Military propaganda ban is stupid!

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metalore

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Dec 28, 2006
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So I read today that Congress is on the way to passing a bill to prevent the military from using propaganda.

Hello, the military is SUPPOSED to promote itself. It´s SUPPOSED to make it´s country proud of it. It´s SUPPOSED to focus on its successes more than its failures. It´s SUPPOSED to encourage optimism. That´s what makes the military great.

So stupid, the only reason they´re doing this is because they´re frustrated that they feel helpless against the White House administration and they want to take it out on the military instead. In their search for a place to apply pressure they´ve made the mistake of grouping military propaganda (which is good) with the blatant lies and misleading information that the Executive branch is giving out (which is bad).

This is just like when they were grilling General Petraeus, asking pointed political questions that they had no business asking a military commander, just because they wanted somebody to place the blame on for the presidential group´s mistakes. The military is the last group to keep their head out in the open because they are confident in their own virtue and they become the targets of the weak good guys because of it!

What they need to do is apply a vacuum instead of pressure, in order to suck out the corruption. But I think they don´t have enough faith for that.

This is the kind of stuff that gives the military good reason to engage in a coup -- when the self-righteous are not righteous enough to stop the corruption, but instead feed it. Time to wipe out the corrupt AND the incompetent.
 
Absolutely- if the people in charge of Congress and these non-profits today had this kind of power back in WWII we would NOT have won that war- we would have been ****** to walk away after D-day is we lasted even that long
 
fucking pussies....let the military do it;s job...freedom is not free and the only reason they have the "balls" to do this is because soldiers protect them. Put one of those bastards alone on the street and see if they act the same way...
 
This is bullshit as the people anymore cry at everything a person does in a war. Have we forgot what a war is it is not a place you go shake hands and say dont do that a war is something people do what they can to survive and win for what ever purpose. As long as we let the fucking media run or Country and show the negative shit all the time I feel sorry for a person in uniform with the negative shit that flows out of the media I say fuck them all and shut the goddam media out of the wars.
 
Congress is full of cowards, hypocrites, idiots and assholes. 'How long will this war take?' What kind of idiots r they? It takes as long as it takes. Would these idiots ask Eisenhower how long it will take to beat the Nazis? These idiots just want to make points with anti-war voters.
 
Rhino said:
Congress is full of cowards, hypocrites, idiots and assholes. 'How long will this war take?' What kind of idiots r they? It takes as long as it takes. Would these idiots ask Eisenhower how long it will take to beat the Nazis? These idiots just want to make points with anti-war voters.
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My dad served in Viet Nam as a Marine and is a Bronze Star and 2 purple heart recipiant. My brother served in the first Iraq as a Marine grunt also. We all are opposed to this war because it has accomplished absolutly NOTHING except getting our young men killed and maimed. If we cant win it and get out.....then we should just plain get out. We had a purpose in WW2...even Korea and Viet nam were "supposed" to contain Communism We are bankrupting ourselves in this venture for no reasion I can see...The USA is no safer now than it was on 9/11 and going to hell in a Bush handbasket. My $.02:bitch:
 
Rhino said:
Congress is full of cowards, hypocrites, idiots and assholes. 'How long will this war take?' What kind of idiots r they? It takes as long as it takes. Would these idiots ask Eisenhower how long it will take to beat the Nazis? These idiots just want to make points with anti-war voters.
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Well said
 
The fact is that the military has been caught creating false press reports and distributing them as coming from real reporters, they created a committee of journalists that they flew around the world, had private meetings with, and these reporters always reported favorably about the war even when things were really bad.
The Pentagon has ALWAYS been prohibited from domestic propaganda distribution, not foreign. However, in this war they chose to ignore that. Whether or not there is a need for more law or just an administration that respects the law is debatable, however.

And before anyone questions my patriotism. My father served in WWII, my brother was wounded in Vietnam, my husband served in Vietnam, my other 3 brothers served in the military, my sons have served in both Afghanistan and Iraq, one is in Iraq now.

The American people deserve the truth, not propaganda. To even suggest that it's OK for the government to lie to us is contrary to the principles this country was founded upon.
 
Rhino said:
Congress is full of cowards, hypocrites, idiots and assholes. 'How long will this war take?' What kind of idiots r they? It takes as long as it takes. Would these idiots ask Eisenhower how long it will take to beat the Nazis? These idiots just want to make points with anti-war voters.
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It completely escapes me how you can compare the war in Iraq with WWII. There is absolutely no validity to that analogy.

When a war that was supposed to take months and cost us nothing last 5 years and cost 2 trillion dollars, I personally demand that my representatives find out why. It may actually be one of the few useful things these clowns have done in the past 8 years.
 
The fact remains that it is illegal for the Pentagon to distribute propaganda domestically and has been. The fact also remains that Bush's administration is the first to skirt the law so blatantly.

Congress and the white house propagandizing have nothing to do with a military institution doing it. Drawing parallels is invalid. The military is here to serve, not to influence domestic public opinion nor to exercise any military power domestically. Yet another basic tenet of our democracy that so many are willing to toss aside in the name of expediency and 'patriotism'.

Your wish to blur the issue with non-military governmental attempts at propaganda and quoting lines from a movie(?) don't change the danger of a military exercising it's budget and power to influence the will of the people.
 
The military is not a political organization, so if it is doing anything dishonest to alter the political landscape, it is coming from a political source, in this case the executive branch. The root cause of the main problems in the U.S. is coming from the executive branch. Everybody else is just following orders.

Congress has failed to draw out the executive branch and hold it accountable. They are holding others (e.g. military commanders) accountable either out of frustration, ignorance, or desire to appear powerful.
 
I agree with that, metalore. That being said, the CIC is the one that controls the military other than the budget and having the military appear before hearings to update congress of progress, etc.. In actuality the legislative branch can't hold military commanders accountable. Thankfully , we finally have a Secretary of Defense that is finally willing to do so in Gates. Even then the fact that we finally are holding the AF leadership accountable for their boondoggles and mishandling of nuclear devices in an election year raises my suspicions of political rather than pragmatic motives.
 
SOme people are so out of it they cant see straight- back in WWII war propoganda was common- how else do you keep the populace energized and behind the war effort? I'll go back to the same comment I make everytime the leftist spew their drivel- if you people had the power then that you have now, we would have been ****** to quit during the training exercises for D-Day-
It has been 9 yrs since Osama Bin laden gave an interview with ABC in which he says that the lack of will and resolve to fight on behalf of the American people and its leaders is what showed him that he could attack and defeat the US at will- he cited not only the hasty retreat from Somalia after ONE battle, the lack of response to the numerous attacks of the 1990s and our retreat from Lebanon as examples. Hey let's cut and run again that will sure teach them a lesson- you idiots.
 
hmmmm...funny
 
the fact remains, without a strong military that the rest of the world respects...you would have no rights to speak as you do.
 
Will, I'm not going to bother with your blather anymore, You seem to be unable to debate issues, just ramble all over the place. Research Posse Comitatus if you have the time, catch up on current events, find 'leftist' media that did not support the Iraq and Afghanistan wars initially and then talk to me. Learn that SCOTUS, a term you use with such derision, is a branch of government that our founding fathers felt was necessary to protect the constitution, not something to discard because you don't agree with their decisions.

Recognize that public opinion shifted, not because of the media but because of incompetence in PLANNING what was supposed to be an easy, cheap war against a 3rd world country. Of course that brings us back to the base issue. The military propaganda was designed to convince Americans that we were succeeding at a war when we weren't. If it wasn't for the media that you so despise, we probably would be still watching our guys have insufficent armor, too few boots on the ground and Cheney still telling us we are on the verge of winning. Having loved ones over there risking their lives for the likes of you and your low opinion of our sytem and way of life makes me wonder why bother sometimes. I have to say though I am grateful to the media, left or right, that pointed out our shortcomings in this war effort. My boys were and are safer because of them, not because people like you feel that Bush's policies should be defended at any cost, including our boys lives.

But, above all, try to have a discussion without resorting to putting words in my mouth, bringing other topics in to mask ignorance of the topic at hand, and being so defensive of a failed administration that you can't see current events nor our political system as anything but your enemy.

Then perhaps I'll return to discussion with you. Your lack of civility, inability to focus and/or reason just don't make it worth the effort at this time.
 
vtjames742 said:
SOme people are so out of it they cant see straight- back in WWII war propoganda was common- how else do you keep the populace energized and behind the war effort? I'll go back to the same comment I make everytime the leftist spew their drivel- if you people had the power then that you have now, we would have been ****** to quit during the training exercises for D-Day-
It has been 9 yrs since Osama Bin laden gave an interview with ABC in which he says that the lack of will and resolve to fight on behalf of the American people and its leaders is what showed him that he could attack and defeat the US at will- he cited not only the hasty retreat from Somalia after ONE battle, the lack of response to the numerous attacks of the 1990s and our retreat from Lebanon as examples. Hey let's cut and run again that will sure teach them a lesson- you idiots.
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Again the leftist drivel has done us in.

Right wing uproar against a Democrat administration is what halted all those actions you're speaking about, not leftist drivel. Unfortunately, partisan politics are the cause of our lack of resolve both then and today, not the left nor the right nor the people, IMHO. It's one party feeling it has to weaken and undermine the other to win the next election.

Incidentally, I've never sanctioned cut and run, whatever that is. On the other hand I'm not willing to devote unending resources to a no win proposition. Somewhere there is a balance.
 
rover1 said:
the fact remains, without a strong military that the rest of the world respects...you would have no rights to speak as you do.
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Unfortunately, thanks to the failures in Iraq, the subsequent weakening of our military, the lack of will of our leaders to support a military (re: taxes to support our military's strength and a draft to enable enough troops) our military is barely respected in the world today.

Else why would Iran, North Korea, most of South America, Russia and China amongst others be thumbing their noses at us?
 
Will & Eve said:
Yet over and over again common ordinary soldiers come home and tell us what we see in the media is hell and gone from what THEY saw on the ground.
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My last point to you -

As someone that over the course of these two wars has been in constant contact with many of those common ordinary soldiers, I can tell you that most of them felt that the American people weren't told enough of the truth of what was going on there and that the media didn't go far enough particularly in the first few years to warn us of what was occuring.
And still to this day not enough attention is being paid to the either the mentally or physically wounded nor the true cost of the war to our boys.

But then again , that doesn't fit neatly into let's just lower taxes for everyone, does it? Taking care of Vets cost money and effort, god forbid. Besides America doesn't want to deal with it. We want our wars on the cheap now, even if we believe we're fighting the biggest threat to our way of life in this generation.

What hypocrisy.
 
Incidentally, anyone interested in what caused this whole uproar in the first place, might want to start with this story published by the Wall Street Journal regarding the suspension of the Pentagon 'Military Analyst' briefing program. It's a pretty good summation of the whole episode.

Pentagon ends retiree analyst briefings - MarketWatch


The most interesting part to me is that many of these analysts which were used by almost all the broadcast media outlets were not only given talking points by the military to promote but also had lobbyist and business positions that benefited by their insider info and access to the Pentagon.
 
Been there, done that...

Folks, great thread and I enjoyed reading most of the posts. I don't intend to get into one-on-one's with anyone, especially since my intent is not to poke a finger in someone's eye who posted something that I think is "wrong". This is an open discussion so let me say my peace and move on.

As for the military printing their own stories in the media, that's not true. I believe someone was talking about the Lincoln Group in Baghdad back on 2005 or 2006. They are a contracting firm that was investigated and found to have broken NO LAWS, nor did the military "order" them to break any laws. But, by the time the investigation cleared everyone, the liberal media had made their point (per agenda) and they certainly were not going to go back and correct "their mistake"...at least nowhere before page 8.

The surge is working (worked). Al Qaeda has lost almost all credibility (and stregnth) in Iraq. The Iraqis have turned against radical Islam and in all actuality, were always against it for the most part. The majority of the insurgents killed and captured in Iraq came from other countries. These were mostly the poor and uneducated who listened to radical "propaganda" of the anti-West terrorist groups (and Iran & Syria and Allah knows who else).

Most generals and admirals don't make that rank if they're stupid or unethical. To get to that level, they are highly educated and very dedicated to the military profession. Yes, there are lawyers in the government and even in the military to advise commanders about making the right decisions and there is nothing wrong with that. Sure, there are some self-serving high ranking generals jockying for their own gain after they retire, but for the most part, I ask that the American public have faith and confidence in those leaders...and I believe the public does.

It seems people forget that in WWI, the US lost over 126,000 (dead) in only roughly 18 months of fighting. We lost (around) 380,000? (dead) in about five years during WWII. We lost over 50,000 in Korea in only three years. I am here to tell you that even ONE US life is wrenching and sad. However, you have a media that will gladly give you the total number of US KIAs so far, but refuse to post the number of ENEMY KIAs next to our losses. Again, I mean no disrespect to the families left behind. Trust me, I was almost killed in Iraq so do not think for one second that my comments here are to be taken lightly. You may be saying, yeh, but the wars you mentioned above had a "cause". Well, let me say this. I didn't think we needed to go into Iraq, but we're there now and if we leave, the Iranians will take our place and you'll see $8.00 per gallon and higher...not to mention a looming war over Israel. So, either way, we'd be right back in the region losing even more US lives.

Finally, for those of you who accuse the US government or the military of "still being there", I am here to tell you that the majority of the problem is the corrupt Iraqi government. Those "officials" only know Saddaam's way of business and that is corruption. They know we can't leave them defenseless and so, they drag their feet while we spend US treasure and blood there. Only recently have they started to show initiative and taking responsibility for their own country. And, this is proven by the drop in violence throughout the country. BUT!!!, don't be fooled by the media telling you about that ONE car bomb that went off in the market in Baghdad...forgetting to tell you that in 2006 30-45 car bombs a day were going off in Baghdad alone.

So, please allow me to ask that unless you have been in Iraq (in uniform), don't tell me my views are wrong. I was in a very "strategic" location in 2006 during the US mid-term elections. I watched reporter after reporter after report flow into the country to "get the word out" about the war. I saw them leave in droves within a day or two before the elections started. They had done their jobs. 90% of what I saw or read in the media contained words such as quagmire, stalemate, bogged down, taking cover, stalled...So, please, take what I've written here for what it's worth. If you don't like it, that's fine, but don't attack me when I had a front row seat.
 
You ought to get a grip and a little , just a little perspective. What are you going to do after January when Bush is no longer there-who are you going to rant at then and meanwhile you miss understanding world events or even perhaps notice them
 
I don't disagree with your assessment of the situation in Iraq and thank you for your service.
I do think the surge alone isn't makiing things better there but a combination of changed polices in addition to the surge, such as how we deal now with the Sunni insurgents, etc. Regardless of all that, I hope and pray that our efforts stand the test of time. That we aren't helping building up a future enemy in western Iraq and other parts of the country as we did with our past policies towards Bin Laden.

My son was there in 2004 and we were bogged down then, unfortunately the media never gave up on that premise and still to this day I don't think like admitting much that there is progress. And you're right, we can't just abandon it now, I agree with that also. Some here like to put those words in my mouth but so be it. I know how I feel. Yes, I'm frustrated that we're still there, who isn't? It doesn't follow that I want us to leave and abandon it. Some people just can't accept frustration for what it is. If this whoile thing was thought out properly in the first place we'd either never have gone there or we would have expended the troops and money to do it right up front.

I'm allowed to be frustrated, it's my right, lol. And I'm allowed to despise Bush and his flunkies for fucking it up in the early years too. Anyone who denies me that and preaches patriotism doesn't understand freedom or the American way, IMHO.

I'm the one that's spent the last 6 years worrying about my sons(and all the other men I've met and gotten to know), who has to deal with issues I won't go into here with my oldest . I won't allow anyone to tell me I can't express my disgust with incompetence and or lies due to a misguided understanding of patriotism. Nor will I allow them to call me unpatriotic, left wing nut, or any other belittling term they come up with because I don't agree with them

Just not my style.
 
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