The Economy

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I was on holiday in the US when the Health thing blew up with a lot of "Town Hall" meetings. Coming from a place with a Health Service that's not perfect in any way but better than most, I was just amazed at the blinkers worn by so many people in the US.

They were not prepared to listen to any arguments or discussions and simply believed some of the blatent lies the press were gleefully spouting to whip up Mr and Mrs America- "Death Panels for Grandma" - being my favourite

One chap shouted "I don't want health insurance for all because if a poor person gets sick they will use resources that I might need". :wtf:

In the end I ended up watching the nightly "round up" on the Comedy channel - strangely it told me all i needed to know, and was probably more honest than the "news" channels all day.
 
mhall said:
I was on holiday in the US when the Health thing blew up with a lot of "Town Hall" meetings. Coming from a place with a Health Service that's not perfect in any way but better than most, I was just amazed at the blinkers worn by so many people in the US.

They were not prepared to listen to any arguments or discussions and simply believed some of the blatent lies the press were gleefully spouting to whip up Mr and Mrs America- "Death Panels for Grandma" - being my favourite

One chap shouted "I don't want health insurance for all because if a poor person gets sick they will use resources that I might need". :wtf:

In the end I ended up watching the nightly "round up" on the Comedy channel - strangely it told me all i needed to know, and was probably more honest than the "news" channels all day.
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yeah, it's kinda funny and kinda sad that the most honest and best political reporting is on a comedy channel.
 
Why are USA hospitals so inefficient with money?

Why would anyone pay $60-80,000 for a hip operation in the USA when it can be done for $15-20,000 in Asia.

Every month, tens of thousands of Americans head overseas for low-cost health care rather than wait months and months and get slugged with ridiculous bills. Someone has got to be creaming off money somewhere into a "Swiss bank acount".

Clinton and Obama are both right - a lot of Health care organisations need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. It is the crime of the Century for poor people to not have immediate access to health care when they need it.

America does not look after its poor, but they go over to IRAQ and Afganistan and spend trillions in Wars no one really understands. What a hypocracy of blasphemany. Without the poor, there would not be enough rich people to work in the factories in their place.
 
Looking at the Veterans administration or the Bureau of Indian Affairs health care I'd rather not have insurance (I don't right now) than trust any politician to guarantee me free health care. Doctors who know the problems of socialized medicine have said they would consider leaving, something like 40% "they said they'd consider it." Government guarantees lead banks to make bad loans and when the government couldn't deal with the bad assets the financial industry went to crap. Government isn't a cure all, it rarely works as a fix and when it does within a few generations some other progressive with regressive ideas will try some new program take money from what was doing fine and screw up both programs. the argument were the only country that doesn't give free health care is a bad one. How well does the policy work better than the system we have now. Does the plan actually address the failures of the plans of other countries, does the plans of other countries actually correlate to the needs of this nation. These questions are ones that frankly Obama and "not-so-free" health care advocates either don't address or simply claim unicorns will fix it by making promises without a mechanism to keep said promise. When asked these questions advocates simply reply you hate the president because he's black. I want to see a health care system where the quality loss is minimal and greater access to all Americans but unfortunately the guarantees of this government with how the automotive industry, the financial industry and a 2 inch fish has hurt the American farming industry during an already economic recession. I don't trust this administration doing any more with health care or much else. More money will not fix these problems. More money simple makes the cost go up and keeps the bottom where they are because green paper is not real wealth. The backing of the economy behind said paper is what makes a dollar worth a dollar. Obama made a lot promises and told what his plan would do but gave almost no plan.
As for Malpractice, usually the common man has a little better grasp of reality than elites who have been surrounded by other politicians college professors indoctrinated into similar ideologies but when it comes to science of medicine juries can easily mistake freak accidents for malpractice but on the other hand someone screws up a surgery to the point of giving a male breast implant patient a female implant instead of a male one (there is a difference, male implants are hard plastic) then they should loose there shirt. I'm not sure how to fix malpractice claims and still protect the patient from negligent doctors. Most doctors are good and Obama's over generalization of looking at the greatest payment for the primary decision on the treatment is completely out of line. There are doctors under any human system that this will happen to and they are few and small between. Occasionally alternative medicine does have something but without scientific testing relying on it rather than science tested medicine is risky and dangerous so pointing to cheap herbs rather than tested drugs is risky at best.
 
President Clinton did not have a surplus. He basically kept the debt from raising as fast. Nothing more and nothing less.
 
Well if you are all upset with the health bill. Just want to point out that if this Cap& trade bill goes thru we will be paying more for Electric and nat.gas plus if you drive a car you'll be paying up to 6 bucks a gal. If you are paying say 130 a mounth now for gas and electric your bill will be going up to around 330 bucks a month. And so on. The whole thing is to get everyone going green. But the windmill generartors don't spin all day every day. because they can't handle the loads. The power plant industries have spent billions on pollution controls thats the powers that be wanted. And now they say there needs to be more done. Guess they don't know that the winds blow from Chiana to here with the slipstream. So if the bill passes you can have a choice. Live in the dark or live with out heat. But do you really need that new car you got on the cash for clunckers sale
 
I find it soothing to not be the only one who is a critic of big government economics. By the nature of the forum most people would agree they want to keep the government out of our bedrooms but too often the same group that doesn't want the government in our bedroom want the government in our wallets. Or should I say the wallets of other people to redistribute wealth. It's kind of like teenagers, give me a car, give me money, fix my mistakes but let me do what I want and don't criticise me. Instead of adults who may not always choose the smartest path but understand that help is wonderful but the ultimate responsibility is too first take care of ourselves, not to be selfish but not to be parasites.

Like I said its refreshing to see so many small government people here. I did not choose the term liberal or conservative because such terms are so arbritrary that a big government conservative actually makes sense and a small government liberal make sense.
 
My Campaign

sleeve-jones said:
I find it soothing to not be the only one who is a critic of big government economics. By the nature of the forum most people would agree they want to keep the government out of our bedrooms but too often the same group that doesn't want the government in our bedroom want the government in our wallets. Or should I say the wallets of other people to redistribute wealth. It's kind of like teenagers, give me a car, give me money, fix my mistakes but let me do what I want and don't criticise me. Instead of adults who may not always choose the smartest path but understand that help is wonderful but the ultimate responsibility is too first take care of ourselves, not to be selfish but not to be parasites.
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The words we use have meanings that we internalize. In politics, the words used are frequently selected, not to be descriptive but to mislead. The term "redistribution of wealth" is a great example of this.

Politicians and their minions in the press frequently talk about the pros and cons of "wealth redistribution". Do you, or anyone you know pay "wealth tax"? The only wealth taxes collected are estate taxes. And those are a very small part of tax revenue.

We all pay "income tax". When the politicians steal from us and redistribute a portion of it to buy votes, they are taxing income, not wealth.

There's a psychology to this. When the average worker hears about "redistribution of wealth" he thinks, "Since I'm not rich, and it's not me but those rich people they're taking from, I'll be getting some of that wealth because I'm not wealthy."

The truth is, if you pay taxes, they are taking your hard earned money and redistributing a portion of it to stay in power. This is both major US political parties.

They don't accomplish anything. The level of poverty is about 13%. It's no different than it was when the welfare system was enacted. The only successful federal program is the military.

We need to campaign to stop ourselves from using the term "redistribution of wealth" and correct everyone who does, using that moment to ask those around us to help spread "the word". They are not taking wealth. They are taking income. If you earn money, they are taking your money too. And they have never used it wisely or made better choices with it than you would have.
 
This site is about SEX - I sure as hell don't want to come here run into threads about politics, especially when its just a sounding board for right wing bull shit. When are you guys going to get it? You're failures. Americans don't tolerate losers and that's the position you're in.

Save all this crap for talk show radio. TAKE IT ELSEWHERE!
 
sc_david said:
This site is about SEX - I sure as hell don't want to come here run into threads about politics, especially when its just a sounding board for right wing bull shit. When are you guys going to get it? You're failures. Americans don't tolerate losers and that's the position you're in.

Save all this crap for talk show radio. TAKE IT ELSEWHERE!
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The off topic portion is so you have some idea what your looking at, for the most part I don't post politics either on sites like this it's just recent events made me want to say something. Chill, you can tell by the first second post what the thread is and choose a different thread. As long as were civil the moderators don't care that the "off topic" section talks about things other than interracial and cuckold sex.
 
Taxation is fraud..yes I of all people have come to that conclusion

There was a time, perhaps in my mind, that you could trust the government with your money. At the time they actually did with your hard earned tax dollars what they told you they would do with it. If such days truly existed it was a long, long time ago. Now, times are different. Socialism no longer means equalization of prosperity, rather the amassing of the citizens' wealth for the furthering of governmental authority and agenda.

I'm going to say that after reading of the financial debacle of the past year, that it may not entirely have been unplanned. It seems pretty obvious to me that loaning money to a bum is likely to be a bad idea. This principle on a massive scale was allowed with the intent of the end result being massive theft in the form of a bailout. I'm convinced.

I used to be borderline socialist, or a leftist democrat... now I guess i'm libertarian. How sad.
 
sorry man but european socialist is capitalism with a lot of entitlements but the former truly socialists nations, Russia, Georgia and much of eastern Europe have said to our leaders and others that we are loosing what made America great. They lived under socialism they are living under capitalism and they like being able to make and keep there money better and there is more of it to go around. Yes there are extreme rich people in capitalism and there are very bottom might get less but everyone in the middle does better under most capitalist systems when people are able to earn and keep more of there own money wealth increses. Governments print paper companies and the people who run them make wealth. The difference between capalism and communism is if you don't like your job you have other employer choices, if you don't like a product you have other choices. India is funding education with tax dollars but doing everything they can to get companies in while our leaders are trying to drive them out and then call companies unpatriotic when they don't like being shafted by over taxation and over regulation.
 
If America did not spend so much on wars, it could provide a fantastic health system for everyone, house the homeless with ease, and feed those hungry kids that go to school with no breakfast.

You would be stunned if you counted up the hundreds of trillions of dollars spent over the last 100 years on EXTERNAL WARS.

It is only in recent years that Americans have been ****** to get rid of the gas guzzling big cars and stop wasting oil and petrol. Huge areas of America are 30 years behind Europe.

"Blessed are the meek (poor and gentle) for they will inherit the Earth". (A quote from the Bible).

Maybe the rich in America will not be allowed health care in Heaven, simply because they grabbed more than their share on Earth.

Karma catches up with the greedy even if you suffer from the dellusion that the rich deserve and poor don't matter.

America can't win the Afganistan War, because the new Afganistan Government is not strong enough to stamp on the Taleban, and Pakistan provides a safe Haven for Osama Bin Laden and others.

Many countries are reporting an upsurge in their economies; and America is close to the bottom and will start to turn around soon. LIGHT IN THE TUNNEL IS GETTING STRONGER.
 
There are greedy rich and there are parasites at the bottom who think the world owes them for simply being a live. The fact is the more the government tries to redistribute wealth on massive scales the few people benefit. IF the government tries to own all production people are slaves to a government and have to mechanism to improve there lot without connections to the government. Maybe if they can get there ideas to the right people they may get the credit and the improve there own lot but greed socialists are worst because they get the positions of power and don't have competitive mechanisms to improve there own lot. If it is overly government regulated and taxed the ability of a company to compete is diminished and they have to cut costs and might have to cut jobs or not increase the number jobs or worst go to less strict nations. India is not known for human right violations they are trying to imrpove there economy through inventment in education and being business friendly. Chaper wages (but the cost of living is lower) and lower over all back breaking regulation makes India a good place to open a new factory rather than a US. Let's say a company wants to open 3 new factories. He might open one in the US out of loyatly and we still are a big economy but he can get good quality worker for cheaper in India, he may even open 2 where we might have gotten all three.

Capitalism tends to benefit countries more, while communityism (local level communities helping one another) benefits the smaller communities and communism benefits the government. there are many models for health care that don't put the life and death decisions in corporations or the government. Transplants and vaccines with limited numbers have the "death panels" deciding who lives and dies, we see it in Europe and Canada at almost all aspects of the health care system. Countries with economies but sinking healthcare systems. idea include more individual health insurance options, health subscriptions (kind of like insurence) and a few other options including government health systems that reward good outcomes for patient care and cost reduction by government.

I'm not completly opposed to government assisted health care, I don't trust this administration, and they have not given a plan that will work. Only reasons to have a government system and goals of said system but they don't actually give good solid plan that shows they can run the system better than the private sector other than they have deep pockets are willing to damage the economy even more to help the poor at the expense of elderly, those who have health insurnce (85%) by increasing the number but having the decrease in the quality being the most likely out come of government healthcare systems.

Look at the Beauro of indians affairs and the Veterans Administrations and you'll see the future of a single payer government controled healthcare system.
 
It is very difficult to adjust the American economy quickly during this world recession, because so many financial leaders have fudged their Balance Sheets and done dodgy stuff.

Barack Obama is winning respect from World Leaders at the moment, and is bonding them together for a United Front in a way that George Bush could not. Another two years and we will be smiling again. Bill Clinton is helping too.

Iran is the big problem at the moment, but at least they are talking with the West about their Nukes in a way they never did before. Barack is looking for a solution other than "taking the war machines in".

A lot of Americans could take the dog for a "longer walk" and reduce their need for health care.

Every man over 40 should be tossing the weights about three times per week, to build up lean muscle which burns up the calories and puts a "spring in your step" and "lead in your pencil".

Getting the right balance of (carbs:protein) cuts back appetite spectacularly and the weight melts off 1-2 pounds per week, like a hole in a water tank.
 
Poor people often feel there is no long-term hope for them to improve their station in life - rich people can have a few bad weeks, but know they still have a few million dollars in their Petty Cash tins.
 
Hi all...
i think that * loosing * the Afghan war is NOT an option, the sacrifices made so far warrant that the Afghan war MUST be won...
There are 7 * Tribal Areas * along the Pakistan - Afghanistan border, the most important one being where the famous Kyber Pass is located, A FEW GOOD MEN
are needed to permanently secure those tribal borders...

In my ( 2 pennies worth ) opinion those millions of jobs will not be created untill 2012 - 2013, hopefully the Health Care reform will soon be over and the Elected Representatives will be working ** t o g e t h e r ** on something else.
Regards
Edith
 
The world economy is fragile, not just in America, and all we can do about it is to help others worse off than ourselves. There has never been a better time THAN NOW to earn brownie points for our trip to Heaven. Lots of people are down on their luck and if you help them, they will help others when they get a chance.

If everyone did three good deeds a week, the world economy would improve a lot quicker.
 
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