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My Korean Adventure

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  • #381
cuckolding is often described with very negative flaws here on the net. cuckolding sites humiliate the bf/husband in ridiculous stupid scenarios and sometimes with sucking dick/gay actions.
when you deny yourself to your partner and push him/her to someone else you not only risk a lot - you risk everything and should think about the appreciation of the relationship and your partner.
i am not judging things. i just would be careful with pushing this too far.
there is a story on the net of a couple with kids even where trust broke and things went bad - how would you be able to prevent some selfish guy trying to take your wife and make her literally his but maybe even taking advantage of you....
the passive role might be appealing now but jeopardizing it all....
there is nothing wrong with fucking your wife without a condom and enjoying her fully.
hence the increasing sex by this slutty thing....but excluding yourself into passiveness might be leaving you without anything in the end.
just bitchy behaviour and a taking wife you can service and if your luck turns bad she runs off or the guy makes you even suck his dick and his friends as well.
you will certainly have problems at some point to steer it all and your turn ons might be already bad signals you should not ignore.
i wish you the best in this...
just be cautious and your wife already indicated things with her words and also some actions.
stay awake and do not get drowned in some horny cuckold movie you get a flavour off now but soon it could turn worse.
keep that in mind if you love your wife and take your position - the joy and fun will last longer.
it is not some machine or game you can end. reality and human minds have imprints you cannot remove.
better get some good steering now than regretting later.

i was and sometimes am considering sharing my gf with another guy or 2 and watch and particiate...
why i got into distance with it is the risk on things and certainly that has nothing to do with guts or fear.
it is logical by certain indications that you can royally fuck it up if you do not care for certain needs and functions psychologically.
Women are as they are. These steps you took should include you.
if you decide to make your wife a little slut then let her feel she is your slut.
and that means you fuck her. she needs this as much as you do and denying this moves this all into a very unhealthy direction.
i know what i am talking about as i had a gf that let me cuckold her. yes. i fucked another girl and she listened on the phone....we also shared the experience. so i know kind of both sides...
i also did some threesomes...
if you want this to be a good relationship which remains stable get not random guys but a respectful experienced guy that will take this with you to a good level that INCLUDES YOU.
your wife should not become mean, unfriendly or secretive. she is your wife and not someone else's.
Also sex should not be denied to you.
think of that if this really makes you feel good. the turn on is a temporary thing.
humiliation is some kink and turn on for a while...but what if this wears off ???
 
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  • #384
Btw, I totally agree with what delusional said. I know we all have our own kinks and stuff but I mean she is YOUR wife after all....
 
  • #385
You asked for advice in terms of a way for her to approach guys... well, in the case of Caleb, i hope she asked some of the staff if Caleb was there that night... word will definitely get back to him that a very hot asian girl was in asking for him.... perhaps this thursday she could go to the restaurant again before the bar to see if he is working this time... or maybe go to the bar at the same time he was there last week... a second encounter with him, especially if he can tell that she was perhaps seeking him out in his restaurant will be a good way for him to know that she is interested in which case he may make the first move... if they do meet again in the bar by chance i think things will just happen on their own... if he doesn't ask her number, before he leaves she could just say that she had a nice time talking with him and would love to go for a drink another time... she doesn't have to be explicit or super direct which is how she probably imagines asking a stranger for sex would be... just follow the natural flow of things and if things feel right she just needs to suggest another drink sometime... just baby steps to lead up to sex...

thats my opinion, i think over time she will gain confidence and it will be easy to her...

just wondering if there has been any further progress with Darren or if things have stopped there... how about the Artist in Korea? any texting/sexting with him recently? is he still due to come to US? when is that trip if it is going to happen?
 
  • #386
Thanks for all your comments. I hope it doesn't seem like I make unfair generalizations about Korea or Korean culture here. Everything I say here is based on my wife's perspective and the things she has told me, and I hope it's clear that these aren't judgements but merely attempts to explain who Min-Ju is as a person and what she likes and doesn't like. I try hard to be accurate and fair, though I'm sure I also get things wrong. Working to understand our cultural differences has been an important part of our journey together as a couple. I've found Korea to be a wonderful and friendly place, though I can also see why Min-Ju struggles with some of the expectations and attitudes toward women. She doesn't like traditional gender roles, and she often gets frustrated with the way some men treat her, including and especially some men in the US.

I also hope her tease about waiting a day before telling me about her trip to the bar doesn't sound like she is keeping secrets. She's not. We tell each other everything. And her "bitchy-ness" is role playing, not anything about about her real character. I really hope it doesn't sound that way. Her real self is very caring. (She often checks in with a "was that too mean, baby?" but i edit that out when i write these posts. Maybe I should stop doing that.) We are pretty inseparable really, and just tonight spent a lovely date night together free of talk about Caleb or Darren. We have a regular and robust relationship as a couple outside our play that, for obvious reasons, I don't include here. She does feel like she is my slut, but part of that is allowing her space to have her own experiences. That's a basic part of what she wants, and what we want together.

Thanks for the suggestions about ways for her to approach guys. We'll be talking about that more together.

I'll have more updates as they happen. Nothing new with Darren or the artist guy.
 
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  • #387
I take joy in how healthy your relationship is. Many couples' relationship is not deep enough to share secret desires or play with fire. I truly expect you two will have a life-long mutually beneficial relationship. Her checking in with you, 'are you OK, baby?' screams she understands this is a game WITHIN your relationship.
 
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  • #388
so... its thursday night.... whats the plan tonight? is she going to the same bar as last week? are you going to go and watch her again this week? what is she going to wear?
 
  • #389
Re. My take joy comment: However, she arranged for you to be married and visit the in-laws in chastity and surprised you with a cage all without discussing with you. And then with you safely out of the country, she finds guys to suck and fuck and spend a hotel weekend with. How does this reconcile in your mind with your 'we're doing this together' assurances. Was the set-up situational denial of her pussy in Korea something that was more pre-planed than you have shared with us? Were you bummed out when you realized you had been snookered into chastity when you thought you would get some Korea fuck time with her? Did you get what you wanted in your first 4 weeks of marriage? Did you get what you expected?
 
  • #390
Yesterday Min-Ju had to work the evening shift so she couldn't do our Thursday trip to the bar, and I was out with friends. But we are planning to go to Caleb's restaurant tonight. Hopefully he'll be there. Min-Ju wants to see him again, and she's trying to work up the nerve to go talk to him. We'll see what happens!

Keep in mind Min-Ju is real woman with complex and sometimes conflicting feelings. She wants to explore her sexual feelings and have some of the experiences she didn't get to have when she was younger. She likes playing the part of the slutty girl, but she feels comfortable exploring that part of her only because she knows I don't see her that way (as a slut) and I support her without judgement. She knows that I want her to be able to explore that side of her. This is also part of why I let her have her own space. I want this to be her experience -- though of course I want to be part of it too, and am part of it.

The side she shows other guys is still hard for her, though. She doesn't like sexualizing herself for other men -- that is, she doesn't want to just be an object for them. She also doesn't like when guys approach her with stereotyped ideas about Asian women. Part of why she liked me when we first started dating is she knew I didn't think that way. She often says I was the first guy she met that treated her like a real person. With other guys, she wants to be seen as a real person who can enjoy herself with them, but who has a life outside of them. That's a big part of why she felt more comfortable with the artist guy. He knew her first and foremost as an accomplished young artist who was working to bring some of his art to the U.S. Sharing Korean culture is important to her. So they had a professional relationship based on respect -- and sex then became a part of that. At the same time, since he knows she's married happily, it's easier for her to then step away from that when she wants to.

I think that's also part of why she likes Caleb. He didn't immediately hit on her or try to manipulate her. He talked with her as a person about things they have in common: their love of food and cooking. Sure, it helps that she thinks he's good looking and sexy. She seems to be fascinated by the tattoo. And yes, she likes knowing that she looks sexy and that helps her feel confident.

Finding the right way to approach a guy, then, is still confusing for her. Part of it is about confidence. But part of it is about finding a way that, as a woman, she can go up to a guy as say "Hey, I want to have sex" without feeling like she is saying "Hey, treat me like a sex object."

Does that make sense?
 
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  • #391
Yes it does make sense. As you say people are complicated with many cross-currents. Decisions are made sometimes by our reptilian brain, particularly regarding survival, food, sex, and retreat from/fight against danger. At the more intellectual level each emotion and consideration gets a vote, no votes having equal weight. The aggregation of the votes and current changing circumstances, and instant emotion state determine action. So yes, she is complex and conflicted, that is, she is normal.
Try to get her to separate having fun from developing relationships. Some 'bad boys' are just good to fuck. She is using them, not them using her. So no need to feel exploited. Sometimes she will find a good guy to fuck. That is a win-win, but not essential for a fun fuck fest standing on its own merits. Korean artist is an example of a good guy fuck, good in that she relates to him on a mutual respect level. That is not always going to be the case. If she rejects flawed good-to-fuck guys she will be missing some experiences she wants--one of them being naughty and abandoned herself.
It is naughtier to fuck Mr. Wrong just for the fuck of it, than to succumb to Mr. Right's talents. With Mr. Wrong she is in control and can fuck him in spite of his defective attitude. With Mr. Right she is less sure she is a fully free agent because to some extent she fell under his sway. With Mr. Wrong, sometime she can tell herself or SunYon that she fucked him because she wanted a nasty fuck, nothing more.
 
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  • #392
Do you have time this weekend to share with us more details about past or recent adventures? Still wanting to know more.
Min-Ju's cousin knows she went on a hotel date with Korean artist. Does Sooyun?
 
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  • #393
it is great that you are going to his restaurant together tonight... i really hope he will be there and she finds the courage to go over and talk with him while you sit at the table and watch... she doesn't have to be too explicit, just say that she had a nice time chatting with him at the bar before and that she hopes they can get a drink together again sometime... unless he is an idiot I'm pretty sure he will know whats what and he would then suggest they swap numbers or he would arrange a time...

what will she be wearing tonight?

i guess what you are trying to say in terms of what Min-Ju is seeking is the opportunity to be able to be a little slutty on the side without being treated or viewed like a slut...

i hope things work out tonight and you have an awesome date night.... looking forward to hearing how it goes..
 
  • #394
We arrived at the restaurant and were seated at a booth. Both of us were looking around, but no sign of Caleb, which was disappointing. I have to say though, it was cute to see Min-Ju making her frustrated face. She wanted to see Caleb, but more than that I think she was feeling frustrated and embarrassed that her plans to find him kept not working out. She seemed embarrassed and annoyed, and I was a little worried our night out would end badly with her just wanting to go home. But we ordered drinks. Alcohol perked things up, and I tried to get her thinking about other things. I shrugged and told her, "Let's just have a fun night out. Don't worry about it, baby."

We ordered. The food was really good. Then we saw him! It was me who caught sight of him first, actually. I was in the middle of saying something and trailed off. My face flushed. My first impulse was to point him out, but I stopped myself -- I wanted Min-Ju to spot him herself. Somehow it seemed to take forever... but then she saw him. Her eyes were travelling around the room, then her head whipped around to me. She was excited, smiling. You could hear it in her voice. "Baby, there he is!" she whispered. Eager but shy, she directed my gaze over to the bar on the far side where Caleb was busy mixing drinks. As she pointed him out, I felt my dick shrink in its cage. Min-Ju was pointing out the man she wanted to fuck. I felt it. She was showing me the man she was going to let inside her pussy and make me a cuckold. The rush I felt is... hard to describe.

Her reaction was cute to watch, too. She hunched her shoulders and whispered, as though she was trying to hide, as though she was doing something naughty. We were just having dinner and he was all the way across the room with no way to hear us, and very unlikely to notice us. It was cute. I kept telling her it was a good idea to come here tonight after all, I wanted her to feel good about her decisions, and encouraged her to go talk to him. She laughed and said she couldn't. She didn't know what to say. Obviously and understandable, she felt shy and awkward.

"Look," I said, "He was telling you about this special small-batch bourbon they had, right? Why don't you just go up to the bar and ask him what kind it was? Tell him you want to try it." She liked that idea, but it took another 10 minutes or so of convincing and confidence building. But then she got up.

It was incredible watching her walk over there, let me tell you. My sexy wife walking across the restaurant to flirt and chat with another man... She looked amazing. Her hips swayed as she walked. I felt nervous and anxious big time. I also felt really proud. I was proud of Min-Ju for taking charge this way.

He recognized her coming over, I could tell. His face opened into a smile, and they exchanged a friendly greeting. How I wish I could have been close enough to hear. She leaned against the bar, awkward at first, but after a few minutes she seemed to relax a bit. They were chatting. A couple times he ducked away for a moment to take an order or make a drink, but he kept coming back. Then Min-Ju waved to him and she was coming back my way. She had only been there maybe 5 minutes. Her phone never came out and her hands were empty, so I feared maybe it wasn't so successful after all. But she was smiling.

"Hi," she said, all coy and shy and excited when she sat back down. "Well?" I asked. She laughed; my own eagerness and awkwardness must have really shown. "I ordered some bourbon for us. He's going to bring it over," she said with a smile. Clearly she was very proud of herself. She glanced over her shoulder to make sure he wasn't looking, then leaned over the table and gave me a big kiss. Lots of tongue. She was hot, and believe me, so was I.

It was an awkward few minutes as we waited. We made stilted small talk, almost like we were the ones on a first date. Both of us were straining not to watch for him, so when he finally appeared at our booth he started us both. "Your bourbon," he said, carefully but firmly placing a glass first in front of Min-Ju and then in front of me. His voice was deep. He seemed relaxed and friendly, and I could immediately sense the charisma that she liked in him. He proceeded to tell us about the bourbon and how it was made in a professional but friendly manner. He was standing by Min-Ju and mostly addressing her, but he moved his attention back and forth between us. The bourbon was served with a hint of habanero so he warned us sometimes it can be a little spicey. She brought the glass to her lips and took a big sip.

"What do you think, Min-Ju?" he asked. He used her name! Hearing this guy address my wife in such a friendly and familiar way... wow! She smiled up at him and said, "I really like it!" He was clearly pleased. "I knew you'd like it. It's such a great bourbon, so clean and pure." He talked to Min-Ju about it a little more, then he turned to me and asked what I thought. Awkwardly, Min-Ju said, "Oh, sorry, this is XXXX." The fact that she was introducing me only now I know was really because of the surprise and awkwardness of the whole encounter. After all, this was the very first time my wife was talking to another man in front of me. Still, the way introducing me became an afterthought was humiliating and arousing. I was being sidelined, and felt it.

Still, he reached over and shook my hand. We talked back and forth a bit about the bourbon and about the restaurant. It was intimidating, awkward... and fun. Somewhere along the line, the shoulder strap of her dress had slid off her shoulder a bit, leaving the top of her left breast *******. I asked her later if this was deliberate, and she confessed it was. She felt really embarrassed about it, but she wanted his attention back on her. (When she told me this later, I laughed.) Standing above her as he was, he must have enjoyed quite a view, and I could kill to know just what he saw. He never leered or looked openly, but I'm sure he noticed. I'm sure, too, he was aware her attention was focused on him more than me. There was an... I don't know... and energy coming from him... and from her. Even though the whole thing was on the surface perfectly innocent and friendly, it felt like he knew she wanted him... and that he could have her. Or I don't know, maybe that was all in my head.

The whole encounter was only a few minutes, even if it felt so much longer. He was at work, and soon he had to duck away. There was a flurry of talk between us as we processed what had happened and how we felt about it. The bourbon was guzzled down rather quickly. Probably we could have both used another round. She asked if I was ok, and I assured her I was. She in turn assured me she felt good about things. "This is fun!" she said, laughing. We both laughed a lot, burning off our nervousness I guess. Contact had definitely been made. But they still haven't traded numbers or broke through the tension building between them about what was really going on. I urged her to just go up to him after dinner and give him her number. "It can be as simple as that," I said. She agreed intellectually, and seemed to be getting close to being ready to do it.

At the end of dinner, I paid the check while Min-Ju got up to go to the restroom. As I was taking care of the check, I looked up and saw she was at the bar again! Then we were leaving together. Min-Ju put her hand on my arm, leaning into me breathless, and said, "I did it, baby." Sure enough, she said she stopped by to say goodbye. He said he was happy to see her (she keeps thinking as though he'll lose interest or doesn't really like her), and before she knew it she was letting it spill out of her mouth. She said something about maybe hanging out sometime, she couldn't remember the exact words, and she put her number into his phone.

So yeah, wow.

There's stuff I haven't gotten to yet -- I'll write more as a can.
 
  • #395
this is great... it is awesome that she built up the courage to go and approach him both times and the fact that she gave him her number is a huge step forward and will be a good confidence builder for her, having proven to herself that she can do it... doing the same again in the future will come a little easier to her...

i can only imagine how humiliating it must have felt for you as you sat there watching on while your wife was at the bar flirting with the man she had just pointed out to you as someone she is pursuing for a sexual affair...

i really hope that he will not be afraid to text her because of her being a married woman, hopefully he was able to read the situation while at the table chatting with you both and understand that you are cool with it... if he does text you should encourage her to be a little more forward and clear with him in terms of the situation... this type of thing is usually a lot easier via text...

i can't wait to hear about the stuff you haven't got to yet!! keep it cuming.... (the story that is.. cause we all know you ain't cuming any other way, lol)

Also... Its really hot how she let her top slip off her shoulder to give him a better view while he while standing at the table... Working in bars and restaurants myself I know for a fact that he would have had a great view and I'm sure it didn't go unnoticed!
 
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  • #396
After our trip to the restaurant Friday, we went home and had some really hot sex -- well, she had the sex... -- and some fun tease and conversation. I was planning to try to post about that yesterday, but then this happened. As we were starting to make dinner together Saturday, Min-Ju came over and showed me her phone. She had this grin like the cat had gotten into the cream. It actually took me a few moments to realize what I was looking at. A text from Caleb!

"Hey, wanna grab that drink 2morrow?"

"Know a cool spot"

(I judge the hell out of him for that "2morrow". EDIT: I guess this is me trying to tear down the guy who is probably going to get inside my wife.)

I looked at her, and she was looking at me, both of us trying to read each other. "Well," I said, "are you going to text back?" "Want me to?" she laughed awkwardly. We had already talked through this last night, but it was suddenly real and in the broad sunlight of early evening it felt really different. "The rules say you have to write back," I said. She gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek. "An enthusiastic yes!" she said. "There's just one problem." My heart sank a little hearing that, thinking she was wanting to back out, while at the same time I suppose I felt relieved. But I was misunderstanding. Turns out her period started Saturday morning -- which actually maybe helps explain why she was so adventurous at the restaurant. She gets weirdly extra horny right before her period. So anyway, we had to have a mini conversation about that. She could still go Sunday, but she wouldn't feel comfortable having sex -- or she could postpone. She said going Sunday might feel safer in some ways, like a test run, but as much as we were excited both of us liked the idea of having some time to really process things and feel ready. So we opted for her texting back a white lie.

"Yes! Love to. Can't Sunday though - work"

His reply was pretty immediate:

"S'ok later on then"

We spent a little time trying to figure out what that meant. Min-Ju of course went straight to the negative, deciding this meant he lost interest. I'm trying to convince her it's a question, as in "Is there another day that works better?" rather than a brush off. I laughed, "What part of guys don't you understand." It was kind of fun helping her set up her date together actually. I convinced her to suggest a day, so she wrote back:

"How about Thursday?"

His reply again was quick:

"Work Thurs, can do Wed?"

I watched as Min-Ju typed our her response:

"It's a date"

So yeah, that happened. Not only does she have something set up with Caleb in a few days, she's called it a "date." She gave me a big hug and we kissed deeply. Suddenly we both had a lot of extra nervous energy. She asked how I felt, and I asked how she felt. She said she's nervous and excited, she's not sure what she really wants to do, if anything, and said she feels "really lucky to have you." That was so sweet to hear and felt really good. I told her I was proud of her for following the rules and for being so bold. She laughed and said, "I know! I'm pretty surprised with myself." I said I liked seeing her confident this way.

Dinner got a little sidetracked. And both of us were acting silly and playful that night -- processing and redirecting our nervous energy I guess. I didn't sleep super well last night, but I feel good this morning.

There is something I could use some help and advice on. Just what do you guys think Min-Ju should say about me to Caleb? He saw and met me at the restaurant, and she introduced me -- but actually neither she nor I are sure just what she said about me. Both of us think she just said my name, not "boyfriend" or "husband." How do you think he was reading that situation? Either way, it seems he felt signals were clear enough to ask her out. Min-Ju really doesn't want to lead him on, and definitely doesn't want complications, but she also feels awkward about just laying things out on the table. At least right away. And I can see why letting things just happen organically feels easier for her. What are your suggestions?

The other thing that Min-Ju pointed out yesterday is that Saturday marked the end of my 30 day chastity sentence from SooYun, except, as she pointed out, I didn't make it. "You got a few releases and cums, after all," she said. We agreed we needed to have a conversation about that, and about what she should tell SooYun, but that got pushed to the side given our new developments with Caleb.
 
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  • #397
love it, love it, love it!! it is so great to be watching this story from the sideline as it develops... i can only imagine how exciting it must be for you actually living it...

it is wonderful that she has already made it quite clear to him that "its a date"... you could even try to convince her to possibly sent him some nice pics of herself before their date... not explicit pics, maybe just some cute selfie of herself, a little bit of skin showing but in a classy way, with a "looking forward to our drink soon" message... this could start things going in terms of texting/ breaking the ice a little perhaps? what do others think/suggest?

in terms of what she discusses in relation to you, i think she shouldn't mention you on the first date at all unless he brings it up... it seems like she is hoping for this first date to lead to sex straight away or at least for that to be an option so i think if he fucks her on the first date anyway he isn't going to be too worried if she already has a bf/husband or not... if he doesn't ask and things progress down the road she is hoping it will then in a few weeks she can assess how things are going with him and then open up to him and explain the situation as it stands...

if he does ask on the first date, i think she should let him know that she is "involved with the man she was having dinner with at his restaurant but she is also free to date who she wishes" and a sexy naughty little grin right on cue there should be all it takes to progress things along...

by not being too detailed or specific at that point leaves it open for him to interpret how he wishes and she can always revisit the subject down the road if needs be and explain in more detail...

in terms of your chastity period, i distinctly remember you stating a Sept 1st release date... that was your 30 days plus the 9 extra days... so i think what with your extra days of release recently also you still have quite a ways to go before you are fully released again... i imagine that SooYun will be none to pleased that you were released and have orgasmed when under her instructions of a full 30 days so i imagine that there could possibly be some punishment time added.... and now with Min-Ju possibly having found a suitable fuck buddy and the rules you have in play in relation to an extra day for each time she makes a man cum... well... lets put it this way... you might be lucky if you get out of your cage by Sept 1st... NEXT YEAR... lol

anyway... congrats on everything that you have with Min-Ju and it is great to see you both supporting each other through all this... i really can't wait to find out how her date goes....
 
  • #398
Like what mystTiger said, I think Minju should not mention it on the first date unless asked. If Caleb does ask about her relation to you, I think that Minju should flat out say who you are and that you are a cuckold or at least that you guys have an open relationship (he will probably see that as he can fuck her but he probably won't get too emotionally invested that way). If she says she is free to date whomever, I feel like he might take it as he can try to take her away from you.
 
  • #399
Yes, Saturday would have been the end of SooYun's 30 days, except for those releases. Min-Ju allowed them, but of course SooYun didn't authorize that and as she's pointed out, those 30 days were SooYun's. So yes, there's going to have to be some reckoning. The extra 9 days my wife racked up from her naughty adventures in Korea bring things to Sept 9. You're quite right that things with Caleb may soon lead to more days. I actually hadn't registered that until you said it, Mystiger. But there's a bigger problem. Min-Ju reminded me that the rule says "an extra day for every time she makes a man cum," and as she points out, she totally made me cum during those releases. So those add days. Eek.

Thanks for the feedback about what she should tell him and when. We tend to be of the same mind, that not saying anything more specific right now is best. She doesn't want to hurt his feelings though. I know I would be hurt if I were in his shoes, because I'm relationship minded and would be hoping for something more, but somehow he strikes me as more hook-up oriented. Not being that kind of guy, I'm not sure how he will read the situation, so it's good to have others' perspectives.

I totally want to encourage her to flirt-text a little, but we want to figure out what to say or not to say first. She doesn't want to get caught off guard. It's funny, reading back over those texts they don't sound like much out of context. But wow, watching as they texted back and forth was pretty dang hot.
 
  • #400
I agree. She shouldn't bring you up. If he does I think she should tell the truth, but as little as is sufficient. If she gives him a physical sign whilr answering, a hand squeeze, a sexy come hither smile, or ..., that will provide much of the essential answer. The essential answer is that she is free to play, and at minimum you are not a problem. Your very existance will cause him to hold off on relationship thoughts until things clarify. Of course the clarification coming in its own time is that her heart and life parther elements are taken by you, but her body can be his first as her lover, and a rewarding fun releationship with him is both allowed and dersired, ultimately by both of you.
 
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