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Race Issue with Obama this time from DEMOCRATS???? lol

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blkoralslaveboy

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Well, apparently we can agree on everything but race... from AP news:

Political Pulse | The Associated Press-Yahoo! News Poll on Yahoo! News

Poll: Racial views steer some white Dems away from Obama
By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSON, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles.

The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.

Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

Adjectives that describe blacks

More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.

Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.

"There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.

The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.

The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home — among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.

The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.

Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.

Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.

On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.

Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.

Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.

Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.

Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.

But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.

The AP-Yahoo News poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.

Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.

"We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.

Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.

Among white Democrats, one third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.

The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."

Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.

Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."

Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."

The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.

Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes — including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.

Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.

Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes.

The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.

———

Associated Press writers Nancy Benac, Julie Carr Smyth, Philip Elliot, Julie Pace and Sonya Ross contributed to this story.

———

On the Net:

Polling site: Political Pulse | The Associated Press-Yahoo! News Poll on Yahoo! News
 
Why doesn't anyone do stories or polls on the racism of many who are voting FOR Obama? Guess it's not politically correct.
 
RoSquirts said:
Why doesn't anyone do stories or polls on the racism of many who are voting FOR Obama? Guess it's not politically correct.

Respectfully,

DUH????????

Normally when you post an article one would hope you have read it? The article was addressing the racism decision making of Democrates. Those are the people who should be voting for him.

Implicit in the reading those that are voting for him are not doing so on race.

This is a racist society! Before you get your panties in a rut, let me clarify. This Nation was founded on racism, and many attempts and battles have been fought to address it and reduce it, but even today racism exist througout (perhaps more subtle).

Comparing the percentage of Democrates who won't vote for Obama to the percentage of GOP who won't vote based upon Race and the degree of racism in the Dems is far less.

Historically, the Southern United States was dominated by the Democratic Party because most of your Conservatives who were overt racists were majority Democrats.

After the 60's, Kennedy and Johnson addressing civil rights and such, the South turned to the GOP as they felt the Dems had let them down. Now they are called Red States.

I and most people are not voting for Obama because he is black no more than I am not voting for McCain because he is white!

I am not voting for McCain because he caused the deaths and injury of hundreds of US Sailors on board the SS Forstahl, he immorally dumped his injured wife and three kids in order to hook up with a blonde whos daddy was a millionaire to start his career in Politics and lead him to where he was today. Oops forgot the Savings and Load industry that McCain was let off the hook by his fellow senators for his influence peddling for Charles Keating.

McCain is a slapp in the face to Military People throughout this Nation and their families. My family routes on my mother's side can be traced back to the Revolutionary War, and its members have fought, died, been injured, captured, and missing in most of the following conflicts.

My late father, stormed Omaha Beach on D-Day, in Normandy and got two purple hearts for it.

He like the millions who were before him and after him did their duties for thier country and came back home and went on with their lives. Some became custodians, some became lawyers, and some became Politicians.

John McCain left his first wife because he had to attempt to out do his Admiral Father, and Grand Father.

He has used his time in the service to obtain each and every benefit and prvilege for himself ignoring all the others who were not self serving patriots.

The Republican party had a practice shortly after the Civil War of running for office using use Military Service that was so pronounced and distasteful it was referred to as "fllying the bloody red shirt" The GOP has returned to its roots.

John McCain draws a full "unemployability" pension for his injuries in Service in addition to his Senatorial salary and perks (always has) and at the same time votes against benefits for todays veterans.

I respect his service in Uniform for what it was! No more and no less than anyone else who has worn the Uniform.

Howver, I respect the man far less.
 
Civil Rights

Remember which party voted aganist the civil rights movement. It wasn't the republicians. Don't believe me look up the voting record. That's right the democrat party that black have voted for over 50 years voted agagnist civil rights. The same problems have been in the black community for over 50 years. Isn't it time to start voting for other parties.I'd recomend the Libertarian party.

Libertarian Party | Smaller Government | Lower Taxes | More Freedom
 
handigrl said:
Respectfully,

DUH????????

Normally when you post an article one would hope you have read it? The article was addressing the racism decision making of Democrates. Those are the people who should be voting for him.

No one should be voting for anyone just because of their party.


handigrl said:
Implicit in the reading those that are voting for him are not doing so on race.

That's not implicit that's assumed. 90% of blacks voted for Obama in the primary. You trying to tell me that's not because of race?


handigrl said:
I and most people are not voting for Obama because he is black no more than I am not voting for McCain because he is white!

Nor does that article say that most that are voting for McCain are doing so because Obama is black. Your point? My point is that there are racists on both sides and it would be interesting to know how many ARE voting for Obama just because he's black as they ACTUALLY did in the primary.

handigrl said:
I am not voting for McCain because he caused the deaths and injury of hundreds of US Sailors on board the SS Forstahl, he immorally dumped his injured wife and three kids in order to hook up with a blonde whos daddy was a millionaire to start his career in Politics and lead him to where he was today. Oops forgot the Savings and Load industry that McCain was let off the hook by his fellow senators for his influence peddling for Charles Keating.

McCain is a slapp in the face to Military People throughout this Nation and their families. My family routes on my mother's side can be traced back to the Revolutionary War, and its members have fought, died, been injured, captured, and missing in most of the following conflicts.

My late father, stormed Omaha Beach on D-Day, in Normandy and got two purple hearts for it.

He like the millions who were before him and after him did their duties for thier country and came back home and went on with their lives. Some became custodians, some became lawyers, and some became Politicians.

John McCain left his first wife because he had to attempt to out do his Admiral Father, and Grand Father.

He has used his time in the service to obtain each and every benefit and prvilege for himself ignoring all the others who were not self serving patriots.

The Republican party had a practice shortly after the Civil War of running for office using use Military Service that was so pronounced and distasteful it was referred to as "fllying the bloody red shirt" The GOP has returned to its roots.

John McCain draws a full "unemployability" pension for his injuries in Service in addition to his Senatorial salary and perks (always has) and at the same time votes against benefits for todays veterans.

I respect his service in Uniform for what it was! No more and no less than anyone else who has worn the Uniform.

Howver, I respect the man far less.

You're certainly entitled to your reasons to not vote for McCain. I'm not either but for different reasons. I have a son in Iraq and although I'm grateful to your ancestor's contribution, they mean nothing in today's campaign to me nor do they validate your opinions. My father served in WWII, my brother and husband in Vietnam. My other 3 brothers also served in the military. My two sons have served in Iraq and Afghanistan for many tours. All that in no way makes my opinion any better than anyone else's.

Actually anyone who shields their opinions behind the "I'm more of a patriot than you because of my or my family's military service" argument makes me nervous,lol.
Oh yeah, you didn't say that but you sure 'implied' it.

BTW, what branch of the military did Obama serve in?
 
RoSquirts said:
No one should be voting for anyone just because of their party.




That's not implicit that's assumed. 90% of blacks voted for Obama in the primary. You trying to tell me that's not because of race?




Nor does that article say that most that are voting for McCain are doing so because Obama is black. Your point? My point is that there are racists on both sides and it would be interesting to know how many ARE voting for Obama just because he's black as they ACTUALLY did in the primary.



You're certainly entitled to your reasons to not vote for McCain. I'm not either but for different reasons. I have a son in Iraq and although I'm grateful to your ancestor's contribution, they mean nothing in today's campaign to me nor do they validate your opinions. My father served in WWII, my brother and husband in Vietnam. My other 3 brothers also served in the military. My two sons have served in Iraq and Afghanistan for many tours. All that in no way makes my opinion any better than anyone else's.

Actually anyone who shields their opinions behind the "I'm more of a patriot than you because of my or my family's military service" argument makes me nervous,lol.
Oh yeah, you didn't say that but you sure 'implied' it.

BTW, what branch of the military did Obama serve in?

I did not and never have used military service to validate my opinions.

The point I am making is that McCain and his supporters are using his Military Service as a justification to get him elected as President, and that the millions of other veterans and those currently serving are not going to be entitled to be sainted or made into a "supreme" entity as McCain has been for their same or similar sacrifices.

My point is that it doesn't matter what conflict or war someone served in, or if they were in the military and never saw combat they are equally deserving of respect and gratitude.

McCain has used improperly in my opinion to obtain for him much more than the other hero!

One point that you in your writing omit, is the fact that each and everyday throughout the world there are hundreds of military men and women who are killed and maimed during practice and accidents while wearing the uniforms, whether they are serving in combat, or Germany, or anywhere else. Those are heros too, but most people don't even think about them.

Whether the service of my family means anything to you or not doesn't matter for shit, but you sure got yours out there. You have a right to be proud, but it seems hypocritical to accuse me of something and in the same sentence you do the samething! :)

In regards to blacks voting for Obama. You seem to have missed out on several hundred years of history in the US. There once was a time in this nation when there was a thing called Slavery. As I recall being taught it was black people who were slaves?

Obama is only half black, but is it surprising that after not being able to vote, then only counting for a fraction of a human being when you voted, to ultimately being allowed to vote if you could pass a written test put together by some white guys, to finally being able to vote under the assistance of the military, to today when for the first time a person who is identifiable as black has a 50/50 percent chance of becoming President, that 90 percent of blacks will vote for that person? Hell no it ain't!!!

And 90 percent of blacks voting for Obama is not a racist act! It is my belief that blacks in this country have been living for this day for over 200 years and you see it as racists?

Wake up and smell the coffee. They are voting for history!!! They are voting for doing what has been assumed could never have been done.

Are there black racists? yes, Racists come in all colors. However, trying to attribute blacks as racists for seeing the fulfillment of a dream for which so many before them have went to their graves believing would never happen is not right!

Lastly, Obama did not serve in the Military.

As I was taught, those that serve in the Military take an oath to fight and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.

It may astonish you and some others, but service in the Military is to preserve things that we are proudest of in our history such as the right to desent, to protest, and to not serve in the Military if not legally called upon.

I believe currently the proportion of those in the House of Representative and Senate along with appointees (Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc...) never serving in the military is far in the majority, so what's your point?

Did Lincoln or Roosevelt ever serve?
 
So it's OK to vote for him because he's black , that's not racist? But the reverse is true? Frankly, I think both slants are racist and no fractured history lesson from you is likely to change that.

Now it's not OK for McCain to raise his military record because millions of other veterans aren't running for president? I don't see the connection.

And thank you for enlightening me on what military duty means. I'd have no clue otherwise,lol. You're right I'm astonished to find out that the military is meant to protect our way of life, even to 'desent'. Who'd a thunk it?

P.S. Oh, and thank god 'hundreds of military men and women' are not being killed and maimed every day.
 
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RoSquirts said:
So it's OK to vote for him because he's black , that's not racist? But the reverse is true? Frankly, I think both slants are racist and no fractured history lesson from you is likely to change that.

Now it's not OK for McCain to raise his military record because millions of other veterans aren't running for president? I don't see the connection.

And thank you for enlightening me on what military duty means. I'd have no clue otherwise,lol. You're right I'm astonished to find out that the military is meant to protect our way of life, even to 'desent'. Who'd a thunk it?

P.S. Oh, and thank god 'hundreds of military men and women' are not being killed and maimed every day.[/QUOTe

Putting things in context which you and many others have a tendency not to do; since the inception of this great country of ours Blacks have been deprived of the right to vote for a Black Person for the office of President of the US.

It should serve as no surprise to any person of average intelligence why at least 90 percent of Blacks would vote for him! If this was not the first time in history that a Black person was nominated by a major party so as to allow them to run for President of the US, and/or over 90 percent of Blacks were voting for Obama as a preference for a Black person over a white person just because of skin color and regardless of anything else your concerns might have merit.

Look if it were an Asian, Hispanic, American Indian, etc..., wouldn't matter, you would have the same result of people of that ethnicity voting for someone from their identifiable group for the first time in history.

For over two hundred years 100 percent of white voters have been voting for White people for the office of President! Why, because the major parties have only run white candidates!

Does that mean that there have been no people of color qualified to be President in the History of the nation?

No, because in this country that has never been allowed to have a person of color run.

If you can't understand the historical and cultural significance of what is happening, and instead choose to wallow in racist conspiracies then there is just no understanding.

In my opinion the Black vote in this election is not made with a conceived or intended attempt to vote as an overt act of Racism, it just the natural occurrance of pent up demand for something denied for more than two hundred centuries.

Now as far as White voters go there would be absolutely nothing that could be said to support voting for McCain because he is white. That has been occuring every four years as a normal course.

Racism:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

It is one thing to be proud of your military record, but to make a whole career and profit from it and use it to make yourself appear better than everyone else is shameful! Especially when you vote routinely against benefits for veterans while running for office.

Furthermore for it to be the weapon you use against others in order to be selected to run for President is disgraceful. The two have no commonality.

I know its hard for some to be enlightened, especially when we currently have a preemptive war going in another sovereign nation rather than a defensive war, but I am always willing to help.

But please don't make fun of those serving in our military. It is indeed a sad fact that each and every day hundreds of military personnel are killed and injured throughout the world even in peace time just training and working their military jobs.

Unfortunately it is only when there is a conflict that anyone bothers to make the statistics know. Even when there is a conflict occurring only the combat stats are made known and no others. However, to those killed and wounded serving rather it is in combat or not they are just as honorable and owed respect from us. Their loved ones care about them as much as you do about yours!
 
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RoSquirts said:
Why doesn't anyone do stories or polls on the racism of many who are voting FOR Obama? Guess it's not politically correct.

By the same logic should they do a poll on the sexism behind Hillary supporters? Or more general, the sexism behind females who vote for a female candidate because, finally after two hundred years there could be a female president? Well, if that's not so bad then lets substitute 'african american' for the word female... oh then it it becomes racism, an evil if you will?

While i see where you are going with this i really think you are taking something very profound and over simplifying it. and i know you know exactly what i mean!! take for instance south africa... historically there are several similarities between the United States and South Africa. Both have a history where whites ruled the blacks to make the issue simple. Yet not long ago the south africans, mostly the black african majority, voted in a black president as we all know. so is that racist and bigoted? i'm sure a yes can be argued although it would sound off the political correctness siren! however, someone who sees that and only that as a talking point must surely be a cold hearted person in my book, to completely dismiss something so meaningful to that peoples. the same thing would apply here whether you see it or not, it would apply to Blacks, to a potential Latino president, an Asian president, a Native American/Indian president, certainly a woman president, and so on and so forth. It is a dignity thing assuming the guy isn't a dickie cheney type (God Forbid).
 
handigrl said:
But please don't make fun of those serving in our military. It is indeed a sad fact that each and every day hundreds of military personnel are killed and injured throughout the world even in peace time just training and working their military jobs.

Unfortunately it is only when there is a conflict that anyone bothers to make the statistics know. Even when there is a conflict occurring only the combat stats are made known and no others. However, to those killed and wounded serving rather it is in combat or not they are just as honorable and owed respect from us. Their loved ones care about them as much as you do about yours!

Who the fuck is making fun of those serving in our military? Where do you come up with these words you put in my mouth? BTW, there are stats available for non-combat. For example in 1999, 761 military died in peacetime in the WHOLE YEAR, estimates for injured are about 6,000. Hardly your hundreds a day,lol. And the stats for non-combat deaths in Iraq are published all the time.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for our military. It's you I'm making fun of. Your lecturing of a military wife, mother, daughter and sister borderlines on the absurd.

Back to the subject before you decided you're an expert on the military - we're not voting for a black or white man. We're voting for a president.

And I'd still like to see polling that reflects who and how many are voting for Obama just because he's black. I suspect we'd find out that the numbers of those people are close to the number not voting for him because he's black. Either way, there's a lot of people derelict in their voting duty and doing their country a disservice by voting based on race.

I think I'll let this topic drop for me before your ranting causes me to say something I regret. Have fun :)
 
blkoralslaveboy said:
By the same logic should they do a poll on the sexism behind Hillary supporters? Or more general, the sexism behind females who vote for a female candidate because, finally after two hundred years there could be a female president? Well, if that's not so bad then lets substitute 'african american' for the word female... oh then it it becomes racism, an evil if you will?

While i see where you are going with this i really think you are taking something very profound and over simplifying it. and i know you know exactly what i mean!! take for instance south africa... historically there are several similarities between the United States and South Africa. Both have a history where whites ruled the blacks to make the issue simple. Yet not long ago the south africans, mostly the black african majority, voted in a black president as we all know. so is that racist and bigoted? i'm sure a yes can be argued although it would sound off the political correctness siren! however, someone who sees that and only that as a talking point must surely be a cold hearted person in my book, to completely dismiss something so meaningful to that peoples. the same thing would apply here whether you see it or not, it would apply to Blacks, to a potential Latino president, an Asian president, a Native American/Indian president, certainly a woman president, and so on and so forth. It is a dignity thing assuming the guy isn't a dickie cheney type (God Forbid).

For the record, I think voting for or against anyone based on sex, race or ethnic background is stupid, period. I don't dismiss that it's culturally and historically significant. I'm not ignorant,lol. I dismiss that it should have any bearing on who you pick to lead our country.

Comparing the US to South Africa is like comparing apples to oranges. First, they don't vote for president, they vote for parliament which then votes in a president. Second, there is a ratio of black to white there of 5:1. Third, the first one man, one vote election elected the ANC and consequently Nelson Mandela to president in 1994.

It's funny how being curious about how many blacks are voting for Obama just because he's black stirs up military lectures(?), me being coldhearted, etc. Such anger. If you're not cold hearted and logical in picking your president, maybe you should rethink how you evaluate candidates. This isn't the prom queen we're voting for, this is the man that will lead this country in what might be America's most challenging time since I reached voting age.

And think about this also - If Obama gets elected and screws up royally, how far might that set back true racial equality in politics? The goal should be that race DOESN'T matter, not that it's the deciding factor. I suggest everyone should weigh that before giving their vote to anyone blindly based on race.
 
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RoSquirts said:
Who the fuck is making fun of those serving in our military? Where do you come up with these words you put in my mouth? BTW, there are stats available for non-combat. For example in 1999, 761 military died in peacetime in the WHOLE YEAR, estimates for injured are about 6,000. Hardly your hundreds a day,lol. And the stats for non-combat deaths in Iraq are published all the time.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for our military. It's you I'm making fun of. Your lecturing of a military wife, mother, daughter and sister borderlines on the absurd.

Back to the subject before you decided you're an expert on the military - we're not voting for a black or white man. We're voting for a president.

And I'd still like to see polling that reflects who and how many are voting for Obama just because he's black. I suspect we'd find out that the numbers of those people are close to the number not voting for him because he's black. Either way, there's a lot of people derelict in their voting duty and doing their country a disservice by voting based on race.

I think I'll let this topic drop for me before your ranting causes me to say something I regret. Have fun :)

If my numbers were off so be it. However, you sure seem dismissive of the the 6761 number you produced. The point I was trying to make is society does not care about Military folks until there is a time conflict, and then only during that time.

I am not an expert on anything and neither are you. We are both participating on a chat room board, get a life! If you want to talk about ranting, I believe you last posting fits that bill. :)

I will respectfully disagree with you on the numbers of Blacks voting for Obama because of his Blackness being equal to the numbers of Whites voting for McCain because he is White.

I will state in my opinion the numbers of Blacks voting for Obama because he is Black will be far greater! As it should be!

Just look at the numbers of new registered Black voters throughout the South who have never voted before in their life. Now they have something to vote for! Now they are wanting to be part of history. You know the "american dream" whereby everyone has the opportunity to grow up to one day be President?

Don't be so dismissive.

Its got nothing to do with being a racist which implies doning an act towards other in an attempt to keep them down. Maybe after we as a Nation have elected multiple numbers of Black, Asian, Hispanic, American Indian Presidents, then we can track people of color doing things out of racism. But the first time in two hundred years! Why would you even care?
 
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RoSquirts said:
For the record, I think voting for or against anyone based on sex, race or ethnic background is stupid, period. I don't dismiss that it's culturally and historically significant. I'm not ignorant,lol. I dismiss that it should have any bearing on who you pick to lead our country.

Comparing the US to South Africa is like comparing apples to oranges. First, they don't vote for president, they vote for parliament which then votes in a president. Second, there is a ratio of black to white there of 5:1. Third, the first one man, one vote election elected the ANC and consequently Nelson Mandela to president in 1994.

It's funny how being curious about how many blacks are voting for Obama just because he's black stirs up military lectures(?), me being coldhearted, etc. Such anger. If you're not cold hearted and logical in picking your president, maybe you should rethink how you evaluate candidates. This isn't the prom queen we're voting for, this is the man that will lead this country in what might be America's most challenging time since I reached voting age.

And think about this also - If Obama gets elected and screws up royally, how far might that set back true racial equality in politics? The goal should be that race DOESN'T matter, not that it's the deciding factor. I suggest everyone should weigh that before giving their vote to anyone blindly based on race.

"IF Obama gets elected and screws up royally..." :)

After the last seven years there is no bar of screwing up.

Why should that be a concern for Obama and not McCain? If McCain is elected and screws up royally would that set back true racial equality in politics?

Your posts have missed the point of disagreements with them.

You just don't comprehend that after over two hundred years people have only had one choice of vanilla. No other flavors available.

People have been told you can only have vanilla. One day Chocolate is available, and of course there will be those who say I am tired of vanilla, I want Chocolate. Don't mean they don't like vanilla or what vanilla harmed in anyway. They are just tired of having vanilla.

The people doing that aren't doing it out of wrongness of heart or trying to hurt anyone, they just want to try something different. I believe that what the Dark Cavern site is all about?

The wrongness of heart comes into place with those that after two hundred years of having only vanilla others say and do, no way there should only be vanilla and there should never be any chocolate.

Simplification, but I know who I am talking to here. :)

White men have been running and molding this country into the mess it is today. There should be no concern about people of color having a chance at things.
 
RoSquirts said:
For the record, I think voting for or against anyone based on sex, race or ethnic background is stupid, period. I don't dismiss that it's culturally and historically significant. I'm not ignorant,lol. I dismiss that it should have any bearing on who you pick to lead our country.

Comparing the US to South Africa is like comparing apples to oranges. First, they don't vote for president, they vote for parliament which then votes in a president. Second, there is a ratio of black to white there of 5:1. Third, the first one man, one vote election elected the ANC and consequently Nelson Mandela to president in 1994.

It's funny how being curious about how many blacks are voting for Obama just because he's black stirs up military lectures(?), me being coldhearted, etc. Such anger. If you're not cold hearted and logical in picking your president, maybe you should rethink how you evaluate candidates. This isn't the prom queen we're voting for, this is the man that will lead this country in what might be America's most challenging time since I reached voting age.

And think about this also - If Obama gets elected and screws up royally, how far might that set back true racial equality in politics? The goal should be that race DOESN'T matter, not that it's the deciding factor. I suggest everyone should weigh that before giving their vote to anyone blindly based on race.

Ro... if Alan Keys had won a few years back I'm pretty damned sure I wouldn't have voted for him... so perhaps i'm voting for Obama because he believes closely to what i believe in. But if Obama wins and I take pride in that more so than I would if a white democrat had won principally because finally someone of my race has gotten that far and that makes me a racist. I guess i have no choice than to be a racist. If thinking that just 40 short years ago there were still places where blacks and whites couldn't drink together and now there is a black president makes me racist...then so be it. if fifty short years ago most movies and television shows minimized the use of blacks, most hotels and restaurants in Washington D.C. didn't serve blacks, and that there were many parts in the south where blacks were not even allowed to vote and now... i don't even need to finish this.

excuse my ignorance in south african parliamentary proceedings. i apologize for using that in my example. however i do not apologize for comparing these two countries... despite the population ratios and government infrastructure differences... the naked fact is that historically whites there (just the same as here) ruled over the blacks! You can argue many differences but that bare essential bit is FACT and not an argument! and once a black leader arose the black people were proud of that despite who this person was!! And if it is wrong for me to be proud of that here, especially in a situation where having black presidents is not common place or even once in a blue moon, then not only am i racist then so are they!

That being said would i be proud if Alan Keys became president...YES!!!!! would i have voted for him...NOOO!!! But i will not feed the self righteousness of any white anti-political correctness, moderate or conservative, by saying that my pride in having a first black president is as wrong as them voting against a black president because he's black! You do the friggin math... if your son grew up and became president on based on a platform which you yourself are dead set against will you vote for him. i'm sure on here you will deny that; but only you and God know the truth and that is your constitutional right! however, even if you do not would you still be proud or feel completely indifferent or ashamed! yes, Obama is not my son, but my son or daughter--once i have one, will be closer to being accepted as a proper presidential candidate because of this black brother and that is fine by me. and anyone that thinks this is wrong can jump back and literally fuck themselves till the moon turns pink!!

Now, if Obama fucks up and his race is blamed well then at least i know this country is still deeply racist. it takes nerves to vote against a black man fearing that his race will be blamed if he doesn't do a perfect job! I suppose bush's fuck ups are his fuck ups, but Obama's will be his and mine both! I see where this is going... guess what come closer, let me whisper this... fuck ANYONE that makes that assertion and fuck anyone that looks like them and if I myself look like them then fuck me too!!

I'm finished here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:pee:mcCan't
 
You guys are missing the point that Ro and others raised. The issue is not that you are proud of having a black candidate and a black President. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and where you come from.

The question is how many blacks are voting for Obama JUST because he is black. That means that the voters don't know much about Obama and who he is or know anything about McCain. They are voting solely on the fact that he is black and not even knowing that he is half black (which makes no sense, how can you be half black its just a color!)

Ro's main point really was more broad than race. It was more about educating yourself on what both candidates stand for and making the best decision regardless of political parties, race, sex, or any other category we like to box people in. Most people don't do that much work to learn about the candidates and accept everthing they hear without checking out the facts which is sad.
 
rick83m said:
You guys are missing the point that Ro and others raised. The issue is not that you are proud of having a black candidate and a black President. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and where you come from.

The question is how many blacks are voting for Obama JUST because he is black. That means that the voters don't know much about Obama and who he is or know anything about McCain. They are voting solely on the fact that he is black and not even knowing that he is half black (which makes no sense, how can you be half black its just a color!)

Ro's main point really was more broad than race. It was more about educating yourself on what both candidates stand for and making the best decision regardless of political parties, race, sex, or any other category we like to box people in. Most people don't do that much work to learn about the candidates and accept everthing they hear without checking out the facts which is sad.

Respectfully disagree with your take on Ro's racists postions.

If you reread Ro's post it dealt with the fact that there has been surveys taken about the huge numbers of White Democrats who could be influenced not to vote for Obama due to their racist views towards Blacks.

So naturally in a defensive reaction many would immediately in attempt to shield the White racism would retort, well we need to find out how many Blacks are voting along racial lines.

This would imply they are the same.

They are not. Racism against Blacks has been perpetuated by Government, societal, and institutional mechanisms.

Racism in America is rooted in the taking or not taking actions against someone on the basis of color or ethnicity in order to do them harm or with malice toward everyone in that persons color or ethnic group! Period end of discussion on that.

Where Ro and the countless numbers of others are missing the boat is that those who would vote for McCain and not Obama just for that one criteria FALL DIRECTLY INTO THE MOLD OF AGE OLD AMERICAN RACISM DIRECTED TOWARD ANYONE WHO HAPPENS TO BE BLACK.


That is entirely different than the current Phenomenon taking place in America during the Election for President.

The core at the heart of Blacks voting for Obama rather than McCain; while hell yes the skin color or ethnicity will be the determining factor for most Blacks in my opinion; IS NOT ROOTED IN SOME FASHION AS BEING BASED UPON A HATRED OR BELIEF THAT ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE INFERIOR OR A WAY TO HURT OR KEEP DOWN ALL WHITES.

While some whites may see it that way, which they are entirely entitled to do so, to me it only comes across as some how trying to redefine the definition of racism.

This is a historical election for sure. On one hand you have a candidate who is Black, and during the course of the last 18 months earned and won for himself the right to be nominated by his political party to run for the office of President.

On the other hand you have a Woman who in the course of pandering and political brinkmanship was selected by a man only for the reason to somehow upstage his opponent.

I made the above statement based upon the fact that Sara Palin has not campaign or was voted on to be a Vice Presidential candidate, she was selected/appointed as such and the office of Vice President is not an elected office. i could never vote for Sara Palin because of her positions, views, and influence of her "out of left field religious beliefs", not because she is a women.

As a white person I can state without a doubt if race in America had historically been the reverse with Blacks being in charge and doing everything to Whites that had been done to them, and there had never been a Nominee of any Political Party of the White race, then I and most of my White fellow citizens would vote for the White person not out of spite, but out of pride and a desire for self-respect and equality, and to leave a legacy for the children of the future of all colors.

You state:

"Ro's main point really was more broad than race. It was more about educating yourself on what both candidates stand for and making the best decision regardless of political parties, race, sex, or any other category we like to box people in. Most people don't do that much work to learn about the candidates and accept everthing they hear without checking out the facts which is sad.[/QUOTE]"

If this was not the first time a Black person was the nominee to run for President of the US I would agree with your assertion.

However, up to this present time the main qualifier for being nominated to run for President was you were White.

So lets allow some understanding for this significant and historical development in America and not attempt to cheapen or downgrade it for what it is.

If elected for what ever reason, Obama will have broken though racism in America and make the path for the future that much easier for millions of others.

If not elected for skin color, the racial divide and resulting implications will continue to fester.
 
the issue is quite simple. and handigirl i really do not agree that Ro's position is racist at all! i think it is objective to the point of being dry of any passion for human struggles and dignity. but not racist.

her main point is that the presidency of the united states should not be treated with the same pro-racial equality agenda as other segregated institutions in the past. also that we should never look at race as an issue when looking for a leader to fill that position, but rather strictly his abilities to lead our nation to a better path.

who can possibly disagree with that! however, Barack Obama got to the podium of the democratic presidential candidacy of his own merits did he not? did we blacks pull that off? did we do something to bring him to that point? of course not. so the issue is beside the point.

Now taking a poll of all people, white, black, or in between, of what percentage of people are voting for Barack Obama just because he's black? Well, frankly i'm pretty sure it is not going to be as high as you might think probably very low. Now if it were Hillary would Barack's supporters have voted for her still? Yes, because he would have no choice but to endorse her because they only other option is voting for the Reps. If McCocaine then chose Alan Keys as his VP candidate would these people have voted for him? Probably some older, church going blacks, maybe. But the rest of us I doubt it.

Now, i'm still sticking to my earlier point that this question would better be asked if we already had a black president at some point in the past. I know you disagree with that... but that is my view. I'm not trying to "inflame" anyone any longer so i'm trying to be calm as i've been threatened to be 'McCarthied', oops i mean, banned out of this site if i don't calm down.

anyways, hope this is a better response.

rick83m said:
You guys are missing the point that Ro and others raised. The issue is not that you are proud of having a black candidate and a black President. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are and where you come from.

The question is how many blacks are voting for Obama JUST because he is black. That means that the voters don't know much about Obama and who he is or know anything about McCain. They are voting solely on the fact that he is black and not even knowing that he is half black (which makes no sense, how can you be half black its just a color!)

Ro's main point really was more broad than race. It was more about educating yourself on what both candidates stand for and making the best decision regardless of political parties, race, sex, or any other category we like to box people in. Most people don't do that much work to learn about the candidates and accept everthing they hear without checking out the facts which is sad.
 
blkoralslaveboy said:
I'm not trying to "inflame" anyone any longer so i'm trying to be calm as i've been threatened to be 'McCarthied', oops i mean, banned out of this site if i don't calm down.

I'm sorry about that and assure you that I have absolutely nothing to do with that, whatsoever.
 
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RoSquirts said:
I'm sorry about that and assure you that I have absolutely nothing to do with that, whatsoever.

i know Ro.... i didn't mean to make it sound like it's you.
 
blkoralslaveboy said:
i know Ro.... i didn't mean to make it sound like it's you.

Thats the problem as late in this nation. As soon as politics are discussed things get heated.
Since the evolution of talk radio people have been made more polorized in their views.

Peace to everyone.
 
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