New Direction For 2017?
- Thread starterSoonToBe
- Start date
So, where to start....
Peak - no I don't think it was a mercy-fuck from Sue, we actually talked a lot over this past weekend as she is taking a break from Paul on the weekends until we have ourselves sorted out a bit more - well, that and the weather was such that Paul told her he would be golfing all weekend.
I think I understand a lot more of what she's been thinking and going through and maybe even wanting, now that I think I understand. I guess it goes back to a few different things, mainly when I came to her with my beta-desires. To hear her, she had just gotten past her desire for this big affair where she'd let herself go emotionally and physically - as I understood her, after her time with Robert, she'd figured out that she wanted the physical and not necessarily all of the other stuff. And when I said what I did about wanting my beta wishes to be fulfilled - that I told her that if she wanted anything sexual that she should look to Paul - I now see that it had the effect of putting her in reverse yet again. The way she said it and it was part of what she'd told me earlier, that it was some effort on her part to go along with my wishes and to direct her desires to Paul and not me, especially after how she'd come to feel she'd grown from her time with Robert. In fact she even told me that part of what she liked about Paul at the beginning was that she felt that it could maybe just be physical between them and that it could be what she wanted. But that when I told her that I wanted her to ramp up denying me - she said she wasn't sure what she felt other than being mad and annoyed with me - but at the same time - she also said she knew it WAS something I did want and that she said that was how she got herself to let herself go with Paul, to convince herself that it was what I wanted.
She said to me that she could feel my desires were changing and that even before New Years Eve, that she knew that I was reaching my limits and that she decided that she wanted to, as I tried to say and she confirmed, really push my limits. She said she was annoyed that I seemed to discount and diminish how she felt with Paul and how much it took of her as a woman and as my wife for her to truly redirect her sexual desires to Paul. She was brutally honest with me when she said again that right now, Paul makes her cum so much more and so much better than I do that she needs to somewhat push herself to let me have my time with her and to hopefully regain my position with her.
It led us to a deeper discussion that sort of culminated yesterday when we both came to realize that I seem to truly need her to deny me something at a deeper sexual level in order to somehow satisfy these feelings that I still have. She didn't play down my feelings or this need that I seem to have. It was actually something quite the opposite. I actually told her at one point that I wished I didn't feel this way sometimes - and that seemed to make her understand that this wasn't something I could necessarily control, or at least not on an infinite basis. She told me that she had understood this turned me on for a long time - and we all know all the stuff we've talked about and discovered about each other over time and she told me that she loved me even more because she knew it wasn't easy to share this type of intimate stuff with her. We shared a few tears at times too as she told me that she too had discovered things that she too felt wasn't easy to share or accept. For as deep and heavy as that was to say to each other, it also felt good to say it and to finally put it where it was something that we can just accept and build forward from.
When I told her that I thought at times that I was crazy for what I felt, she looked at me and said that she felt the same. And I know that we've said it more than once in the past, but I don't know if it was more startling than as we talked and thought that we are both really enjoying a lot of the same things once again, just from different perspectives - or as I'd said it and she laughed - as 2 sides of the same coin.
I can't recall exactly how we got there but at one point she turned to me and asked me if using condoms with her was something I truly found pleasurable, or whether it was something that gave me a different type of satisfaction? She knew the answer but I told her anyway that it surely wasn't directly pleasurable, but that it "felt right" and afterwards that it seemed to leave me feeling how I wanted to. And she confirmed "so it feels right to not cum in me?". I looked at her and I said, "no, it doesn't feel right" and I explained that of course it would feel far better and more 'correct' for me to cum in her and I admitted that physically it would likeley feel far better. It wasn't easy to try to find the words and I still can't - but I told her that despite that, that it just feels better to not do so.
I told her immediately that this is what I was concerned about regarding the other discussion where she said she cums so much better and more easily with Paul and that I was perpetuating that. She looked at me and was speechless for a few moments until she said, very hesitatingly, "is that so bad?" and with a very questioning tone? I looked at her and didn't answer and she paused and then again said "is that so bad if it's how we both feel?". Which made me ask her "is it?" and when she didn't answer I added "is that how you feel, that it's maybe not so bad?".
Now I know it will sound crazy but we spent the better part of yesterday afternoon discussing this. I can share some of the to/fro that went on, but it slowly came to both of us that we are both feeling apprehensive in the same ways and also are both continuing to be curious in other ways. One thing though, Sue agrees that more sexual involvement with me will be better for her and temper anything that would be happening between her and Paul. She continued to explain that she'd told Paul all about my "decisions" that I'd come to and she said he'd laughed and "had wondered how he (I) could take not having sex with you (her)" - and he laughed about what she'd wanted for the second ski-weekend and he agreed to follow her lead. So, as she explained, what I saw between them that weekend was a bit extreme - not so much what they did, but more how-much and how-explicitly - so in the end, Paul is a willing participant to however Sue decides to handle my needs. As others here have concluded, he knows he's lucky to be enjoying her and isn't making waves at any time.
Before I break for lunch I'll conclude by sharing that we have come to some new agreements and reinforced older ones. Regarding condoms, she admits that if it doesn't matter to me or that it seems to fulfill me in some way, then she is okay with me using them with her and when I pushed, she admitted to having to come to learn to enjoy this. It was her that looked at me and said "that means... you know... it'll only probably happen with him when it does, that crazy way I cum sometimes at the end". I wasn't sure what to say as she added "it'll still happen with you baby, you know, when we're really into it sometimes". I told her that I knew what it meant and I asked her if it hurt her if I told her that I thought it was perhaps what I needed to feel? I saw her eyes tear up as she took my hand and held it and told me how she knew it was something very deep in me to be able to say that to her and that she loved me for being able to tell her. With the same tear in her eye she sniffed and said that she felt weird in the same way by being aroused by it too and that she had struggled with these feelings too. She was almost crying when she said that she wanted us to be able to make it work out for both of us but that she needed me to "know that I don't love him and that he'll never come between us....". She babbled on for a moment until I kissed her and I just said "I know baby".
I know it sounds like nothing new, and perhaps it's not, but I think we have turned a bit of a corner because of the rest of our discussion that I'll hopefully share after lunch.
Peak - no I don't think it was a mercy-fuck from Sue, we actually talked a lot over this past weekend as she is taking a break from Paul on the weekends until we have ourselves sorted out a bit more - well, that and the weather was such that Paul told her he would be golfing all weekend.
I think I understand a lot more of what she's been thinking and going through and maybe even wanting, now that I think I understand. I guess it goes back to a few different things, mainly when I came to her with my beta-desires. To hear her, she had just gotten past her desire for this big affair where she'd let herself go emotionally and physically - as I understood her, after her time with Robert, she'd figured out that she wanted the physical and not necessarily all of the other stuff. And when I said what I did about wanting my beta wishes to be fulfilled - that I told her that if she wanted anything sexual that she should look to Paul - I now see that it had the effect of putting her in reverse yet again. The way she said it and it was part of what she'd told me earlier, that it was some effort on her part to go along with my wishes and to direct her desires to Paul and not me, especially after how she'd come to feel she'd grown from her time with Robert. In fact she even told me that part of what she liked about Paul at the beginning was that she felt that it could maybe just be physical between them and that it could be what she wanted. But that when I told her that I wanted her to ramp up denying me - she said she wasn't sure what she felt other than being mad and annoyed with me - but at the same time - she also said she knew it WAS something I did want and that she said that was how she got herself to let herself go with Paul, to convince herself that it was what I wanted.
She said to me that she could feel my desires were changing and that even before New Years Eve, that she knew that I was reaching my limits and that she decided that she wanted to, as I tried to say and she confirmed, really push my limits. She said she was annoyed that I seemed to discount and diminish how she felt with Paul and how much it took of her as a woman and as my wife for her to truly redirect her sexual desires to Paul. She was brutally honest with me when she said again that right now, Paul makes her cum so much more and so much better than I do that she needs to somewhat push herself to let me have my time with her and to hopefully regain my position with her.
It led us to a deeper discussion that sort of culminated yesterday when we both came to realize that I seem to truly need her to deny me something at a deeper sexual level in order to somehow satisfy these feelings that I still have. She didn't play down my feelings or this need that I seem to have. It was actually something quite the opposite. I actually told her at one point that I wished I didn't feel this way sometimes - and that seemed to make her understand that this wasn't something I could necessarily control, or at least not on an infinite basis. She told me that she had understood this turned me on for a long time - and we all know all the stuff we've talked about and discovered about each other over time and she told me that she loved me even more because she knew it wasn't easy to share this type of intimate stuff with her. We shared a few tears at times too as she told me that she too had discovered things that she too felt wasn't easy to share or accept. For as deep and heavy as that was to say to each other, it also felt good to say it and to finally put it where it was something that we can just accept and build forward from.
When I told her that I thought at times that I was crazy for what I felt, she looked at me and said that she felt the same. And I know that we've said it more than once in the past, but I don't know if it was more startling than as we talked and thought that we are both really enjoying a lot of the same things once again, just from different perspectives - or as I'd said it and she laughed - as 2 sides of the same coin.
I can't recall exactly how we got there but at one point she turned to me and asked me if using condoms with her was something I truly found pleasurable, or whether it was something that gave me a different type of satisfaction? She knew the answer but I told her anyway that it surely wasn't directly pleasurable, but that it "felt right" and afterwards that it seemed to leave me feeling how I wanted to. And she confirmed "so it feels right to not cum in me?". I looked at her and I said, "no, it doesn't feel right" and I explained that of course it would feel far better and more 'correct' for me to cum in her and I admitted that physically it would likeley feel far better. It wasn't easy to try to find the words and I still can't - but I told her that despite that, that it just feels better to not do so.
I told her immediately that this is what I was concerned about regarding the other discussion where she said she cums so much better and more easily with Paul and that I was perpetuating that. She looked at me and was speechless for a few moments until she said, very hesitatingly, "is that so bad?" and with a very questioning tone? I looked at her and didn't answer and she paused and then again said "is that so bad if it's how we both feel?". Which made me ask her "is it?" and when she didn't answer I added "is that how you feel, that it's maybe not so bad?".
Now I know it will sound crazy but we spent the better part of yesterday afternoon discussing this. I can share some of the to/fro that went on, but it slowly came to both of us that we are both feeling apprehensive in the same ways and also are both continuing to be curious in other ways. One thing though, Sue agrees that more sexual involvement with me will be better for her and temper anything that would be happening between her and Paul. She continued to explain that she'd told Paul all about my "decisions" that I'd come to and she said he'd laughed and "had wondered how he (I) could take not having sex with you (her)" - and he laughed about what she'd wanted for the second ski-weekend and he agreed to follow her lead. So, as she explained, what I saw between them that weekend was a bit extreme - not so much what they did, but more how-much and how-explicitly - so in the end, Paul is a willing participant to however Sue decides to handle my needs. As others here have concluded, he knows he's lucky to be enjoying her and isn't making waves at any time.
Before I break for lunch I'll conclude by sharing that we have come to some new agreements and reinforced older ones. Regarding condoms, she admits that if it doesn't matter to me or that it seems to fulfill me in some way, then she is okay with me using them with her and when I pushed, she admitted to having to come to learn to enjoy this. It was her that looked at me and said "that means... you know... it'll only probably happen with him when it does, that crazy way I cum sometimes at the end". I wasn't sure what to say as she added "it'll still happen with you baby, you know, when we're really into it sometimes". I told her that I knew what it meant and I asked her if it hurt her if I told her that I thought it was perhaps what I needed to feel? I saw her eyes tear up as she took my hand and held it and told me how she knew it was something very deep in me to be able to say that to her and that she loved me for being able to tell her. With the same tear in her eye she sniffed and said that she felt weird in the same way by being aroused by it too and that she had struggled with these feelings too. She was almost crying when she said that she wanted us to be able to make it work out for both of us but that she needed me to "know that I don't love him and that he'll never come between us....". She babbled on for a moment until I kissed her and I just said "I know baby".
I know it sounds like nothing new, and perhaps it's not, but I think we have turned a bit of a corner because of the rest of our discussion that I'll hopefully share after lunch.
So, I know that it sounds like nothing has changed but there are definite changes that we have discussed and come to talk more openly about. As I said, we talked about the effects of continuing condoms together and as I suggested, she slowly came to share that she likes how it feels to differentiate between sex with me and sex with Paul and to have them feel differently to her.
I eased her mind at talking more to me when I apologized for what I know I'd put her through and for how insensitive I must have seemed to her feelings. I also told her that I knew things had changed for us and that we should talk about that. She admitted that she feels closer emotionally to Paul than she had wanted to and I told her I accepted responsibility for that. She in turn told me that it is going to take some time for that to change, if it changes and she's made it clear that she's not sure she can "un-feel" for Paul. It obviously led to her also admitting that yes, it turns her on to deny me now and that just as I am aroused by being denied, she now admits that since truly learning to enjoy Paul, that she enjoys seeing my desires rising when she tells me that I won't have sex with her. It was her that asked me if we could bring this more out into the open between us and whether I would enjoy that sort of thing - for her to be more open and pointed about my being denied and that sort of thing. Before I told her yes, she said that it would help her by feeling she could share more of her time/fun with Paul rather than beating around the bush about things.
So - the way we have left it is that for now, she hopes to see him still 1 or 2 times a week but not stay overnight (or have him stay over) at least not again for another week or two as she wants to see how things can change regarding her and I. She says that when she comes home afterwards, that she still doesn't want to feel like she HAS to have sex with me, but that when she does, and she hopes it'll be more frequent now that we are more clear with each other, that it'll be something she feels good about and wants to share with me. She said that over time, she is sure that her desire for me will return and that until then, knowing she's teasing and turning me on will get her in the mood when she is borderline.
In bed last night we were both feeling amorous and she giggled and asked me if I wanted a shot at seducing her. I smiled and said I'd love to have the opportunity. She played the innocent damsel and I tried different pickup lines with her which she tweaked me by responding "oh dear, I'm not sure if my boyfriend would like me doing that". We kissed and she teased me as I felt her breasts that she'll "just have to not tell her boyfriend" about this. And as I slid my hand beneath her panties she hissed that "we have to be safe if I'm going to cheat on my boyfriend". She was all smiles as I took my usual position between her legs and she watched eagerly as I rolled the condom on. Again - damn if my cock didn't seem to get even harder doing so. She spread her legs for me and teased me that she hoped she was wet enough (which she was!).
But it was when I was in her that she started in with something new - "mmmm, good you have a condom on.... only my boyfriend goes bare with me....." and she proceeded to add comments like that in periodically. We soon got into a back-and-forth when I replied that "I'll leave you clean for him" which she knew and felt was accompanied by my cock throbbing.
She didn't fake it when she orgasmed - there was no way to fake how wet and open her pussy became suddenly when she let out that deep moan and her eyes fluttered back in her head. And we both lay together and caught our breaths before I felt her hand reach between us once again.
I eased her mind at talking more to me when I apologized for what I know I'd put her through and for how insensitive I must have seemed to her feelings. I also told her that I knew things had changed for us and that we should talk about that. She admitted that she feels closer emotionally to Paul than she had wanted to and I told her I accepted responsibility for that. She in turn told me that it is going to take some time for that to change, if it changes and she's made it clear that she's not sure she can "un-feel" for Paul. It obviously led to her also admitting that yes, it turns her on to deny me now and that just as I am aroused by being denied, she now admits that since truly learning to enjoy Paul, that she enjoys seeing my desires rising when she tells me that I won't have sex with her. It was her that asked me if we could bring this more out into the open between us and whether I would enjoy that sort of thing - for her to be more open and pointed about my being denied and that sort of thing. Before I told her yes, she said that it would help her by feeling she could share more of her time/fun with Paul rather than beating around the bush about things.
So - the way we have left it is that for now, she hopes to see him still 1 or 2 times a week but not stay overnight (or have him stay over) at least not again for another week or two as she wants to see how things can change regarding her and I. She says that when she comes home afterwards, that she still doesn't want to feel like she HAS to have sex with me, but that when she does, and she hopes it'll be more frequent now that we are more clear with each other, that it'll be something she feels good about and wants to share with me. She said that over time, she is sure that her desire for me will return and that until then, knowing she's teasing and turning me on will get her in the mood when she is borderline.
In bed last night we were both feeling amorous and she giggled and asked me if I wanted a shot at seducing her. I smiled and said I'd love to have the opportunity. She played the innocent damsel and I tried different pickup lines with her which she tweaked me by responding "oh dear, I'm not sure if my boyfriend would like me doing that". We kissed and she teased me as I felt her breasts that she'll "just have to not tell her boyfriend" about this. And as I slid my hand beneath her panties she hissed that "we have to be safe if I'm going to cheat on my boyfriend". She was all smiles as I took my usual position between her legs and she watched eagerly as I rolled the condom on. Again - damn if my cock didn't seem to get even harder doing so. She spread her legs for me and teased me that she hoped she was wet enough (which she was!).
But it was when I was in her that she started in with something new - "mmmm, good you have a condom on.... only my boyfriend goes bare with me....." and she proceeded to add comments like that in periodically. We soon got into a back-and-forth when I replied that "I'll leave you clean for him" which she knew and felt was accompanied by my cock throbbing.
She didn't fake it when she orgasmed - there was no way to fake how wet and open her pussy became suddenly when she let out that deep moan and her eyes fluttered back in her head. And we both lay together and caught our breaths before I felt her hand reach between us once again.
Steve,
I can see that for you on the one hand to say you wanted to feel and act a little less beta and on the other to agree all the above as your new rules for a while, there has to be still a serious conflict in how you are thinking. You can't square the circle with that post.
Sue has just told you she was on the ragged edge with you before Christmas. She could see you were faltering about the extent of her denial of you (which is also an enforced denial of you to her) and she wanted you to see the error of that path by ramping it up to show you the extreme view. It worked to an extent.
Sue now has a lonely path to follow as she tries to rebuild her desire for you whilst at the same time getting less overall sex from the best source she may have ever had and whilst you are still saying you want a great deal of the denial she worked so hard to show you damaged that desire. You aren't making it easy for her and whilst it may work for a while I don't think it's sustainable in the medium to long term. In the end she's going to push you to either desire her as a woman or to stop having sex with you altogether because it will become too painful to see the rejection that your denial request shows to her.
The condom issue shouldn't matter at all. The difference in feeling is minor with modern condoms really but the huge issue for both of you is the phycological issue they represent. Sue is trying to create something in her head that enables her to enjoy you almost as much with them but she knows and you must know this is a construct and the reality is she needs the emotional closeness that bare sex represents and that feeling possessed by come gives her. So I say again that your continuing addiction to this aspect of denial is both selfish of you and will create long term damage. Your mental point score of x number of days since you last came inside of her only creates a further mental barrier. Far better if you still want to use them to do so only part of the time. Maybe for sex after she comes back from Paul, but for more special occasions which spark from Sue's attempts to rebridge your sexual gulf, you should do without increasingly. The first time will release both of you in this way. Sue never denied she doesn't like them for her best and most intimate sexual encounters. If she continues to reserve these only for Paul, she will never really get back to you.
As for Paul, he continues to remain a foil. If he wasn't better at sex, he would be of no use to Sue so he needs this performance edge over you. If it was all down to him not using condoms he wouldn't be good enough so Sue really shouldn't need them with you to continue his number one status. On the other side, Paul must be emotionally dead in places if he hasn't formed an emotional bond close to deep affection for Sue by now. It may be true that she doesn't love him but the longer it goes on, the closer the chance of you losing her to him gets. Not yet but don't discount it out of hand.
So, overall I'm glad that you have both sat down and hammered out a few changes. I just don't think either of you are close to where you need to be to recover the emotional and sexual closeness you once had. It's a work in progress as it ever was.
I can see that for you on the one hand to say you wanted to feel and act a little less beta and on the other to agree all the above as your new rules for a while, there has to be still a serious conflict in how you are thinking. You can't square the circle with that post.
Sue has just told you she was on the ragged edge with you before Christmas. She could see you were faltering about the extent of her denial of you (which is also an enforced denial of you to her) and she wanted you to see the error of that path by ramping it up to show you the extreme view. It worked to an extent.
Sue now has a lonely path to follow as she tries to rebuild her desire for you whilst at the same time getting less overall sex from the best source she may have ever had and whilst you are still saying you want a great deal of the denial she worked so hard to show you damaged that desire. You aren't making it easy for her and whilst it may work for a while I don't think it's sustainable in the medium to long term. In the end she's going to push you to either desire her as a woman or to stop having sex with you altogether because it will become too painful to see the rejection that your denial request shows to her.
The condom issue shouldn't matter at all. The difference in feeling is minor with modern condoms really but the huge issue for both of you is the phycological issue they represent. Sue is trying to create something in her head that enables her to enjoy you almost as much with them but she knows and you must know this is a construct and the reality is she needs the emotional closeness that bare sex represents and that feeling possessed by come gives her. So I say again that your continuing addiction to this aspect of denial is both selfish of you and will create long term damage. Your mental point score of x number of days since you last came inside of her only creates a further mental barrier. Far better if you still want to use them to do so only part of the time. Maybe for sex after she comes back from Paul, but for more special occasions which spark from Sue's attempts to rebridge your sexual gulf, you should do without increasingly. The first time will release both of you in this way. Sue never denied she doesn't like them for her best and most intimate sexual encounters. If she continues to reserve these only for Paul, she will never really get back to you.
As for Paul, he continues to remain a foil. If he wasn't better at sex, he would be of no use to Sue so he needs this performance edge over you. If it was all down to him not using condoms he wouldn't be good enough so Sue really shouldn't need them with you to continue his number one status. On the other side, Paul must be emotionally dead in places if he hasn't formed an emotional bond close to deep affection for Sue by now. It may be true that she doesn't love him but the longer it goes on, the closer the chance of you losing her to him gets. Not yet but don't discount it out of hand.
So, overall I'm glad that you have both sat down and hammered out a few changes. I just don't think either of you are close to where you need to be to recover the emotional and sexual closeness you once had. It's a work in progress as it ever was.
Steve,
Simply put all of your sexual energies need to be placed in Sue ... if using a condom helps you ramp up great, but realize it does take away something from her since she likes the "Splash" of manhood as part of her coming process. Interestingly enough as a man on the path in life, your position right now (due to the game) mimics the position of another person in another thread Daniel97 .... The difference is he is in college freshly started with the girl he first loved.
My advice to him was that he needs to bond as hard and for as much as he can as this kink and fun is the icing and ice cream to the cake of love making and sex is to dessert.
Peak has important points that you need to think about and mold into a way that fits your desires and push for your wife. So I would softly suggest that you seriously try to take Sue a couple times a month spontaneously in an alpha way. Grab her throw her against the kitchen and table and show her who is boss ... to jumping in the shower with her in the morning and saying well ... you are my dirty little wife ... lets finish the job and then you can clean up.
My point is ... she needs to be taken to feel the desire and passion. For better or worse with the kink you have reset the clock in your relationship ... you are 20 and she is 20 .... she has the ability to nail anyone she pleases since she is alpha female (or at least acts like it) and you either need to step and grab as much ownership as you can, or else go grab an internet device, take some pictures of her and pound out your frustration as a beta boy. If that is truly your desire (great also) ... just understand that you may need to look at opening up that spare bedroom for Paul (or yourself) and get ready to turn on your voyeur game for the rest of the relationship for however long that is.
cuckolding, poly/three-way relationships have a different swing to them then the traditional "hi I like you and want to be with you and only you" relationships .... there are dynamics where folks can all be friends and shared love and sex can happen and that is ok (if you don't have religious convictions) .... just realize she is a human being with desires and needs, as you are and as Paul does ...
The care and feeding of others always is life and time consuming .... just like that 90's song .... remember to wear sunscreen .....
Simply put all of your sexual energies need to be placed in Sue ... if using a condom helps you ramp up great, but realize it does take away something from her since she likes the "Splash" of manhood as part of her coming process. Interestingly enough as a man on the path in life, your position right now (due to the game) mimics the position of another person in another thread Daniel97 .... The difference is he is in college freshly started with the girl he first loved.
My advice to him was that he needs to bond as hard and for as much as he can as this kink and fun is the icing and ice cream to the cake of love making and sex is to dessert.
Peak has important points that you need to think about and mold into a way that fits your desires and push for your wife. So I would softly suggest that you seriously try to take Sue a couple times a month spontaneously in an alpha way. Grab her throw her against the kitchen and table and show her who is boss ... to jumping in the shower with her in the morning and saying well ... you are my dirty little wife ... lets finish the job and then you can clean up.
My point is ... she needs to be taken to feel the desire and passion. For better or worse with the kink you have reset the clock in your relationship ... you are 20 and she is 20 .... she has the ability to nail anyone she pleases since she is alpha female (or at least acts like it) and you either need to step and grab as much ownership as you can, or else go grab an internet device, take some pictures of her and pound out your frustration as a beta boy. If that is truly your desire (great also) ... just understand that you may need to look at opening up that spare bedroom for Paul (or yourself) and get ready to turn on your voyeur game for the rest of the relationship for however long that is.
cuckolding, poly/three-way relationships have a different swing to them then the traditional "hi I like you and want to be with you and only you" relationships .... there are dynamics where folks can all be friends and shared love and sex can happen and that is ok (if you don't have religious convictions) .... just realize she is a human being with desires and needs, as you are and as Paul does ...
The care and feeding of others always is life and time consuming .... just like that 90's song .... remember to wear sunscreen .....
Tgel - you have some good points and I think now, re-reading your post for a few times, that perhaps we are on this same direction ourselves. The issue that we seem to be facing is that it's again Sue who has to figure out how to change herself yet again. This time the challenge for her and both of us is to determine how we want things to be between us and how she may need or want to change how she feels.
Where things differ is that she wants to retain the alpha role in our relationship and I want her to. Once we get things reset in our dynamics - almost going back in time in many ways - trying to unwind some of the depths of the past 2 years - then yes, the spontaneous actions on my part towards her will surely return.
But she's made me very aware that this isn't easy for her and that she isn't sure how to "deal with me" sexually. When we talked last night while I masturbated with her I told her that I thought the way we were a few years back when she'd tease and share with me more was something we should maybe look to move towards. She agreed but said that she isn't sure how to do that from how she feels now as she admitted that back then, she felt a much stronger desire to share herself with me after being with her lover, even it were the next day, etc. She now says that she needs to undo what I asked her to do and what she admits she has "learned to enjoy a lot".
Regarding condoms, as crazy as it sounds, we both agree that it turns us on to use them together. She admits that she likes how it makes her feel about Paul but she also said that she likes how it feels with me to have it as something that differentiates between us - and she laid it on when she said that it turns her on that "your stuff still isn't going inside me" as I lay there stroking last night. I told her honestly that I liked how it made me feel to know what I was giving up and what I was giving to her and Paul. She blushed at that and said that she knew it wasn't easy for me to tell her that and that she appreciated what it meant for her.
She is seeing him tonight and we have talked about whether he may come by over the weekend but not spend the night.
Sorry for the abridged version here but I have like no free time right now where I can focus on a longer update.
Where things differ is that she wants to retain the alpha role in our relationship and I want her to. Once we get things reset in our dynamics - almost going back in time in many ways - trying to unwind some of the depths of the past 2 years - then yes, the spontaneous actions on my part towards her will surely return.
But she's made me very aware that this isn't easy for her and that she isn't sure how to "deal with me" sexually. When we talked last night while I masturbated with her I told her that I thought the way we were a few years back when she'd tease and share with me more was something we should maybe look to move towards. She agreed but said that she isn't sure how to do that from how she feels now as she admitted that back then, she felt a much stronger desire to share herself with me after being with her lover, even it were the next day, etc. She now says that she needs to undo what I asked her to do and what she admits she has "learned to enjoy a lot".
Regarding condoms, as crazy as it sounds, we both agree that it turns us on to use them together. She admits that she likes how it makes her feel about Paul but she also said that she likes how it feels with me to have it as something that differentiates between us - and she laid it on when she said that it turns her on that "your stuff still isn't going inside me" as I lay there stroking last night. I told her honestly that I liked how it made me feel to know what I was giving up and what I was giving to her and Paul. She blushed at that and said that she knew it wasn't easy for me to tell her that and that she appreciated what it meant for her.
She is seeing him tonight and we have talked about whether he may come by over the weekend but not spend the night.
Sorry for the abridged version here but I have like no free time right now where I can focus on a longer update.
It indeed can be very difficult to return to a prior state within a relationship/marriage once you have crossed a point. It is good that you both continue to have open honest conversations about how you feel about everything and what he of you would like from the relationship moving forward. Hopefully you both can reach a place that bring mutual enjoyment to both of you.
Steve,
Yet another restatement on this issue, again from both of your denial / full beta mode time. I am still trying to understand what it is you want, and through you what Sue wants. You aren't making it easy to understand nor I suspect for Sue to do so.
Let's just examine the issue from your statements of what Sue wants. This is logical because she now says that she wants to retain an alpha role. Whether than puts you in beta or neutral mode therefore doesn't matter too much, as Sue is in charge. Sue says it is hard for her to bridge back, the hidden subtext here is that she still wants to do so. So, whatever it is that you create to stand in her way, you should do your best to eliminate. What you want deep down doesn't matter anyway, as Sue is in charge and you want her to be so.
To briefly touch on the condom issue, again from Sue's perspective, she says she currently wants to maintain the differential between you and Paul. This is dangerous coming from her. We have heard from her again and again how bareback sex gives her the best orgasms. She says she wants to try to get back to you but her best way of doing so, she is still reserving for Paul and denying to you. As the alpha this is her decision but worrying if it continues. It makes it look like she doesn't want to bridge completely back, at least just yet. From your perspective I think you need to say you would be happy to sometimes not use condoms but that the decision as to when should be up to her. She can't then use the excuse that she is only doing what you want yet is still leaves you using them most of the time. From your view this is a win-win, but it leaves the real bridging timetable responsibility with Sue.
Sue 'allowing' you to use her after Paul has finished with her is an extension of the 'mercy fuck' theme. Sue has said she likes to 'savour' the feelings she has after her sexual sessions. She is also tired, emotionally unfocused on you, and unlikely to really get much out of it. Further, she using as your sexual trigger the angst that you generate by knowing she has just given herself to Paul. This means neither of you come to these sessions focused on intimacy between just the two of you. It simply won't work therefore as a bridge back to this state. Quite the reverse, it will reinforce the gap.
So, from the 'deal with you' perspective, maybe you need to refocus your sexual roles on those days you truly connect just as yourselves. Perhaps this would allow Sue to mentally release herself from the alpha role and let you take charge. She may use her alpha power to decide when but after that point she then lets you take over the sexual activity. I'm sure she could decide beforehand whether to use a condom or not, or perhaps find a way of 'throwing it away' during the activity if you got her excited enough. Essentially she is letting you back as an equal/alpha on her terms and for short terms in her control. It's a start and you both need a way to make these starts while keeping it natural.
I have tried to keep all this focused on Sue's needs and desires. What you want is immaterial if Sue remains the alpha, what you want is still very clouded by the very beta urges you say you are trying (but failing) to pull back from and by your fetish / addiction to not coming inside your wife. These issue are incongruous anyway. Either you are pulling away from beta in which case you fight them OR you still want beta in which case you suppress them to the alpha desire.
I suspect your head is still all over the place at the moment. You need to spend less time masturbating and more time refocusing. As Kennedy might have said. "Ask not what your wife can do for you, ask what you can do for your wife."
TTFN
Yet another restatement on this issue, again from both of your denial / full beta mode time. I am still trying to understand what it is you want, and through you what Sue wants. You aren't making it easy to understand nor I suspect for Sue to do so.
Let's just examine the issue from your statements of what Sue wants. This is logical because she now says that she wants to retain an alpha role. Whether than puts you in beta or neutral mode therefore doesn't matter too much, as Sue is in charge. Sue says it is hard for her to bridge back, the hidden subtext here is that she still wants to do so. So, whatever it is that you create to stand in her way, you should do your best to eliminate. What you want deep down doesn't matter anyway, as Sue is in charge and you want her to be so.
To briefly touch on the condom issue, again from Sue's perspective, she says she currently wants to maintain the differential between you and Paul. This is dangerous coming from her. We have heard from her again and again how bareback sex gives her the best orgasms. She says she wants to try to get back to you but her best way of doing so, she is still reserving for Paul and denying to you. As the alpha this is her decision but worrying if it continues. It makes it look like she doesn't want to bridge completely back, at least just yet. From your perspective I think you need to say you would be happy to sometimes not use condoms but that the decision as to when should be up to her. She can't then use the excuse that she is only doing what you want yet is still leaves you using them most of the time. From your view this is a win-win, but it leaves the real bridging timetable responsibility with Sue.
Sue 'allowing' you to use her after Paul has finished with her is an extension of the 'mercy fuck' theme. Sue has said she likes to 'savour' the feelings she has after her sexual sessions. She is also tired, emotionally unfocused on you, and unlikely to really get much out of it. Further, she using as your sexual trigger the angst that you generate by knowing she has just given herself to Paul. This means neither of you come to these sessions focused on intimacy between just the two of you. It simply won't work therefore as a bridge back to this state. Quite the reverse, it will reinforce the gap.
So, from the 'deal with you' perspective, maybe you need to refocus your sexual roles on those days you truly connect just as yourselves. Perhaps this would allow Sue to mentally release herself from the alpha role and let you take charge. She may use her alpha power to decide when but after that point she then lets you take over the sexual activity. I'm sure she could decide beforehand whether to use a condom or not, or perhaps find a way of 'throwing it away' during the activity if you got her excited enough. Essentially she is letting you back as an equal/alpha on her terms and for short terms in her control. It's a start and you both need a way to make these starts while keeping it natural.
I have tried to keep all this focused on Sue's needs and desires. What you want is immaterial if Sue remains the alpha, what you want is still very clouded by the very beta urges you say you are trying (but failing) to pull back from and by your fetish / addiction to not coming inside your wife. These issue are incongruous anyway. Either you are pulling away from beta in which case you fight them OR you still want beta in which case you suppress them to the alpha desire.
I suspect your head is still all over the place at the moment. You need to spend less time masturbating and more time refocusing. As Kennedy might have said. "Ask not what your wife can do for you, ask what you can do for your wife."
TTFN
Yes, things are fine. We're talking still and finding our way. She did see him last Thursday and then again this past Saturday but she made me wait till Sunday to be with her. Thing is, it wasn't a mercy-fuck at all. She was genuinely horny yesterday and there's no way to fake the orgasms I felt her have with me.
We talked about condoms too. She feels that "it's our thing" right now and that if it makes me feel good, and it makes her feel good, that it should be okay for us. I asked her about the possible lack of the "really Big O" with me and she smiled and said/agreed with "no honey, for now, that's not going to be for you" and we talked more about it. She honesty said that other than the moment of bliss when she feels that with Paul, that it's just not that big of a thing to worry about. She also asked me about "don't most women eventually find guys who are better than their husbands?" and she added "is this any different than that?". I did make me think and we talked about it more and I admitted that I didn't mind that he would have that with her and when she prodded, I admitted that it felt erotic when I'm with her to know that I'm giving that up. To which she cooed that she loved that I will "give that to her" and that in turn she wanted to be able to tease me and know that's what I want - to have her turn me on that way.
So - I think we're in a good place for now. She asked me if I really felt I needed to have her every week and then, before I answered, she added that she thought maybe every other week would maybe be better for us. She promised to tease me and "make you horny" for when the time comes. I told her that just hearing her talk this way was amazingly erotic.
We talked about condoms too. She feels that "it's our thing" right now and that if it makes me feel good, and it makes her feel good, that it should be okay for us. I asked her about the possible lack of the "really Big O" with me and she smiled and said/agreed with "no honey, for now, that's not going to be for you" and we talked more about it. She honesty said that other than the moment of bliss when she feels that with Paul, that it's just not that big of a thing to worry about. She also asked me about "don't most women eventually find guys who are better than their husbands?" and she added "is this any different than that?". I did make me think and we talked about it more and I admitted that I didn't mind that he would have that with her and when she prodded, I admitted that it felt erotic when I'm with her to know that I'm giving that up. To which she cooed that she loved that I will "give that to her" and that in turn she wanted to be able to tease me and know that's what I want - to have her turn me on that way.
So - I think we're in a good place for now. She asked me if I really felt I needed to have her every week and then, before I answered, she added that she thought maybe every other week would maybe be better for us. She promised to tease me and "make you horny" for when the time comes. I told her that just hearing her talk this way was amazingly erotic.
Ok I understand you are both comfortable where you are, but what happened to your comments of just a short time ago saying you wanted to be less beta, and Sue saying she couldn't see a long term desire for you unless you dropped most of the beta thing? Now she's backing off the brilliant orgasm by saying it's not that big a thing to worry about - that's an about face or another reason to continue to deny you equal access and maintain a lower standard for your encounters. I say again, it is not only reasonable to expect that Paul is a better lover, it would be madness to continue with him if he wasn't. It's his sole reason for being there. It's a bit like getting a plumber in who does a worse job than you could do, or watching a golf match with players worse than yourself. It makes no sense. The thing is, he should be so much better he doesn't need the edge created by differing standards. No, her denial says something else. Even if you accept it, you should at least know what.
In the meantime, I can see you believe you are in a good spot, just don't lull yourself into a false sense of security. I still can't see your position is sustainable in the medium to long term given Sue's desires for a partner.
In the meantime, I can see you believe you are in a good spot, just don't lull yourself into a false sense of security. I still can't see your position is sustainable in the medium to long term given Sue's desires for a partner.
@peakmb I guess the definition of what is alpha and what is beta based upon frequency of sex is in the "eye" of the beholder. As you know, I haven't been overly critical, but if I read into the statement. Sex is somewhere between pity and the bar is closing and I want to get laid tonight "settle". If she used the sky weekends as "revenge" sex against him, then this is at least on upward trend, which is good thing, but when asked for weekly (if PIV is his thing) .... um no ... which would show some sense of equality.
Where I would test it is in a different way (if I were Steve) .... I would state, if we are not having sex/love, then I am interested in you teasing me and denying me and making me horny. I would say great ... daily edging, so at least there was consistent physical contact and intimacy. A hand/blow, hump whatever it takes, or .... say great Paul gets the front, and I get to take you anally ....
I know he is probably fighting the alpha/beta fight in his mind, but you can't play 1/2 beta and 1/2 alpha it is a light switch. You are either on or off ... there is no middle/dim switch ... I will repeat what I said from before .... if you are an alpha, you will take it from her, this isn't a negotiation, if you are a beta ... sit back and cruise and enjoy what she deems acceptable to you ....
Where I would test it is in a different way (if I were Steve) .... I would state, if we are not having sex/love, then I am interested in you teasing me and denying me and making me horny. I would say great ... daily edging, so at least there was consistent physical contact and intimacy. A hand/blow, hump whatever it takes, or .... say great Paul gets the front, and I get to take you anally ....
I know he is probably fighting the alpha/beta fight in his mind, but you can't play 1/2 beta and 1/2 alpha it is a light switch. You are either on or off ... there is no middle/dim switch ... I will repeat what I said from before .... if you are an alpha, you will take it from her, this isn't a negotiation, if you are a beta ... sit back and cruise and enjoy what she deems acceptable to you ....
@peakmb It's a bit like the man who has a mistress because his wife isn't that great at sex.
He gets hot sex with his mistress, but he will still have sex with his wife.
I also note that what Sue is offering has changed, a few weeks back it was going to be most times after she'd been with Steve, now it's down to only every other week.
I agree with a number of previous posters that Sue does want her husband back as her Alpha male, however it is going to take time to "re-condition" him back into being an Alpha. I had thought from STB's post a couple of weeks back that she was willing to spend the time to help recondition him, now I'm not so sure that either of them want to do this.
He gets hot sex with his mistress, but he will still have sex with his wife.
I also note that what Sue is offering has changed, a few weeks back it was going to be most times after she'd been with Steve, now it's down to only every other week.
I agree with a number of previous posters that Sue does want her husband back as her Alpha male, however it is going to take time to "re-condition" him back into being an Alpha. I had thought from STB's post a couple of weeks back that she was willing to spend the time to help recondition him, now I'm not so sure that either of them want to do this.
Sue and Steve talk and talk and talk. A solution to reconnect seemed to be close. Than Sue again changes the rules in the middle of the game. No surprise at all, Steve accepts again. They both are driving a zigzag track. A crash is predictable in the near future.
Good point there Dutch, but Sue is at least consistent. If Steve's narrative is correct, Sue has broken every plan and promise she has ever made to him in the last two years. Sometimes almost before the agreed change has started, sometimes after one of her supervised masturbation mind changing sessions. Always reverting to what she really wants, which is seems is not 'full' sex with Steve, and not much 'lite' sex either.
