it in this way. Each time previously you have finally cracked and stopped it happening. You need to do so again. It needs to stay a game, not a way of life.
Sue likes sex for sustained periods and multiple times. You have witnessed this many times now with Paul and she has told of others. Last weekend with Paul it was five times, and the last one only for her. Coming that often, Paul would have been able to last a long time between orgasms, their sex could have lasted for hours. That is what Sue loves. With you she bottles you up all week (or longer) so that by the time you roll a condom on and finally penetrate her you come almost immediately by comparison. You don’t even seem to get her really horny first by giving her oral (as Paul does), or extend her pleasure by doing so afterwards. The contrast is huge. Is this really all she wants from you, or is this really all you can now deliver?
Sue restarted all this extra denial stuff a few weeks ago on the pretext of needing to get a more sustained effort with Paul in before the summer started and at the time said your time would be then. She has done this several times before and each time NOT reverted back but tried to continue the denial regime in some way. This February being the latest before now but she did the same last year at this time too. This latest attempt is being disguised by extra teasing and attention but strip that away and ask yourself why, for a woman that loves sex, multiple times and for long periods, and when her lover is not quite as freely available as before Sue wishes to extend her denial with you of sex at her own admitted orgasmic peak. Without a condom.
As Raks said, it makes no sense for a woman that truly loves you and wants a loving sexual (by her standards) relationship with you.
Steve,
I have got to say, it is always interesting to read your post as you and Sue go down this road today as a happily married couple. In prior exchanges, there has been times were some of us on the forum have touched on the subtle and not so subtle differences between within an open marriage, being a couple which could be considered swingers, being the alpha husband of a hotwife, being the beta husband of a hotwife and simply being the husband of a cheating wife. There has been exchanges on the differences between those couple that do this as more of a playful hobby, some that do it in more of a role-play type way and what some seem to consider much more extreme and that is when couples decide to make this a true “real” lifestyle choice.
With that said, it would seem to me that Sue would like for this to truly be a lifestyle choice. When it comes to the sexual side of your relationship/marriage you have continued to express to Sue that you wanted to be her beta, inferring that you did not want to be the alpha within the relationship sexually speaking. Sue has taken on the role as the alpha, she teases you, she denies you in ways that you BOTH have mutually agreed to, so is it really denial if it is by mutual agreement, that is something that only you can assess. While Rak, Peak, myself and others have our own respective view point, you are truly the only one that can determine what works best for YOU and Sue as a married couple. At some point, you and Sue will need to determine if this is a role play game or a true “real” lifestyle choice.
Yes you should maintain a level of concern while at the same time realize that YOU were the one that requested this, you wanted Sue to explore her sexuality with another people which she has done on/off for years, you wanted to explore your more beta desires this time around has she was seeing Paul. You have had conflicted feelings about what it means to be or could mean to be the beta man to an Alpha Woman or to an Alpha Woman and her Lover. You have shared some of those conflicted feeling via this forum although I would think that you may have even more conflicted feelings in which you may not have shared with the group. As you have seen in some post on the multiple forums, not everyone understand that journey of a beta man sexually speaking, not everyone can appreciate what a beta man goes through on his journey and some people even look down upon men which openly take on the beta role sexually speaking.
Are you sure that you can completely embrace being the beta man sexually speaking to Sue as your Alpha as a lifestyle choice? If not, would you prefer to keep it as a role-play game as some others have suggested?
If you and Sue do determined that this is to truly become a committed lifestyle choice, make sure that you both are on the same page as to what is and or is not expected from this decision.
I have got to say, it is always interesting to read your post as you and Sue go down this road today as a happily married couple. In prior exchanges, there has been times were some of us on the forum have touched on the subtle and not so subtle differences between within an open marriage, being a couple which could be considered swingers, being the alpha husband of a hotwife, being the beta husband of a hotwife and simply being the husband of a cheating wife. There has been exchanges on the differences between those couple that do this as more of a playful hobby, some that do it in more of a role-play type way and what some seem to consider much more extreme and that is when couples decide to make this a true “real” lifestyle choice.
With that said, it would seem to me that Sue would like for this to truly be a lifestyle choice. When it comes to the sexual side of your relationship/marriage you have continued to express to Sue that you wanted to be her beta, inferring that you did not want to be the alpha within the relationship sexually speaking. Sue has taken on the role as the alpha, she teases you, she denies you in ways that you BOTH have mutually agreed to, so is it really denial if it is by mutual agreement, that is something that only you can assess. While Rak, Peak, myself and others have our own respective view point, you are truly the only one that can determine what works best for YOU and Sue as a married couple. At some point, you and Sue will need to determine if this is a role play game or a true “real” lifestyle choice.
Yes you should maintain a level of concern while at the same time realize that YOU were the one that requested this, you wanted Sue to explore her sexuality with another people which she has done on/off for years, you wanted to explore your more beta desires this time around has she was seeing Paul. You have had conflicted feelings about what it means to be or could mean to be the beta man to an Alpha Woman or to an Alpha Woman and her Lover. You have shared some of those conflicted feeling via this forum although I would think that you may have even more conflicted feelings in which you may not have shared with the group. As you have seen in some post on the multiple forums, not everyone understand that journey of a beta man sexually speaking, not everyone can appreciate what a beta man goes through on his journey and some people even look down upon men which openly take on the beta role sexually speaking.
Are you sure that you can completely embrace being the beta man sexually speaking to Sue as your Alpha as a lifestyle choice? If not, would you prefer to keep it as a role-play game as some others have suggested?
If you and Sue do determined that this is to truly become a committed lifestyle choice, make sure that you both are on the same page as to what is and or is not expected from this decision.
SquirmingSub said:
Nobody looks down upon Steve. We come here to read his experience and I sure believe that no matter what our respective opinions are - We all wish him well.
SquirmingSub said:
I know it is impossible to detach the sexual part from the rest of your life. So beta in bedroom, beta outside the bedroom as well. We have all known that STB has succumbed to what Sue has desired while being jacked off by her, or while in throes of passion. Of course STB doesn't share what they do in remaining time, but they do not talk sex. Had they been talking about sex, STB would have mentioned. And yes, I agree with Peak when he says that Sue has changed permanently - She doesn't wants STB as her sexual partner any more. That's why the desire for denial. And she has accepted this in past that that was the case. It could grow into a relationship where Sue continues to get her rocks off and so does STB (by not getting any). I think that, that stage has already reached wherein Sue can only get her excitement from Paul and STB can get his kick only if he is denied. I don't know how it effects the other part of relationship. I am sure if Sue is the leader in bedroom she will lead the things out of bedroom as well. You cannot change the role so often and easily. If She is the leader in emotional part of their relationship, she becomes the de-facto leader in other parts also.
Already STB is committed to allow her to decide when she will have her. Now he is also allowing her to decide when she will have him bare. Why not allow STB that she will allow him bare when he wants it. (HE will never want her bare anyway...so shouldn't be a risky proposition for Sue) But Sue doesn't wants him. That's what I think.
Again I would request STB to please understand that the comments we make here are from our perspective. And I do have immense respect for you and Sue. Both of you have such a good thing together. Hope that you ensure that the basic thread is not snapped off.
Cheers.
I only have a little bit of time right now but may have more tonight - both of the girls (Sue and our daughter) are out shopping right now.
Raks - I see your point that you don't see a separation or abiilty for separation of sex and the rest of our lives together - that may be, but so far, at least since my "coming out" with my beta desires, I haven't seen or felt much change elsewhere. We still have the same approach to parenting our kids and similarly with the rest of the family. There's been no change financially or with her expressing any different desires. But I am aware of this as a possibility so I am watching for it or at least thinking about it.
But Squirm, from some of what you said, I would have suspected you were listening in on some of our conversations last night in bed. I will say I am a little hesitant in that I understand what she is saying after she explained last night a bit more. One thing she did say that was a bit of a step back away from the edge was that "it's not going to never be" meaning me having her bare, but she said that she wanted to know she could feel that way and that she wanted me to know again that it might be a long time. It led to a pretty open discussion where, and this is the part that sort of makes me hesitant about what I've perhaps unleashed here, but she said very clearly to me that it turns her on to deny me.
She said that she feels it's like most everything else that's happened, that when she enjoys something that turns me on for a long time that (paraphrased) that it seems like it eventually becomes something that turns her on. She said that surely I have known and seen that she loves what we do on Wednesdays and I did tell her that it has been years now that she's told me how much she likes watching me cum and yes, she pointed out that for a long time she's also been telling me that she likes that it's not in her. I told her that it made me a little scared in a way and she giggled and said that it's not going to be forever but that it's definitely something she is feeling right now - that it really seems to turn her on when she sees my cum and she knows it's not in her. She looked at me and asked me honestly how that made me feel. I didn't speak for a few moments while I collected what I was thinking and then she said much of what Squirm said - that it was me who came out with my beta desires and how she had come to terms with that and now, she said she genuinely enjoyed the sex with Paul and - much as Squirm said, she said that she wanted to make it feel more real and more "permanent" while she was still seeing Paul. And then she added that with her seeing him less this summer, again she said that "this made it feel more special" which she later explained to be how she felt when trying to express that she enjoyed how things felt afterwards and how it made her feel when she was around me.
Ugh - they're home. More later
Raks - I see your point that you don't see a separation or abiilty for separation of sex and the rest of our lives together - that may be, but so far, at least since my "coming out" with my beta desires, I haven't seen or felt much change elsewhere. We still have the same approach to parenting our kids and similarly with the rest of the family. There's been no change financially or with her expressing any different desires. But I am aware of this as a possibility so I am watching for it or at least thinking about it.
But Squirm, from some of what you said, I would have suspected you were listening in on some of our conversations last night in bed. I will say I am a little hesitant in that I understand what she is saying after she explained last night a bit more. One thing she did say that was a bit of a step back away from the edge was that "it's not going to never be" meaning me having her bare, but she said that she wanted to know she could feel that way and that she wanted me to know again that it might be a long time. It led to a pretty open discussion where, and this is the part that sort of makes me hesitant about what I've perhaps unleashed here, but she said very clearly to me that it turns her on to deny me.
She said that she feels it's like most everything else that's happened, that when she enjoys something that turns me on for a long time that (paraphrased) that it seems like it eventually becomes something that turns her on. She said that surely I have known and seen that she loves what we do on Wednesdays and I did tell her that it has been years now that she's told me how much she likes watching me cum and yes, she pointed out that for a long time she's also been telling me that she likes that it's not in her. I told her that it made me a little scared in a way and she giggled and said that it's not going to be forever but that it's definitely something she is feeling right now - that it really seems to turn her on when she sees my cum and she knows it's not in her. She looked at me and asked me honestly how that made me feel. I didn't speak for a few moments while I collected what I was thinking and then she said much of what Squirm said - that it was me who came out with my beta desires and how she had come to terms with that and now, she said she genuinely enjoyed the sex with Paul and - much as Squirm said, she said that she wanted to make it feel more real and more "permanent" while she was still seeing Paul. And then she added that with her seeing him less this summer, again she said that "this made it feel more special" which she later explained to be how she felt when trying to express that she enjoyed how things felt afterwards and how it made her feel when she was around me.
Ugh - they're home. More later
Okay - a bit more time
So we talked more. I told her that I wasn't sure about the sense of permanence she was thinking and - I'd read both Peak and Raks post so I asked her how she felt it was going to affect us by foregoing "that" together. She looked at me and said that she still feels sex with me is very connecting even with the condom and that she says she will always feel something much more with me than with Paul - she actually said "he could never replace you honey" and she said that while she feels she does want less sex with me in general, she said she felt very strongly about still wanting to be with me and yes, she said "I still need to cum with you sometimes honey, that's never going to change" but she said that she wanted that to be when she needs to feel that special connection with me and needs to feel close to me.
Taking a cue from prior posts from Peak and Raks - I actually took that moment to say "what about if I need that?" and she looked at me and said "I told you, if you ever feel you need to be with me honey, that I will always be there for you" and she said that no matter what ever was going on, that if I felt I really needed that connection with her, that she wouldn't think twice about "spreading my legs for you honey". Thing is - I don't know how to express it but there was just no way she was lying about that - there was just no question about how she responded or how sincere she was. So - again thinking of Peak and Raks - I asked the big question - "what if I really needed to feel you.... you know.... without a condom". She took my hand and she said, without even a pause "if that's what you really need honey, then it's like I said, I wouldn't ever say no". She paused for a moment and then added "I would just want to make sure it was what you really wanted, that's all, but if you really felt you did, then I wouldn't ever say no to you" and she pulled me close and hugged me. When she moved back from me there was a look on her face and I just had to say "what?" and she said, kind of softly, "I'd just want to make sure it was what you really wanted". And the conversation from there resumed to where it was before when she said "I meant what I'd said earlier, I'd just rather you didn't, you know....".
It wasn't awkward by any means. It was honest and that was why it was both very reassuring, that we could talk and communicate, but it was also a little scary as I'd said before because she said something like "it's not what I thought I'd want or like" and she then said "if you didn't like it so much, maybe I'd have felt differently too" and she looked at me and said "what do you think?".
As I said, there are times when we can just feel so comfortable that we can talk about anything without feeling weird or pressured and this was one of those moments because it seemed almost too easy for me to say "well, you know it turns me on.....". And she turned to me and said "how much?" and I looked at her and I told her that I felt a little scared to say it but I did anyway and I told her that I was still very much turned on by being the beta for her and while I know she would undoubtedly continue and even enjoy sex with him more, that I thought it might be something we could try. She looked at me and said "I want you to think about it baby" and that we would talk about it more today and maybe tonight.
Our daughter has to work during the day tomorrow and then will be going over her boyfriends after for dinner. Our agreement for the summer is that Sue can arrange to see Paul whenever our daughter is working and that would be the easiest to arrange. So likely I'll have some time tomorrow.
So we talked more. I told her that I wasn't sure about the sense of permanence she was thinking and - I'd read both Peak and Raks post so I asked her how she felt it was going to affect us by foregoing "that" together. She looked at me and said that she still feels sex with me is very connecting even with the condom and that she says she will always feel something much more with me than with Paul - she actually said "he could never replace you honey" and she said that while she feels she does want less sex with me in general, she said she felt very strongly about still wanting to be with me and yes, she said "I still need to cum with you sometimes honey, that's never going to change" but she said that she wanted that to be when she needs to feel that special connection with me and needs to feel close to me.
Taking a cue from prior posts from Peak and Raks - I actually took that moment to say "what about if I need that?" and she looked at me and said "I told you, if you ever feel you need to be with me honey, that I will always be there for you" and she said that no matter what ever was going on, that if I felt I really needed that connection with her, that she wouldn't think twice about "spreading my legs for you honey". Thing is - I don't know how to express it but there was just no way she was lying about that - there was just no question about how she responded or how sincere she was. So - again thinking of Peak and Raks - I asked the big question - "what if I really needed to feel you.... you know.... without a condom". She took my hand and she said, without even a pause "if that's what you really need honey, then it's like I said, I wouldn't ever say no". She paused for a moment and then added "I would just want to make sure it was what you really wanted, that's all, but if you really felt you did, then I wouldn't ever say no to you" and she pulled me close and hugged me. When she moved back from me there was a look on her face and I just had to say "what?" and she said, kind of softly, "I'd just want to make sure it was what you really wanted". And the conversation from there resumed to where it was before when she said "I meant what I'd said earlier, I'd just rather you didn't, you know....".
It wasn't awkward by any means. It was honest and that was why it was both very reassuring, that we could talk and communicate, but it was also a little scary as I'd said before because she said something like "it's not what I thought I'd want or like" and she then said "if you didn't like it so much, maybe I'd have felt differently too" and she looked at me and said "what do you think?".
As I said, there are times when we can just feel so comfortable that we can talk about anything without feeling weird or pressured and this was one of those moments because it seemed almost too easy for me to say "well, you know it turns me on.....". And she turned to me and said "how much?" and I looked at her and I told her that I felt a little scared to say it but I did anyway and I told her that I was still very much turned on by being the beta for her and while I know she would undoubtedly continue and even enjoy sex with him more, that I thought it might be something we could try. She looked at me and said "I want you to think about it baby" and that we would talk about it more today and maybe tonight.
Our daughter has to work during the day tomorrow and then will be going over her boyfriends after for dinner. Our agreement for the summer is that Sue can arrange to see Paul whenever our daughter is working and that would be the easiest to arrange. So likely I'll have some time tomorrow.
Steve,
You seem to have a blind spot for Sue's justifications after she moves the goal posts in this way. This is partly because all such talk gets you excited and you lose the ability to think clearly it seems. Big head, small head.
The thing is, when you aren't in a teased situation, you at least in part equate intimacy with love and sex. You need it in your life and you need to know that Sue wants it with you on a regular basis. Condoms or not. Three months ago you saw that need from her breaking down and it spooked you. Sue responded (as she said in your posts above) with more loving and even threw away the condoms for a while. The question is, which was real? Her stated desire at the start of that episode for less contact with you, or her apparent need after your intervention which convinced you once again that she needs you?
The thing is, she has just done the same thing again. She said before her weekend away that she was cutting down your contact over the last few weeks because the summer was about to start and you would see her more then. Now she is saying that during this summer she needs to restrict you more so that it preserves the fewer 'special' times she has with Paul. While she talks you just seem mesmerized, unable to think through what she is actually saying. Even though it is likely to again lead you into the same space as before when you felt ignored and left out. This may take longer because Sue is talking more, but in these matters actions hold more sway than words, and the lack of physical attention where Sue clearly expressed her own physical needs from you is likely affect you eventually.
As to Sue saying she gets excited on Wednesdays, if that is true it is but a very pale imitation of what Sue really finds exciting in sexual activity, and it very, very rarely seems to trigger her to take it further with you either in oral terms or conversion to straight sex.
All of this would be acceptable if you personally felt you were going down the permanent lifestyle road that Squirmy outlines and perhaps has trodden himself. The thing is you don't seem to be saying (yet) that is what or where you want to go. You seem to want to leave your options open to continue roughly as things stand or to (perhaps partially now) switch back to a more normal hotwife relationship.
Finally, I would urge to quietly think about Paul. He has three options. Move in a way to steal more and more of Sue's time and eventually try to steal her. Move away in time terms and perhaps switch his romantic attention to a single lady golfer who better meets his needs, or stick roughly as he is and take whatever Sue is capable or desirous of giving him which shifts about as she needs or wants to accommodate other things in her life (including you). I can't see even Paul sticking with this last option for ever so at some point you are going to have to think through what you want from Sue when it changes. I can't see any new boyfriend in the future being quite so bland, accommodating and romantically inert as Paul for example.
You seem to have a blind spot for Sue's justifications after she moves the goal posts in this way. This is partly because all such talk gets you excited and you lose the ability to think clearly it seems. Big head, small head.
The thing is, when you aren't in a teased situation, you at least in part equate intimacy with love and sex. You need it in your life and you need to know that Sue wants it with you on a regular basis. Condoms or not. Three months ago you saw that need from her breaking down and it spooked you. Sue responded (as she said in your posts above) with more loving and even threw away the condoms for a while. The question is, which was real? Her stated desire at the start of that episode for less contact with you, or her apparent need after your intervention which convinced you once again that she needs you?
The thing is, she has just done the same thing again. She said before her weekend away that she was cutting down your contact over the last few weeks because the summer was about to start and you would see her more then. Now she is saying that during this summer she needs to restrict you more so that it preserves the fewer 'special' times she has with Paul. While she talks you just seem mesmerized, unable to think through what she is actually saying. Even though it is likely to again lead you into the same space as before when you felt ignored and left out. This may take longer because Sue is talking more, but in these matters actions hold more sway than words, and the lack of physical attention where Sue clearly expressed her own physical needs from you is likely affect you eventually.
As to Sue saying she gets excited on Wednesdays, if that is true it is but a very pale imitation of what Sue really finds exciting in sexual activity, and it very, very rarely seems to trigger her to take it further with you either in oral terms or conversion to straight sex.
All of this would be acceptable if you personally felt you were going down the permanent lifestyle road that Squirmy outlines and perhaps has trodden himself. The thing is you don't seem to be saying (yet) that is what or where you want to go. You seem to want to leave your options open to continue roughly as things stand or to (perhaps partially now) switch back to a more normal hotwife relationship.
Finally, I would urge to quietly think about Paul. He has three options. Move in a way to steal more and more of Sue's time and eventually try to steal her. Move away in time terms and perhaps switch his romantic attention to a single lady golfer who better meets his needs, or stick roughly as he is and take whatever Sue is capable or desirous of giving him which shifts about as she needs or wants to accommodate other things in her life (including you). I can't see even Paul sticking with this last option for ever so at some point you are going to have to think through what you want from Sue when it changes. I can't see any new boyfriend in the future being quite so bland, accommodating and romantically inert as Paul for example.
You are right Peak when you ask the question "Was that real or was that real?"
I have got only three points:
1. She earlier said that you need such re-connection, then past week she said that you would not get her bare for a month, which has now become "almost forever"
2. If getting her bare is not such a big thing, (and if it's a game) then why Sue is making such a big deal out of it. Is Paul pressurizing her? Or She is getting lesser interested in you, so much so that even if Paul is not there she wouldn't be interested in sex with you. In your conversation She said it again that She doesn't want to have Sex with you.
3. Why the stress on "If I am sure you really need me" ....Why? Isn't your saying something enough? Why you'd have to prove to your own wife that you really need her? She must be able to sense the need and respond.
As I have said again and I will repeat it - these points that I have raised are not meant to question you and Sue and your love for each other, but you can use these as guidance points during your conversation - with Sue as well as yourself which you so very graciously did during your last conversation. And I feel very humbled that you remembered something I said here during your intimate moments with your loving wife.
That being said - the path has turned very slippery once again. Please, PLEASE, don't let it go there. And as Peak has said - you are not anyone else. You are you. Decide what you want.
I have got only three points:
1. She earlier said that you need such re-connection, then past week she said that you would not get her bare for a month, which has now become "almost forever"
2. If getting her bare is not such a big thing, (and if it's a game) then why Sue is making such a big deal out of it. Is Paul pressurizing her? Or She is getting lesser interested in you, so much so that even if Paul is not there she wouldn't be interested in sex with you. In your conversation She said it again that She doesn't want to have Sex with you.
3. Why the stress on "If I am sure you really need me" ....Why? Isn't your saying something enough? Why you'd have to prove to your own wife that you really need her? She must be able to sense the need and respond.
As I have said again and I will repeat it - these points that I have raised are not meant to question you and Sue and your love for each other, but you can use these as guidance points during your conversation - with Sue as well as yourself which you so very graciously did during your last conversation. And I feel very humbled that you remembered something I said here during your intimate moments with your loving wife.
That being said - the path has turned very slippery once again. Please, PLEASE, don't let it go there. And as Peak has said - you are not anyone else. You are you. Decide what you want.
Well, she has gone off to see him for a while this afternoon, but did tell me before she left that we should "have some time together later" so right now my little-head is telling me that maybe she's going to perhaps have sex with me more but obviously using condoms. That's where my optimistic thoughts are right now as my cock is rock hard.
The question of whether this is what I would want given her redefinition of terms and her focus on some sort of reality or permanence of things is something I have given thought to. I would be lying and foolish to say other than I am sure this has been on/in my mind since I "came out" with my beta desires.
So, I've been thinking about that. Yes, that is the same term that a gay person uses to describe when he accepts his/herself - and for me - I have to say now that it feels really nice. I can't explain it but I do love how I am feeling now and how things feel with Sue. Raks, I can't explain it and maybe it is something as Peak says that I may want to grow out of at some point - but right now, I am loving how I am feeling as the beta for her. I think for me, the thing that makes me believe this about myself and makes me understand that this is honestly something that turns me on is that for as crazy as it may sound, I love that only Paul can make her cum like crazy when they're fucking after he's cum in her and for as crazy as it sounds, it turns me on to no end that I have given that up with her and given that to him.
It's been 9 years now that I've been sorting my feelings out and I truly don't feel threatened by any of this in terms of our relationship. Perhaps as Peak says that will change if Paul is replaced by someone else, but for right now, it really feels right to me to let go of the reins for a little bit so I am truly thinking of telling her yes to her request. When we talked a bit more this morning she told me that "... what I want to feel between my legs has nothing to do with what I want to feel in my heart..." and she was very honest with me when she told me, starting last night and then this morning again, how horny she was and how she wanted to go see him. We were sitting on the front porch with a cup of coffee and she said she wanted to feel that she could tell me how horny she was. After she told me she asked me if I liked knowing/hearing that and I told her an honest "yes" and I think i surprised her by saying that I wanted her to enjoy being with him.
I can't really explain it but as I said, I can understand how a gay person must feel when they are able to feel okay about how they feel. In that way I don't know that many here, especially not Raks and Peak, who will understand that I truly love knowing she is in bed with him right now. I admit it feels crazy to me at times, so Peak, I do feel what you're saying about understanding what and when I get lulled into agreeing with her. A part of me is genuinely concerned about what she is expressing and yes, what it might mean. But that is, for me balanced by what I feel from her when we talk openly and how despite some points of friction at times, that she does truly want to make this good for me. Although I will readily and openly admit as I've said to her that I'm a little scared at what she's referring to as this reality or permanence - I"m not sure I'm ready to say that it's truly my last time feeling her bare if it really could be. But yet at the same time, as scary as that sounds to me, at the same time I have to tell you that my cock is absolutely drooling right now thinking about it. As I said, it's a crazy feeling - but it honestly turns me on.
I know that I used to read some of the other posts with scorn, derision or disbelief that people really can adopt lifestyles that seem extreme, but now, as I've said before, I have a much better understanding of the arousal and understanding that can allow it to happen.
The question of whether this is what I would want given her redefinition of terms and her focus on some sort of reality or permanence of things is something I have given thought to. I would be lying and foolish to say other than I am sure this has been on/in my mind since I "came out" with my beta desires.
So, I've been thinking about that. Yes, that is the same term that a gay person uses to describe when he accepts his/herself - and for me - I have to say now that it feels really nice. I can't explain it but I do love how I am feeling now and how things feel with Sue. Raks, I can't explain it and maybe it is something as Peak says that I may want to grow out of at some point - but right now, I am loving how I am feeling as the beta for her. I think for me, the thing that makes me believe this about myself and makes me understand that this is honestly something that turns me on is that for as crazy as it may sound, I love that only Paul can make her cum like crazy when they're fucking after he's cum in her and for as crazy as it sounds, it turns me on to no end that I have given that up with her and given that to him.
It's been 9 years now that I've been sorting my feelings out and I truly don't feel threatened by any of this in terms of our relationship. Perhaps as Peak says that will change if Paul is replaced by someone else, but for right now, it really feels right to me to let go of the reins for a little bit so I am truly thinking of telling her yes to her request. When we talked a bit more this morning she told me that "... what I want to feel between my legs has nothing to do with what I want to feel in my heart..." and she was very honest with me when she told me, starting last night and then this morning again, how horny she was and how she wanted to go see him. We were sitting on the front porch with a cup of coffee and she said she wanted to feel that she could tell me how horny she was. After she told me she asked me if I liked knowing/hearing that and I told her an honest "yes" and I think i surprised her by saying that I wanted her to enjoy being with him.
I can't really explain it but as I said, I can understand how a gay person must feel when they are able to feel okay about how they feel. In that way I don't know that many here, especially not Raks and Peak, who will understand that I truly love knowing she is in bed with him right now. I admit it feels crazy to me at times, so Peak, I do feel what you're saying about understanding what and when I get lulled into agreeing with her. A part of me is genuinely concerned about what she is expressing and yes, what it might mean. But that is, for me balanced by what I feel from her when we talk openly and how despite some points of friction at times, that she does truly want to make this good for me. Although I will readily and openly admit as I've said to her that I'm a little scared at what she's referring to as this reality or permanence - I"m not sure I'm ready to say that it's truly my last time feeling her bare if it really could be. But yet at the same time, as scary as that sounds to me, at the same time I have to tell you that my cock is absolutely drooling right now thinking about it. As I said, it's a crazy feeling - but it honestly turns me on.
I know that I used to read some of the other posts with scorn, derision or disbelief that people really can adopt lifestyles that seem extreme, but now, as I've said before, I have a much better understanding of the arousal and understanding that can allow it to happen.
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Steve,
Thank you for an honest, soul baring answer. Maybe you feel a little vulnerable now having got that off your chest. I hope not. For it reveals a man truly trusting and in love with his wife and his life at the moment. It seems that the lifestyle choice is currently your preference and it certainly seems that Sue is also of this mind. Have fun.
Just one point on the 'get out' card. It's clear that it's now pointless. Firstly in your current mode I don't think you would ever use it. Second, as Sue says she would ask if you were absolutely sure and you couldn't be. Thirdly, if you did ask it would be because on a deep level you needed that reconnection but that route wouldn't give it you. Only a one sided mercy fuck. No, the true reconnection now comes from Sue wanting it. On her terms and in her own time. You know that now and both frightens you and comforts you. What if she never, but how great when she does.
It's a great life. I think I do understand it.
Thank you for an honest, soul baring answer. Maybe you feel a little vulnerable now having got that off your chest. I hope not. For it reveals a man truly trusting and in love with his wife and his life at the moment. It seems that the lifestyle choice is currently your preference and it certainly seems that Sue is also of this mind. Have fun.
Just one point on the 'get out' card. It's clear that it's now pointless. Firstly in your current mode I don't think you would ever use it. Second, as Sue says she would ask if you were absolutely sure and you couldn't be. Thirdly, if you did ask it would be because on a deep level you needed that reconnection but that route wouldn't give it you. Only a one sided mercy fuck. No, the true reconnection now comes from Sue wanting it. On her terms and in her own time. You know that now and both frightens you and comforts you. What if she never, but how great when she does.
It's a great life. I think I do understand it.
Well, there was little to no talk yesterday when Sue came home outside of our normal banter. I had sort of steered myself up to talk more but when she came in - at first I felt it and then she confirmed it - that she was going to be playful with me. So the thoughts of some kind of talk were for naught.
She asked me if I was horny and when I said that I was she gave me that wriggle in her finger and I followed her upstairs. She stood there and as we kissed she said I should undress her. As I said, I was a bit surprised by her and her apparent desire for me. But as I undressed her she made it clear that she was going to tease and taunt me the whole time by starting out with saying that when the warmer weather is here she won't have to wear a bra as much and then told me that "Paul likes that" and then added "I like it when he does this too" as I had just unbuttoned her top and slid it off her arms. Her nipples were darkened and stiff and in my head that signaled that she'd enjoyed herself earlier. We kissed again as she pulled my shirt off over my head and I felt her warm body against mine. She reached into my pants as she undid them and felt that I was hard and she giggled and said "awww, you feel very horny honey" and with that she lay back onto the bed and told me "take my pants off" and as I started to undo the buttons she giggled and said "but leave my panties on".
She told me afterwards that she knew what I would see when I pulled her pants off, a big wet-spot on the crotch of her panties darkening the light blue color. She lay there and let me see her and then said as if it were nothing "he came in me twice baby" and a moment later she raised her butt and said "take them off me". I was still staring at them and she giggled and said "okay, you can look for a moment longer" and with that she spread her legs even more and now I could see some of the wetness beneath the damp cloth. As she saw me looking she said "it was really nice baby" and again as if it were the weather out, she said "I came a lot with him too". It was something she'd mentioned that I was now realizing how she'd meant it - that she wanted to talk to me more with me as the beta and that she wanted to share it with me more honestly.
I told her how incredibly sexy she was and how horny I was at her lying there and what she'd said. She blushed a little bit and said "awww, you're making this really easy" and she raised her butt again for me to take her panties off. This time I didn't hesitate and I loved how it felt to literally unwrap her - that first date feeling on steroids. Her legs were together as I slid her panties off and then as I put them down on the bed she pulled her knees back and spread her legs and said "I'm know you want to see me" and as she let me look up and down her body she said to me "It feels good to let you see me". Her body was taut - yes, I knew she was in good shape as we exercise a lot - but seeing her lying there with almost a flat tummy and very toned legs - as she spread them, her pussy just looked so deliciously beautiful. I could tell immediately they'd been likely rough with each other - there was a rosy tone to her whole vulva area but how her pussy lips seemed swollen and how they glistened in the crevice between them was really erotic. when she pulled them back further they spread apart revealing where he'd been in her and while it wasn't exactly running out of her, it was still obvious she was quite wet and aroused.
I know it's going to sound crazy but at that moment - I likely could have just jerked off at the sight and thoughts in my head and maybe I'd have even been satisfied by that! I think it's pride that I feel - not sure how else to describe it seeing her and knowing how she felt so comfortable sharing it with me. Knowing Paul had sex with her and came in her twice was just amazing as she lay there. A moment later she looked up at me and said "want to go down on me?". I had no hesitation and when I started to lick at her in earnest and I felt her respond and I didn't feel her hand on my head pushing me away or asking me to do less - I think I relaxed and slowed down and enjoyed it even more. She cooed as I gently licked at her swollen pussy lips and told me how nice it felt for me to be "so gentle with me down there" and as I felt her getting more and more into it and responding with her getting wetter and wetter I looked up at one moment and I told her "I love that he was in you" just that and then I went back to licking her. Yes, my god she tasted like cum, very tart but very clearly cum and indeed after she came close to cumming as she thrust her pussy upwards at me, when she came down from that wave she pulled me up to her and I kissed her and when we were done she smiled and said "you taste like Paul".
While I wished the moment could last forever, the reality was that we both knew our daughter was going to be home likely for dinner and we didnt' really have much time. And it's a moment that I will want to talk with her more about - about why she needs to feel this almost declaration when - without even thinking about it - yesterday as I pulled away from her kiss, she reached down and felt my hard cock and stroked it and rubbed the pre-cum all around the head and I don't even think she realized what I was doing as I leaned over and then seeming before she knew it, I was rolling a condom on. The smile on her face was just priceless - she felt it with her hand first and then arched her back to look better at me and between her legs and when she saw my cock inside the condom even I could tell how she felt as she lay back and I swear, her pussy looked even wetter than just a moment earlier.
I put a little lube on the condom and as I pushed gently into her she pulled her legs back and then put them around my back and all she said as she felt me fill her was "thank you honey". She was soooo wet the further in I pushed and then pulled back that even she began to moan at the slick feelings. We were really getting into a good rhythm and she was definiltey into it and when she felt me start to really throb she looked up at me and said "it just feels right to me baby". It was sort of out of the blue but it was so electric hearing it at that moment that I know she felt my response because she moaned deeply a moment later when I pushed firmly back into her.
I couldn't really say anything to her but I'll say here that the feelings I had as we fucked yesterday were even more intense than I'd felt with her on that first New Years Eve when we agreed to try this out. Yes, it scared me deeply that this might be all I'll feel with her in the future - yes, I could feel how warm and wet and welcoming she felt - but at the same time I knew I couldn't feel it all.
But Peak - what I will say is that I had to agree with her. It did feel right. I can't explain it but it did and still does feel right to me. Sure enough a few moments later she heard and felt me grunt and thrust crazily into her and she said even through the condom she could feel me cumming and how hot it felt. When I'd exhausted myself and sort of collapsed against her but still inside her she held me tight and then she didn't miss the opportuntity to tell me "thank you" and I pushed myself up on my elbows and kissed her and I said "it's so weird that it feels good" and I pushed up to my knees and my now softened cock slipped out of her. She immediately sat up and reached to slide the condom off my cock and she held it up and closed her eyes for a moment and she whispered "it's sooooo warm!!!!" and then she held it out for us both to see. I was kind of speechless for the moment still a little winded but she was all excited and said "see, that works for both of us, doesn't it?" and I sort of said "yeah, I guess". While I lay there she got up off the bed and went into the bathroom and came back with a wet wash cloth that she blotted against her pussy and said "I guess that's all from me" and then she leaned over and surprised the heck out of me by sucking my softened cock into her mouth and licking it clean. She smiled as she sucked her mouth loudly off my limp cock and she giggled and said "that was really nice honey" and as I move up onto my elbows to sit up she wiped off my crotch and then sat up next to me. As I leaned onto one arm she kissed me again and then held the condom up and told me "THIS.... This really turns me on baby" and she pulled me up to a sitting position and kissed me passionately. And that was it. She got up and let me watch as she pulled on a new clean pair of panties and then put her bra back on and then pulled on a pair of jeans and a loose top. I sat there naked the whole time and she giggled and said "you're not horny again are you?" and she pointed to my cock which had grown a bit in size by then. I looked at her and said "what? .... no, I was just watching you..." which brought a huge smile to her face.
She kissed me and then said "get dressed so we can have some dinner cooking and not eat so late when xxxxx comes home".
She asked me if I was horny and when I said that I was she gave me that wriggle in her finger and I followed her upstairs. She stood there and as we kissed she said I should undress her. As I said, I was a bit surprised by her and her apparent desire for me. But as I undressed her she made it clear that she was going to tease and taunt me the whole time by starting out with saying that when the warmer weather is here she won't have to wear a bra as much and then told me that "Paul likes that" and then added "I like it when he does this too" as I had just unbuttoned her top and slid it off her arms. Her nipples were darkened and stiff and in my head that signaled that she'd enjoyed herself earlier. We kissed again as she pulled my shirt off over my head and I felt her warm body against mine. She reached into my pants as she undid them and felt that I was hard and she giggled and said "awww, you feel very horny honey" and with that she lay back onto the bed and told me "take my pants off" and as I started to undo the buttons she giggled and said "but leave my panties on".
She told me afterwards that she knew what I would see when I pulled her pants off, a big wet-spot on the crotch of her panties darkening the light blue color. She lay there and let me see her and then said as if it were nothing "he came in me twice baby" and a moment later she raised her butt and said "take them off me". I was still staring at them and she giggled and said "okay, you can look for a moment longer" and with that she spread her legs even more and now I could see some of the wetness beneath the damp cloth. As she saw me looking she said "it was really nice baby" and again as if it were the weather out, she said "I came a lot with him too". It was something she'd mentioned that I was now realizing how she'd meant it - that she wanted to talk to me more with me as the beta and that she wanted to share it with me more honestly.
I told her how incredibly sexy she was and how horny I was at her lying there and what she'd said. She blushed a little bit and said "awww, you're making this really easy" and she raised her butt again for me to take her panties off. This time I didn't hesitate and I loved how it felt to literally unwrap her - that first date feeling on steroids. Her legs were together as I slid her panties off and then as I put them down on the bed she pulled her knees back and spread her legs and said "I'm know you want to see me" and as she let me look up and down her body she said to me "It feels good to let you see me". Her body was taut - yes, I knew she was in good shape as we exercise a lot - but seeing her lying there with almost a flat tummy and very toned legs - as she spread them, her pussy just looked so deliciously beautiful. I could tell immediately they'd been likely rough with each other - there was a rosy tone to her whole vulva area but how her pussy lips seemed swollen and how they glistened in the crevice between them was really erotic. when she pulled them back further they spread apart revealing where he'd been in her and while it wasn't exactly running out of her, it was still obvious she was quite wet and aroused.
I know it's going to sound crazy but at that moment - I likely could have just jerked off at the sight and thoughts in my head and maybe I'd have even been satisfied by that! I think it's pride that I feel - not sure how else to describe it seeing her and knowing how she felt so comfortable sharing it with me. Knowing Paul had sex with her and came in her twice was just amazing as she lay there. A moment later she looked up at me and said "want to go down on me?". I had no hesitation and when I started to lick at her in earnest and I felt her respond and I didn't feel her hand on my head pushing me away or asking me to do less - I think I relaxed and slowed down and enjoyed it even more. She cooed as I gently licked at her swollen pussy lips and told me how nice it felt for me to be "so gentle with me down there" and as I felt her getting more and more into it and responding with her getting wetter and wetter I looked up at one moment and I told her "I love that he was in you" just that and then I went back to licking her. Yes, my god she tasted like cum, very tart but very clearly cum and indeed after she came close to cumming as she thrust her pussy upwards at me, when she came down from that wave she pulled me up to her and I kissed her and when we were done she smiled and said "you taste like Paul".
While I wished the moment could last forever, the reality was that we both knew our daughter was going to be home likely for dinner and we didnt' really have much time. And it's a moment that I will want to talk with her more about - about why she needs to feel this almost declaration when - without even thinking about it - yesterday as I pulled away from her kiss, she reached down and felt my hard cock and stroked it and rubbed the pre-cum all around the head and I don't even think she realized what I was doing as I leaned over and then seeming before she knew it, I was rolling a condom on. The smile on her face was just priceless - she felt it with her hand first and then arched her back to look better at me and between her legs and when she saw my cock inside the condom even I could tell how she felt as she lay back and I swear, her pussy looked even wetter than just a moment earlier.
I put a little lube on the condom and as I pushed gently into her she pulled her legs back and then put them around my back and all she said as she felt me fill her was "thank you honey". She was soooo wet the further in I pushed and then pulled back that even she began to moan at the slick feelings. We were really getting into a good rhythm and she was definiltey into it and when she felt me start to really throb she looked up at me and said "it just feels right to me baby". It was sort of out of the blue but it was so electric hearing it at that moment that I know she felt my response because she moaned deeply a moment later when I pushed firmly back into her.
I couldn't really say anything to her but I'll say here that the feelings I had as we fucked yesterday were even more intense than I'd felt with her on that first New Years Eve when we agreed to try this out. Yes, it scared me deeply that this might be all I'll feel with her in the future - yes, I could feel how warm and wet and welcoming she felt - but at the same time I knew I couldn't feel it all.
But Peak - what I will say is that I had to agree with her. It did feel right. I can't explain it but it did and still does feel right to me. Sure enough a few moments later she heard and felt me grunt and thrust crazily into her and she said even through the condom she could feel me cumming and how hot it felt. When I'd exhausted myself and sort of collapsed against her but still inside her she held me tight and then she didn't miss the opportuntity to tell me "thank you" and I pushed myself up on my elbows and kissed her and I said "it's so weird that it feels good" and I pushed up to my knees and my now softened cock slipped out of her. She immediately sat up and reached to slide the condom off my cock and she held it up and closed her eyes for a moment and she whispered "it's sooooo warm!!!!" and then she held it out for us both to see. I was kind of speechless for the moment still a little winded but she was all excited and said "see, that works for both of us, doesn't it?" and I sort of said "yeah, I guess". While I lay there she got up off the bed and went into the bathroom and came back with a wet wash cloth that she blotted against her pussy and said "I guess that's all from me" and then she leaned over and surprised the heck out of me by sucking my softened cock into her mouth and licking it clean. She smiled as she sucked her mouth loudly off my limp cock and she giggled and said "that was really nice honey" and as I move up onto my elbows to sit up she wiped off my crotch and then sat up next to me. As I leaned onto one arm she kissed me again and then held the condom up and told me "THIS.... This really turns me on baby" and she pulled me up to a sitting position and kissed me passionately. And that was it. She got up and let me watch as she pulled on a new clean pair of panties and then put her bra back on and then pulled on a pair of jeans and a loose top. I sat there naked the whole time and she giggled and said "you're not horny again are you?" and she pointed to my cock which had grown a bit in size by then. I looked at her and said "what? .... no, I was just watching you..." which brought a huge smile to her face.
She kissed me and then said "get dressed so we can have some dinner cooking and not eat so late when xxxxx comes home".
So, it's hard to focus on work right now as after what I posted before lunch my brain has been running non-stop and my cock has been equally aroused.
It hasn't been easy for me to think like this. I admit it, it scares me sometimes. But at other times, most of the time actually, it just feels right. And the more I think about it and the more we talk about it, the more I seem to understand and realize.
I truly do believe I know what a gay person must feel in terms of ******** themselves and understanding themselves that what they desire are aroused and fulfilled by may be different than others. For me, I don't know that I realized it at the time, but maybe I did. I don't know why but it seems to be the destiny given what I seem to look back on and feel myself desiring even from before she began with other guys.
It's not to say that I don't really enjoy looking back and enjoying the sex and even the alpha/aggressiveness I used to feel the need for, but that is really the definition of what I now feel. Maybe it's my mental response to a lowering of my overall sexual horniness (aka testosterone) to make it that I can enjoy it this way and not feel what might be if I was still (wanting to) perform multiple nights in a row during the week. But I can't make it up - it's 1000% true that I truly do love the beta position right now. I find it incredibly arousing and yes, sometimes, the thought of it being real or permanent is so incredible to feel and yes, find myself wanting.
What I need, I think, is to feel more secure with Sue in terms of what it is she wants vs. what or whether Paul is wanting any of this and pushing her in that direction. I don't beleive he is, he surely wasn't here last night. But I think what I also want and need to feel more secure about is how she will be if/when Paul moves on as will happen inevitably. What are her thoughts then? And yes, the pink-elephant in the room, her continued reassurance that should I want or need her physically, that she would be there. I think no matter what I will always need to hear that reassuarance from her, even if as Peak says, I will likely never say I have the need.
And yes, it's scary in seeing myself and understanding what I am really saying about myself. I don't view myself as a sub at all though, I don't feel that way, but beta is truly the definition that fits me. And maybe it is just as simple as Sue has become, symbolically, that ****** in the frat-house from my youth. I don't know but in many ways she is and has been right when she's asked me why I seem to be fighting this at times. It scares me that it turns me on as it does - but not just from a sexual "pump my cum into her" perspective, but from something deeper - as crazy as it sounds, it gives me the most intense satisfaction and I think perhaps my conflict is maybe that I want to enjoy that satisfaction, but maybe it's somehow my own belief somehow that I still need to be able to make her cum and more that I subconsciously can't give up? Now I just thought of that. But perhaps that's it, why I seem to fight it at times instead of saying what I feel I am now coming to terms with - that I do want to truly be the beta for her and that I'm reluctant to give up the ability to bring her to that intense orgasm. It's scary to think my brain may be working that way because at the same time I have no issues saying here or to her or even to Paul that I do enjoy knowing he is the (main) one to give that to her - and that I enjoy knowing it.
Anyway - too much of self-introspection right now. Let me tuck my cock back in my pants and get back to work.
It hasn't been easy for me to think like this. I admit it, it scares me sometimes. But at other times, most of the time actually, it just feels right. And the more I think about it and the more we talk about it, the more I seem to understand and realize.
I truly do believe I know what a gay person must feel in terms of ******** themselves and understanding themselves that what they desire are aroused and fulfilled by may be different than others. For me, I don't know that I realized it at the time, but maybe I did. I don't know why but it seems to be the destiny given what I seem to look back on and feel myself desiring even from before she began with other guys.
It's not to say that I don't really enjoy looking back and enjoying the sex and even the alpha/aggressiveness I used to feel the need for, but that is really the definition of what I now feel. Maybe it's my mental response to a lowering of my overall sexual horniness (aka testosterone) to make it that I can enjoy it this way and not feel what might be if I was still (wanting to) perform multiple nights in a row during the week. But I can't make it up - it's 1000% true that I truly do love the beta position right now. I find it incredibly arousing and yes, sometimes, the thought of it being real or permanent is so incredible to feel and yes, find myself wanting.
What I need, I think, is to feel more secure with Sue in terms of what it is she wants vs. what or whether Paul is wanting any of this and pushing her in that direction. I don't beleive he is, he surely wasn't here last night. But I think what I also want and need to feel more secure about is how she will be if/when Paul moves on as will happen inevitably. What are her thoughts then? And yes, the pink-elephant in the room, her continued reassurance that should I want or need her physically, that she would be there. I think no matter what I will always need to hear that reassuarance from her, even if as Peak says, I will likely never say I have the need.
And yes, it's scary in seeing myself and understanding what I am really saying about myself. I don't view myself as a sub at all though, I don't feel that way, but beta is truly the definition that fits me. And maybe it is just as simple as Sue has become, symbolically, that ****** in the frat-house from my youth. I don't know but in many ways she is and has been right when she's asked me why I seem to be fighting this at times. It scares me that it turns me on as it does - but not just from a sexual "pump my cum into her" perspective, but from something deeper - as crazy as it sounds, it gives me the most intense satisfaction and I think perhaps my conflict is maybe that I want to enjoy that satisfaction, but maybe it's somehow my own belief somehow that I still need to be able to make her cum and more that I subconsciously can't give up? Now I just thought of that. But perhaps that's it, why I seem to fight it at times instead of saying what I feel I am now coming to terms with - that I do want to truly be the beta for her and that I'm reluctant to give up the ability to bring her to that intense orgasm. It's scary to think my brain may be working that way because at the same time I have no issues saying here or to her or even to Paul that I do enjoy knowing he is the (main) one to give that to her - and that I enjoy knowing it.
Anyway - too much of self-introspection right now. Let me tuck my cock back in my pants and get back to work.
So you don't want to have sex with Sue anymore. Or is it that you don't desire the mother and wife Sue as much as you desire the Cuckoldress Sue.
You say your harmonal level is going down, so you don't desire sex with her. But why is your cock hard then? And if your sex desire is diminishing you need not worry about Sue desiring you or not, because you no longer need her for your pleasure and happiness.
You say your harmonal level is going down, so you don't desire sex with her. But why is your cock hard then? And if your sex desire is diminishing you need not worry about Sue desiring you or not, because you no longer need her for your pleasure and happiness.
I'm not sure either of your first 2 choices apply, but in terms of sexual arousal, yes, Cuckoldress Sue without a doubt.
I made an extension in the direction of an alternate explanation for my sexual proclivity here - that perhaps its my mental way of adapting to a slowing not a complete halt as you seem to imply by your yes or no decision you as in the first sentence of your second paragraph. And i certainly never said that I don't need her for my pleasure or happiness nor would I ever say that.
See Raks, this is where you jump over the line and once again.
But I've stopped questioning myself based on the more extreme tangent you seem to take.
I made an extension in the direction of an alternate explanation for my sexual proclivity here - that perhaps its my mental way of adapting to a slowing not a complete halt as you seem to imply by your yes or no decision you as in the first sentence of your second paragraph. And i certainly never said that I don't need her for my pleasure or happiness nor would I ever say that.
See Raks, this is where you jump over the line and once again.
But I've stopped questioning myself based on the more extreme tangent you seem to take.
Steve,
I understand what you are driving at with the coming out analogy but be careful of taking it too far in your head. However much Sue says she is happy with her current sex life, she didn't marry a beta guy. She married someone who she could admire, love, be the father to her children and all the other things everyone does. Including a great sex life. Just before you tip yourself mentally into infrequent penetrative contentment, just consider asking Sue seriously what she wants to happen should Paul drop out of play for any reason. He could go at any time, planned or unplanned and Sue's choices at that time, from her perspective, could be pretty hard edged. She almost certainly wouldn't want to leave you but just yourself one question. If for some reason you weren't there, would she marry you tomorrow knowing what she knows?
You have both travelled far from your start position in your relationship. You think you have travelled together to the same place. I'm not sure it is exactly so. At this time Paul is actually providing an important part of the glue that binds you and Sue together. You would now be hard pressed to find someone else would match his qualities and needs and who would also not be a threat to your relationship. So, if he goes could you be what Sue needs and wants going forward?
To be clear, after your last few posts, I see no critical conflict or issue threatening that at present.
I understand what you are driving at with the coming out analogy but be careful of taking it too far in your head. However much Sue says she is happy with her current sex life, she didn't marry a beta guy. She married someone who she could admire, love, be the father to her children and all the other things everyone does. Including a great sex life. Just before you tip yourself mentally into infrequent penetrative contentment, just consider asking Sue seriously what she wants to happen should Paul drop out of play for any reason. He could go at any time, planned or unplanned and Sue's choices at that time, from her perspective, could be pretty hard edged. She almost certainly wouldn't want to leave you but just yourself one question. If for some reason you weren't there, would she marry you tomorrow knowing what she knows?
You have both travelled far from your start position in your relationship. You think you have travelled together to the same place. I'm not sure it is exactly so. At this time Paul is actually providing an important part of the glue that binds you and Sue together. You would now be hard pressed to find someone else would match his qualities and needs and who would also not be a threat to your relationship. So, if he goes could you be what Sue needs and wants going forward?
To be clear, after your last few posts, I see no critical conflict or issue threatening that at present.
Steve - it is good to see that you are able to better express your desires, how your feeling on this level, so many people hold back for fear of being judged as so many do on these forums. You and Sue both have grown as individuals and as a couple. Many couple grow apart while you and Sue have found a new path which continue to bond you two. Continue to embrace who you are and what you desire.
Squirm, it's not easy right now. I still feel conflicted at times telling myself "how can this be what I want or enjoy?" but then there is the reality of how I respond every time and, yes, how much I want it at times. I think the thing that makes it both more difficult and easier at the same time is that Sue knows how I feel and that I both want her to know and yet I don't want her to know. It doesn't make much sense to me either but I guess a part of me still feels it's somehow not masculine to enjoy what I do. Even though we are both so far past that point that it makes no sense. What is eerie and yet comforting at the same time is her own arousal at what turns me on, but she's pointed out that has been the way it has been since the beginning, she even giggled and told me that is where I am still the alpha in a sense and while I didn't ask, it did make me feel that if this stopped doing what it does for me, that perhaps she may also feel differently?
So I guess I truly am a cuckold in the truest sense. As I said, I feel conflicted at times wanting something that would seem to be something most guys would want to avoid. I've been thinking now that its been 9 years now that she's been enjoying other guys. What's eerie is that it is almost 1/3rd of our marriage now and that as each day passes, that percentage will only increase. But what it also makes me feel is that I obviously want and enjoy it, so maybe she is right, why do I fight it. I admit to her and others and here that I love the feeling of being the beta for her. I don't fully understand it but I do love that when she feels that itch, that she wants Paul to scratch it for her. I don't like or want her to fall for him any more than she has and I don't feel threatened by that, at least not with Paul and not right now. But I do love how it feels to make love with her and know the whole time that I am using a condom. I said that I've come to realize many things, about myself but also as I said about posts and other stuff on the web where others have said they feel this same way only expressed differently - I used to regard them with disbelief or disdain but now, I see that perhaps more of it is real than I'd thought. There is something that just touches me in a way that makes me want this even more.
I still have my questions and still haven't told her yes or no to the reality/permanence question. Perhaps later this week, but not tonight.
So I guess I truly am a cuckold in the truest sense. As I said, I feel conflicted at times wanting something that would seem to be something most guys would want to avoid. I've been thinking now that its been 9 years now that she's been enjoying other guys. What's eerie is that it is almost 1/3rd of our marriage now and that as each day passes, that percentage will only increase. But what it also makes me feel is that I obviously want and enjoy it, so maybe she is right, why do I fight it. I admit to her and others and here that I love the feeling of being the beta for her. I don't fully understand it but I do love that when she feels that itch, that she wants Paul to scratch it for her. I don't like or want her to fall for him any more than she has and I don't feel threatened by that, at least not with Paul and not right now. But I do love how it feels to make love with her and know the whole time that I am using a condom. I said that I've come to realize many things, about myself but also as I said about posts and other stuff on the web where others have said they feel this same way only expressed differently - I used to regard them with disbelief or disdain but now, I see that perhaps more of it is real than I'd thought. There is something that just touches me in a way that makes me want this even more.
I still have my questions and still haven't told her yes or no to the reality/permanence question. Perhaps later this week, but not tonight.
You could also look at it this way.... your use of condoms is no different than if she was unable to tolerate the pill or iud, or sponge. You would be ****** to use condoms (unless you got snipped yourself).
Ok, the other guy thing is a bit of a one-off situation, but as for the desire to use condoms.... not unheard of in the circle of "vanilla relationships" either.
Ok, the other guy thing is a bit of a one-off situation, but as for the desire to use condoms.... not unheard of in the circle of "vanilla relationships" either.
Wingman, I think there is more to it than that. (Steve, correct me if I'm wrong.) It's not that Steve enjoys using condoms. If my memory is correct Steve didn't like using condoms a few years ago. Steve enjoys Paul taking Sue bare, While he must use a condom with Sue if he gets her at all. It's his beta status that gets Steve going.
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