want virgin gf to date others

[Knk069]

Daniel
I understand your cuckold desires. But I agree with the earlier comments that you need to see her naked this weekend. After your incident on the bus she will need to know you want her. You need to be part of her sexual exploration, even if someone else gets her virginity. Forget about her having the guys number. Your real issue is that Aaron is zeroing in on taking her virginity.

Until you explore with her you have no idea what you are giving up to him. Sex is hundreds of times better (and much quicker) than a virgin man can imagine. You have not seen her naked, sucked her breasts, caressed her pussy. From what you wrote so far she has not given you a handjob. Yet, she has done all of those with Aaron. He got there first, so now it is time for you to catch up. Her exploration with Aaron may be exciting to you because it fits with your fantasy. Unfortunately, I think your fantasy is only conceptual at this time.

Think of it this way. Let's say you never ate a cherry pie or even saw a cherry pie. Now, imagine she told you she made the most delicious cherry pie in the world and told you how good it smelled and how wonderfully it combined sweet and sour tastes. At that point you could only imagine what it smelled and tasted like. Now, if she gave it to Aaron without letting you have a taste, you would feel you missed out but only to the extent you imagined the flavor.
However, if she let you smell the pie and have just a small taste of it, you would know how wonderful that pie is. Then when she gives it to Aaron instead of you, your feeling of losing out on it would be more accurate.

So, my long winded point is - You need to experience this woman to truly know what you are giving up. Play catch up to Aaron. She will appreciate your interest. Get her naked. Start with her top and kiss those breasts and suck the nipples. When you get her jeans off, caress her pussy with your fingers between the lips (don't insert, you might break her hymen if it is still intact). Smell her moisture on your finger and taste it (try not to let her see this, it might turn her off). Finally, try to go down on her. Smell her aroma. Gently lick her pussy and enjoy the taste.

[Hint: if she is reluctant to get naked, see if you can get her to recreate the time with Aaron, she might show you.]

If you succeed, then when Jen gives her virginity to Aaron (or someone else - skater dude?) you will have a much better appreciation for what you gave up.

Good luck to you, and Jen.

 

[George]

jwff, The future will resolve the question. Daniel, I hope you continue to share and receive advice you can amalgamate.

 

[Saraha]

Jennifer and Daniel have 9 years of special memories growing up together - and their reasons for staying great mates all that time was not based on sex.

Aaron had a continuous sexual relationship over 18 months before meeting Jennifer, but he and his girlfriend realised it would not survive long-distance dating. Sex was not enough to keep them super-glued until marriage.

Daniel and Jennifer are "Default setting fall back for each other".

If Aaron steps out of line, Jennifer (could) dump him and go back to the comfort of her child-hood sweetheart, Daniel.

If Jennifer has her contraception sorted out, then she could allow a few "sexual predators" (not my words) get lucky with her (now and again).

It is important for Jennifer and Daniel to nail their exams and assignments at College, so they will have enough money to get married in their 20's. The cuckold stuff has to be "managed", so they don't funk their exams.

 

[George]

Saraha, I agree. Sex is not the end all. But right now Daniel has made Jen's sex adventures an end all for right now. And Jen has said and demonstrated that she wants to experience sex now, if not with Daniel, then with Aaron. So sex is important right now.

It's good for you to mention their academic challenges as college freshmen. It has been my experience as a professor to see freshmen underestimate the academic requirements. The earlier they catch on to the higher college expectations, the better.

We can respond to Daniel's immediate needs. That is good. We can also respond to Daniel's and Jen's longer term needs. That is also good. But to take a longer perspective one must use life experience and Daniel's descriptions to infer and interpolate their past to reasonably project their likely future. A longer view is needed for Daniel because from his writings we can see that his focus is upon the immediate and his needs. For balance it is helpful for some of us to remind him about possible future consequences and the impact his acts may have on others, especially Jen. I have used 'trigger words' and strong imagery because I feel Daniel is not listening to milder communiques, especially Jen's.

As for "sexual predator" what would you call a guy who watches a girl stranger passionately kiss her boyfriend, and then heavily hits on her, forces her to put his number in her phone, and tells her 'little brother' when trying to defend her, to stuff it. Skateboard guy detected that Jen is submissive and tried to get her to submit to him in spite of her having a boyfriend. In my world, that's a sexual predator. Jen might not remain an insecure submissive sending body language signals 'predators' can smell. But right now it appears she is.

Both Daniel and Jen are at rapid changes points in their lives. I believe all of us who comment regarding Daniel's sharing with us fully consider the significance of the questions they are dealing with. Rereading our collective comments, while we differ in approach, I feel we all are being considerate of Daniel's needs. I hope and expect we, in our individually differing ways, are helping him.

My plea to Daniel: Daniel consider and meet Jen's needs in priority to your own. That's what people in love do.

 

[jwff]

As for "sexual predator" what would you call a guy who watches a girl stranger passionately kiss her boyfriend, and then heavily hits on her, forces her to put his number in her phone, and tells her 'little brother' when trying to defend her, to stuff it. Skateboard guy detected that Jen is submissive and tried to get her to submit to him in spite of her having a boyfriend. In my world, that's a sexual predator. Jen might not remain an insecure submissive sending body language signals 'predators' can smell. But right now it appears she is.

It's a difference in terminology; what you call a 'sexual predator', I simply call an asshole.

There's a lot of assholes out there, and unfortunately we all have to deal with a few a some time or another. How Daniel and Jen dealt with this particular nut was perhaps not ideal, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. In any event, if this guy thinks he's getting anywhere, he's probably got something else coming to him, because he's an asshole.

That said, I'd like to point out that 'submissiveness' is not a universal trait. If you're submissive, sexually speaking, it doesn't mean that you behave that way for anyone. Personally speaking, I have a submissive streak in the bedroom. Despite that, in my 'vanilla' life, I tend to be extremely confrontational with people that I don't like, including members of the opposite sex; submissive is something you do for people that you like, not assholes. I don't think that Jen is 'submissive' with every single guy that comes along.

 

[George]

Re. submissiveness: Of course you're right. For social submissive we could substitute timid and complies to avoid confrontation.

 

[Saraha]

Daniel has self-hynotised himself into believing he urgently NEEDS to feel the emotions of a cuckold, and he is willing to risk losing Jennifer in the process.

I guess he is addicted, and does not realise that a lovely girl like Jennifer would be very, very difficult to replace - and she doesn't really want to lose him either.

Not many young people can see far enough ahead to notice what could go wrong, if they don't listen to the wisdom of older folk.

Some Politicians, Doctors, Magistrates, Lawyers and Accountants have admitted to excessive alcohol and dabbling with drugs at University in their formative years. Some have been caught out visiting prostitutes or down-loading pornography.

Hard to put experience onto the shoulders of young people. A teacher can give a lesson, and the pupils listening can put different interpretations on what it all means, and what they will remember about the lesson.

 

[Saraha]

Insurance salesmen are always on the lookout for vulnerable people they can sell life insurance to. They can spot opportunities at 20 paces from body language, and spin a mantra to expoit the submissive side to get a signature on paper. To some extent, you could call them predators.

 

[Daniel97]

Today I got to see Jen topless for first time. But the things did not in well.

We were in our room sitting in bed making out. I asked her how far have she went with Aaron. She told me they have made out naked. Jen was already turn on and she was much more open about Aaron.

I asked her if Aaron have kissed her breast, she nodded. Then I asked her if he have touched her pussy again she nodded and let out a soft moan. Jen face was looking flushed and was staring at the ceilling. I asked her if Aaron have fingered her pussy she did not say anything and after few seconds she asked what did i said something. Again i asked same question and she replied he have put half of his finger inside her.

I was too excited and lost in lust and gave Jen's boobs a hard squeeze, Jen suddenly got angry and said that hurts. After few awkward moment we kissed again and she asked if i wanted to see her breast. We removed our shirts. She turned around and told me to open her bra. I don’t know if opening bra is difficult or I was too nervous about it but it took me 4 tries to get it off.

I cant describe how I felt on seeing her boobs. Her breast are not big nor too small. Her pink nipples were mire erect and longer than I expected they definitely looked more erect than any porn I have watched. I don’t know what I did wrong but I touched her nipple with my fingers and suddenly she let a loud OUCH and pushed me off the bed. I fell on my back and hurt my elbow. We treated my injury its was a minor cut but the mood was broken.

Maybe I will do better next time and get to see her naked. We spent todays evening hanging out with our school friends



And please people don’t pressure me to make sexual advances as quickly as possible I don’t want to make more mistakes likes today. Its not a race I don’t need to match Aaron's pace.



On side note today I heard my brother have sex with his gf. I was in my room alone when I heard door to his room open and heard some giggles I cant make out their words but I was able to hear moaning sounds and bed creaking . I think he forget that I was in home they were not loud but I could hear them by pressing my ears to the wall. The excitement of hearing it and not cummings after the thing with jen made me very excited. I lowered my underwear and started stoking my penis I was already leaking precum and licked some of it from my fingers. And came few stokes later they had sex for 2-3 minutes more then they stopped. I heard them were talking and laughing and soon they started going at it again and must lasted for 5-10mins, I was able to come again even though my penis was semi erect.

 

[George]

Thank uou for the detailed post. Congradulations.

Homework:
Saturday morning; read on the Internet how to engage in foreplay and how to make love to a woman.
Saturday afternoon; get Jen back in your room and pratice your new knowledge.

You are making progress. Continue progressing this afternoon.

Don't mention Aaron. Pay attention to her.

 

[jwff]

Thanks for the update.

If you get the chance, try to have a talk with Jen about how you both feel about the ongoing cuckold play. Otherwise, please enjoy the rest of your holiday.

 

[George]

I must respectively disagree with jwff. You have talked more than enough about Jen and Aaron and your needs. A conversation about your cuck needs is about you, not her, and will degrade into 'tell me again what you did with Aaron'. Please remember my plea. Put her needs ahead of yours this weekend. That means not talking about her 'satisfy your cuck demands' activity. Be gently, considerate, interested in her, and loving. She deserves your loving respect. And she deserves good, gentle romanctic loving. Worship her breasts, being gentle. Worship her pussy, being gentle. Show her you love her.

 

[Saraha]

I must respectively disagree with jwff. You have talked more than enough about Jen and Aaron and your needs. A conversation about your cuck needs is about you, not her, and will degrade into 'tell me again what you did with Aaron'. Please remember my plea. Put her needs ahead of yours this weekend. That means not talking about her 'satisfy your cuck demands' activity. Be gently, considerate, interested in her, and loving. She deserves your loving respect. And she deserves good, gentle romanctic loving. Worship her breasts, being gentle. Worship her pussy, being gentle. Show her you love her.

We can't expect Daniel to know how to kiss a girl properly, or how to caress her breasts gently - in competition with Aaron who has probably had sex 250 times with his previous girlfriend.

Daniel has asked that we don't pressure him, he wants to ease into romantic stuff at a speed that feels comfortable.

George, can you suggest good quality Links that Daniel can look at, so he can learn about how women prefer to be touched.

Jennifer doesn't know enough about her body yet to be able to guide Daniel's hands around her erogenous zones.

Aaron is touching Jennifer in a way that makes her eyes glaze over in a sexual way - she is mesmerised.

Seeing Jennifer topless for the first time in 9 years, is a huge event for Daniel. Seeing her completely naked will be even more breathtaking.

We can't expect Daniel to be able to hold Jennifer in his arms in a loving embrace, and know how to kiss every inch of her body with butterfly kisses - in one weekend - and get it right.

We could be pushing him too hard, he has asked us to understand what is rushing through his mind. He doesn't want to hurt her breasts again.

He doesn't understand what caressing is. We are not dealing with a young man who has been seeking every opportunity to peep down his girlfriend's dress to look at her breasts over the last few years.

Pornography videos are not (real-to-life) enough to be able to teach "romantic touching", versus lustful one-night stand sex with actresses who have probably had sex 1,000 times.

 

[Saraha]

George, can you remember your first fumbling moves to worship a woman's body, or did she laugh at you for not knowing how to.

Daniel said from the start that he wanted Jennifer to have relationships with other boyfriends, and have sex with them if she felt ready for it.

Daniel said from day one that he wants to move slowly with Jennifer and have sex with her when it feels right for both of them. Jennifer said she was ready, but Daniel "was not ready yet".

There is some merit in a boyfriend spending 6 weeks getting to love the top part of a woman's body above her belly button, before venturing south of the border.

It feels like Jennifer is wanting Daniel to do the same romantic things to her that Aaron is doing to her, but inexperience is holding him back. It is like throwing Daniel into a Boeing 787 Dreamliner and expecting him to fly the plane to Paris with 600 passengers without passing a Pilot's licence.

 

[Saraha]

I wouldn't recommend it for Daniel, but some young men take a short cut and pay an older cougar to teach them how to make love to a woman in a pleasing way. The cougar isn't a **********, but takes a delight in helping the young man find his feet over several weeks or months.

Daniel has heard sounds of his 15-year old brother having sex with his girlfriend through the wall of the bedroom. Daniel was a good lad and decided to wait until he was of legal age.

 

[jwff]

I must respectively disagree with jwff. You have talked more than enough about Jen and Aaron and your needs. A conversation about your cuck needs is about you, not her, and will degrade into 'tell me again what you did with Aaron'. Please remember my plea. Put her needs ahead of yours this weekend. That means not talking about her 'satisfy your cuck demands' activity. Be gently, considerate, interested in her, and loving. She deserves your loving respect. And she deserves good, gentle romanctic loving. Worship her breasts, being gentle. Worship her pussy, being gentle. Show her you love her.

George, I think you're missing the point of what I'm getting at.

Any relationship thrives on open communication, and one enmeshed in a cuckolding dynamic is especially so. Partners in such a relationship need to constantly check in with one another, and ensure that the way that the dynamic is progressing is still okay for both of them. I look to SoonToBe, who is a great example of this; he and his wife talk about how the relationship is going on a pretty much constant basis, which has frequently allowed them to dodge a bullet when one or both of them are uncomfortable about how things have proceeded.

Furthermore, there's nothing 'selfish' about checking in with Jen to ensure that she's still comfortable with how things are proceeding, to determine whether she has any issues or concerns, and to explore her own interests, with the aim of incorporating them into the ongoing dynamic. Saying to your partner "Are you still okay with all this? Is there anything you'd like to do differently?" is not selfish - it's responsible.

Also, I'd add that Daniel has been rather emphatic about not wanting to hurry the sexual aspect of his relationship. For example:

And please people don’t pressure me to make sexual advances as quickly as possible I don’t want to make more mistakes likes today. Its not a race I don’t need to match Aaron's pace.

I think that we should respect Daniel's stated position in this respect. Besides, there's enough pressure as it is to be sexual in college; it's no good to be piling on further.

As I've written before, sex is not synonymous with love. Just because one person is fucking another doesn't mean that they are soulmates, bound for life.

***

As a final note, I'd point out that posters here seem to believe that Jen's previous expression of interest constitutes an open-ended invitation - i.e 'come fuck me whenever you'd like from no on'. It doesn't work like that. Any sexual encounter has to be mutual consensual, for the acts performed, at the time they are performed.

It's not as though Jen stamped Daniel's hand, and told him, "Okay, you can have me whenever you want". Some of the above posts seems to be premised on the idea that Daniel can simply waltz in and do whatever he'd like, whenever.

 

[George]

Let's not bicker among ourselves. My view is we are all right. Loving relations require balance. We are just highlighting different aspects of the balancing process. Besides, Daniel will do what fits for him at the moment.

But, I hope he spends some effort learning about loving touching in contrast to the porn touching he has seen on the Internet. I checked 'how to engage in foreplay' per Saraha's request. There are several good sites to teach Daniel.

 

[George]

I agree that generally Daniel should progress at his own pace. But he is falling behind Jen's enjoyable pace with Aaron. That wouldn't necessarily be bad EXCEPT he likely will not get Jen into his room (and never in her room) for several weeks, when she leaves Aaron for part of the Christmas break. By then Daniel may be too late to make a good intimate relations impression. By then Jen may have broken up with him or at minimum transferred her loyality and future prospects dreams to Aaron.

I get the give the poor guy a break sentiment. But Daniel has made enough bad moves already and has talked Jen into distraction. He has very little time left to recover the situation. I expect Jen is close to snapping. Aaron is soon going to have near exclusive access to Jen. And he's doing things right. How's Jen, submissive Jen, going to resist Aaron's pleasure giving?

What is Daniel to do if Jen agrees to spend the days before Christmas and the days after Christmas with Aaron in his room? How does he demonstrate the 'I'm now ready to be a complete boyfriend' message then?

We keep talking about what Daniel should or should not do and when. But the decision maker is Jen. Daniel's actions must accommodate that fact if he is to have a chance of retaining Jen as his girlfriend. Her situation and feelings dictate Daniel's most appropriate acts and their timing.

 

[Saraha]

I agree that generally Daniel should progress at his own pace. But he is falling behind Jen's enjoyable pace with Aaron. That wouldn't necessarily be bad EXCEPT he likely will not get Jen into his room (and never in her room) for several weeks, when she leaves Aaron for part of the Christmas break. By then Daniel may be too late to make a good intimate relations impression. By then Jen may have broken up with him or at minimum transferred her loyality and future prospects dreams to Aaron.

I get the give the poor guy a break sentiment. But Daniel has made enough bad moves already and has talked Jen into distraction. He has very little time left to recover the situation. I expect Jen is close to snapping. Aaron is soon going to have near exclusive access to Jen. And he's doing things right. How's Jen, submissive Jen, going to resist Aaron's pleasure giving?

What is Daniel to do if Jen agrees to spend the days before Christmas and the days after Christmas with Aaron in his room? How does he demonstrate the 'I'm now ready to be a complete boyfriend' message then?

We keep talking about what Daniel should or should not do and when. But the decision maker is Jen. Daniel's actions must accommodate that fact if he is to have a chance of retaining Jen as his girlfriend. Her situation and feelings dictate Daniel's most appropriate acts and their timing.

It is not a competition to see who wins Jennifer's heart in the next few weeks. Aaron does not have any income, so he can't suggest marriage for at least 3-4 years into the future when he finishes his education.

 

[George]

Saraha, I'm tired of debating with you. If Jen leaves him, it will be in the next several weeks. Daniel has few opportunities to left to influence the outcome. So, yes, Daniel is in a race against time. If Jen leaves him it is unlikely she will come back to him weeks, months, or years later. This is especially true given Daniel's post cuck confession behavior, the from here on lack of shared daily experiences, and that her girlfriends think she deserves better than Daniel. You are missing the big picture. No Jen means no cuck. No Jen soon means no Jen later.